this is a comment left on someone i know of , onlines channel about why they have currently decided to transition
"I'm transexual NOW because I currently see myself as a woman with a man's body whereas before I never wanted be a woman. So yes, at some point there has been a mental transition which constitutes my use of the word "NOW". The seed may have always been there but having the genetic disposition to become transexual does not make you transexual! To be transexual means that someone's assigned sex is different to the gender they identify with."
they state before they never actually wanted to be a woman but not a mental shift has occured, they were a androgynous guy before who had never actually wanted to be female but claim that a mental shift has occured within the last 6 months
Mental shift may be their description of the epiphany that a lot of us have had after a long period of self-denial, rather than seeming to be androgynous and changing.
Self identification is really the only guide.
Personally, I am not really concerned whether there was a change or not.
To me, it doesn't even matter if I wasn't born transsexual at birth.
Do I have to prove that I was already like this at birth in order to justify living as a girl now? I don't think so...
If the inception of the "idea" is sexual in nature that's a red flag.
As far as I can remember I always knew I didn't think/react/behaved like a guy and at some point I even asked myself" why am I so much like a girl I'm not even gay!?" but I had no gender/body dysphoria per se; I was well adapted and I fitted in both crowds. I was still suffering from something abstract though and a little before transition I told myself " Maybe I really do suffer from not looking* like a girl) so technically a year earlier I never would've said out loud that I felt like a girl but yeah I guess there always was this latent feeling though so it's not like it just popped out of the blue.
I agree with justmeinoz.
Many can be quite adamant about one outlook then change their claims later. That seems perfectly normal really.
Quote from: spacial on May 10, 2012, 06:52:38 AM
I agree with justmeinoz.
Many can be quite adamant about one outlook then change their claims later. That seems perfectly normal really.
i just worry with people like this that if they are adamant about one outlook and change their mind it could happen again after they have transitioned had srs etc, its a bit different to someome who has been certain that this is the path they need to take their whole life
True. But changing our minds is a feature as well as an indication of intelligence.
The "Late-onset Transsexual" idea has existed for quite a while...
It seems normal, but may require more introspection than for those who know from birth :)
Quote from: mementomori on May 10, 2012, 07:12:45 AM
i just worry with people like this that if they are adamant about one outlook and change their mind it could happen again after they have transitioned had srs etc, its a bit different to someome who has been certain that this is the path they need to take their whole life
If it does then it does. Everyone is different. What one person may feel now, next month, or next year, bares no relation to what you, or I, or anyone else feels about themselves. It's for each of us to discover ourselves, by ourselves, and live our lives the way which feels right to each of us individually.
Temet Nosce - Know Thyself. That's really all you can do.
Quote from: mementomori on May 10, 2012, 07:12:45 AM
i just worry with people like this that if they are adamant about one outlook and change their mind it could happen again after they have transitioned had srs etc, its a bit different to someome who has been certain that this is the path they need to take their whole life
Denial is very powerful and is common in those that are fighting GID very hard. At some point you give up fighting and accept who you are.
It's about the emergent nature of GI ( GID is a backward term that shouldn't be used anymore) or when it "triggers" in life kinda like a biological clock not about how long you live in denial when the condition is internally acknowledged... Some people experience GI in their late teens and even in some cases in adulthood but lead regular cis-normative lives prior to it. Essentially the important factor in determining legitimacy is whether there's a sexual component to it or not.
I have to vote for sounds more like self denial having been an active member of that club for over 30 years. Humans also have a nearly infinite ability to reshape their memories to fit the image of the world we want to acknowledge. When all the world from birth on is telling you that you need to a good boy, you sure want to stuff away those thoughts of wanting to be a girl. After a while it can become automatic, appearing in your head and immediately trashed since it is something too horrible to remember.
I don't really understand that kind of thing either to be honest. :)
Like, I also have social anxiety problems and if someone told me they were just "in denial" about their social anxiety I would probably have to laugh in response to that. Because if you have it, there's no fooling yourself--you know you have it. It physically prevents you from being able to do certain things. Experiencing those things is like being a fish out of water.
