Just read an article on it.
A doctor was able to use stem cells to make a vagina !!!
and this happened like 5 years ago so I'm guessing the technology should have gotten more refined by now.
http://www.health.am/gyneco/more/stem-cells-to-construct-vagina/ (http://www.health.am/gyneco/more/stem-cells-to-construct-vagina/)
What ever biotech company brings this to the mainstream will be very rich.
what are your thoughts on it ?
It sounds like I can't afford it.
I would email the DR to see what has transpired since then.
oh here is a video a sister made about them .. kinda funny The Vagina Song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE18CGmtXqM&feature=player_embedded#)
I have wondered why more of us don't get involved with the medical field and start trying to figure this sort of thing out
most biotech things are not hard to do at home if you know what you are doing,
and I bet if I managed to grow a new body part at home that I could find a doctor that would install it for me.
If you want to figure it out spacecase, be my guest.
I remember reading that a while ago. It's pretty exciting to think what might be available in the next 5-10 years or so. But I don't really know if this would be possible with someone whose chromosomes are XY?
There are several variations of the theme so to speak, they are not really using stem cells, but rather they use cell culture form any mucosa. This technology has been successfully exploited to construct a neovaginas for women with vaginal aegenesis.
I have email two different authors asking them if they had or have consider using this technology for SRS but have received no response
Speaking from a biological stand point.. It's probably already possible.
Implanting them and wiring them to the rest of the body will be the real challenge.
Quote from: Hannah on May 06, 2012, 05:55:50 PM
I remember reading that a while ago. It's pretty exciting to think what might be available in the next 5-10 years or so. But I don't really know if this would be possible with someone whose chromosomes are XY?
It would be, the genetic blueprints are still there on the X chromosome.
I don't really have any thoughts on it, to be honest. At least not at the moment. My current interest in stem cell research is more on repairing spinal cord injuries, for personal reasons. But who knows, if that area is explored, maybe they can figure out how to attach a severed spinal cord and, in turn, consider brain transplants, one day allowing for whole new bodies.
Not likely, I suppose, but still. One can hope.
I'll take one! No wait, may as well gimme two!
I hope they do better with it than I can with houseplants.
Quote from: Sephirah on May 06, 2012, 10:42:31 PM
I don't really have any thoughts on it, to be honest. At least not at the moment. My current interest in stem cell research is more on repairing spinal cord injuries, for personal reasons. But who knows, if that area is explored, maybe they can figure out how to attach a severed spinal cord and, in turn, consider brain transplants, one day allowing for whole new bodies.
Not likely, I suppose, but still. One can hope.
I'd hope to see major advances in cybernetic. Maybe entire bodies one day.
Quote from: Erin H on May 06, 2012, 02:26:42 PM
Just read an article on it.
A doctor was able to use stem cells to make a vagina !!!
and this happened like 5 years ago so I'm guessing the technology should have gotten more refined by now.
http://www.health.am/gyneco/more/stem-cells-to-construct-vagina/ (http://www.health.am/gyneco/more/stem-cells-to-construct-vagina/)
What ever biotech company brings this to the mainstream will be very rich.
what are your thoughts on it ?
I wasn't aware of this specific effort, but I've hypothesized something of the sort for a long time. The way I see it, you'd have to have some XX cells to act as a foundation stratum on which to culture the stem cells. Starting with an XY cell, removing the Y from the cell is not a big deal, we do things like that as a matter of routine these days, but where do you get the extra X to replace it? You can't just use the X from another XY cell because XX cells don't like having identical X chromosomes, as I understand it. One X normally comes genetically from the mother and one from the father, with the differences being just as important as the similarities. When both Xs are exact twins, you see many of the complications common with inbreeding. I suppose a female relative might be a viable source for the second X. (Reaching waaaay back in my memory for some of this stuff and I am not a geneticist by trade, but I think I'm remembering correctly.)
