this a vent post,
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I just got alot of things on my mind..
So, I got vacation and its like very hot outside, nice weather 8)..
and I am very happy to go around in tshirt after surgery But I still dont feel all confortable going off without my shirt..
So.. its been half a year since my surgery of keyhole. and today I was out trying clothes with an old friend, and he asked like "so your doing any surgery soon, your gonna make some more right?" and im like.. "hm.. well IDK"
his a very good friend of mine but I dont feel like doing any surgery soon even thought I know I might have to do the hysterectomy because of cancer risk in my famely. (but didnt want to talk about that)
so I was like dressing off because we didnt feel like standing in lines for just changing 2 shirts..
and he pointed that my chest still look kinda.. noticeable not as male.. or more like in the line with "you could see I had surgery from my female past" he would point it out.
I do have my big swellings still, and like you can see they took away my breast tissue if I lift my arms and so..
It kinda make me sad, I really want a just normal guy shape. if I take photos of myself and im on a distance of with like a web camera people go like "wow you look 100% like a guy your chest are so male" but I know if people see me In real life, a little closer they notice I dont get the cis-chest.
I got told its probably been because have been torturating my body from a young age with age bandage so I had to buld up muslces and so in the area with training (which I also do, and its been better) I started getting sensation, and some of my skin, from where I had bandage got off and I got smooth more normal skin to touch, + some muslces in those areas I didnt had before (probably because of training).
But its still as I decribe above and its been over a half year ago, on distance you wont see it but closeby like 1-3 meters you can.
I get it checked for some months ago and the doctor said it would be fine as long I didnt work too hard, (so im told to train but not too much?)
meanwhile I got another doctor (since my last one refused to help me) and I though maybe he could look at it, But I am honestly alittle nervous, I got told he is transfriendly and I shouldn't be worried, But by instance I came across a homepage where I saw he was critizised for diffrent things.. (didnt mention what) in where people had complained. I try relax myself that it might be small things, or maybe some people had just been annoyed cause he was helping transgender folks, I know a couple of doctors doing so had got into troubles, I know thats why many doctors also refused to help trans peoples + he wasnt the only one there so maybe it was just a couple of people having bad experience because they didnt like him? or I really dont know. they sounded very nice when I spoke to them and I was told they where nice, But it still makes me slightly nervous, I only talked to the secretary so I dont know him.
another thing..
So, I got to see something ells who is called cool sculpturing, its generally about freezing fat away but not as in being overweight but only as small places, like when your normal weight but just wanna get rid of some small areas of fat. its kinda expensive but not, very expensive here compared to when I was on vacation and saw it for the first time.
I do wonder if my swelling in fact is not swelling but fat and I dont have any fat in the rest of my cheast of of my bandage years?, and if I just gain that away my cheast, and make sure to train my mucles equally it will not be bumpy anymore?
I wondered
So I want go to a apointment talk to a doctor about this, But I think they probably never done such things on transgenders, and I dont know if it works either I heard it to be expensive and work on regular folks, But my situation isnt like regular people...
right now I am not really sure what to do ecaxtly.
I got a apointment next monday to have a talk about it, but I really has no idea if it to work or not.
the best solution would be to go back to german to talk to the doctor who made my surgery and ask if it was normal or if I would need extra threatment and maybe pay the hospital for doing it,
back then he said I might could need some extra threatment after the surgery, but I could just talk to my doctors in my country if things got complicated and they could help me out,
but daim.. its so complicated with doctors here :-\.. I am not actually sure who want to help me or not or if I just should accept my cheast isnt "perfect"
its really hard to know whats best for my cheast for the moment so I must just try and see if things get better or worse.
Would it be possible to take some photos and email them to the doctor who did your surgery asking what you should do? I'm sure they'd understand that it's expensive to travel just to get advice and you could explain that it's very difficult to find doctors that deal with trans patients in your country. Without seeing your chest it's quite hard to understand what you mean, but I've not had surgery so I don't know what's "normal" in the recovery process.