I think being in the wrong body is similarly obvious. Even if you don't have a name for it, you know what you have problems with and when. Because they're problems you could never just think your way out of or fool yourself out of having. At least, if you're on the feminine side of the spectrum.
Quote from: pretty on May 12, 2012, 05:11:35 PM
Like, I also have social anxiety problems and if someone told me they were just "in denial" about their social anxiety I would probably have to laugh in response to that. Because if you have it, there's no fooling yourself--you know you have it. It physically prevents you from being able to do certain things. Experiencing those things is like being a fish out of water.
But you can train yourself to deal with anxiety. You can learn your major triggers and avoid them. I have also found that I CAN in fact force myself to do certain things even if they are major triggers or I'm in the middle of an attack, it is just that there will be H3LL to pay after it is done. Disassociation is often a very easy way to deal with anxiety (not saying it is good, just saying it works). I actually feel very disassociated when I take my anxiety medicine. And before you discount any of this I should point out that I carry a bottle of clonazapam with me at all times JUST IN CASE.
Quote from: pretty on May 12, 2012, 05:11:35 PM
I think being in the wrong body is similarly obvious. Even if you don't have a name for it, you know what you have problems with and when. Because they're problems you could never just think your way out of or fool yourself out of having. At least, if you're on the feminine side of the spectrum.
Just as with anxiety, disassociation works great at staving off GID. When the body is only a meat puppet you are driving, the emotions are also muted. Also keep in mind that different environments can have a huge impact. Many of us older transitioners (I'm only 40 but was raised by my grandparents) can tell you how effective pain can be at suppression. Threats of being locked away in a mental hospital are also fairly effective. The mind is a very powerful force. If it must choose between life or death it WILL choose life until it is totally worn down. If it must choose between freedom or containment, it WILL choose to be free.
Eventually you learn to push the lines. I found that I could be feminine and everyone viewed me as a gay boy, but as long as they didn't see me directly or heard about me sleeping with a boy then I was safe.
But no ones path is the same. We are all unique and we all have our own coping mechanisms. None have the right to deny another. And I have trouble seeing why one would WANT to. Lets stop the cycle of hurt. Just because we were hurt doesn't mean we need to lash out at others now.
Quote from: Jeneva on May 12, 2012, 09:32:46 PM
But no ones path is the same. We are all unique and we all have our own coping mechanisms. None have the right to deny another. And I have trouble seeing why one would WANT to. Lets stop the cycle of hurt. Just because we were hurt doesn't mean we need to lash out at others now.
Idk why people keep thinking I'm doing this. Put down your pitchforks people.
I am putting my opinion out there that nobody has to listen to or agree with... only 'cause the overwhelming majority of this community has a different experience and sometimes I feel like people are trying to box up the definition of "transgender" to be ONLY inclusive of the things they agree with--only because most of them agree--and the experiences that resonate with them. So I'm trying to say, like, actually there are all kinds of points of view. But I feel like mine is very marginalized and people use it as an unfair reason to personally attack me.
The only thing I would try to deny people of is hiding their trans intentions from relationship partners. Sorry, I'm never gonna be ok with that. It's not fair to the other person.
Quote from: pretty on May 12, 2012, 05:11:35 PM
I think being in the wrong body is similarly obvious. Even if you don't have a name for it, you know what you have problems with and when. Because they're problems you could never just think your way out of or fool yourself out of having. At least, if you're on the feminine side of the spectrum.
That is NOT an inclusive statement. You just ruled out any methods people used to cope.
I really find it amusing when you claim the people offended by non-inclusive statements you have made are trying to exclude you.
Quote from: Jeneva on May 13, 2012, 05:22:09 PM
That is NOT an inclusive statement. You just ruled out any methods people used to cope.
I really find it amusing when you claim the people offended by non-inclusive statements you have made are trying to exclude you.
Exactly the reason why I find pretty's entire premise offensive. And this is coming from a non-lesbian, feminine, young, unmarried trans girl, and the farthest thing from butch who doesn't have a vested stake in this but who recognizes derision of others when it happens.
