What is an androgynous appearance? What are some distinctions?
Quote from: jasper3 on June 22, 2012, 10:04:35 AM
What is an androgynous appearance? What are some distinctions?
When someone presents some way other than totally male or totally female.
Some people adopt dress and hairstyle that makes it hard to tell their gender. Other people mix traditionally male and traditionally female appearance, like a masculine business suit with painted fingernails.
So is it merely clothing or bodily as well?
Quote from: jasper3 on June 22, 2012, 10:48:39 AM
So is it merely clothing or bodily as well?
Definitely body also. A lot of FTAs get cosmetic breast reduction, for example.
I feel kind of guilty for posting this, I'm curious but I mainly ask this for questions for a new character I'm making in a book. But I'm also, still, curious and open.
I tried going on google for androgynous bodies but only models, nothing "real" and "natural" so I figured I'd ask true people, for real information.
If you want to see in pictures a type of androgeny, look over some of the recent posts by one of our members, VannaSiamese.
Vanna is a very interesting person, who has experienced much in their journey from MtFtA.
I feel weird for asking this as well, but what are some pronouns to use??
I see "zhe, ze, shim, zhim, their, they, person (though not technically a pronoun), s/he, (s)he, he/she, him/her, his/hers" and countless others.
Oh! I've seen VannaSiamese's pictures. I think it was some thread but I forgot, lol.
Quote from: jasper3 on June 22, 2012, 02:29:49 PM
I feel weird for asking this as well, but what are some pronouns to use??
I see "zhe, ze, shim, zhim, their, they, person (though not technically a pronoun), s/he, (s)he, he/she, him/her, his/hers" and countless others.
There is a lot of discussion about this, and several threads address these issues.
As I am bi-gendered, and somewhat genderfluid, I am not offended by pronouns - but that's just me.
If you encounter an androgyne and are unsure of what to do, just ask, "How should I address you?" They will understand, and in my case, appreciate it.
Androgynous appearance also doesn't necessarily mean that person is an androgyne. As far as I know my sister is cis and she's been rocking the androgynous look since high school. She would probably be mad at me if I directed complete strangers to pictures of her though.
As for pronouns, there are many ways to be non-binary, so it's best to ask individuals. I'm genderfluid and, although being called "he" makes me feel ridiculously happy when I'm a guy, only one person has ever called me that in RL.
I have two characters in this book that are extremely confusing to me (I guess that is what makes them do appealing to me?) but one is a true hermaphrodite (like in your avatar, Jamie lol, the god/dess Hermaphrodite) and one is an androgynous faerie. The problem is: I do not know how to, for one, draw their bodies, and secondly, I don't know how to have other characters address them.
And the faerie is supposed to be a prince or princess and the hermaphrodite is a slave.
What kind of faerie?
Quote from: jasper3 on June 22, 2012, 02:33:04 PM
Oh! I've seen VannaSiamese's pictures. I think it was some thread but I forgot, lol.
If you click on the "screen name" you will call up a member's profile. Below the avatar you will find a button "Show posts."
Click on that and you will be able to see the past posts.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-snc6%2F283685_274756605965349_1203489132_n.jpg%3Fdl%3D1&hash=35a8a2a70cfd491faafaa43b61eebfc1953b253f)
A drawing of it so far.
and here's a little default description:
Full name: Faerie Princess Adélaïde Petit
Age: 13
Height: 33 cm
Weight: 2 kg
Personality: mischievous, playful, kind
Likes: playing pranks, embarrassing Aurelius by touching herself, driving Aurelius mad
Dislikes: people ruining her pranks, Aurelius making fun of her deformed wing
Talents/skills: dancing and singing
Quote from: jasper3 on June 22, 2012, 02:51:08 PM
I have two characters in this book that are extremely confusing to me (I guess that is what makes them do appealing to me?) but one is a true hermaphrodite (like in your avatar, Jamie lol, the god/dess Hermaphrodite) and one is an androgynous faerie. The problem is: I do not know how to, for one, draw their bodies, and secondly, I don't know how to have other characters address them.
And the faerie is supposed to be a prince or princess and the hermaphrodite is a slave.
Hermaphroditus
Oh, in class, my teacher simply said Hermaphrodite (-us usually denotes masculinity, yes? And -ia, -a, -e, -i denotes femininity.)
Oh, I just looked it up, I stand corrected. :)
Quote from: jasper3 on June 22, 2012, 03:18:11 PM
Oh, I just looked it up, I stand corrected. :)
We androgynes know these things.
The term "hermaphrodite" (derived from Hermaphroditus) is largely disused now.
It's intersexed or sexually ambiguous now, isn't it?
Yeah, the term is intersex when it's applicable to humans.
Technically, the term hermaphrodite is still used for organisms that actually are hermaphrodites (can reproduce as either the male or the female- like flowers). That isn't possible in humans.
Actually, I was reading about True Hermaphrodites with full or partial sexually mature sex organs (ovaries and/or testicles). Though it is very, very rare. And those that ARE hermaphrodites (intersexed) may not be True Hermaphrodites. A True Hermaphrodite (as such I am making in my book) has a phalloclitoris and a separated labioscrotum (with or without testicals or ovaries) with a vaginal opening. And the physical appearance resembles male and/or female.
Quote from: jasper3 on June 22, 2012, 04:33:51 PM
Actually, I was reading about True Hermaphrodites with full or partial sexually mature sex organs (ovaries and/or testicles).
And both sets of organs are fully functioning?
I said partially or fully.
And I don't know if they have both sets, if the uterus is included but if the ovaries and testicles are mature and fully operating, then eggs and sperm would be made.
