Good morning. Another of those panic moments during the night. I started to think something like "In the end If I receive HRT, my testicles will end with a severe atrophy and will be nearly useless. Should I get rid of them like several people have done?"
The fact is that I never expected to hear this coming from myself. I know that I don't have any interest on a vagynoplasty, and if I wanted penetration sex anal would be enough for me. I had hopes of keeping a bit of my libido on working conditions, but now... From time to time I may see the hanging ones as "alien" parts, and I had never had a problem with them before. This is enough to scare me a lot. Here are my questions:
- Did you decide to have an orchi for any other reason than a future SRS?
- Keeping the testis after HRT can cause any kind of health complication?
- Is it still possible to attain some sort of orgasm after removing them or you will remain completely asexual after the procedure?
- Are there any negative sideffects of the procedure on the long run?
Really, my mind scares me more and more everyday.
In general there isn't a need for orchi before complete genital surgery because antiandrogens are cheaper up to a point of a couple years. The long term effects are mostly the same as in complete surgery and are mostly about bone density and some other things.
Keeping them around while working hormone therapy doesn't really matter as long as they are dormant. The brain is the biggest sexual organ, no arousal, no orgasm, nuts or nut-free.
Many surgeons prefer that we don't have an orchie before SRS so that they can se the skin to help in the procedure. After being on oestradiol for a while your testes will usually shrink as your testosterone drops. Then you go onto to anti-Androgens to keep the level low at the same time being on a combination of 'female' hormones. The combination and the doses are something to be discussed and decided by your endocrinologist. Endocrinologists who specialise in the area often have different points of view. Mine for example thinks progesterone is of no benefit to a woman my age but would be for a younger woman. This is another reason to go to experts.
An orchie is the ultimate anti androgen but as Flan said that the anti-AA drugs are quite cheap and you again need an endocrinologist to help make the decision. Some anti AA cause depression as a side effect (or can do), some can promote liver damage. These are reasons we are monitored by professionals. They may decide in a particular case that an orchie gives the best option. But it will always be your choice.
Sexual desire is mainly brain driven. I didn't get erections when I had testosterone in my system. I don't get them now that I don't. The thought of penetrative sex (with me penetrating) is distasteful. However I'm quite orgasmic, far more so than I was with functional boy bits. But again I think that emaphises that your brain is what drives sexual desire.
Guys need a'Foreplay for Dummies 101' ( :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:). It would be a best seller, every girl would buy a copy for their boyfriend.
Cindy
Quote from: Flan on August 10, 2012, 04:02:52 AM
In general there isn't a need for orchi before complete genital surgery because antiandrogens are cheaper up to a point of a couple years.
Sorry, can you clarify this? With time there is need of more antiandrogens? I though they could cause liver problems.
QuoteThe long term effects are mostly the same as in complete surgery and are mostly about bone density and some other things.
Bone density. So removing them could pose a risk of osteoporosis and another suplement would be neccesary?
QuoteKeeping them around while working hormone therapy doesn't really matter as long as they are dormant. The brain is the biggest sexual organ, no arousal, no orgasm, nuts or nut-free.
That's how my brain is working at a time (lost my sex drive long time ago and will only work when looking for something exciting). I think my doubt still Is If should have them removed after some time on HRT for safety reasons, or If should keep them. Now I don't like them very much, but it is an important decission.
Update: Also, I have read that I would help with further feminization, preventing more hair loss, etc.
As for foreplay, I'm quite good, if I don't have to blindly remove a bra. Sadly, it we don't get to the next stage I end with a major case of blue balls and not being able to walk properly for the next day.
Quote from: Apples on August 10, 2012, 04:41:49 AM
Sorry, can you clarify this? With time there is need of more antiandrogens? I though they could cause liver problems.
Bone density. So removing them could pose a risk of osteoporosis and another suplement would be neccesary?
That's how my brain is working at a time. I think my doubt still Is If should have them removed after some time on HRT for safety reasons, or If should keep them. Now I don't like them very much, but it is an important decission.
I've never heard of a safety issue regarding the testes. I've been on cyproterone acetate (AA) for 18 years. My liver function is normal. The danger is if you are on a high dose for many years, which I'm not. Osteoporosis is a risk if you have no sex hormone in your system. Simply make sure your estrogen levels are high enough.