Quote from: AlecSky on July 25, 2012, 05:07:30 PM
Would it be possible to take some photos and email them to the doctor who did your surgery asking what you should do? I'm sure they'd understand that it's expensive to travel just to get advice and you could explain that it's very difficult to find doctors that deal with trans patients in your country. Without seeing your chest it's quite hard to understand what you mean, but I've not had surgery so I don't know what's "normal" in the recovery process.
yeah I know, but even with pictures its kinda hard because I dont feel you really see it on the pictures I take with my camera, Only like.. when you see it for real (maybe its the lightning or something I dont know, or the fact that I move around so there is sure positions where you see it alot and some where you really dont see it, so very hard to tell)
I did take a picture for it for this old threath "upper cheast after top surgery" I posted for 100 years ago:
http://postimage.org/image/5h8cc7lyz/b3953b3d/ (http://postimage.org/image/5h8cc7lyz/b3953b3d/) <---- picture you see the its a big bigger on the top and on the bottom is not, I am not sure if its swelling, or fat or muscle, I think its a mix..
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,121492.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,121492.0.html) <-- original threat
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that's actually a very good Idea, I dont know why I didn't thought of this.
My father and I got send some pictures to the doctor months ago my surgery, he didnt answer back but I guess I could contact him. as we talked to him back then he kinda knew my situationons since he had many patients from my area and so. I guess I could mention it for my dad, He is better at german than me.
Thanks for the advice.. ;)
Could you post a full picture of you whole chest? It's hard to tell what's going on in that picture.
I remember that thread now. I don't know how well the rest of you passes, but looking at that photo I'd not think that it was a female chest or a chest that had once been female. I might take a second look at it and think that maybe you had a tumour or something, but I'd not think that it was female. I'm not sure if that makes you feel any better about it or not.
If you do try to talk to your doctor about it let us know how things work out.
Andy: hmm this is some I took just now, I am flexing my muscles in picture nr 243, just to show how it looks when I flex it.
http://postimage.org/gallery/sx0mb5i/6beef635/ (http://postimage.org/gallery/sx0mb5i/6beef635/)
http://postimage.org/gallery/tyqup7g/f488cf23/ (http://postimage.org/gallery/tyqup7g/f488cf23/)
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Alecsky
I would say I pass okay. My face is rather femenine or androgyne, if people only see my face and cant see from my cheat if I am male or female and im wearing something rather femenine that day, then they can missgender me, But beside that my voice and so manly makes me pass.
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yes, I will writte an update on how things go when I get things figured out.
I think your chest looks fine. I guess it could look better if you build up your pecs a little. Your "friend" is just being a dick.
I had a similar procedure for my chest surgery, and your pictures totally make sense visually for being results of a periaureolar (a form of "keyhole") about 6 months out. The thing about this procedure is that the recovery is very different than for double incision.
Surgeons doing DI have much more of an ability to "contour" the results, leaving some tissue in (non trans males have breast tissue, remember, in addition to pectoral muscles). With a DI, it's also common to resize and relocate the nipples. This makes them smaller, especially in the areola (the dark part around the part that stiicks up), and often making the nipple itself smaller and less prominent. They would be grafted back on in a location that is often higher on the chest and perhaps a bit wider apart than they had been previously.
So for us peri guys, our chests often start out (post-op) very flat looking. In one of the left side pictures, a muscle is coming across your shoulder higher up, and then there is a lower flat place under it where breast tissue had been. You can target specific muscles to build up what's there.
If you do choose to go somewhere for a revision, I would say to not return to the dr who did your original surgery - not because he did a bad job (he did a decent version of a peri), but because from the looks of nipple placement, you were probably more of a borderline case between a peri and a DI. If you did a lot of binding, that would explain it. If you decide to get a revision, you might be more looking for a nipple resizing and perhaps a bit of a "lift," visual-height-wise on the chest. But it's hard to tell from the pictures -in one or two, the nipple height seems "better" than in others. By "better" I mean that the visual placement of nipples seems to be more in keeping with proportions of nontrans male chests.
