I don't know if its me but as I generally view myself as a girl trying to be myself without loosing my job, family and what little meaningless life I have...
It can be very frustrating when I go to a mall or to any place that has security guards and they frisk you and the more uncomfortable I get the more they try to annoy me or upset me >:(.
The other day I had 3 of the male guards - at 3 different places - "accidentally" touch my bust/nipples with the metal detector thingy. 1 even laughed at my face and was like why am I so squeamish while he was doing it.
Sad part is since I still rely on my parents who would tolerate anything except me dressing up or looking like a girl so I have to go out looking like a guy same goes for my work place. If I loose both or either I loose my chances of being able to transition on what little money I earn...
So as long as I am going out as guy (almost anyways ;)) - I get frisked in public by male guards. which I really really don't like and I get very uncomfortable with people touching me.
The female guards are usually more friendlier with me - one even helped with the door while I was trying to carry and balance pile of documents and my pouch and my lunch box... and other things ... - which was very sweet of her - and God bless her for it.
although there was one lady who rude to me, who seemed to be a friend of a male guard who was rude to me (I lost my temper at yelled at the guy since it was the 2nd time he was doing it).
There are a few exceptions though - there were some of the guards at some places who recognize me and are friendly.
Thanks for reading my rant :) sorry this just got on my nerves and I had to just tell someone about it...
That sounds terrible. I had no idea that mall security guards had the right to do anything like that - where I live, they're hardly visible at all.
I don't really know what I would do. I would probably avoid the mall, or the guards, because that sort of thing isn't right... and I would hate to support the construct that's employing those types of people, anyway. But, I am a bit of an anti-consumerist, so I'm sure my course of action is no solution to most.
I guess there really isn't anything you can do, except complain to the management (an important thing to do). And I'm sorry to hear that it happened to you. :(
May it end...
I never heard of being frisked at malls. Where do you live?
My local mall,, Aurora Town Center, had trouble in the past of the teens with their pants down past theit crack congregating in the mall. There was a murder in that mall but the perpetrator didn't get far. Try running away holding up your pants! These kids would yell racial epithets at passersby if they were an inter-racial couple or group. Gang signs and gang fights. "Don't tell" culture kiosks went up after a murder-for-hire incident with one associated with that mall culture was put on trial. That person got the death penality, the first such judgement in Colorado in 18 years.
That mall had changed after a lot of complaints to the California company was lodged. Teens are not allowed to congregrate with more than three and there are family nights on weekends and holidays in which the teens are chaperoned. It is a lot better going through that mall these days. Security also includes visits from the Aurora Police. I seen no frisking or wanding in that mall. The awful theater shooting in that same plot had no relation to that mall's past. That was done by a student from outside of the state with no knowledge of that mall's past.
Joelene
When I refused to be frisked or produce ID I got kicked out of the mall, banned in theory. See I had never had much issued, then I got a black girlfriend and well, I noticed they would follow us into the stores. This only happened when I was with her, upon asking them why they seemed to be following us they accused us of "vagrantcy"* and demanded to search us, for our IDs and any receipts we may have.
Vagrantcy is a local crime where a person in a store must have at least $10 on thier person, afaik it is over 100 years old (when $10 was a sum indeed) and no one considers it valid. And for the record I probably had at least that anyway.
I went back plenty after that, the problem guards mostly left, but to this day when I am out with my wife (not the same woman, but also black) I notice more attention from the mall security, than I do alone. One of the reasons I Love Pentagon City mall is that this simply doesn't happen there like it does just 50 miles south (where that incident occurred)
So yeah, I have heard of them asking to frisk, I would always refuse they aren't cops the most they can do is tell you to leave.
Shopping with with a required $10 on your person is ludicrous. When I go to the mall, most pay with plastic. They don't carry much cash. Another new meaning for "Paper or plastic"!