Quote from: Apples on August 10, 2012, 04:41:49 AM
Sorry, can you clarify this? With time there is need of more antiandrogens? I though they could cause liver problems.
every drug can cause liver stress, it's just the degree of it. spiro is more likely to stress the kidneys than liver. once things are settled blood work wise there isn't a need to mess with things unless a health issues arises.
QuoteBone density. So removing them could pose a risk of osteoporosis and another suplement would be neccesary?
yes (which continued hormone therapy works for, calcium supplements alone aren't useful enough)
I had mine because of the liver issue and I just wanted them gone. Even if I never get SRS at least those factories are no longer part of my body
I am debating the whole idea of SRS due to no free dates for surgery before Uni starts again next year. I have given it a lot of thought, and will continue to do so, and am possibly coming to the conclusion that I will decide on an Orchiectomy only, for a variety of reasons.
Starting from the less personally important reasons, if a potential partner is going to be put off by my physical form, then they are probably going to be put off by my being TS anyway.
If I can move freely in society and be accepted 100% as a woman, then what is in my knickers is not really relevant to others.
There are already half the numbers of nerve endings there as a natal clitoris, and any reduction in size during SRS will reduce the number of nerves proportionally. As I have been able to experience full-body female orgasms for quite a few years now due to getting in touch with my body though meditation, the form of my genitalia is irrelevant to pleasure as I am sensitive all over.
Although I am not interested in penetrative sex myself, it is possible any female partner may be, so the ability to satisfy her from time to time, with performance enhancing drugs, if need be, would be nice.
Just a few ideas for discussion.
Karen.
Quote from: Apples on August 10, 2012, 02:22:06 AM
Good morning. Another of those panic moments during the night. I started to think something like "In the end If I receive HRT, my testicles will end with a severe atrophy and will be nearly useless. Should I get rid of them like several people have done?"
The fact is that I never expected to hear this coming from myself. I know that I don't have any interest on a vagynoplasty, and if I wanted penetration sex anal would be enough for me. I had hopes of keeping a bit of my libido on working conditions, but now... From time to time I may see the hanging ones as "alien" parts, and I had never had a problem with them before. This is enough to scare me a lot. Here are my questions:
- Did you decide to have an orchi for any other reason than a future SRS?
- Keeping the testis after HRT can cause any kind of health complication?
- Is it still possible to attain some sort of orgasm after removing them or you will remain completely asexual after the procedure?
- Are there any negative sideffects of the procedure on the long run?
Really, my mind scares me more and more everyday.
slooooow down , if you have never had a problem with them till very recently that is a little worrying , i wouldnt be considering this for a while
Quote from: mementomori on August 11, 2012, 08:08:35 PM
slooooow down , if you have never had a problem with them till very recently that is a little worrying , i wouldnt be considering this for a while
Certainly, mind tends to get really obsessive with thes. It will better if find something to keep me occupied until the next therapist appointment.
If for whatever reason you have to go without HRT for any period of time (or if you flat out forget a dose or two here and there), at least you wont have to worry about your testosterone spiking. Plus I would imagine things get a little more "organized" in the undies. Plus I'm sure it'll be easier to balance your hormone levels. It also stops MPB in its tracks, for sure, permanently. And of course there is less stress on the body from taking less medications.
I plan on having SRS... No idea when because I'm not insured. Hopefully in a year when I pay off my car... However I want those poison producers gone for pretty much all reasons above. Add to that any time my testosterone levels are high, I can tell. My allergies kick up and I start getting canker sores. I used to get seasonal allergies EVERY spring. They were so bad I had sneeze fits that caused a rash on my upper lip. This year (my first spring on HRT), was the very first year I didn't since I hit puberty (the first time :D ). I seriously think I'm allergic to testosterone....
Nah, all of this came from a misunderstood info. At my current health level, I can keep them for a few years without having a lot of worries, until I decide if i want SRS or not (probably yes, but... It's going to take a long time to discover what is real and what is a denial barrier inside my head).
If everything went perfect I would need at least three years from starting HRT until SRS, One for HRT and therapy, and two more on a waiting line for the social security option (which includes BA). I know that it is too early, but I don't want to leave it for old age.
3 years seems reasonable. I had mine after 2.5 years of hrt. In case you should wonder I had FFS after 16 months of hrt and BA after 9 years.
Everything depends on how the therapist sees it fit. For me it is going to be slow. I am not risking to go full time before FFS (at least one year in androgynous mode before FFS), being Non-binary, the broken voice, a practically undiscovered sexual orientation... Unless HRT and therapy remove a lot of layers until we reach the "100% sure and no regrets", this could take a long time.