However, I have always understood that you should wait at least a year after getting a peri, before considering any revisions. The chest is still settling down, and more importantly, you are still in early stages of exercising and simply living with your chest, unbound. As you build up muscle, the visual placement of the nipples will shift almost certainly upwards. From the more recent shots, I think you might not need a revision at all, with a bit of working out. Inexpensive dumb bells, or even water jugs or other home made equipment, could do the trick. Then, give it another 6 months or a year.
Finally: an issue with peris is also that there can be adhesions - interior scar tissue - which might make "dents" or places where muscle growth is less easy because of the way things healed. I can't tell from pics if you have that (it doesn't look like it) but if so, that is something a dr can release as an office procedure.
Oh, and finally finally - your 'friend' is an oaf. Tell them your chest isn't done yet, because it isn't, and to keep their opinions to themself.
Am I missing something?? You look fine. Perhaps you're self-conscious. You might feel better to build up your pecs as Andy says.
Sorry but your "friend" is an idiot.
--Jay Jay
I do train not everyday but I try to make alittle at least a couple of time during the week,
I been on a school with alot of training and right before leaving I asked one of the teacher if she could help me make a schedule for bulding up my cheast and shoulder muslces which I got and have followed with a couple of exercises at home.
But its very hard focusing only to train the lower part even when I try maybe I should consider a profesional trainer to help me out?.
I also try to run once in a while, to make recover my lungs(and my generally shape and fitness). I dont know if it will help on my cheast but I know I had very bad lungs some years ago, and its cause of binding so I think it at least cant get worse..
if anyone knows, exercises who are good for only pecs but not the upper cheast (as this one is already big enough) then thats cool.
Quote from: aleon515 on July 25, 2012, 10:15:03 PM
Am I missing something?? You look fine. Perhaps you're self-conscious.
im very self-conscious but its also because I really want the best for my chest, so I try to do as many things too make it heal well..ยจ
like
" fix everything I couldnt fix before"
Okay an update as I promised.
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I haven't contacted the doctor in German, However I will soon visit my dad, and since I dont see him that often, he might be able to jugde if it got better since last time with the old 3 mounth after surgery pictures, I got there.
Not to mention his the good one in germany and have made most of my contacts/translations.
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so anyway, I got to talk to 2 doctors..
One of them where about coolsculptering*
(if you dont know what it is read about it here)-- > http://www.coolsculpting.com/how-it-works/patient-faqs (http://www.coolsculpting.com/how-it-works/patient-faqs)
I wanted it on my hips, and then ask the doctor if the swelling on my chest where fat and she could remove that as well, But even though you dont need to be fat for the threatment I was still "too skinny" to do it, So she couldnt really help me cause even if it was fat I got, it would still be too little.
So later on I got to my new doctor who looked at it,
he said it was musles and it was normal on my upper chest but I had 2 little mussle on my lower half, and I couldnt do anything than just train and it would come, he said it could take a long time, and how long would depend on how much I trained.
Quote from: Natkat on July 27, 2012, 03:20:15 PM
I do train not everyday but I try to make alittle at least a couple of time during the week,
I been on a school with alot of training and right before leaving I asked one of the teacher if she could help me make a schedule for bulding up my cheast and shoulder muslces which I got and have followed with a couple of exercises at home.
But its very hard focusing only to train the lower part even when I try maybe I should consider a profesional trainer to help me out?.
I also try to run once in a while, to make recover my lungs(and my generally shape and fitness). I dont know if it will help on my cheast but I know I had very bad lungs some years ago, and its cause of binding so I think it at least cant get worse..
if anyone knows, exercises who are good for only pecs but not the upper cheast (as this one is already big enough) then thats cool.
