Ok, for people who didn't understand the subject line, I have just, in the last few months, figured out I was an androgyne. I have read like crazy, subscribed to several channels on youtube, talked to one close friend, and bought a binder. I have started using an androgynous name and placed it next to my given name, and asked a few people to call me that, without explaining. I feel pretty confused without being really upset exactly.
I'm thinking about getting my haircut. :-)
I wondered what other people who identify as androgynes have done and how they felt about it.
I hope that's clearer than I think this is. :-)
--Jay Jay
I changed my name on here. I also plan on going the route of transitioning because I would feel better appearing as an androgynous male instead of an androgynous female. That's about all I can do because my hair is permed right now so I can't get the haircut I want, plus I'm going to teach this fall and I have to appear decent so it means playing the girl card for awhile.
Whew! Glad someone understood this. Seems unbelievably awkward, but I guess I am in that awkward sort of state. Thanks for your answer. :-)
--Jay Jay
Hey there Jay Jay.
Just my personal opinion, but I think FtA's have more options than MtA's.
However, the recently posted pictures of VannaSiamese (MtFtA) have put that into a new light.
I think you should go with the presentation you feel most comfortable with.
Androgynes are, by nature it seems, somewhat more genderfluid than the rest of the world.
I've always been a very gender neutral person. I've not always had a word for it, or known it was possible to be neither male nor female, but it's always been me, if you know what I mean...
When I was finally able to put a word to it, my course of action was very much the same as yours, though versus subbing to youtube channels, I've been getting mor einvolved in the tumblr community. I've started using this name more frequently, and I've been trying to explain to people that I do not, in fact, indentify as a trans man... as a lot of people were under such an impression. All in all, I've stayed very mcuh the same in means of apperance, actually.
Finally being able to give my gender a name brought a great sense of relief to me, which was nice. ^^
Great question, JayJay. You add so much to this group.
* First I felt amazing relief that there is a name and a a group for what I am.
* I spent a lot of time webbing to find what resources there are. A few forums, a few definitions page, nothing holding a candle to Susan's.
* I looked for local resources, like a support group. Nil. Nada. Zilch. I asked the director of the local PFLAG (the closest we have to an LGBTQ support group.) Non-Binary? Blank face. Androgyne? Blank face. Bigender? Genderqueer? Mixed-gender? I think he finally got it, but it was a foreign concept with him.
* Told my wife. Still weathering that storm.
* Got depressed. Not finished with this part yet.
* Started to make a plan. To think what it means for me to come "out". I'm going to post the plan here when it's better formed. Not sure it will do any good, or whether anyone will treat me any different if they know I'm mixed-gender than if they just thought I was a strangish guy, but at least I'll be more honest.
Oh nice of you to say this agfrommd! I actually found that I also feel a bit of relief (aside from confusion). Lots of things "click" and make sense, that did not make sense before. (See previous threads on childhood experience).
I have yet to email (seems the only way to contact them) the local trans support group to see if they know anything about this. A bit afraid I think. The local group has a support group that says this: "Rainbow Friends is an adult co-ed support group open to all transgender, transsexual, or gender nonconforming people & their SOFFAs." This sounds related... Maybe promising?? OTOH, this is not known as a really progressive city, but at least it's a city.
I think you are right re: FtAs Jamie. I could go way more to the masculine side without hardly a strange look.
I teach too, Lynn Gabriel. But there is another teacher that I work with, actually a friend of mine. Goes around very masculine looking. She is definitely gender-nonconforming, even if she doesn't identify that way. Union rules prevent them from saying much about our appearance. But I notice (now, would never have noticed before) that she puts on a sort of girly blouse on top of jeans on school days.
--Jay Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on May 09, 2012, 11:26:49 PM
I have yet to email (seems the only way to contact them) the local trans support group to see if they know anything about this. A bit afraid I think. The local group has a support group that says this: "Rainbow Friends is an adult co-ed support group open to all transgender, transsexual, or gender nonconforming people & their SOFFAs." This sounds related... Maybe promising?? OTOH, this is not known as a really progressive city, but at least it's a city.
