I hate to think that if I don't have a convincing enough story that I was born in the wrong body, that people won't respect my want to be a woman and may question me and may think that I am crazy, wierd, or even possibly a pervert. I don't want to care about what people think of me like that, but they may get the wrong idea or just not understand and I feel that would affect me. Do I have to really modify my story just to convince people that I'm transsexual? I get furious seeing how people like Ray Blanchard sees transsexuals, and how people like him make it a crime to want to be female if one is born anatomically male, and like its some kind of sick behavior, and yet noone really cares about all the tomboy and butch lesbian women, like anatomically female women have the privilege of crossing gender lines but not anatomically male people. And seeing the lesser tolerance of crossdressers in society compared to transsexuals, why must society think it to be wierd or disturbing for a genetic male (that doesn't claim to be born in the wrong body) to want to be female / a woman?
I dont think you should change your story for anyone. Your desire to be a woman is just that, YOUR desire. As for society, there is always going to be some sort of discrimination. It changes from generatio, to generation but there is always some form of it. Unfortunately, we live in a time where we are not socially accepted. It is our job to fight this so that future trans people will have the freedoms we dont. This is just my point of view.
I really desire having female sized breasts
I really really desire having a vagina
I really desire having a female shaped body including face
Yet I only generally feel like a reluctant tolerance of my body (except my genital area, which ranges from tolerance to "I don't want to see it or think that I have it") but not a continual feeling of rejection of my body (however, seeing myself naked and not seeing myself as looking feminine can be a problem) It is also probably because I'm still largely forced to present a "male persona", but also that I have significantly bigger than normal breasts (for an XY person) and a somewhat curvy body that I haven't had more intense body rejection issues. However, especially when I was dressing up and going to TG clubs years ago, I had intense body dysphoria when I had to undress and see the grim reality of not having a female body, most intensely if I had to see my genital area in the mirror (I guess I provoked it by always imagining in my mind that I had a female body when I dressed up.)
So is it right for me to say that I was born in the wrong body?
Quote from: Katelyn on June 06, 2012, 11:01:19 AM
So is it right for me to say that I was born in the wrong body?
Do you feel like you were?
I know that's not a yes or no, but a question like that is one that you can really only answer yourself based on how you feel.
Sometimes "in the wrong body" is almost shorthand for a whole array of feelings that add up to "GID" or "gender dysphoria."
Rather than deal in cliches, you might wish to discuss these issues with a professional gender therapist, if one is available to you.
But Sephirah's answer is right to the point. If you have dysphoric feelings, then you should address them.
Maybe I am weird, oh wait I know I am, but I never thought of myself as being born in the wrong body. I always felt I should have been a girl and that is how I always put it.
I know logically it makes little sense. Maybe in my case it's because I never thought much of my body to begin with. I don't hate it, just not overjoyed about it being a guy's. I know some are quite upset over the dangly bits. Again, I am not thrilled over them, but we have had some good times together ;D If I ever transition full-time I don't expect SRS to be on my must have list. Only being seen by most as the woman I feel myself to be is. That is my source of joy.
As far as "a convincing enough story" goes, just who are you trying to sell it to? The only person that needs to be convinced you are on the right path for you, is you and you alone. Being trans is incredibly difficult to fully grasp for us. It sure has to be tons harder for non trans folks.
Perhaps "Educate" is a better way to put it. After all, that is about all we can try to accomplish. You cannot convince people who don't want to be. AKA, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink."
Quote from: Katelyn on June 06, 2012, 10:20:38 AM
I hate to think that if I don't have a convincing enough story that I was born in the wrong body, that people won't respect my want to be a woman
I would propose that you -like many of us- have always been and you are a female; you have been misgender at birth, and now you seek to correct this grievous mistake.
Quote from: peky on June 06, 2012, 05:36:22 PM
I would propose that you -like many of us- have always been and you are a female; you have been misgender at birth, and now you seek to correct this grievous mistake.
As I've felt it, I believe that I've felt this need to have to put up a "male persona" since I was very young (because I was extremely sensitive as to how others perceived me) and I since even 4 years old have felt that I had to suppress my female self for sake of survival (because i've felt since then that it was a de facto capital offense for someone perceived to be a male to be like a girl / woman), but I know and feel that if I were to be in a very safe and supportive environment, I would be able to be the girl/woman I've felt myself to be. I really wish one day to find that safe and supportive environment. Even if I do not, I want to go on with transitioning but its more difficult given how I can't completely cut ties with my (most likely unsupportive) parents and I have to feel alone in going out into the world and being at the mercy of public opinion and potentially unsafe situations from it.
