Hi guys,
I am having some luck with this and thought it might help someone else. I do not pass (as anyone who sees my picture can tell) but I hate being misgendered with a passion. Anyway, I have found that these kinds of things help a lot:
I greet the cashier, server, etc. with a "hey". This signals them that I am not "being formal". (This might not be appropriate in all parts of the US or other countries, pick your local informal greeting). A "thanks man" (where appropriate) really helps too. I'm finding this pretty easy to do now.
If there is a place that I am going to be followed around like a furniture store or something, I (firmly) shake hands look them directly in the eye (which for an Aspie, who doesn't like eye contact, I think I am carrying out pretty well) and say "Please call me ____". I have actually gotten an apology. But I think it would be better to do this before I was actually addressed.
I can actually go for a day without being misgendered just by these. Maybe this will help some guy here.
--Jay Jay
I find if you walk with confidence people will likely to not misgender lol like a female doesnt walk with a swag or gives of a bad boy attitude, just those things appear differently in a female in my opinion. Even if you dont pass yet, it might be easier to walk with a purpose and a certain manly swag and people will get the hint. When i didnt pass, people got the idea of my gender anyway and greeted me as such. lol I'm an Aspie myself i cant look people in the eye, i try hard to but when i try to look in the eye my brain like shuts downs and i cant listen to the person, its hard :P I shake hands firmly and i look in the face but, i usually like to look at their mouth or their forehead! XD
Yes I do this to it helps me make sure I pass especially on the phone I'll be like "hey man I like to order a cheese pie" as an example, now that I'm on T I passes better on the phone and I always pass in person but that's nothing new. The whole passing on the phone also really depends on your confidence also a mono tone voice helps.
Quote from: JulianDMellark on July 19, 2012, 08:30:05 PM
I find if you walk with confidence people will likely to not misgender lol like a female doesnt walk with a swag or gives of a bad boy attitude, just those things appear differently in a female in my opinion. Even if you dont pass yet, it might be easier to walk with a purpose and a certain manly swag and people will get the hint. When i didnt pass, people got the idea of my gender anyway and greeted me as such. lol I'm an Aspie myself i cant look people in the eye, i try hard to but when i try to look in the eye my brain like shuts downs and i cant listen to the person, its hard :P I shake hands firmly and i look in the face but, i usually like to look at their mouth or their forehead! XD
You've never met the girls I know then, lol. And some of us physically can't walk with a swagger -- I can't due to partial paralysis. The slightest change in my gait over throws my balance and I either fall or am more prone to falling. (Plus I think swaggering, even when done by cisgender men, is silly as hell.) But, walking with confidence and like you are comfortable with who you are is definitely a key thing in my opinion. I think if you doubt yourself then you're going to be misgendered a lot more than someone who doesn't doubt their self.
I look people at the spot between the eyes or just above it because I can't stand eye contact (not an Aspie). I do shake hands firmly, but I was raised that way. I dislike "fishy" hand grips no matter if the person is male or female. It just makes a person seem weak to me.
I do agree with certain phrases being more appropriate and will someone be gendered correctly.
When I was trying to pass, I was decent even with my rather feminine gait as long as I kept my mouth shut. I used mostly subtle behaviors I've seen guys have, even trying that whole swagger thing [I gave up on that due to the reasons stated above].
I've a bit of a better of understanding of what I can do to at least confuse people now so when I get to where I can try to pass, I think I'll be better. Certain phrases and an overall confident demeanor are pretty much my best friends.
Fake it till you make it...? ;D
...I mean this in the most respectful, light-hearted way possible.
But really.
Confidence is key.
Swagger = confidence = whateveryouwantittobe = other people can't say a word to you, and if they do, they're wrong. The end. They don't know you.. but YOU do.
ke it til you make it, something like that! It doesn't always work. I'm guessing some of it does rest in the person who is serving you and what they are thinking and feeling. Last night I talked to guys in the ftm group. Some of them have lots of facial hair, and so on, and they still are getting called ma'am. I think sometimes people aren't actually paying attention. You get in a store where most people coming in are women, and the person is kind of on automatic.
Btw, I passed to someone walking by, I was floored actually he nodded at me. I don't think men nod to women, or at least it's not my experience. That did a lot for my ego, as I didn't expect it.
--Jay Jay
Man, I envy you for your social capacities.
I can't even look most of my friends in the eye when I talk to them, that's a big reason I'm always wearing those huge, dark sunglasses.
Quote from: N.Chaos on July 26, 2012, 03:02:33 PM
Man, I envy you for your social capacities.
I can't even look most of my friends in the eye when I talk to them, that's a big reason I'm always wearing those huge, dark sunglasses.
My social capacities!? Nah. I am older than you (pretty likely) and have learned a few things I guess. I am not sure that I could do this in my 20s.