I did email one group and got no response (part of the reason why I'm frustrated and depressed). They meet once a month. I don't really want to make the drive into a part of the city I don't know well at 8PM at night for a group that I can't verify where or whether it meets. On the other hand, maybe I'll strike gold. They meet this Saturday. I'm still undecided. Also I get a sense that the transitioning transsexuals and the non-binaries don't really understand one another well, but that's probably a stereotype. I let you know how it goes or whether I chicken out.
This...
Quote from: agfrommd on May 09, 2012, 05:43:54 AM
* First I felt amazing relief that there is a name and a a group for what I am.
* I spent a lot of time webbing to find what resources there are. A few forums, a few definitions page, nothing holding a candle to Susan's.
* I looked for local resources, like a support group. Nil. Nada. Zilch. I asked the director of the local PFLAG (the closest we have to an LGBTQ support group.) Non-Binary? Blank face. Androgyne? Blank face. Bigender? Genderqueer? Mixed-gender? I think he finally got it, but it was a foreign concept with him.
* Got depressed. Not finished with this part yet.
* Started to make a plan. To think what it means for me to come "out". I'm going to post the plan here when it's better formed. Not sure it will do any good, or whether anyone will treat me any different if they know I'm mixed-gender than if they just thought I was a strangish guy, but at least I'll be more honest.
Your question of binary trans* vs Non-binary trans* is valid. Both ways of thinking is foreign to the other, although there are many who come close to understanding, in my opinion (also others who don't believe the others exist). Both are difficult, debatable concepts that are hard to quantify.
Ativan
Quote from: agfrommd on May 10, 2012, 06:34:00 AM
I did email one group and got no response (part of the reason why I'm frustrated and depressed). They meet once a month. I don't really want to make the drive into a part of the city I don't know well at 8PM at night for a group that I can't verify where or whether it meets. On the other hand, maybe I'll strike gold. They meet this Saturday. I'm still undecided. Also I get a sense that the transitioning transsexuals and the non-binaries don't really understand one another well, but that's probably a stereotype. I let you know how it goes or whether I chicken out.
Well, haven't gone as far as you in *trying* to email. So far, I've chickened out. I know what you mean re: parts of the city. Some of these can provide cheap rental space, but aren't necessarily ones I want to drive to. Also not sure how they *actually* deal with non-binaries. Or if they would try to pressure someone to take a more binary view.
I still haven't contacted the office (or tried to) either.
--Jay Jay
I got an email back from the trans resource center saying basically that they support everybody. Now exactly what and to what extent...
--Jay Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on May 14, 2012, 12:52:18 AM
I got an email back from the trans resource center saying basically that they support everybody. Now exactly what and to what extent...
--Jay Jay
Good job Jay Jay!
From my own experience, I'd say it's worth a visit if you can connect with other people. It's so easy to rely on online communications, but the people here don't really know you. We only see the words you type. In-person communication goes much further.
Of course given things you've said about your background I can see how in-person contact would be daunting. That's one of those lines I'm always finding myself walking. Is it better to pamper myself by making my world as stress-free as possible or to try to push myself out of my own comfort zone?
I'm interested to know what happens.
Quote from: agfrommd on May 14, 2012, 07:01:51 AM
Good job Jay Jay!
Of course given things you've said about your background I can see how in-person contact would be daunting. That's one of those lines I'm always finding myself walking. Is it better to pamper myself by making my world as stress-free as possible or to try to push myself out of my own comfort zone?
I'm interested to know what happens.
To keep life as stress free as possible is generally best, so instead of stepping out of your comfort zone, make the zone bigger.
Stop looking at it as a boundary or line to cross, but as a new and good place to go (the other side of the imaginary edge).
You'll find a lot of common interests to discuss at group meetings.
People are as interested in you, as you are interested in them.
Avoid the discussions that may turn into disagreements, as you would with anyone else.
There is a world of Trans* people out there that have many things in common and are looking forward to you as you are to them.
They are looking for answers, just like you are.
They are looking for others too, despite what differences there may be.