Once you have an XX substrate and a sufficient sample of stem cells, growing a female reproductive tract should be fairly straightforward. It could theoretically even be genetically fertile.
Now you just have to figure out how to implant it into a body that did not grow to support it, which involves wiring up a lot of nerves in ways nature did not prepare for. Since it is no longer a perfect genetic match, there is still a chance of rejection, although the chance may still be less than for a similar transplant from a donor.
Finally, if the new plumbing did end up being genetically fertile, the transwoman would probably still face complications during pregnancy and delivery, including having to give birth via C-Section because of the restriction of the narrower male pelvic structure.
Still, there was a time when the thought of replacing a person's failing heart was considered laughably absurd and now we regard it as a risky but routine procedure, so who knows what might happen with the science in the next 50-100 years.
Heck, I'd be thrilled if they could just make me a pair of non-fertile ovaries to replace HRT.
I'm wondering if and how this might work out for an intersexed person with an XXY chromosome makeup
Quote from: Dana_H on May 07, 2012, 12:01:55 AM
I wasn't aware of this specific effort, but I've hypothesized something of the sort for a long time. The way I see it, you'd have to have some XX cells to act as a foundation stratum on which to culture the stem cells. Starting with an XY cell, removing the Y from the cell is not a big deal, we do things like that as a matter of routine these days, but where do you get the extra X to replace it? You can't just use the X from another XY cell because XX cells don't like having identical X chromosomes, as I understand it. One X normally comes genetically from the mother and one from the father, with the differences being just as important as the similarities. When both Xs are exact twins, you see many of the complications common with inbreeding. I suppose a female relative might be a viable source for the second X. (Reaching waaaay back in my memory for some of this stuff and I am not a geneticist by trade, but I think I'm remembering correctly.)
Once you have an XX substrate and a sufficient sample of stem cells, growing a female reproductive tract should be fairly straightforward. It could theoretically even be genetically fertile.
Now you just have to figure out how to implant it into a body that did not grow to support it, which involves wiring up a lot of nerves in ways nature did not prepare for. Since it is no longer a perfect genetic match, there is still a chance of rejection, although the chance may still be less than for a similar transplant from a donor.
Finally, if the new plumbing did end up being genetically fertile, the transwoman would probably still face complications during pregnancy and delivery, including having to give birth via C-Section because of the restriction of the narrower male pelvic structure.
Still, there was a time when the thought of replacing a person's failing heart was considered laughably absurd and now we regard it as a risky but routine procedure, so who knows what might happen with the science in the next 50-100 years.
Heck, I'd be thrilled if they could just make me a pair of non-fertile ovaries to replace HRT.
Women can and have been born with only one X chromosome, or with XY. Turner Syndrome, CAIS, etc.
The genetic info should already be there.
Quote from: Sephirah on May 06, 2012, 10:42:31 PM
I don't really have any thoughts on it, to be honest. At least not at the moment. My current interest in stem cell research is more on repairing spinal cord injuries, for personal reasons. But who knows, if that area is explored, maybe they can figure out how to attach a severed spinal cord and, in turn, consider brain transplants, one day allowing for whole new bodies.
Not likely, I suppose, but still. One can hope.
The problem with spinal cord neurons is not that they do not regenerate but that they are prevented from reinervation by scarring. A lot of research is currently focusing on preventing scarring.
Quote from: Amazon D on May 06, 2012, 03:39:36 PM
I would email the DR to see what has transpired since then.
oh here is a video a sister made about them .. kinda funny
Oh that was so F**king funny!! .... Thanks Dani.. I really needed that pick me up !!!
Cheers,
Love
Jen
OXOXOXOXO
Hi, Girls,
You better start polishing your Mandarin; the 21st Century best medicine is already here, in China. There is not reason to belive that the external vagina (labia majora and minora, clitoris, and meatus, can be constructed with current SRS techniques; then, after healing, the procedure below -or modifications theriin- could be implented to generate a fully functional vagina. Where are the pionering inovating American surgeons ?