Heck, with this beard, voice and being forced to act manly until I can get a place of my own, I find rather hard to believe my own words.
Okay, I've been flamed for prattling on about my surgeon too much; and it's true... I just got the surgery and I think the man is a god. :) But in any case, the single biggest reason against getting an orchi is if you have NOT yet totally excluded Dr Suporn in thailand from your calculus. As you know, there are three ways for vaginoplasty: penile inversion, sigmoid colon, and basically the way dr suporn pioneered back in 2001 or something around there, the "nonpenile inversion". Which uses scrotal skin exclusively to create the neovagina to depths easily reaching seven inches. The penis is used only for labia, clit, and other surface features. Anyway, even electrolysis on the scrotum is frowned upon by suporn because of the scarring risk; he looked at my one centimeter central vasectomy scar of a decade past for a good five minutes with a frown... ultimately, he went ahead without worries, or complications thusfar.
SO, don't do orchi until you're 10000% sure you'll never choose dr suporn, because you wont get the best result from him if you do, and your scrotum shrinks over a year or two (which it will). Even the antiandrogens shrink things a lot....
Sorry to repeat myself if I did, and Good luck!
Better if you read this first, with my planning and calculations:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,125292.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,125292.0.html)
As I said, I can only pay one thing, FFS or SRS, so I don't have that much of a choice but Social security. I don't have opportunities for getting a better job ( I live on THAT country), transitioning means living on my own and that I won't be able to save more money. I'd need two more years to pay for a Suporn, and I don't want go that far. Even travelling is expensive for me. Anyways, my face and body is more important to me than what I have between my legs.
Prior to 2009 social security would give you up to 60.000€ for doing everything on your own, but after creating their own unit for GRS and BA free of charge, they stopped with the financial aid. They say that in a future they might even include FFS.
I cannot afford SRS unless I get lucky with the lottery. My problem is at work I have to use the mens lockerroom until I get unreversible surgery (orchi) then I can use the womens side. Also I am getting tired of those marbles causing headaches with not staying out of the way.
Quote from: Laura91 on September 02, 2012, 12:22:49 PMThe orchi was also covered by insurance.
Odd that mine covers SRS but not orchi, xD. Guess it is still oriented for binary... Still I wonder, why I am not afraid any more of SRS...
Quote from: GendrKweer on August 30, 2012, 07:23:33 AM
As you know, there are three ways for vaginoplasty: penile inversion, sigmoid colon, and basically the way dr suporn pioneered back in 2001 or something around there, the "nonpenile inversion". Which uses scrotal skin exclusively to create the neovagina to depths easily reaching seven inches. The penis is used only for labia, clit, and other surface features.
This seems totally weird to me because I have a good number of SRS post-op girlfriends who have shown me the results of their vaginoplasties. I have looked at more outer labia, inner labia and clitoral construction than I even care to think about. All of them were performed using the penile inversion method which is by far the most common method. I had an orchiectomy about ten years ago by a urologist in his office in Portland, Oregon. He used a laser knife and a single small incision and tied it back together with two very small dissolving stitches, elapsed time about 40 minutes beginning with a local anesthetic to completion. He did it in that manner to save scrotal skin as it most commonly is used most naturally as the labia majora. Several years later I had a pre-op consultation with Dr. Marcie Bowers, at the time I was more concerned about the atrophy of the penis due to my extended time already on estrogen. She said the the scrotal tissue available was more than sufficient and that the little thingy was good enough to create a nice vaginal canal. I never followed through but believe me when I say, it's ok to have an orchiectomy as you will no longer have to take anti-androgens and you're body will feminize a lot quicker. Meanwhile, I can't begin to imagine anyone trying to form a neovagina (vaginal canal) from scrotal tissue, it seems like a very backwards approach! I'm not disputing your claim and I'm glad you had good results!