You just may find the diversities in them, that are also in you.
I have encountered both good and bad experiences in group settings.
They are learning experiences that you may not find here.
To be able to see them, adds immensely to the conversation.
And your confidence in yourself. (A bigger comfort zone.)
Ativan
Quote from: casey on May 10, 2012, 01:58:23 PM
When I came out as androgyne, it really just gave me permission to relax. I was already set to transition FTM, and I still plan to do that, but accepting myself as androgyne has allowed me to feel a lot more whole, and just...good. :)
This.
I also felt a huge amount of relief. Before that, I had always felt I'd been living a lie, as either female or FTM. I wasn't female, I knew that from very young but...I wasn't quite male. Not male enough to be FTM anyway. But now I feel comfortable with who I am, I don't have to hide my boyish self as I was forced to for a lot of my childhood. It sounds incredibly cliched but I do feel a real sense of peace with myself which I have never felt before. I'm still going to transition, but now feel I don't have to go all the way.
Physically, I got my hair cut shorter (not short enough- but it used to be so long I could sit on it). I'm getting it cut properly in a few weeks which will be even better. I use the name Ash everywhere on the internet and choose the gender option Other when I can. I bought a binder and am increasing the amounts of time I wear it a week. Although my clothes were mostly androgynous anyway, I am buying more unisex clothes and hats (cause hats make me look androgynous).
Quote from: agfrommd on May 14, 2012, 07:01:51 AM
Good job Jay Jay!
From my own experience, I'd say it's worth a visit if you can connect with other people. It's so easy to rely on online communications, but the people here don't really know you. We only see the words you type. In-person communication goes much further.
Of course given things you've said about your background I can see how in-person contact would be daunting. That's one of those lines I'm always finding myself walking. Is it better to pamper myself by making my world as stress-free as possible or to try to push myself out of my own comfort zone?
I'm interested to know what happens.
Thanks agfrommd (now there's a name with a possible history?!)
I had no idea that I'd said so much, yikes. Or that people remember that sort of thing.
Anyway, I emailed back to the resource center. For now, I am just wanting to find out what they offer and if they will talk to me a couple times one on one. They *have* a group. Sounds *very* generic (rainbow friends-- transgender, transexual, gender nonconforming (that's me), family, etc.) so who knows. (They have mtf and ftm, but I don't think the later applies.) I had a binder to donate (too bad nothing to wear!) so it got me to contact them. I don't know re: groups but it is almost summer break and it would be a good time to do this. I hate going out on weekday evenings usually.
--Jay Jay
I've always knew that I was in some way androgyne, but I found out about genderqueer very recently. So I haven't done much about it yet ;)
For now, I just feel relief and more free to express myself in little things. For instance, I don't mind my real female name, but when I'm online I've always chosen unisex or male nicknames and I've always felt somehow guilty and weird about it. Now I get it and I kinda like it.
I'm also planning to lose weight (a lot), because, besides being good for my health, there's also the fact that now my breasts are gianormous. I can even look at myself in the mirror.
Figuring out you're an androgynous being is one of the most awesome thing of all time.
Before I even knew what ''androgyny'' meant, I was really questioning my case. I knew I was a boy, there's no doubt about this, but I also wondered what it would be like to be female (Would it be better for me?). I started questioning my gender really hard, considered hormones and all, and it would've been a risk knowing that I wasn't sure. I figured out that when I'm with my friends, I'd rather have my ''boy'' persona. Talking like ''Wassup duuuuuudeeee'' and swearing a lot. But when I am with my lover, I like my ''girl'' persona better. Being more affectionate and talking softly, that sorts of things.
Then, I found out that I didn't really have any gender issue. There are lots of people who are just like me and at this point I (almost) stopped asking question.
The issues with being androgynous are minimal for me. I don't really mind being called either a ''he'' or a ''she'', if it would be up to me it would be a gender neutral term but it doesn't really matter in the end. There are always these funny situation where you go somewhere in public and people greet you in this fashion: ''Hello Miss.. mister.. miss..ter..miss....?'' (That happened a bunch of time, exactly like that).