Like others have said, I wouldn't consider getting any revisions done until more time has passed. Personally, to me, your chest looks fine. In one picture you can see an area in the top of the pectoral muscle that seems bigger, but its hard to tell whether its muscle or swelling. Swelling isn't uncommon, so if it persists see a trans-positive doctor and just have them draw out the excess fluid with a needle.
As far as your question about how to build up the rest of your pectoral muscle, the flat bench press and decline bench press are the best ways to increase muscle mass in the mid- and lower pectoral muscles. You can also do flat dumbbell chest press and decline dumbbell chest press in its place. Pushups and dumbbell chest flyes will help as well. Keep within a range of 8-12 repetitions (3 sets) to promote muscle hypertrophy (increase in size). But that shouldn't be the only thing you do in the gym ;)
Quote from: Berserk on August 03, 2012, 12:29:50 PM
Like others have said, I wouldn't consider getting any revisions done until more time has passed. Personally, to me, your chest looks fine. In one picture you can see an area in the top of the pectoral muscle that seems bigger, but its hard to tell whether its muscle or swelling. Swelling isn't uncommon, so if it persists see a trans-positive doctor and just have them draw out the excess fluid with a needle.
As far as your question about how to build up the rest of your pectoral muscle, the flat bench press and decline bench press are the best ways to increase muscle mass in the mid- and lower pectoral muscles. You can also do flat dumbbell chest press and decline dumbbell chest press in its place. Pushups and dumbbell chest flyes will help as well. Keep within a range of 8-12 repetitions (3 sets) to promote muscle hypertrophy (increase in size). But that shouldn't be the only thing you do in the gym ;)
yeah now my doctor told me it was mucles, so yeah must belive him after having a couple telling me so.
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thanks. I dont use gym very often (which is totally my fault cause I live so close too one thats I cant even put on a bad exuse)
I do make most of my traning at home, I have some weights and are manly able to make most of the things,
exept the deline thing.. I guess its kinda hard to do without a gym.
thanks for advice,
Quote from: Natkat on August 03, 2012, 08:44:55 PM
yeah now my doctor told me it was mucles, so yeah must belive him after having a couple telling me so.
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thanks. I dont use gym very often (which is totally my fault cause I live so close too one thats I cant even put on a bad exuse)
I do make most of my traning at home, I have some weights and are manly able to make most of the things,
exept the deline thing.. I guess its kinda hard to do without a gym.
thanks for advice,
Yeah, the decline press is difficult to do without a proper decline bench, but I've known some people who have managed by taking a regular flat bench and placing something like a step or whatnot underneath it. But you don't get the same elevation and there's some debate about how high the elevation needs to really hit your lower pecs.
If you have a gym near you, I'd really recommend going. Its well worth it...but then I'm a longtime gym junkie so perhaps a little biased :P
Quote from: Berserk on August 03, 2012, 09:21:37 PM
Yeah, the decline press is difficult to do without a proper decline bench, but I've known some people who have managed by taking a regular flat bench and placing something like a step or whatnot underneath it. But you don't get the same elevation and there's some debate about how high the elevation needs to really hit your lower pecs.
If you have a gym near you, I'd really recommend going. Its well worth it...but then I'm a longtime gym junkie so perhaps a little biased :P
hmm yeah I made some alternatives for a couple of work outs, like that.
I live very closeby to a gym, I bet the only reason I havent gone had been for worries, like my brother and his gf works out there, and he also invited me ower to train, (which is cool) im out to him but he still do the female pronouce thing, and I guess its alittle akward when im at the gym and wearing a tanktop with no boobs and so.
you know those kind of akward moments.
I cant blame him because we dont see each other that often, its just very akward in public.
but yes I should go its just me being a lazy ass.
You mentioned that you were looking for chest exercises, no? If you just google "chest workouts" you'll come up with a bunch of sites for body builders. If you just use soup cans instead of weights to start, most of the exercises should work without being to stressing on your chest. Just remember to work out your back too.