How do I start looking male and stop looking like a butch woman? I am pre-evrything and will be pre-everything for awhile.
Are you binding? How is your hair cut?
I bind, but my chest is too large to be able to get completely flat. My hair is cut short.
I honestly think its very very hard to say without a picture or general much details of your look,
but if your not able to hide your chest it can be very hard to pass.
Well, I did put a picture up in the "Do I Pass" thread and asked if anyone had any tips, but instead of giving me advice, people told me I passed. I know I don't. I get clocked as female even before I speak.
Quote from: Edge on August 09, 2012, 10:32:20 AM
Well, I did put a picture up in the "Do I Pass" thread and asked if anyone had any tips, but instead of giving me advice, people told me I passed. I know I don't. I get clocked as female even before I speak.
Its hard to tell in the pics, though, since one is at a distance and the other your face is hidden. The way your body shape looks at a distance I think it looks like you pass, but its difficult to give criticism without a closer shot of your face. Especially if that's what's making people mistaken you for female.
I posted a pic of my face earlier and was told my face passed too even though I had a girlier haircut. :laugh: Trust me. Neither my face or body pass. I know it's hard to tell with pics. That's why I'm not posting a pic here. I don't want to post a pic and get "you pass" responses when what I want is advice.
What did you guys do?
Sometimes the desire to be nice, polite and supportive can go too far.
Sometimes it is better to try to give positive critique and make helpful suggestions of things that can be changed.
Sometimes the negative comments have gone too far and the poster has gotten in trouble with other users and management.
All of this just to say, sometimes its hard to get an honest opinion about pictures.
Since I've seen you on webcam...I actually think you look pretty male. Your voice is a bit high though, which is something you can't do all that much about. You're also quite shy. imo those are the only two things that seem to hinder your passing.
Quote from: Edge on August 09, 2012, 11:10:10 AM
I posted a pic of my face earlier and was told my face passed too even though I had a girlier haircut. :laugh: Trust me. Neither my face or body pass. I know it's hard to tell with pics. That's why I'm not posting a pic here. I don't want to post a pic and get "you pass" responses when what I want is advice.
What did you guys do?
Ah, ok, I didn't know you'd posted one of your face. I just saw the two that you posted most recently in the Do I Pass thread.
In that case and since its apparently been hard to see in pics you've posted here, what do you think usually makes it hard for you to pass? Like before I was kind of like what you posted earlier, as far as my chest just never flattening enough with binding. And even when people would refer to me with male pronouns, if they got a better look at my chest they would suddenly be like "oh sorry" and switch pronouns on me.
So ugh...dunno what kind of suggestions I can give to hide your chest more. I found that wearing button up shirts open (rather than buttoned...for some reason anything that buttoned around my chest always left a little "ridge" where even if my chest wasn't fully visible you could still tell there was "something" there) helped to make my chest look flatter. Also, I also found that wearing clothes with print across the chest seemed to draw more attention to my chest, so I just started wearing plain shirts, or if I found design that didn't make my chest more obvious.
I think the number one thing to passing shouldn't always be related to the ultimate judging question you ask yourself when you look in the mirror "Do I look male today?" Instead I think it should be about your confidence in being male. Don't look at yourself with a constant judging sense, but instead look at yourself and say "I'm a guy and nobody has the same path as mine." Your confidence will not only help you, but it will be seen by others. If you give off the vibe as male you will be perceived as male.
Okay, I looked at the pics in the pass thread and you looked like you might pass in the second pic but your face was obscured. The first pic was iffy. But based on those, I'd say you're pretty close. I didn't see any problems with the binder.
Yeah I wear dark shirts with the binder mostly, so it obscures my chest a bit. I'll try the open thing. I'm working on the shyness. I'm going to force my self to full of bravado and self confidence at Pride, so I gotta practice. :D Thanks, you guys.
I think that in most cases if you pass pre-T, you are going to look very young. And if you are not young to begin with you probably won't pass. It's why I don't, i think. If anyone calls me "sir" or anything I think they are maybe not paying attention. LOL.
Frustrating though. I don't so much want to be seen as male as not wanting to be seen as female. Seems like I have not much choice on this.