I find it amusing to play with people's mind like this, it's a little plus for me.
Other than that, I have way more clothing options. I rarely ever buy clothes so sometimes friends come over and give me a bag of clothes they don't wear anymore. I can wear pretty much anything without feeling like it's inappropriate, I have lots of option and I'll never go outside naked again. For some reasons, girl jeans fits me well but I also like to wear men t-shirts better and I don't have to feel bad about it, because I'm androgynous anyway.
Being androgynous for me, is the best of both worlds.
Don't know if I count since I'm fluid, but this is what I did.
1. Tried to research what gender actually is.
2. Got confused. All I could find was the social stuff and, I must admit, I was shocked.
3. Denial and self hatred.
4. Learned that gender is more than the social crap. At least, that's what I cling to because I don't want to be stupid.
5. Trying to deal with confusion because my gender keeps changing.
The term Androgyne is used as a title for this section, but it is really about Non-binary Trans*.
Edge,
Have you talked to a therapist about this? A good one who understands Trans* People?
Acceptance goes a long way towards understanding and vice-versa.
I tend to be in flux most of the time, although there are times that it settles for a day or two.
Ativan
Yeah I did get in touch with a gender therapist and talked with him a few times. He was more harmful than helpful.
Edge!
I ran my therapist into the ground, to much of a wimp. Cry baby. So I went shopping for a new one.
I just had a 30 minute interview yesterday with a new therapist. She's answered my questions.
Are you familiar with non-binaries? Yes. How much? (long answer that was good enough for me)
Can you deal with a bipolar narcissist with antisocial personality and NOS, NOS, NOS? Yes.
Will you tell me to shut up when I need to? (I talk and babble, narcissistically) Yes.
Can you handle someone who has little if any remorse? Yes.
Can you see me weekly? Yes.
Do you want to make an appointment for me next week? Yes.
I'm really not usually this nice, in fact I'm known to be just the opposite with therapists. We'll work on it.
The 23rd? Yep.
Try them out, take'm for a test drive. You'll find one. And then, another if you need to. Want to.
You are paying them to help you. Get your dollars worth. Get your hours worth. If not, if they just seem off, dump them.
Yes, they can be hard to find, but if I can find a good one, they are well worth the trouble to find them.
A woman therapist may work a lot better for you, I get along better with them myself. But, that's just me.
Don't give up. Be the one who decides who is right for you. And if you don't like what they tell you, tell them.
You're paying them. Get your money and times worth. Sounds like you need a good one. Test drive, on their dime.
Even if it's just a phone interview at first.
Ativan
Quote from: Ativan on May 17, 2012, 10:49:35 PM
Try them out, take'm for a test drive.
You are paying them to help you. Get your dollars worth. Get your hours worth. If not, if they just seem off, dump them.
Awesome advice. I've dealt with more than a dozen mental health professionals in my life. I once made an inventory. A third of them really helped me. A third of them just took my money, and a third of them did damage (or at least left me more damaged than when I started).
Hold out for the ones who can help.
Any suggestions on where I can find a therapist familiar with gender that will talk on skype or something and that someone who is completely broke can afford? There are no therapists familiar with gender in my city and I don't drive. (Trust me, I've looked.)
Quote from: Edge on May 18, 2012, 06:52:41 AM
Any suggestions on where I can find a therapist familiar with gender that will talk on skype or something and that someone who is completely broke can afford? There are no therapists familiar with gender in my city and I don't drive. (Trust me, I've looked.)
Edge, I know this isn't what you're asking for, but I'll offer a suggestion. Take it how you will, since I only know you through your posts, but here goes:
Instead of looking for a therapist with gender knowledge, I'd suggest concentrating on someone who:
* Is empathetic and non-judgmental
* Who knows when to listen and when to offer insight
* Who is willing to call out their clients whey they're fooling themselves.
* You you personally feel comfortable talking to
* Is reliable and seems to care about you.
My suggestion is to find someone like this and then educate them about gender issues. A therapist with strong empathy and intelligence will be able to pick up the gender knowledge.
