I don't know if i'm going to get any gruff from this, i live in Singapore where being different means you get the "I hate you and everyone that looks like you" as the stereotypes go "Asian Stare". Which i get a lot to the point i don't want to go out of the house at all, next year (which has nothing to do with this) i'm moving to San Francisco, i just want to know, are Americans the same, do they stare are people a lot or do they mind their business, as a trans girl who is 5'11 i am very conscious of myself sadly and some help would be nice :), thanks.
Everyone stares, Donna.
I'm sure you do it too, we all have different reasons for doing it though.
I doubt anyone really thinks you'redisgusting, you pass 100%.
SF will be a lot of a more friendly place though.
I can only speak from my own experience, not with Americans but with Chinese (I am an angmoh - a whitey).
I seem to pass with Chinese people almost without exception. When I speak in Mandarin to them, they will often ask why I don't go to China to work, or why don't I teach English in a school there. I think if they knew my past they would not be so keen to give this advice.
I'm guessing from your beautiful photograph that you are Singaporean Indian. Consider this: What might make your facial features look masculine to Singaporeans will probably make you just look like a Singaporean Indian to most people in the US. Just as the things that might give me away as a transwoman to angmohs in Australia, Chinese will just process as being typical of a western woman's features.
Another thing to think about if you have been walking around Singapore at a height of 5'11, you will have been much taller than your average Singaporean woman of any ethnic group, but in SF, not so much. Best of luck xx
QuoteI doubt anyone really thinks you'redisgusting, you pass 100%.
SF will be a lot of a more friendly place though.
Quote
in SF, not so much
That's comforting
Quote
I'm guessing from your beautiful photograph that you are Singaporean Indian
Actually i'm mixed.
It is my impression that most American women do not make eye contact -specially with men- unless they are engaging the person in conversation. American women smile to other women -even strangers- it is kind of an acknowledgement.
American men on the the hand always make a brief eye contact with other men, sort of acknowledgement.
So, as an American woman, I smile to tother women, and seldom make eye contact with men. Where I live, northern Virginia, I get the stares on occasion, if they come from men I think it is because they are admiring me, if they come from women I think the "bitches" are jealous :laugh:
At 5 10 1/2 I have no problem with my height, plenty of taller girls around.
Welcome to the USA
So i should smile at women in the us?
If you meet someone's eyes, you should smile. It's just polite and is generally welcome. Most people will give some sort of smile back in acknowledgement.
I've noticed, and my parents have noticed, that Americans do like to stare and do like to look at people more than some other countries. It's one thing that endears my parents to England; most people they've met in England mind their own business and kind of let things be while in the U.S. people seem nosier by comparison.
However, people just generally like to stare and watch others. I do it all of the time, but I find people immensely fascinating. It's not because I'm nosy, it's because I enjoy watching the changes in society and how people interact differently with others.
There are many reasons why someone might be staring. Don't assume it's because they see something odd about you. You're very pretty in your avatar pic. They might find you attractive. It's not polite and some people aren't very tactful about it, but they might just be staring because you're easy on the eyes or they might even be trying to convey interest to you with body language and trying to gauge whether there is any interest in return by your reaction. Some people are better at it. They know how to hint at that with a polite, maybe slightly lingering glance and a smile but others don't have a well-developed sense of boundaries and space bubbles and might just stare. I know I've been there myself and I like to think I'm much better now as I've gotten older. We don't all develop social skills as easily as others. I guess there's a trick to learning how much is welcome and at what point you're making someone feel uncomfortable or even violated.
Generally I tend to find it very mixed, It really depends on what you are doing, how many people are around, and how close you are to someone. However I no matter what try to smile, and occasionally say hi and wave then move on. x3 I'm just good around people (yet oddly bad at being sociable closer up)
Donna,
You should enjoy San Francisco a lot, once you get a feel for the city you should be comfortable with how people are...yes they might stare, but its usually followed with at least a little smile or nod of "hello".
You also have to remember that SF is a major tourist destination for all kinds of people from all over the world..so, tourists do like to stare and take a lot of pictures, dont be offended by that, just go about your business and they wont really bother you ;)
You might even start to feel more normal here as far as your height goes since tall girls are not all that unusual on the west coast
You also might get a chance to meet some of us when you get here! I for one would enjoy meeting you :)
everyone on this planet stares at something. It isn't just confined to Singapore. It isn't a regional issue but a human issue. Even in San Francisco, people will stare.