:police:
Hi friends
Everyone is entitled to their opinion
Let's make sure to keep the conversation civil and not be venturing into personal attack territory
Thank you
V M
Quote from: Jeneva on May 13, 2012, 05:22:09 PM
That is NOT an inclusive statement. You just ruled out any methods people used to cope.
I really find it amusing when you claim the people offended by non-inclusive statements you have made are trying to exclude you.
Well, there's not much point talking about something with someone if they're talking about something different and acting like I'm talking about it too.
I haven't been talking about coping methods at all... you cope with something
because you know you have it and you have a need to cope with it.
I'm saying I think in most cases you would definitely at least know you have it or somehow be aware.
There's an extent to be reasonably inclusive to... if someone said they didn't know their leg was missing for 20 years, at some point you have to ask if that's realistic. Maybe it is even! Maybe there's a condition or a weird set of reasons that could cause that kind of obliviousness. Idk. I just can't imagine not knowing. <--- my experience. Not singling someone out. Take it for what it is. Jeez.
And umm, to whom it may concern, thanks for the vendetta smite (I thought rep was supposed to be used constructively but don't worry, I'm used to it)--for the record, not talking at all about sexuality here, and I'm not sure why you would think I am, so you can also put your trans-lesbian defense sword down.
??? Is it the way I word myself or what? I swear people, somewhere buried under whatever you all think I'm saying is a totally reasonable POV. :-\
And now I feel bad, 'cause V M just posted there and now it's still going on and blah blah the thread is gonna get locked... maybe we just need one of those cat picture threads instead or something.
Quote from: pretty on May 13, 2012, 07:48:12 PM
I haven't been talking about coping methods at all... you cope with something because you know you have it and you have a need to cope with it.
I'm saying I think in most cases you would definitely at least know you have it or somehow be aware.
There's an extent to be reasonably inclusive to... if someone said they didn't know their leg was missing for 20 years, at some point you have to ask if that's realistic. Maybe it is even! Maybe there's a condition or a weird set of reasons that could cause that kind of obliviousness. Idk. I just can't imagine not knowing. <--- my experience. Not singling someone out. Take it for what it is. Jeez.
And is not denial a valid form of coping for some people?
And for a person using denial to cope, is it not expected that they will not acknowledge the problem?
And while I've never used denial, I have used avoidance. I felt it was hopeless so I didn't talk about it anymore. I just withdrew into my thoughts where I could be as I should be. Because I honestly thought there was no way to proceed I never told Shannon until I learned the truth that had been hidden from me.
Quote from: Jeneva on May 13, 2012, 07:59:45 PM
And is not denial a valid form of coping for some people?
And for a person using denial to cope, is it not expected that they will not acknowledge the problem?
Well, for some people I'm sure, but I just mean even if you get in denial about it, there has to be something that prompted being in denial. Like, I'm not in denial of really liking olympic curling. It's just something that doesn't affect me, ya know?
I dunno :-\ it's not a big deal.
Quote from: pretty on May 13, 2012, 08:04:40 PM
Well, for some people I'm sure, but I just mean even if you get in denial about it, there has to be something that prompted being in denial.
The very definition of denial demands that you IGNORE what prompted it.
So it seems you are agreeing that denial is a valid coping technique yes?
If so then do you see how the below is hurtful to those that used denial?
Quote from: pretty on May 12, 2012, 05:11:35 PM
I think being in the wrong body is similarly obvious. Even if you don't have a name for it, you know what you have problems with and when. Because they're problems you could never just think your way out of or fool yourself out of having. At least, if you're on the feminine side of the spectrum.
Quote from: pretty on May 13, 2012, 07:48:12 PM
And now I feel bad, 'cause V M just posted there and now it's still going on and blah blah the thread is gonna get locked... maybe we just need one of those cat picture threads instead or something.
Reminder:
Quote from: Susan on July 27, 2006, 07:45:44 PM
2. Any attempts to stage protests, dispute the site policy, the TOS/rules, or actions of the staff; in the public areas of this site will not be tolerated and will result in your removal. If you have issues I suggest you contact Susan by email (susan@susans.org), or forum private message, and not bring your issues into the public spaces on this website. For the proper way to raise issues see term #20 below.