After all, a therapist isn't there to give you answers, but to help you discover the answers for yourself.
Nearly every place has community mental health centers that offer help on a sliding scale. Some go as low as only a few dollars a session.
I hope this suggestion helps.
Quote from: agfrommd on May 18, 2012, 09:29:48 AM
Edge, I know this isn't what you're asking for, but I'll offer a suggestion. Take it how you will, since I only know you through your posts, but here goes:
Instead of looking for a therapist with gender knowledge, I'd suggest concentrating on someone who:
* Is empathetic and non-judgmental
* Who knows when to listen and when to offer insight
* Who is willing to call out their clients whey they're fooling themselves.
* You you personally feel comfortable talking to
* Is reliable and seems to care about you.
My suggestion is to find someone like this and then educate them about gender issues. A therapist with strong empathy and intelligence will be able to pick up the gender knowledge.
After all, a therapist isn't there to give you answers, but to help you discover the answers for yourself.
Nearly every place has community mental health centers that offer help on a sliding scale. Some go as low as only a few dollars a session.
I hope this suggestion helps.
Excellent!
I'm sorry I can't help with Skype, I've never had a reason to use it (My age is showing).
Anyone with experience using Skype? I'd like to know, also.
Ativan
Eh personally, I don't trust a guide who doesn't know where they're going. I know from experience that they can be very empathetic and intelligent, but if they don't know the subject matter, we end up spending the entire time with me trying to explain it to them instead of trying to solve the problem.
Edge, if you're looking for that kind of stuff I am ready to do my best to help you (If you want me to).
Since I feel like we've had some of the same problems do deal with in the past (And maybe still do) I'm sure that we could learn from each other.
I'm not a therapist or anything, but I'm pretty certain that I won't damage you.
If you want me to I'll just give you my skype ID and we could start whenever you feel like it, I have a loooooooooots of free time anyway. (Until I get Diablo3)
Quote from: Ativan on May 17, 2012, 10:49:35 PM
Edge!
I just had a 30 minute interview yesterday with a new therapist. She's answered my questions.
Are you familiar with non-binaries? Yes. How much? (long answer that was good enough for me)
Can you deal with a bipolar narcissist with antisocial personality and NOS, NOS, NOS? Yes.
Will you tell me to shut up when I need to? (I talk and babble, narcissistically) Yes.
Can you handle someone who has little if any remorse? Yes.
Can you see me weekly? Yes.
Do you want to make an appointment for me next week? Yes.
I'm really not usually this nice, in fact I'm known to be just the opposite with therapists. We'll work on it.
The 23rd? Yep.
Ativan
Wow! Ativan, you really said all this. Are you really a bipolar narcissist with antisocial personality?
You got to watch out as I tend to take things rather literally.
BTW, I just set up an appt. the first part of June at the Trans Resource Center. (I feel I am "trans enough", if you are familiar with this meme.) Anyway asked specifically re: androgyne etc.
I want to know about the groups before I sign up.
--Jay Jay
Quote from: agfrommd on May 18, 2012, 06:44:25 AM
Awesome advice. I've dealt with more than a dozen mental health professionals in my life. I once made an inventory. A third of them really helped me. A third of them just took my money, and a third of them did damage (or at least left me more damaged than when I started).
Hold out for the ones who can help.
Every time a read a post by Ativan, it seems I learn something new.
Quote from: aleon515 on May 18, 2012, 05:51:47 PM
BTW, I just set up an appt. the first part of June at the Trans Resource Center. (I feel I am "trans enough", if you are familiar with this meme.) Anyway asked specifically re: androgyne etc.
I want to know about the groups before I sign up.
--Jay Jay
Wow. I'm eager to hear how that goes (if you're willing to share). I'm very curious how they'll counsel someone with androgyne concerns.
Re: appt. at Trans resource center.
Quote from: agfrommd on May 18, 2012, 06:35:17 PM
Wow. I'm eager to hear how that goes (if you're willing to share). I'm very curious how they'll counsel someone with androgyne concerns.