The best thing is just be yourself an ignore those who do stare at you. You'll go insane trying to find a perfect place where no one worries about how the other looks.
I'm sitting down in boy clothes in public and i'm being stared down right now.
I look way too awkward in guy clothes haha.
But I don't care.
I don't know about Americans as in "person from the United States" [why on Earth don't you have a term for people from your country in English? Dictionaries remain mute. o.o], but Americans as in "person from America" here don't stare a lot. Since we both have a Western culture, it should be relatively similar in the US.
Well, quite a few will give a weird look or something if something is weird, but they won't actually stare at "weird" people. Only particularily rude people stare, usually. That, or if they're genuinely trying to understand what gender you are, which shouldn't happen in your case.
When confronted with something very weird or disrupting, I think most people actually avoid to look at it once they've seen it.
And also, as it's been said, 5'11 sure is well over the average woman's height, but women that tall actually exist in significant numbers here - I'd say about 5 % - so it's much less shocking than in some Asian countries where people, especially women, are typically very short compared to the Caucassian average, and even a tall man would get stared at a lot, right?
Finally, otherwise, you pass very well, I think. People -might- look at you, surprised to see such a large woman (even though you most probably won't be the first/tallest they see), but I don't think they'll clock you or give you a hateful look. Well, apart from envious aspiring models who were rejected because they were too short, maybe! Ehe.
Seriously? You're going to be in San Fransisco of all places! They won't stare or care since they have seen much weirder things than a transsexual.
Quote from: GhostTown11 on May 19, 2012, 02:54:38 PM
Seriously? You're going to be in San Fransisco of all places! They won't stare or care since they have seen much weirder things than a transsexual.
I know...right ;)
Donna's comfort level should get much better there!, she will blend in quite well :)
Quote from: dalebert on May 19, 2012, 11:58:07 AM
There are many reasons why someone might be staring. Don't assume it's because they see something odd about you.
This ^
I personally like to start at people ESPECIALLY when I'm out of state. When I was in Washington I stared the living daylights out of people and movements because I like to get a feel for what the people look like. If I were in California I would stare just as much at EVERYONE if not harder. People watching is fun and I like to see how they interact with each other.
Besides have you ever heard of EarthCam? I watch people there from California and all other parts of the country and even Moscow all the time. They have no clue to they are being stared at.
I guess it just depends on the person's motive but yes. In my personal experience women, older men, and babies, and children stare the most.
The awkward part may be the locking of the eyes and what you do from there. It could show a lot about your personality. I've given people the "wtf" look or the "look down on the ground" look.
I say you shouldn't worry about it. People are just going to stare.
Quote from: JoeyD on May 19, 2012, 07:33:52 AM
Everyone stares, Donna.
I'm sure you do it too, we all have different reasons for doing it though.
I doubt anyone really thinks you'redisgusting, you pass 100%.
SF will be a lot of a more friendly place though.
Not everyone, in places like lithuania its considered very rude to stare or even look at other people. just to give an exemple.
I think its a good question.
Because of American culture, most fine it impolite to stare. Momma always said "Don't stare", as she tapped the back of your head. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsmileys.on-my-web.com%2Frepository%2FAnimals%2Fferret-9.gif&hash=42bd2ee88d4ddc91007b3b25799f543e9ee358f1)
Women smile when they make eye contact with another woman, even us. Men stare when they like what they see.
Some may stare, but by looking back at them, they usually quit. San Francisco is pretty accepting, as is Portland and Seattle.
Don't worry your pretty little head, Donna. Any stares you may get will be from guys, and then you will get a smile and maybe a phone number. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsmileys.on-my-web.com%2Frepository%2FAnimals%2Fferret-3.gif&hash=f49e2f86761323f2abd9c33941920389dbb3b10f)
Yup American culture doesn't like starerers.
San Francisco is a pretty easy going place when it comes to transsexuals. If that doesn't work out, go to New Orleans. Yes, people here may give that suggestion a bunch of crap, but seriously that is the most laid back city I've ever been to. The people there are very polite and welcoming no matter what you are. I was walking down Bourbon Street with my mom, being touristy, and some random person shook my hand for no reason, just as a welcome. I seriously think you could be the worst passing transsexual on the planet and they wouldn't give it a second thought.