--Jay Jay
I looked at your pics in the pass thread too and to be honest what I noticed most was the sandals... not sure if you wear birkenstocks often but unfortunately I think they give off that butch vibe, especially since as male you look a bit young to be wearing them. I know they're comfortable and all, just talking in terms of passing. I didn't see any issue with your chest, like if I was reading the rest of you as male I wouldn't look there and think "nope, not male". Not sure how you normally dress, but clothing can make a big difference. Having jeans that fit you well and don't emphasize curves is key. I think button downs over khaki pants would look good on you. I would avoid cargo shorts and baggy clothes in general though as they don't tend to help with passing if you're borderline. Just my .02 based on personal experience and observation... good luck.
Well, how do you walk and stand? Swinging hips is bad, unless you are pretending to be female. Standing with weight on one foot is feminine. Are you the person that moves out of everyone's way when you're on the sidewalk? I've noticed that it's mostly girls that do that. You can look up anything written by girls that says "why do guys do that?" to get a new stereotypically male habit.
Oh, and what state are your eyebrows in (I didn't look at your pic, people were saying it's hard to tell). I've noticed that the only thing most guys'll do is correct a unibrow.
the pic you posted has the camera right in your face so its hard to tell. Your body looks masculine. My advice is to have the least arched brows as possible and with some male facial complexion (beard/mustache shadow).
Im a mTf cd so im still male half the time. I frequently get mistaken as a butch cuz my small size( 5'4"), buzz cut hair, arched brows and clean shaved face. Im sure theres fTm techniques to add facial complexion without hrt. Also I know theres testosterone infused workout supplements if you guys haven't tried it already.
To me 99,99% of FTM pass and look perfecly, much better looking than biological males.
I've looked for your photos and you look perfect to me. Heck, I wish I had looked like you at that age.
If you want a joke advice (pretty please with a cherry on top don't kill me), try to wear a My Little Pony T-Shirt. I still haven't seen a woman wearing them... I can't believe the other day I ran out of gym shirts and had to go with the Pinkie Pie one.
Quote from: Apples on August 12, 2012, 05:13:57 PM
To me 99,99% of FTM pass and look perfecly, much better looking than biological males.
I've looked for your photos and you look perfect to me. Heck, I wish I had looked like you at that age.
If you want a joke advice (pretty please with a cherry on top don't kill me), try to wear a My Little Pony T-Shirt. I still haven't seen a woman wearing them... I can't believe the other day I ran out of gym shirts and had to go with the Pinkie Pie one.
i dont agree that 99.99% of ftm pass perfectly... Every person has different features to take account of. Ive noticed many ftm look much younger than their age because of their soft facial complexion which is normal without HRT. Im giving my criticism for improvement and dont mean to offend.
Take up space. Be more casual with your body. Don't be too tentative in speech or body language. Walk straight ahead, no hip sway. Swing your shoulders just a little when you walk. Don't walk as if you're wearing a binder--act as if you've got nothing on your chest. Perfect your deadpan. Go to a barber. Wear glasses made specifically for men.
I'm sure you've posted about this and I just forgot, but why is transition so far off for you? Are you still just sorting yourself out? I think a lot of androgynes/bigender folks have a much harder path when it comes to deciding about T.
I really don't know how useful it is to adopt mannerisms and all of that. But you asked for tips...
Quote from: Arch on August 12, 2012, 05:56:14 PM
I'm sure you've posted about this and I just forgot, but why is transition so far off for you? Are you still just sorting yourself out? I think a lot of androgynes/bigender folks have a much harder path when it comes to deciding about T.
I'm bigender. I(female) am afraid of being as dysphoric as I(male) am now.
It does help. Thanks.
I don't do anything to my eyebrows. They just grow as is. Unfortunately, they are naturally arched.
Finding pants is a pain in the butt. A lot of the pants I've tried on make my waist look more obvious than in women's pants. I keep looking for pants with baggier legs, but there aren't any in any of the stores I've looked (and I've looked in a lot).
Ok, I looked at your photos. Here are my suggestions;
1) get more masculine glasses.
2) Your face has the gentle curves of the female face, so folks must think you are either still in puberty if you are male, or you are female.
In high school, I wasn't even trying to pass - but as I wore "boy" clothes to my school, it was "young man" all the time.( Little did I know that would one day be important to me). Today at 40 + I couldn't pass without cross hormones. So you either are young enough over all to pass for a male of 16, or people think you are a girl. Have you though of hormones???
3) last bit, you look kind of questioning in your photo. The one thing most men have, that I believe ALL women should learn - not just ones who don't think/feel like women, is assertiveness of attitude. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've seen the look you have in your photo on a cis male. Even if man say "what do you think...? " they have a different expression. Which suggests to me, it might be your mannerisms/expressions.
I think you are close, just a tiny bit of tweaking.