Yes I sure will. No, I am not sure how it will go. Though maybe my expectations aren't too high. This really is not "therapy". I want to talk to someone who might have some amt. of shared knowledge, as at this point the no. of live humans (versus virtual) who I share this with is zero. (I told one very good friend, and seem to be as far from telling another as can be.) I'll see where it takes me.
--Jay Jay
Quote from: Jamie D on May 18, 2012, 06:15:23 PM
Every time a read a post by Ativan, it seems I learn something new.
LOL!
I learn so much from everyone here!
New people always bring something fresh to the topics!
People who have been here for a while have wisdom to share!
Everyone has questions and answers that beg new questions!
Just the shear diversity of everyone, and yet we have these discussions as if they are almost common place!
You might learn something new every so often from me, yet you offer so much yourself!
You people are incredible, bold, daring! An adventure that few would undertake!
I have things to say, things I know. We all do, we are explorers traveling in uncharted territories.
My posts are things I have learned along the way. I would not be reminded of them if not for all of you!
Thank You!
Ativan
I went all crazy, bought loads of women's clothes that look strange on me, hundreds of cosmetics that make me look like a clown and generally went over the top on female and feminine things.
Now, as time has gone on, I have found a better balance and more natural way of expressing all of myself.
Quote from: Pica Pica on May 19, 2012, 04:38:50 AM
I went all crazy, bought loads of women's clothes that look strange on me, hundreds of cosmetics that make me look like a clown and generally went over the top on female and feminine things.
Now, as time has gone on, I have found a better balance and more natural way of expressing all of myself.
Pica Pica, this sounds pretty cool. Sounds like you have found your own balance. Perhaps there is a process of taking up the opposite and then finding what it is that fits you. (Not that I have done this, but seems like a worthy goal.)
--Jay Jay
Quote from: Pica Pica on May 19, 2012, 04:38:50 AM
I went all crazy, bought loads of women's clothes that look strange on me, hundreds of cosmetics that make me look like a clown and generally went over the top on female and feminine things.
Now, as time has gone on, I have found a better balance and more natural way of expressing all of myself.
This and that...
i robbed my brother's wardrobe. that's what i did
apart form that, i first calmed down. then i got confused, but ativan helped me out with that
after a while some other aspects of life started to get sorted out, so i didn't have time to think too much about it, and i thought i was fine since i was generally happier, and not freaking out over whether or not to go 100% ftm. i was even ok with staying "just me"
now i just ran into some kind of invisible wall. not sure what kind of wall it is, since i can't really see it
but i think the problem has to do with fluidity and how to deal with it
or maybe it's the lack of expertise on non-binaries in norway
i need to do something, and right now i'm trying to figure out what that really is
Quote from: aleon515 on May 19, 2012, 10:53:02 AM
Pica Pica, this sounds pretty cool. Sounds like you have found your own balance. Perhaps there is a process of taking up the opposite and then finding what it is that fits you. (Not that I have done this, but seems like a worthy goal.)
--Jay Jay
I suppose I got excited by the new vistas open to me, and then narrowed down to what makes sense and feels comfortable
Hi, all - it's been awhile for me, since I have posted here. I just wanted to make a couple of comments. I liked the comment about how far to 'push' oneself - outside of your comfort zone. Being married, I have stayed within a zone, basically, but I DO find ways to still express myself more and more - just in less bold ways (I guess I am not living like my tattoo says, 'Born to be bold'!).
Secondly, someone said something about wearing a girly top, and jeans. I don't know if others here, feel this way - but, I always say that I feel female on top, and male on the bottom (even tho anatomically, I am female). Its funny - the other day, I was thinking, here I am, wearing ALL male clothing, but, because I have breasts, I am automatically female - just seemed strange, at the moment. JinJan.
What have I done after I figured this out?
I haven't figured out I'm androgyne, but I do understand I have a non-binary gender identity. I figured this out after I noticed I've been mostly attracted to non-binary people for the last several years. I started wondering and realized some of the attraction has been sadness about not looking like them myself.