I can do eye contact if I need to, but I do try to avoid it. I generally look to the mouth or nose. I feel in a situation like that I need to make eye contact to get the point across. I think people won't believe you are serious if you don't. So I'd say "Please call me _____" and no eye contact. I think that I would likely still be ma'amed. I also kind of like the apology too. It doesn't really cost them anything and it makes me feel good.
---Jay Jay
I agree that walking with confidence is one of the most important things to avoid being misgendered, even more than trying to affect some sort of manly swag.
I did read somewhere that men tend to walk with their center of balance in their groin, women in their breasts, so you can try that to attain somewhat of a manly "walk," but I don't think it's strictly necessary if you watch how people walk. Men do tend to take longer strides though, stand more sturdily, and a lot of men walk a bit differently compared to women, who tend to walk straight like they're trying to keep their feet on the sides of some invisible line, which adds to the hip sway.
I have less trouble passing to strangers even when I'm not binding, courtesy of my extremely boyish face (which basically lets me pass as a, uhhhh, 12-16 y.o. guy, and people are often inattentive enough they sir me without looking at my chest), but I think I have more trouble in social situations when I have to open my mouth ... long story short, I'm so polite people tend to ID me as female. Not the worst situation to be in though, so I guess I shouldn't be complaining.
I think it has to do with confidence mostly. I'm pre-T and I have a round face, but I guess pretty manly eyebrows but anyway, I get labeled as sir and mr, as a male basically.
Every time I'm about to leave my house I just think to myself, I am a man. I am a man. I know I'm a man and it doesn't matter what happens when I leave this house.
I guess it's just that internal vibe, if you believe that sort of thing.
At a certain age, all that might be true. I am really just trying to keep my sanity by not being ma'amed 30 times a day. It just eats at me. If you act actually a bit aggressive people will be less likely to call you ma'am even if you look like it. I think if you take actually a very informal tone, some younger people just kind of take you for who you are. Maybe they think I am a butch who does not like being treated like a typical female, or whatever.
I wouldn't say I look like I ma'am. (As I always say under my breath, "do I look like a ma'am to you"?) But after a certain age, you can be a much younger guy who has no beard. That's why some of you pass but as a younger age guy. When you get older, you will no longer pass as a young guy. I have only passed for brief moments. For instance, I walked into a baskin robbins, and the guy says "Can I help you sir?" He didn't go "I mean ma'am" but afterwards ended saying "thank you ma'am". So at best I have passed for only seconds.
Aside from being whatever age I am. (I'm in the closet.) I am 5'1" and with scrawny arms and narrow shoulders. My face is rather androgynous though.
However, I think if some of you guys would try some things I do, it might help more in the way of passing.
I hope you all understand my points. I am thinking they might not be clear as it is 3 AM. LOL.
--Jay Jay
I go out of my way to talk with strangers, mostly with small comments (for example: "That movie is hilarious." while shopping, etc.) Older women, guys of all ages, sexy ladies :) And I feel it helps me pass. I told a random woman with kids at Target today about my nephew being born soon and she asked if I was excited to be an Uncle, I told her I was and I am! Just have to inform my family that I'm not an Aunt tho.. :/
Quote from: KyleXX on July 27, 2012, 08:22:30 AM
I go out of my way to talk with strangers, mostly with small comments (for example: "That movie is hilarious." while shopping, etc.) Older women, guys of all ages, sexy ladies :) And I feel it helps me pass. I told a random woman with kids at Target today about my nephew being born soon and she asked if I was excited to be an Uncle, I told her I was and I am! Just have to inform my family that I'm not an Aunt tho.. :/
This is interesting. I think many people feel that would be a female trait (talking to strangers). I know for some people they would only pass if they keep their mouth shut due to their voice.
I could probably get out a "OK" or "plastic" in an octave lower, but of course that wouldn't help me much.
--Jay Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on July 27, 2012, 12:33:17 PM
This is interesting. I think many people feel that would be a female trait (talking to strangers). I know for some people they would only pass if they keep their mouth shut due to their voice.
I could probably get out a "OK" or "plastic" in an octave lower, but of course that wouldn't help me much.
--Jay Jay
I actually would keep my mouth shut when I used to present as female. Talking to people is actually something my brother brought up to me because he always has mini-conversations with store clerks. I guess I forgot that a lot of trans* guys have trouble with their voices pre-t. I lower my already deep voice and pass fine. Easy passing is actually the biggest struggle I've faced on my journey, though. The lack of struggle, not needing to fight for validation as male. Makes me wonder if I'm just wanting making things easier for myself in ultra-conservative so cal. But it's a year after I started questioning, and it now makes me sick to look at my naked body in the mirror. Confusion is my life. Sorry for going off topic..