Joelene
Quote from: Hikari on August 17, 2012, 04:35:34 PM
When I refused to be frisked or produce ID I got kicked out of the mall, banned in theory. See I had never had much issued, then I got a black girlfriend and well, I noticed they would follow us into the stores. This only happened when I was with her, upon asking them why they seemed to be following us they accused us of "vagrantcy"* and demanded to search us, for our IDs and any receipts we may have.
Vagrantcy is a local crime where a person in a store must have at least $10 on thier person, afaik it is over 100 years old (when $10 was a sum indeed) and no one considers it valid. And for the record I probably had at least that anyway.
I went back plenty after that, the problem guards mostly left, but to this day when I am out with my wife (not the same woman, but also black) I notice more attention from the mall security, than I do alone. One of the reasons I Love Pentagon City mall is that this simply doesn't happen there like it does just 50 miles south (where that incident occurred)
So yeah, I have heard of them asking to frisk, I would always refuse they aren't cops the most they can do is tell you to leave.
This sounds like something that would happen in the South in the 1950s. I would contact the ACLU. (American Civil Liberties Union) or since you are LGBT, the Human Right Commission or the National Center for Gay and Lesbian Rights.
I cant believe the extent to which people would behave and although I expected something - its still disgusting when people behave like this with us.
anyways I live in Bombay/Mumbai - ever since the bombings that happened last year:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Mumbai_bombings#Allegations_of_police_brutality
security has been tight in malls - well more than it used to be anyways. and although in theory it helps against other problems - there are incidents like this that make you think...
Considering the amount of people these days that buy everything with plastic it seems ridiculous to even suggest you need cash to enter the store..
The only time I ever spend cash is for <$5 purchases or to get lunch at university where the café's often don't have a functional eftpos machine.
With regards to being stopped by security for whatever reasons, that's only happened to me at the airport for random drug/bomb screening where they run a little detector over you and your bag which is in front of at least 30 other people going through security so I've never seen them do anything inappropriate
As others have suggested, I find it ludicrous that you can be ejected from a mall for not having enough money on your person. Even ignoring the fact that many people prefer to pay with cards these days, what happened to the lost art of window shopping? I know I've often spent several days sizing up any large purchase before I go through with it, and the idea that I couldn't do that without being kicked out would be enough for me to take my business elsewhere.
Regarding security guards, this is a slightly different concern, but I'm really worried about going through airport security next month. It'll be the first time I've gone through since starting to live as a woman, and the security guards at airports here are unpleasant enough if you're cisgender. :/ So I can definitely understand the discomfort.
I have never heard of a security guard "touching" anyone unless it was for first aid reasons or in a case of restraining someone who is a hazard to themselves or other shoppers(I'm talking some idiot with a gun or knife). I actually worked at a mall in Boston while I was in school doing security. The company policy was "hands off". In fact, almost all of the stores had similar policies for their loss prevention staff. If they thought someone was shoplifting they called us, who called the Police. In this day an age everybody is worried about law suites & bad press, having security guards touching people is a bad idea. This mall, like others in large cities, had a huge gang problem as well as the issues with teenagers & people with serious drug/booze problems.
Basically, as far as I know, it considered assault to lay hands on someone unless you are defending yourself. Literally, if a security guard frisked a patron, that guard would most likely face simple assault charges. Just grabbing someone is considered assault. Malls are considered private property, with public access. So they can have dress codes, codes of conduct, and general rules for the establishment because of the private property aspect. But the public access aspect forces them to adhere to the States standards for harassment, ect. Now if your violating one of the rules they can ask you to leave. But if you refuse, they then have to call the Police to have to removed. They can't drag you out. Searching someone without Police powers is against the law. If you were searched with a metal detector that is allowed, but you have the right to refuse, in which case they have the right to ask you to leave/deny entrance.
Only Fed, Sate, & local law enforcement has the authority to detain or search you against your will, and even then it has to be under the appropriate circumstances.
Best,
Dani