I've been reading a lot. One of my dearest friends is MtF, but other than that, I don't know anyone who can relate to this and who I could really talk to. :-\ So I'm kind of feeling alone.
When I understood what this is about - to the point where I'm even thinking about taking hormones etc - all sort of fell apart and got together at the same time. My personality has been very split up since I don't know when, and expressing myself more androgynously with people has been such a relief... 8) I feel more whole, but more confused around those who I don't know very well. I notice how tense and fake I feel when acting like a girl socially, but I need a better self esteem before I can out myself to a wider group of people. Or to my relatives... :-\
So this has been at times like being in a beautiful meadow in the sunset after years of walking in a black tunnel, and at times like wandering around lost in a huge forest at night. I don't know what anybody else feels and I am even more full of questions than before, but at least I know now some of the reasons why I've always felt so "wrong", like me and I don't fit together.
Quote from: Phoeniks on July 06, 2012, 08:01:27 AM
I haven't figured out I'm androgyne, but I do understand I have a non-binary gender identity.
So this has been at times like being in a beautiful meadow in the sunset after years of walking in a black tunnel, and at times like wandering around lost in a huge forest at night. I don't know what anybody else feels and I am even more full of questions than before, but at least I know now some of the reasons why I've always felt so "wrong", like me and I don't fit together.
Understanding that you have a non-binary gender is what is important.
The many terms never have a 'good' fit, they tend to overlap in ways that one wouldn't expect and are constantly evolving for any individual.
The term Androgyn is used as a blanket term on this forum in somewhat of a 'traditional' aspect.
It works as such, many non-binaries relate to it in one way or another, as with many of the descriptions and terms used.
What is important is that you can find the answers to your questions.
And to possibly offer answers that may apply to others questions.
These always lead to ever more questions and answers.
For many, that can bring that
'me and I' ever closer together.
A fine tuning of your sense of self.
That alone is quite an achievement in itself.
Evolving always is.
Ativan
It's great when new people come around and resurrect old threads that could use a dusting off and be reused. And here is one of them. :) Of course, I am the OP, but that doesn't matter really. I think the term "androgyne" is used in this forum is not one that I particularly like. The reason is that to me it sounds ugly, just the word (sorry my Aspy nature, I suppose.) I also feel it is too close to the word "androgynous" which has a meaning that can apply to people who do not identify as non-binary. I agree with the idea that your identification with the idea of non-binary is what is important here.
I've done more now since I posted this. I present male (though very few people would think I am one) and I started going to the transgender center in my city. I have already been to three groups or so and started seeing the director. We talk about once a week, though it isn't exactly a formal therapy relationship. He is not a therapist, but I feel it is therapeutic. (I've also finished a few books.)
--Jay Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on May 18, 2012, 05:51:47 PM
Wow! Ativan, you really said all this. Are you really a bipolar narcissist with antisocial personality?
You got to watch out as I tend to take things rather literally.
Yes.
NOS is Not Otherwise Specified.
I have to deal with bouts of PTSD that come from several different events/times in my life.
Bullheaded and rarely back down.
This has negative repercussions in and to my posts at times. lol.
The PTSD has raised it's ugly and evil head once again. It's mainly why there has been a lack of posts lately.
IRL, at times like this, most people will avoid me.
Today is a better day. Just riding out a mental hurricane of negativity.
It happens, never any rhyme or real reason.
One event can lead to an explosion of reality and past events simultaneously occupying the same space in my mind.
I lived in and participated in very violent environments during my twenties.
It was the peak of my adrenaline junky days.
I meant to answer your question back when you posted it, just realized I hadn't in looking back in this thread.
Ativan
Quote from: aleon515 on July 06, 2012, 12:28:17 PM
It's great when new people come around and resurrect old threads that could use a dusting off and be reused. And here is one of them. :) Of course, I am the OP, but that doesn't matter really. I think the term "androgyne" is used in this forum is not one that I particularly like. The reason is that to me it sounds ugly, just the word (sorry my Aspy nature, I suppose.) I also feel it is too close to the word "androgynous" which has a meaning that can apply to people who do not identify as non-binary. I agree with the idea that your identification with the idea of non-binary is what is important here.