Donna I'm sure you heard this before but you really have to stop externalizing your low self esteem and need for approval on just random people on the street. People stare because curiously enough, they're interested in their surroundings. Until you deal with this, you will continue to feel unhappy and insecure even if you lived in translandia, transiztan.
Lotsa tall girls in the States.
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 19, 2012, 05:28:18 PM
I was walking down Bourbon Street with my mom, being touristy, and some random person shook my hand for no reason, just as a welcome.
Are you sure they weren't just trying to steal your watch?
I prefer tiny towns way more than cities. And where I live, being a little tall as a woman is nothing, plenty of us around.
QuoteAre you sure they weren't just trying to steal your watch?
Funny, even though this is not aimed at me obviously...i would have never thought that lol.
QuoteDon't worry your pretty little head, Donna. Any stares you may get will be from guys, and then you will get a smile and maybe a phone number.
I never expected so many replies and such mixed feelings, but i feel i need to ask this. Am i pretty still in these pics or do i look odd? this is how i look most of the time. Will people in San Francisco find me odd?
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi440.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq121%2FMasatoMAX%2FDSC09649.jpg&hash=d4a6c0a4f4a40ff7b67af40bf0f033badfac01da)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi440.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq121%2FMasatoMAX%2FDSC09652.jpg&hash=532d7681a992b64799a4ff385a0da7ae67be96e5)
Please don't get mad at me or flame me.
Quote from: DonnaTroy on May 19, 2012, 08:57:57 PM
Funny, even though this is not aimed at me obviously...i would have never thought that lol.
I don't trust people that aren't very close friends that try to touch me.
Donna, SF is my town!!
trust us when we say nobody will look at you other than to admire your beauty!! I can not begin to explain that you will have zero issues here unless you create them yourself ;)
You could even have a job here and wouldnt have to explain a thing, just blend right in with the rest of us!!!
Donna, you are a pretty girl. You will have no problems here in the States. Unless men falling all over themselves is a problem.
Quote from: DonnaTroy on May 19, 2012, 07:25:48 AM
I don't know if i'm going to get any gruff from this, i live in Singapore where being different means you get the "I hate you and everyone that looks like you" as the stereotypes go "Asian Stare". Which i get a lot to the point i don't want to go out of the house at all, next year (which has nothing to do with this) i'm moving to San Francisco, i just want to know, are Americans the same, do they stare are people a lot or do they mind their business, as a trans girl who is 5'11 i am very conscious of myself sadly and some help would be nice :), thanks.
I don't know what it's like in Singapore.. but Im betting you'll find people in San Fransisco are pretty agreeable. Have you been there before? It's a beautiful city. If you venture into the bible belt of the United States, you'll find probably less agreeable people.
"Do Americans stare?"
Sometimes, it's hard to tell.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.uhull.com.br%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F05%2FCross-Eyed-Surgeon.jpg&hash=5390f612dd620e7b3fff46146cc6b2b6f75e462e)
No, you don't look odd. You look sad, and maybe tired, but not really odd.
pretty? :D hehe.
Donna,
You look great. Don't worry about it, you will take SF by storm. Just make sure you can give the cute guys your phone number, and then expect lots of texts asking you out.
Donna. I wouldn't worry about a thing. You're a gorgeous girl. I'm 5'10" and not worried about my heigth anymore. I used to be, but when women began to compliment me on my heigth, I became more at ease and embraced it.
To me you're a woman. Just be yourself, and grace us with your presence here in the States. Welcome.
Monica.
i hope my new ava is pretty, thanks for all the replies :)
why would anyone be worried abou being 5"10 lol . some of the best looking supermodels/ runway models are like 6'2 .
Another pretty accepting place is Toronto; I'm thinking of moving there next year.
Donna, like others have said, you look great. Your height won't get you noticed in the USA. Although you are on the tall side, you are not really, really tall. You are still in the height range of many, many gg's.
Other than that, there has been so much good advice already that I can't add much to this...
Best wishes to you! :)
Thanks i just want to know if i'm pretty/pass so that i know i won't have that as a problem.
Quote from: DonnaTroy on May 20, 2012, 08:32:53 AM
Thanks i just want to know if i'm pretty/pass so that i know i won't have that as a problem.