And a further reminder to all parties concerned: keep it civil.
You don't have to "know" you have a problem to cope with it, that's one of the interesting ways the human psyche works.
I didn't "know" I was trans, I was in denial.
The denial was a coping mechanism, a way to avoid knowing, a way to ignore it, a way to carry on.
As a part of denial, I did a lot of things. These things were also coping, and yet, I didn't "know". I had no "awareness".
I didn't even "know" as a child.
I knew something wasn't right, and I was angry about my puberty, and I had a lot of self loathing, but the why wasn't there, I didn't know that why, and during and after puberty I even took the whole "something wasn't right" and shoved that further down, into denial.
I didn't want to be a man, when I was 15.
I didn't think of myself as a man, when I was 15.
Because I was in denial.
I didn't even register that trans men existed, even if I had the chance to know more than once, because I was in denial.
Our minds are powerful things. If we're in the right frame of mind at the right time we can cause our very flesh to change. We can give ourselves bruises and burns really just from thought.
It's not unreasonable to think it easily possibly for the mind to be able to create a situation where we do not have any knowledge or understanding of us being trans, even for a number of years.
And to top it off, our memories are malleable. They aren't like pages in a book, they're changeable. Enough denial and we might wake up one day sure that we've never, ever, not even once felt "trans" before, because there's nothing in our memories that suggests we ever did, because we've changed our memories to fit the denial. It's also possible for the memories to change (again) once we've figured ourselves out. We can realize that we're trans, and suddenly remember all kinds of things about feeling this way our whole lives, even if we actually didn't, not as such.
This means that it isn't all that obvious and that the mind can easily make it impossible to realize at the time. If not only because we can't face being "one of those".
And yes. A man can be in denial over a missing leg. He can actually see the whole leg, just "non-functional". The mind can fill in all kinds of reasons why the leg doesn't support his weight. It's part of why the brain's such an incredibly fascinating organ.
Since we keep getting warnings about being civil, I will go ahead and point out that when I use a word or phrase in all caps it is NOT meant as shouting, but rather I am calling attention to the word/phrase much as I could do verbally by stressing it. A sentence in all caps is meant as shouting though ;)
If people are confused by this then I could instead use bold or italics instead for that meaning. If any of the mods feel that would be a better choice then just let me know.
Quote from: Jeneva on May 13, 2012, 08:35:06 PM
Since we keep getting warnings about being civil, I will go ahead and point out that when I use a word or phrase in all caps it is NOT meant as shouting, but rather I am calling attention to the word/phrase much as I could do verbally by stressing it. A sentence in all caps is meant as shouting though ;)
If people are confused by this then I could instead use bold or italics instead for that meaning. If any of the mods feel that would be a better choice then just let me know.
My titis hurt- in homage to the blog
Quote from: Connie Anne on May 13, 2012, 08:24:06 PM
Reminder:
And a further reminder to all parties concerned: keep it civil.
Connie.. I know you are trying to do your job here but the "I feel bad" part was not at all meant as a protest or disputing anything at all ???. I am confused at how it could be taken as that. It was like the opposite of that.
"Our minds are powerful things. If we're in the right frame of mind at the right time we can cause our very flesh to change. We can give ourselves bruises and burns really just from thought."
yea when ive had bad depression before , its been to the point where i have body aches so severe its a struggle to walk but with no apparantly physical cause
it would be good if we could harness some of that minds power over the body for positive change not destruction :P
Quote from: mementomori on May 13, 2012, 09:59:37 PM
it would be good if we could harness some of that minds power over the body for positive change not destruction :P
You can, it's called hypnotherapy. ;)
Quote from: pretty on May 13, 2012, 09:49:34 PM
Connie.. I know you are trying to do your job here but the "I feel bad" part was not at all meant as a protest or disputing anything at all ???. I am confused at how it could be taken as that. It was like the opposite of that.
It was more the "and now it's still going on and blah blah the thread is gonna get locked" part that seemed very close to registering a protest. If that was not your intention, then I apologize for seeming heavy-handed.
As always, if anyone feels that my actions as a moderator go too far, please report me by contacting Forum Admin and Susan directly.