Quote from: Shantel on September 02, 2012, 01:22:06 PM
This seems totally weird to me because I have a good number of SRS post-op girlfriends who have shown me the results of their vaginoplasties. I have looked at more outer labia, inner labia and clitoral construction than I even care to think about. All of them were performed using the penile inversion method which is by far the most common method. I had an orchiectomy about ten years ago by a urologist in his office in Portland, Oregon. He used a laser knife and a single small incision and tied it back together with two very small dissolving stitches, elapsed time about 40 minutes beginning with a local anesthetic to completion. He did it in that manner to save scrotal skin as it most commonly is used most naturally as the labia majora. Several years later I had a pre-op consultation with Dr. Marcie Bowers, at the time I was more concerned about the atrophy of the penis due to my extended time already on estrogen. She said the the scrotal tissue available was more than sufficient and that the little thingy was good enough to create a nice vaginal canal. I never followed through but believe me when I say, it's ok to have an orchiectomy as you will no longer have to take anti-androgens and you're body will feminize a lot quicker. Meanwhile, I can't begin to imagine anyone trying to form a neovagina (vaginal canal) from scrotal tissue, it seems like a very backwards approach! I'm not disputing your claim and I'm glad you had good results!
Dr Sanguan Kunaporn also uses scrotal skin for the 'lining' of vj-channel in his "non-inversion" protocol. Though he does not enter the peritoneum, not going past the peritoneal reflection. His depth is 5" more likely 4 1/2" by doing this 'only'.
Scrotal skin is put in place during the 2nd op ( ~ 7 days post main-op), after all hair follicle have been removed. The scrotal skin is saved (refrigerated) from the first main-op, when creating vj-vestibule and introitus and from penile skin...
Just for added perspective, and it is what I had...
Axx
Quote from: Shantel on September 02, 2012, 01:22:06 PM
This seems totally weird to me because I have a good number of SRS post-op girlfriends who have shown me the results of their vaginoplasties. I have looked at more outer labia, inner labia and clitoral construction than I even care to think about. All of them were performed using the penile inversion method which is by far the most common method. I had an orchiectomy about ten years ago by a urologist in his office in Portland, Oregon. He used a laser knife and a single small incision and tied it back together with two very small dissolving stitches, elapsed time about 40 minutes beginning with a local anesthetic to completion. He did it in that manner to save scrotal skin as it most commonly is used most naturally as the labia majora. Several years later I had a pre-op consultation with Dr. Marcie Bowers, at the time I was more concerned about the atrophy of the penis due to my extended time already on estrogen. She said the the scrotal tissue available was more than sufficient and that the little thingy was good enough to create a nice vaginal canal. I never followed through but believe me when I say, it's ok to have an orchiectomy as you will no longer have to take anti-androgens and you're body will feminize a lot quicker. Meanwhile, I can't begin to imagine anyone trying to form a neovagina (vaginal canal) from scrotal tissue, it seems like a very backwards approach! I'm not disputing your claim and I'm glad you had good results!
I remember one lass that after the orchiectomy she used to strech the scrotal tissue to prevent the atrophy. Still, I remember hearing there was like two years between orchi and the atrophy being noticeable.
But heck, I just want to start with the teraphy this month... C'mon, when are they gonna call?
"Meanwhile, I can't begin to imagine anyone trying to form a neovagina (vaginal canal) from scrotal tissue, it seems like a very backwards approach! I'm not disputing your claim and I'm glad you had good results!"
Yuppers, all scrote, seven inches depth, leaving a ton of material from the penis to make everything else. As a circumcised person of average length before hormones, and below average after a few years on them, with inversion I wouldn't have had 4 inches, which is a direct quote from dr chettawut who I also interviewed a few months before my surgery. Anyway, maybe some info for you on this:
http://www.supornclinic.com/Welcome.html (http://www.supornclinic.com/Welcome.html)
Born August 12, 2012? You are a newborn for sure, glad you had a nice outcome, kudos!
Let's keep in mind that some folks never go beyond an orchiectomy for a load of different reasons, so although many here feel that through SRS they have finally arrived, it doesn't hurt to refrain from discouraging others from going for an orchi as that may be as far as they will ever be able to go, and frankly they no longer qualify as male other than chromosomes. That in and of itself is a huge psychological relief and cuts down on the number and amounts of chemicals one has to run through their liver.
Aug 2, not 12, but I sure feel like a newborn, still learning to walk. :)
I wasn't encouraging surgery, just the act of trying to predict where you might be after a year or two or five, and keeping your options open. I'm all about keeping all doors open as long as possible; maybe I'm fickle that way!
Quote from: Bailey on September 06, 2012, 04:00:35 AM
I had mine to maintain my sanity.
There, I rest my case! ;)
Count me with Bailey and a lot of others on this one! :icon_clap:
Quote from: Laura91 on September 12, 2012, 11:18:40 AM
Oh screw Bailey that moronic hack! He and his ilk are a bunch of idiots.