Zhongguo Xiu Fu Chong Jian Wai Ke Za Zhi. 2009 Mar;23(3):309-12.
[Clinical application of autologous buccal micro-mucosa graft in vaginal reconstruction].
Zhao M, Li Q, Li P, Zhou C, Duan C, Huang X, Chen B, Liu X, Li S.
Second Department of Plastic Surgery Hospital, Peking Union Medical College, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, Beijing, 100144, PR China.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE To investigate the effect of vaginal reconstruction with autologous buccal micro-mucosa graft.
METHODS:
From March 2007 and April 2008, 10 patients with absence of vagina were treated, aged 18-31 years (mean 26 years). Nine of them were congenital absence of vagina, and the remaining one was vaginal stenosis after vaginal reconstruction. They all exhibited normal secondary sexual characteristics, normal hormonal levels and 46, XX karyotype. Their abdominal ultrasonography revealed the normal ovaries and tubes but absence of the uterus or small rudimentary horns. However the one with vaginal stenosis had normal uterus. The buccal mucosa graft was minced into 0.5 mm in size and was transplanted to the cavity which was dissected between the bladder and the rectum.
RESULTS:
The operation was performed successfully in all cases. The operative time was about 1-2 hours and operative blood loss was 80-100 mL. Postoperative complication occurred in only one case for vaginal bleeding. The patient recovered and the wound healed well after immediate management. The others healed primarily without any complications. All cases were followed up for 4-16 months. The depth of neovagina which was formed was 6-10 cm and the width was about two fingers. The lining was pink-colored and smooth, and was confirmed as nonkeratinizing squamous stratified mucosa by histopathological examination. The donor sites healed uneventfully with no change in mouth opening. The perineal area was not disturbed. Four patients were married and satisfied with their sexual life without pain and bleeding.
CONCLUSION:
Vaginal reconstruction with autologous buccal micro-mucosa graft is an easy, minimally invasive and useful method.
The major thing I think could be a problem is the use of mucosal cells (vaginal cells used by dr. marchese) to create induced pluripotent stem cells (IPLs) which is what that article suggests happened. This is problematic as most current methods are quite inefective and the success rate of cell conversion is usually around 0.5 - 2% last I read. This creates a huge cost for very little return. Also as far as the XY chromosome issue is concerned there are potentially complications even if the Y is removed, X linked silencing should reduce them but you understand none of these procedures are trivial.
I would be interested to see if they have published this work in peer reviewed journals because I haven't been able to find it anywhere. I haven't read the Zhongguo et al. paper that Peky posted the abstract of yet so I can't comment there.
I don't want to be negative about it but there are many complicating factors that have not been explored in great enough detail to proclaim the future is here from this one report. The reason we don't hear much about research like this is becuase it is much harder to get funding for. diseases like cancers and heart disease are much more urgent for researchers and medical professionals.
Your friendly neighbourhood party pooper,
Jessie xoxo
My first thought was, "where would one keep this artificially-grown vagina until it--and you--are ready for the implantation?"
Would we keep it in a shoebox, or does it need sunlight to grow and thrive? Ooh! Let's plant some lilies around it...
Haha, no. Such a thing would need to stay in the lab, and would probably require periodical care by a specialist. When it's ready, they'd call and tell you when to come for the operation.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on May 08, 2012, 08:38:36 PM
Would we keep it in a shoebox, or does it need sunlight to grow and thrive? Ooh! Let's plant some lilies around it...
You store it in the lab-ia, of course!
Haha, oh +1 for lab-ia :)
It wouldn't be grown as a vagina, just as a culture of cells in a lab. Then the cells would be used to construct the vagina in situ during surgery. At least that's my understanding of the process.