I wish I had your looks. You are pretty and will blend ( hate "pass" ) and I think the only reason you got stared at is you are tall in an Asian Country/City. Asians stare at tall people because they don't seem to grow tall. Here tall women are not all that uncommon. In fact that is a gal at school who is over 6'.
I am 5' 10" and older (58). I never get stared at. As we say here you are "drop dead gorgeous" (this is a very good thing).
Donna, I'm going to be honest. I've been quite annoyed with how low your self esteem is.
I promise you life gets so much easier when you stop caring what others think of you.
Furthermore, I pass pretty much all the time unless somebody outs me. People still stare at me, mostly men. Yet every stranger that I've somehow been outed to has been absolutely shocked and confused. Almost EVERY SINGLE FEMALE will have a guy stare at them if they're doing something right :P
Get over your fear of being looked at. You're tall, so the hell what. Move to the states if you want to blend in among taller girls, I can actually understand that. But I do get so frustrated when you get on here almost every day in worry about whether your appearance is passable or not. We keep telling you that you are, and truth be told, this girl that passes 95%+ of the time wishes she had many of your features.
Give me my first thumbs down if you think I deserve it, but it was worth saying what I just said. Donna, ILY and can understand where you're coming from, but please listen to everybody on the board. You pass. End of question. No need to keep asking. If you don't, it's your lack of self esteem and fear of actually looking somebody in the eye.
Quote from: Jaime on May 19, 2012, 08:27:39 PM
Are you sure they weren't just trying to steal your watch?
Lol! I'm positive. Bourbon Street is probably the safest party street in the US. There's 2 cops on nearly every corner every night.
Quote from: DonnaTroy on May 20, 2012, 08:32:53 AM
Thanks i just want to know if i'm pretty/pass so that i know i won't have that as a problem.
Yes you look pretty, yes you look like you are a born female. I understand why you suffer from low self confidence now; you are a lot taller than average for where you live. Trust me though, if you do move to the USA (Expect a similar populace in Canada where I live), you will have no trouble blending in at all.
People will likely take notice still; you are pretty. I doubt anyone will actually stare at you once you move though-its considered rude to stare, especially if the person you are staring at is aware of it!
If guys are staring, they probly have the hots for you, or are intimidated, if they are very short. Or the short guys may wish they were taller so they coud date you- who knows? Lol
Anyway, I would be very happy if I looked like you and have doubts that I will turn out okay looking after hrt. And I am very short. I thought I was 5'4", but my Dr. Recently measured me to be 5'3.5"?? Guess I shrunk. My point is, height isn't everything. I think voice and face are much more important and right now I have neither.
I hope you are, or will be really glad to be you. I can't say much about anything else about you, because I don't know you personally. As far as the physical goes, you've got it going on girl!
I just wanted to add one thing in this edit: If I could have a face as feminine and attractive looking as yours, but it meant growing to be 5'10" tall...I would do it without hesitation.
QuoteIf I could have a face as feminine and attractive looking as yours, but it meant growing to be 5'10" tall...I would do it without hesitation.
That's so sweet but i'm 5'11 lol would you still want to look like me? anyway -HUGS-
Quote from: DonnaTroy on May 21, 2012, 01:05:51 AM
That's so sweet but i'm 5'11 lol would you still want to look like me? anyway -HUGS-
And I never flatter, I only say things the way I see them, so what I say is genuine.
Sorry, 5'11"? That's still not tall enough to get noticed around here, so yeah. I like to be unique looking though, so I would rather look more like you than me, but not a twin. The same goes for many other lucky, pretty ladies who use this site.
Will just have to wait and see how the hrt works for me. My Dr. (Who is trans like us) says I will turn out well, even though I feel like I'm really old now at 33. For the short time I was on hrt 5 years ago, it was like magic. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a repeat of that.
QuoteI just wanted to add one thing in this edit: If I could have a face as feminine and attractive looking as yours, but it meant growing to be 5'10" tall...I would do it without hesitation.
I really hope that statement still stands, it makes me happy to know i can be attractive :). I don't know how you look but i wish you look your best too -HUGS-, and that's really cool having a doctor just like us. Wish i could find somebody like that, she would understand us so much better than just a regular GID.
Edit: i understand what you mean now by that, trying my best not to sound vain which i hate! you want to have the same "attractiveness and pretty of my face" not look exactly like me, same goes for me when i look at models and think "i wish i had her beauty" :).