Must be nice to have all the answers Laura!
For me it was a personal choice and a reality check, the reality was I would never have the $$ for full SRS ya sure my AA's were doing there job and the evil twins were effectively dead, in steps the personal choice, tucking with no sack is so natural and gives such a flat feminine look in all but the skimpyist panties well lets just say I'm a happy chick. Another plus I was born in Hawaii so a simple letter from my surgeon with the words " irreversible genital surgery " was enough with a name change court order to reissue my birth cert with female and the new name, so again happy chick all around doing the happy dance in heels of course LOL
I recall looking down and saying, "Bye fellas!" The doc asked, "Why did you say that?" My comment was, "Just saying goodbye to the hard drive for a lot of formerly bad male behavior!" I heard a low chuckle from the female nurse..... ;)
I don't want SRS, but I do really want an orchi :P
It's practical really, I don't want to keep taxing my liver for the rest of my life, and since I have other health conditions that might require me to take meds for the rest of my life, I just want to get rid of them.
Plus, you can get even better feminization after an orchi (or just get fat like cats :))
Reasons for having an orchiectomy aside from future SRS?
TO GET RID OF THAT NASTY MALE SEX DRIVE.. what else ???
Quote from: Amazon D on September 12, 2012, 06:46:57 PM
Reasons for having an orchiectomy aside from future SRS?
TO GET RID OF THAT NASTY MALE SEX DRIVE.. what else ???
This too, I can't imagine what it would be to live with that for YEARS?? From what my cis male friends tell me, they would have to masturbate at least once or twice a day...
:X
Quote from: Ave on September 12, 2012, 08:06:59 PM
This too, I can't imagine what it would be to live with that for YEARS?? From what my cis male friends tell me, they would have to masturbate at least once or twice a day...
:X
Interestingly I never really experienced this kind of crazy sex drive. Except for a few years in my teens I pretty much had near zero interest in seeking sex or in masturbating. What made me crazy was that when I was attracted to girls I just desperately wanted to be their friend and get to know them better which of course was either impossible on their part or completely negated any chance of a relationship. I guess you could say I had an overwhelming romantic drive but was stuck in a position where there was next to nothing that could relieve it. Incredibly frustrating, but in a way I also feel lucky.
Quote from: Crt.rnA on August 10, 2012, 02:22:06 AM
- Did you decide to have an orchi for any other reason than a future SRS?
- Keeping the testis after HRT can cause any kind of health complication?
- Is it still possible to attain some sort of orgasm after removing them or you will remain completely asexual after the procedure?
- Are there any negative sideffects of the procedure on the long run?
Yes, I did it in lieu of full SRS. I was not able to take hormones due to underlying medical conditions.
Don't know
Yes it is possible to get erections and dry orgasm. I now prefer them to the old ones.
Yes your scrotum and penis will shrink over time. Mine has shrunk quite a bit over the last ten years. You will also be subject to bone loss.
That being said it was the best thing I ever did. For the first time in my life I felt like everything was aligned. Congruent if you will. Its difficult feeling to describe. I just feel right.
Quote from: Christine on September 26, 2012, 08:15:08 PM
Yes, I did it in lieu of full SRS. I was not able to take hormones due to underlying medical conditions.
Don't know
Yes it is possible to get erections and dry orgasm. I now prefer them to the old ones.
Yes your scrotum and penis will shrink over time. Mine has shrunk quite a bit over the last ten years. You will also be subject to bone loss.
That being said it was the best thing I ever did. For the first time in my life I felt like everything was aligned. Congruent if you will. Its difficult feeling to describe. I just feel right.
Ditto that!
I was far too lazy to read the whole thread, so someone may have said this already. You can lower your hormone dosages after having an orchi.
Cause you need an entree?
sorry, couldn't resist.
I had forgotten I made this thread so long ago... Laughing at "I don't want SRS".
Well, I have my reason for an orchi now: My T is an actual issue. My blood tests revealed that I have a natural high level of T, and any disturbance such as weight gain, combining with another drug, etc... Puts it ouside the female range. It will be a minimum of two years before being ablet to afford SRS, and it's turning from annoyance to hell. It's hard to believe that even using cyproterone acetate I can still output massive ammounts of T.
scrotal atrophy is what worries me. Two girls already requiring a Graft with Chett. One had the orchi 6 months after the SRS and the other claimed to have been stretching the skin daily. So it looks like solving the T issue guarantees SRS complications. And yet, I'd do it.