It would be so much cooler if they grew it on a flower though, like a stem just sitting there and then it blooms into a vagina haha :)
Oh to have a bloomin' vagina
*Sighs a wishful sigh*
http://www.change.org/petitions/continue-testing-of-buccal-cell-srs-for-surgery (http://www.change.org/petitions/continue-testing-of-buccal-cell-srs-for-surgery)
They stopped researching it for transwomen. because they are ->-bleeped-<-s.
When I saw this subject title, it brought to mind the expression "grow some balls" which I've long thought was pretty sexist. Of course the implication is that men are braver then women which I just don't buy. I kinda like the idea of switching it on someone just to throw them for a loop.
Hm, I think it sort of sounds true, though. Not regarding courage per se, but rather risky tendencies. It's a well-known fact that testosterone tends to promote aggressivity and risk-taking behaviours. Since the "balls" are the things producing testosterone, to "grow some balls" would be "take some risks", or "be more daring", which whilst unpleasing to the ear is probably not sexist, objectively speaking.
Quote from: A on May 09, 2012, 04:59:27 PMIt's a well-known fact that testosterone tends to promote aggressivity and risk-taking behaviours.
I don't believe it and lots of people don't believe it. People are subjected to massive indoctrination for gender-expected behaviors from an extremely early age. It's so pervasive that it's hard to tell when we're doing it ourselves and it's really hard to look at it objectively. There's a great book on the subject exploring how science on the subject is incredibly biased and how the experiments themselves were seriously flawed in terms of how behavior was attributed to nature or nurture.
Hm, I believe that most socially induced gender-specific behaviours have a natural, physical basis. Of course, many, if not all, of them are exponentially reinforced by culture, some of them probably having such a little difference that they would often overlap without the effects of culture, but becoming very distinct in reality... But hormones, and perhaps genetics, play an undeniable role, I'd say.
Also, even though putting any trace of placebo effect aside is impossible, I'm pretty sure that my aggressive behaviours were greatly reduced with starting HRT. There are surely many similar (and reverse for FTMs) experiences in other trans people.
But anyway, I'm almost sure that testosterone is associated with risk taking.
...But aren't we -really- derailing the thread?
Quote from: A on May 09, 2012, 07:22:43 PM
...But aren't we -really- derailing the thread?
I already thought of that. If were inclined to continue the conversation, I'd start a new thread.
Coincidentally, there was some discussion of it in this thread (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,119686.msg929260.html#msg929260), but that thread has now been locked.
I'm not a fan of debates, so no thanks. Let's just let the thread go back to the way of the righteous genital cultivating.
Quote from: dalebert on May 09, 2012, 07:33:24 PM
I already thought of that. If were inclined to continue the conversation, I'd start a new thread.
Coincidentally, there was some discussion of it in this thread (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,119686.msg929260.html#msg929260), but that thread has now been locked.
It is a pity that thread got can, but the room was ricking with testosterone, :)
I think a lot of problem and disagreements are all semantics; it would be nice if Susan could administer a test before people are allowed to post; I think it is essential we understand the operational definitions and differences between gender identity, gender roles, sexual orientation, sexual ideation, gender identity spectrum, etc. I know some of these and other terms are defined somewhere in Susan's.
As for the topic at hand, and based in the state of the art in biotechnology, I would not be surprised if some of the parts needed to make a fully functional vagina would be supplied by biopharma by tissue engineering; say within 5 to 7 years.
I believe they could. And maybe do already have the ability to make the tissue. As they can now literally print brand new kidneys off of industrial printers, with specialized serums.
Put it in us will be harder.. I believe that will take another area of science.. Which would have to include the ability to implant nerves into the tissue and get the body to accept them.
I wonder if it would be possible to "fix" an older SRS vagina with newer techniques.
Quote from: A on May 10, 2012, 06:48:06 PM
I wonder if it would be possible to "fix" an older SRS vagina with newer techniques.
Yes
It shouldn't be too difficult. Simply surgically add the new mucosal cells to the existing vagina. More or less what the surgeries on natal women were doing.