I know for sure though how many times I've felt like I've been trapped in this life, and how much I wish I could escape my life to be the woman I want to be.
Quote from: Jamie D on June 06, 2012, 02:07:06 PM
Sometimes "in the wrong body" is almost shorthand for a whole array of feelings that add up to "GID" or "gender dysphoria."
Yeah, I think in some cases it's meant to be simple, memorable and dramatic, at the expense of not accurately covering all the ways dysphoria can be felt.
And it's not literally true. It's not a case of a brain or mind being accidentally installed in the wrong body at the baby factory, it's a case of a brain and body not getting the same signals from hormones at some point (or something like that.. I'm not an expert).
QuoteDo I have to really modify my story just to convince people that I'm transsexual?
I hate to be so blunt, but, um, of course you do. The best way to be honest and operate in good faith and still not give the wrong impression is just to roll with your surroundings. Be vague when necessary. Maybe echo the stories people need to make of you. Simplify your narrative and just correct people when incorrect details interfere with your ability to be authentic.
It is nobody's business but yours why and how you define yourself in one way or another or what you want to become, but sometimes just getting people to get it however they can respectfully do so is worth a little playacting. Prolly.
to be "born in the wrong body" is a CONCEPT, a LABEL, short hand for what you expressed in so many more words of one or two paragraphs.
For me - that's all there is to it.
Concepts are behind the labels we use, and with some lables we have ISSUES.
Issues because we are not clear or are opposed to the concept behind the label.
Labels are practical, in that we do not have to say thing in long text and "born in the wrong body" is no exeption - for me.
So my question would be WHY do you have an issue to use this label?
Axelle
Why the hell should you care about what other people think.
They don't care about what you think or feel.
Let them and live your life in a way you are comfortable with. period.
I briefly went to a therapist to get authorization, older you are the easier it is of course. I suggest you find a gay/les/trans friendly health center and trust me it will be easy! Just say the truth, the truth is more convincing than a lie.
A normal psychologist will most of the time just be out for your money or they themselves have no interest in transexuals and think your a poor soul in need of cleansing.
Once you start hormones, you very quickly feel AMAZING. Estrogen is a miracle drug for your mental state ^^. I don't really believe in seeing a therapist to re-affirm to the world your true gender, but I do see their value in helping YOU let out your emotions of who you are. Many of us never had a support group beforehand and the therapist if you find a good one will be there to help sort out any issues or fears you might have.
Once I got authorization I never went back though... didn't need to.
I never cared much for the "born in the wrong body" meme. It sounds so melodramatic and I never felt it conveyed much of what I am/was experiencing. Actually it almost made me cringe every time people would use the phrase while in transition. Mostly I think it's just a simplistic way for most people to wrap their head around the whole idea of transsexualism. I would often find myself in conversations explaining what was going on with me, but rarely (if ever) did I get the sense that they truly understood what I had just told them. Gender dysphoria is very hard to describe to someone that has never had the experience. It's nothing at all like really really wanting an awesome sports car or something :)
Katelyn, I can relate, for many years I (like most of us) ignored or repressed what we knew. We lied to ourselves using any available reason (in some cases not having a reason and just refusing to think about it) in an effort to ignore what deep down we knew but didn't understand. I personally felt more like I had been betrayed by my body, not necessarily like I was put in the wrong one. It was almost like it didn't get a memo, that it was absent on orientation day. Eventually, we came to the realization that lying to ourselves was wrong. We stopped, and embraced who we were!
With that said, is it any less a tragedy, is it any less wrong, to then lie about ourselves to others? I don't believe so. Does that mean going out and telling everybody up front about where we are in our life? Goodness no! It, like who we choose to have sex with, is a private and special part of ourselves, and should be reserved for those we feel are special in our lives. To anyone else, it doesn't matter, doesn't apply and doesn't affect their life in any single way.