Donna,
I am 6' 2"....if you want to feel a bit shorter for once we can hang out for a day when you get here :)
5' 10" is surely not an unusual girl height around here, you will be perfect with all your cute-ness!!
Being tall and beautiful here will just have people suggesting you should model.
5'11" that's not bad no matter how I'm dressed at 7 foot tall I always get stared at lol.
Quote from: DonnaTroy on May 21, 2012, 01:05:51 AM
That's so sweet but i'm 5'11 lol would you still want to look like me? anyway -HUGS-
Donna, 5'11 is a very common height in America, even for women.
I'm 5'9 and half of the genetic women I know are as tall or slightly taller than me.
Not -all- of America, at the very least.
I tower above 90-95 % girls at 165 cm / 5'5, and I'm only slightly below the male average.
But yeah, I've heard that in the US, people tend to be taller than that.
The average height for a female in the US is 5'4".
But its not unusual to find girls over 5'10"
Quote from: A on May 21, 2012, 06:33:53 PM
Not -all- of America, at the very least.
I tower above 90-95 % girls at 165 cm / 5'5, and I'm only slightly below the male average.
But yeah, I've heard that in the US, people tend to be taller than that.
You tower over girls being 5'5? This is a case where the problem is them not you >:-)
Do American's Stare? I don't know as I've never been to America! ::)
Quote from: Kelly-087 on May 21, 2012, 05:09:04 PM
Donna, 5'11 is a very common height in America, even for women. I'm 5'9 and half of the genetic women I know are as tall or slightly taller than me.
Oh goody! I'm gonna look tiny if I go over to America!
I find Americans pretty much mind their own business compared to Latino's. Wow, can our community stare.
It's been my experience that the more you think people are going to stare at you, the more they do stare at you. The reason being that your body language becomes that of someone trying to hide something, so as not to be stared at. And that in itself looks out of place, not what the person themselves looks like.
I've lost count of the number of times I've seen tall women walking down the street, acting totally natural, oblivious to the people around them, and not given them a second glance beyond "hmm, she's pretty." And by the same token, women of 'average' height, looking like they should blend seemlessly into the background but then you notice their eyes darting around furtively, their movement hesitant, moving quickly from one place to another... and it's a case of "hang on, what is she doing? Why is she acting like that?"
That in itself draws longer than normal looks from people just out of sheer curiosity. The way people act and carry themselves is far, far more noticeable than what someone looks like. If you go about your business like you have something to shy away from, or something you feel you don't want others to pay any attention to then it can often have the opposite effect since people are going to wonder exactly what that something is.
Donna, you're extremely gorgeous. Sweetie you are. What you have to learn to do is to live your life as though other people around you don't matter. I know that's a hard thing to do. It's almost instinctive to wonder what others are thinking and seeing as you pass. But really, think of it this way. If people stare at you, it's not as though you're going to disintegrate into a little pile of ash from laser beams which come from their eyes. And if they have little better to do than stare at someone else then that doesn't mean you should spend that same amount of time feeling bad about it. You don't know them. They don't know you. And once you've passed, given a few minutes, someone else will be getting stared at. Some folks are just like that.
*big hug* You can't be responsible for what other people think about you based on a glance. You can be responsible for how much that matters to you, and how much power you're prepared to give these people over the way you live your life. :)
QuoteAnd by the same token, women of 'average' height, looking like they should blend seemlessly into the background but then you notice their eyes darting around furtively, their movement hesitant, moving quickly from one place to another... and it's a case of "hang on, what is she doing? Why is she acting like that?"
That is so true!!! I have noticed myself getting nervous and thinking that people were looking when they were only checking me out, and then I probably seemed strange for making eye contact with them. Haha then I noticed some of them (men) got nervous and look away quickly (the men). I'm positive this is what is going to happen to you Donna, stares of attraction, not nasty stares of intolerance you might get from some Singaporeans....I am so chicken of going to Singapore as a transwoman, not so afraid of going to SF.
I have only really had one nasty stare here in Australia. It was on a bus, and I can understand the feeling of self-consciousness and worry that comes from it. Being from a place where people do it all the time is bound to give you self-confidence issues, but I think you can look upon SF as a place to escape from all that.
I imagine American's are far more image conscious than in any other country. But I've never been to the USA , so I can't comment on the thread.