I get a feeling of ugliness from 'androgyne', too - it could have something to do with my Aspie traits ::) It would always be nice to have one term that defines one aspect of you, but if I've learned something this far, it's that I never fit into the nice and easy terms and binarities. Not that I would like to, either, but it would just be so easy to use existing definitions and not having to make your own all the time.
Relief.
Research. Some books, a lot of websites, including this one, some friends. That's ongoing.
Some stress and fear and self-loathing concerning changing my presentation to better represent my gender. Ultimately that cooled off and I am not trying to disguise myself... mostly. I do wish for more freedom of expression, but I know that there is no outfit I can wear that will make others recognize what I am -- especially when I can't even explain it to myself.
Some confusion and disappointment that I can't pin things down more. I can rate statements like "I wish my body had breasts" (not really) or "I feel like a girl" (kinda) or "I identify with womanhood" (no) or "I am masculine" (no) but put them all together and it doesn't lead to a coherent identity. I think it's because they're all statements about binary gender, and that well is poisoned.
Continuing evolution. I went from knowing there was something "girl-brained" about myself, to wondering if I should go MtF and was simply afraid to, to considering myself gender-fluid, then androgyne, then maybe agendered. Currently I'm having another love affair with physics and cosmology, and applying that thinking to gender in a way that says different models each have their own utility but none of them are capital-t Truth.
I first did research. Researching about non-binary genders, about myself, about (partly) transitioning, about transgenders...
Because I strongly want to have my breasts and uterus removed and have a lower voice and male fat distribution, I also spend some time figuring out if I am androgyn or if I am more like a feminine transguy.
I tried to find stories from other people about their non-binary trans* experience, watched some youtube channels, signed up at some forums.
Before I faced the fact that I am androgyn, I was already seeing a therapist for my depressions and Asperger's, so I talked about the gender thing with her too.
Came out to friends and parents
Asked friends and therapist to call me by a different name (legally I can't change it yet untill I have my uterus removed in this country), still have to inform my parents about it (but they aren't really supportive, so I am still hesitant to tell them).
Signed myself up at the gender clinic so that I can transition into a body that feels come comfortable/better to me.
Started to get some guy's clothes into my wardrobe
Thinking about how androgynous I want my appearance to be
Started feeling more comfortable in my skin after coming out, feeling much better, much more relaxed, much more myself.
And generally, a lot of thinking.
I smiled as I was being my self as I was full of harmony from the combination of the feminine and masculine in me, Its a beautiful recognition. Then I begin to study the roots and history of Androgynous and Wow was I amazed at the history and how far back going all the way to the very beginning i reached. "Androgynous" is not a sexuality it's a way of life be yourself. Androgynous is 1, Androgynous is everything in the organic world manifesting both genders–there is always the Masculine present in the Feminine form, and vice versa #Duality. Androgynous is the mind containing both a male and female part, and for "complete satisfaction and happiness," the two must live in harmony. The androgynous mindtransmits emotion without impedimentit is naturally creative, incandescent and undivided ,Shakespeare is a fine model of this. remember that androgyny does not imply a total absence of gender, complete fusion that obliterates any gender-consciousness =frees the mind. A good cooperation of the dual energies would create positivity and prevent imbalanced emotions from emerging. #BeHappy. Happiness is a main characteristic of the androgynous flow. And those who hold such a flow are skilled in being happy. #BeHappy. Quotes From the lovely Virgina Wolf and Samuel Taylor Coleridge "The truth is, a great mind must be androgynous. 1 September 1832." meaning the unification of the left side of the Brain and the unity of the right side of the Brain gives you the complete satisfaction of Happiness.Have a great day.
Although I am not an androgyne, my hersband is.
What did ze do?
Took a new name.
Started cross sex hormones.
Adopted new pronouns.
Started dressing more to hir own desires and less of what society dictates is right.
Became a member of the local and online transgender/transsexual comunity.
:)