It's important when we do share this piece of ourselves to do so with confidence and knowledge. It's important that once we make the decision to get informed! There are some AMAZING discussions going on about it over here;
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,121240.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,121240.0.html)
specifically the post about BTSc by Peky and others, there's a wiki on the Stria Terminalis and it's effects on gender identity linked there as well. In the end, learn about yourself, both emotionally, physically, and spiritually, and then explain things to your audience in ways that they will understand. Remember, knowledge and understanding start with you; who you tell, how you explain, and how you react to their opinion. These are the things you control, and never give that control up because "you think you should" or "you felt obligated."
I've always reacted to my masculinity in different ways to fool myself, probably. I suppose it was a subconscious thing. I still remember how my mom and my sister looked at me after they took me to wax my legs. I was 17. I also used to pluck my eyebrows, use creams, be VERY self-conscious about what I would dress, etc. Several members of my family have repeated (time and again...) to me that there's nothing wrong with being gay. But somehow, I know that, if/when I tell them, or any therapist, it will not sink in. They will think it's something else, even if my mom and sister probably suspect that I've been using their clothes for more than a decade now (someday I'll have to apologize for that though...). It doesn't help either than we, as a family, have been going through really f*****g hard times lately, starting with my depression, my mom's mental health problems, the death of my uncle, several cases of cancer in the family... So, probably, just as you Katelyn, or anyone else here, the last thing I need is some gender policeman/woman telling me what I am or I'm not.
Sorry for the ramblings, but the hookers that live across the road are making a scene just like last summer. I guess that's what you get when you live in a ghetto of sorts... Let's see how many raids we see this year... :'(
Quote from: Jamie D on June 06, 2012, 02:07:06 PM
Sometimes "in the wrong body" is almost shorthand for a whole array of feelings that add up to "GID" or "gender dysphoria."
Rather than deal in cliches, you might wish to discuss these issues with a professional gender therapist, if one is available to you.
But Sephirah's answer is right to the point. If you have dysphoric feelings, then you should address them.
I agree it is something of a cliche, an attempt to explain more complex concepts in a simplified format. You always hear this on TV, for instance. It might be convenient for what it is.
I don't know, if I understood your question, why a professional would have reason not to believe you.
--Jay Jay
When it comes to transition lots of people use different metaphors or explanations in order to express the same need or desire.
However because different words mean different things and imply different concepts to different people... a lot of people get hung-up on metaphors and explanations, words... and words, labels, metaphors end up separating us, creating division and misunderstanding.
There was a time when I expressed that I had been born into the wrong body.
Later on I felt like I had been born with the wrong genitals which caused me to have to grow up male, which screwed up my social experience entirely.
Lately I feel like I never really needed to transition at all, except if I hadn't I would have ended up dead somehow. But basically when there is no dysphoria there seems to be no problem and one forgets what things were like before, especially if one is me.
Quote from: Noey Nooneson on June 08, 2012, 04:18:21 AM
[clipped]
There was a time when I expressed that I had been born into the wrong body.
Later on I felt like I had been born with the wrong genitals which caused me to have to grow up male, which screwed up my social experience entirely.
Lately I feel like I never really needed to transition at all, except if I hadn't I would have ended up dead somehow. But basically when there is no dysphoria there seems to be no problem and one forgets what things were like before, especially if one is me.
Gosh, and I so can relate to just this! It IS GID that drove ME on, BIG time!
Now - GID is pretty much a thing of the past the situation becomes 'odd' at times. Because I am who I always was, some of my mannerisms have 'expanded' - those I could NEVER let show, same does apply to feelings... no more need to suppress.
Being ME was always being female (~ in my head for sure) – and now in body, the question does arise and mostly in the wee hours: "What WAS all this about???" transition, GID, the lot.
Then I ask what it be like to be back in male-guise, genitals and all --- and I so know that this was NOT ever me. Not really. No! It's a mess if this "wrong body/genitals happens", and so one wonders. Simply wonders, and in reality it just IS.
All technicalities and science explanations only does help so much. More so in the beginning. Once fully transitioned... we sort of done with it.
Go explain ALL in scientific terms... yet the original conundrum remains.
What is - is, as far as our condition is concerned.
Explanations, words, concepts, labels, --- why actually even muck about with it all? I now often wonder.
It needs acceptance – full acceptance by *oneself* and THAT, - doesn't not come easy. Not in the wee hours, ever so often.
My 2 cents,
Axélle
I can certainly relate to this as well. After transition was all said and done and things settled down I have many times found myself wondering what it was really all about in the first place and why it was so important to do this thing. If I try to imagine what my life would be like now if I hadn't transitioned it all makes perfect sense, because that life would simply have been impossible to live how ever long it might have lasted.