Though, these are mostly theories by professionals and inferences by others, since True Hermaphrodites are so rare.
That's odd because last I read, it was impossible for a human being to be capable of both fathering and mothering a child (not being both for the same child, obviously, but like flowers or worms).
Without a uterus, I don't think there can be any mothering, only production of eggs.
That is correct.
Quote from: jasper3 on June 22, 2012, 03:53:38 PM
It's intersexed or sexually ambiguous now, isn't it?
Yes. Those terms recognize a wider variety of conditions.
And the medical science has grown as well.
So back on topic, what are some stereotypical attributes pertaining specifically to being androgynous? Such as shoulder-hip ratio and angularity of the face along with how feminine it should be?
Any advice in order to make a naturally (androgynous) beautiful prince/princess?
For those characters? Or in general?
For Hermaphroditus, google images is your friend. Looking at the pictures, it looks like s/he has small breasts, a small penis, and wider hips.
For the faerie, it depends on what kind of faerie s/he is and what the rules of that fictional world are. For example, dwarfs in Discworld all look male (including beards). On the other hand, races that are based on the Norse light elves tend to be tall, willowy, and effeminate. The twyleth teg are similar. So it really depends on what kind of faerie s/he is.
In general, there's a thread floating around here somewhere about what kinds of bodies people want if they could have any they wanted.
I have the body for the hermaphrodite lol. Still subject to change though. These are just drafts.
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This is the faerie so far. There's no actual type I guess, he-she is just a prince or princess of the forest who plays pranks on the people of a close by castle and is captured by a demon prince (Aurelius if you read the short description I gave) and just a playful, cute person
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-snc6%2F283685_274756605965349_1203489132_n.jpg%3Fdl%3D1&hash=35a8a2a70cfd491faafaa43b61eebfc1953b253f)
And on google images for androgynous bodies, it's just ehhh... I don't like models because they show what most people can't be, I want to make a real body, unporportional, unpopular, maybe slightly weird, but still being beautiful. Lol.
Quote from: jasper3 on June 23, 2012, 08:45:10 AM
who plays pranks on the people ... and just a playful, cute person
Ah! In that case, I'd suggest a puckish or Peter Pan-like look. In other words, child-like and boyish or tomboyish (but unable to tell which). S/he would probably be on the small side with a flat enough chest that any sign of breasts would be hidden by a shirt (think Ed from Cowboy Bebop). S/he would probably have a wide grin. It's archetypical, but many things in mythology are.
Or s/he could be like many other tricksters and be a shapeshifter (ex: Loki) except s/he wouldn't actually say what sex her "true form" is (if s/he has one) and would switch back and forth depending on how s/he feels. But that might get confusing to draw.
Ok the story is about the prince (Aurelius) being a homophobe and transphobe, etc. He threatens the hermaphrodite slave and tries killing it but his father (the king obviously) wont let him hurt the slave (love story? Seeing what's in the heart, not the body) and the prince, angry and hateful because there's (what he calls) a freak in the castle and it is allowed to live, runs to the forest and is tricked by evil, flesh eating pixies (smaller and meaner than Faeries) and the faerie prince/princess saves him and starts to hang around the prince and they become friends, etc, etc, by the end of the story, the king dies, the prince talks the hermaphrodite slave into killing itself for the sake of the king and he finds out the slave was actually his half brother but became a slave (metaphor for a second class citizen, sort of like blacks were in America even after they were considered freemen, they were still hated and abused) because he was different.
Well somewhere in the story, the prince marries the faerie princess, but because he's only like 12 in the story, he doesn't see him or her naked (so he doesn't know anything about it being either a boy or girl) and he finds out the faerie was actually a boy who just liked wearing girlish things and had a high voice and was just playful and cute lol (btw I actually was basing the faerie on Ed but I wanted it to go the other way around. People thought ed was a boy but her father reveals Ed is a girl)
*Warning: spoiler for Let The Right One In*
Reminds me of Eli except not a vampire and more playful. For most of the book, he's thought to be a girl and, in the movie, they just hint that he's actually a boy (and he's played by a girl). He's also twelve.
Really?
What movie and book?
...oh... I just read the beginning lol
Let tue right one in
Oops. Sorry. Let The Right One In.
Wiki... Oh that's why I never heard of it, it's Swedish Lol
"An English-language film adaptation (based on the original Swedish screenplay and novel), directed by Matt Reeves, was released on October 1, 2010, titled Let Me In, which was also well received by critics."
In the commercial for let me in, it was about the devil, not a vampire? And it was mostly about an elevator, right?
"Two weeks earlier, Owen (Kodi Smit-McPhee) is an unhappy and lonely 12-year-old boy who is neglected by his divorcing parents and continually harassed at school by bullies."
Let Me In is about a vampire and is...er... loosely based on Let The Right One In, but they changed it too much and not just by making Abby a girl. I don't remember an elevator.
The original book has been translated into english and the movie has subtitles. If you're going to check it out, check out one or both of those.
I like original movies even if they have subtitles like the girl with the dragon tattoo
I'll check it out whenever I get my laptop back :)
BTW, if Peter Pan comes around again (the musical). This is a great so-called children's musical about gender and gender roles. There is a lot of commentary re: gender in there. I don't think it is any coincidence in Peter Pan being cast as a female and is mostly played quite androgynously (instead of like a young boy).
BTW, Jasper, there is an intersex subforum.
--Jay Jay
I know I feel guilty for using even this for information to use in my book :icon_redface:
Changes! Changes! :D I've changed the faerie's name to a cute innocent unisex name! Modesté! Because Adélaïde is female (?)
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Yes, yes, I know it is pink and purple. I thought those colours were fanciful and mystical, since it's a faerie :)