It's strange thinking about life pre-transition these days because it seems my memories have sort of been retrofitted with the person I am today. I obviously know that I lived as a male back then, but it's only when I focus on the specifics of my memories that I remember the male things, and when I do it almost seems like they are the memories of a different person all together.
I don't think I would describe myself as "born in the wrong body", but I might use it to help someone understand who's having a hard time.
I have a hard time describing things. I'd probably just end up saying "i'm transgender" and then just explain that there's more to me than meets the eye. Some people will think that it's something you're making up, or that you want to be this way. I just say "gay people don't learn to be straight... they're born with it. I was born like this, and all I can do is try to make it right"
Born in the wrong body just seems like... there was a switch at birth and that there's something wrong with me. I don't want to give people an impression that I can be fixed to being "normal" again.
For myself I feel that surgery will not be real for me until its possible. Until all of the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed. Which at the moment seems to be to be several million light years away. Surgery is a good fairy tale for me now. I have finally gotten serious about looking at the possibility of hormones, but it looks like I chose the wrong insurance company for Medicare B because all of the councilors that advertise that they work with transgender issues around me do not take my insurance, if they take any insurance. In fact none of the councilors take it at all. Planned Parenthood looks like an option here. So the door seems to be closed until I pick my insurance company in November again.
I guess I don't know if I am in the wrong body or not, but mine is not female enough. I have no breasts. And as for my penis, I wish it would just go away, nothing personal. I would also like to have more of effeminate shape and bearing. Not that I am all macho male. Never have been. I have gone transgender female on Facebook to everyone who is still aware of my existence. My grown up family, my students, and all my old friends. Hey I am 65 life is precarious anyway.
So wrong body or just male characteristics out way female characteristics and I want to turn the tables as much as I can. I have beget enough children so procreation is not an issue. If it were I could just have my sperm saved. And at sixty five who wants more kids anyway. My penis is totally unnecessary for my sexual pleasure. It should stay permanently tucked in where it is anyway. Wrong body???? Its the only one I have. But it needs to be more effeminate and less male. I need to be ruled more by estrogen. I guess its more about reshaping my body. But because I am 65 and not 13 the reshaping will be limited.
What I can reshape is my appearance making it more female than male. I can be emotionally effeminate and can assert my femininity. I can let be known that I am a transgender female and wish to be treated as a woman. I can be myself. Is my body wrong, or just too masculine??? The only thing I can do is be one of the grannies and let the rest of the world just deal with it. Risky, at 65 life is risky. I need to let myself be and just become.
Wrong body?????? Where's my lip stick? I can powder my nose in public and fix my make up. I can giggle and visit with the granny sitting beside me at the bus stop. I can just be more effeminate. And wait for the day I can take hormones. Because when I can take hormones, then I will know if I want to. When I am sitting in the wheel chair waiting for surgery, then I will know if that is what I really want. Only then will these options be real for me.
May be its too easy for me to live in a fantasy world or maybe I am too much of a woman to let having a masculine body make me less of a female. Or maybe its just what my paradigm of life is? I am who I am. Does my body really matter? Well it needs to be more effeminate than masculine, that's for sure.
Katelyn and group,
If there is anything i have learned in my life as a genetic man it is that men have been stereotyped as much as other people on this earth. The one stereotype that is the most dangerous is this wide-spread belief that men are all perverts, predators, abusers, and so on. I have observed repeatedly on the street that two women who are strangers to each other can stop and give each other a friendly wave and smile, then become friends after making casual talk. If a man does this, everyone wants to summon emergency help or grab for their pepper spray, or they have something ignorant and judgmental to say in their attempt to ward off that man who may not want anything more than to be neighborly.
The boogey man, stranger danger syndrome is alive and well in society despite the well placed fact even by statistical showing that it is the person you already know who is going to be that "boogey man".
YOU are just a person who is trying to live the life that you always knew you should have been living, and are only pursuing happiness as you have the right to do. If you are convinced, and others aren't, then they are misinformed and it isn't in your control...just be happy being you and I know I will support you.
You know you are a woman, it's just that the world has yet to realise that some men have vaginas and some women have penises. You, like the rest of us are just ahead of the curve.
Karen.