Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi,

What qualifies as the "minimum" criteria for  gender "transition"?

I will not give my opinion because I seem to be batting zero. (I never was good at baseball anyway.)

Anyone can vote on this survey.  I had the option to change the vote but it has disappeared.  My guess is if I update the survey the change vote option disappears.

If a person votes option 1 then they think you would meet the minimum criteria for gender transiton by simply "feeling" as if you are TG even though you do not take any actions to express those feelings.

The other extreme is option 6 in which you feel the minimum criteria for gender transition is gender surgery, HRT, and living as new gender. 

Of course comments are always welcome.

W

Hi Wendy

just wanted to say why I put 1. It seems to me that GID is just that genda identity disorder. From what I have read which may be minimal to the rest of you, it is who we are from the inside, our brains, chemical make up, etc. We can not change that, god I wish I could. So for me TS is from birth despite our outward appearance and hence number one, whether we act on that or not.

Interesting thought though

Nigella

Oh, did you want to know what gender transition means to me (as the subject says) or what the minimum requirements to be considered gender transition are?  I voted based on the first one since to me, I need to live fulltime and have the body of my identified gender (not opposite).  I selected #6, although the phrase "option 4" inside of the answer should be changed to "option 5" to be accurate.

Melissa

Quote from: Katia on March 31, 2007, 12:02:42 PM
transition means exactly what it implies.  to stop living your life as your birth sex completely and begin the quest to be physiologically, psychologically, anatomically and legally the gender you identify as.

anything else is [full time crossdressing] or [something else] but it [isn't] transition.

As an androgyne, Transition means something completely different.  There is no "opposite sex" (or rather, they all are opposite).

That being said, a "mental shift" comes with admitting we are not truly the sex we are born with.  This seems to me to be the minimum requirement for being Transgendered, but falls way short of the requirements of Transistion.

I would say that Transistioning either for a TS or an Androgyne, begins with dressing and beginning to live the role of your gender.

Quote from: Kiera on April 17, 2007, 04:11:38 PM
I see nine voted but only two commented. Am confused!  :icon_bunch:

Just to make up for it, I commented, but didn't vote (as the options did not seem to apply to me)

......Laurie

Quote from: Kiera on April 17, 2007, 06:11:54 PM
. . . still confused  :icon_bunch:

*hint*
She included anatomically, which means SRS for an MTF.

Melissa

I agree with Katia transition means going from one to the other though to me the journey is part of transition. As long as that is what is happening. But actual transition is the doing so.
Rashelle

Quote from: Katia on April 17, 2007, 05:55:24 PM

Quote from: Katia on March 31, 2007, 12:02:42 PM
transition means exactly what it implies.  to stop living your life as your birth sex completely and begin the quest to be physiologically, psychologically, anatomically and legally the gender you identify as.

anything else is [full time crossdressing] or [something else] but it [isn't] transition.

Ditto!  don't get used to it though! :P

tink :icon_chick:


P.S.  Wendy, I didn't vote because I think there should be another option for:
Corrective gender surgeries and option 4 5 - Dress/ Live, "AND" HRT of opposite gender sex.  :P

Dress/ Live, "AND" HRT of opposite gender as the minimum - since it would/could get me to LIVING as a woman at least. Mostly.

Corrective gender surgeries and option 4 as the desired option...

Oh nevermind, I'm doing it again. Rationalizing again.Who am I fooling?

If I could change my vote, it'd be Corrective gender surgeries and option 4 as the minimum (for me).

~Kate~

Are we comparing again here?

We only go as far as we fell we need to go. Once we are happy with ourselves we can stop and chear the success of other people.

For me sittiing here something like this makes me very nervious. The only reason I would transistion is if I am forced to because of depression ETC or I come to realise I am in fact female and need to change my body to match my mind.

Till then I find it hard not to compare with what everyone else is doing - I am stuck in the acceptance but do not want to transistion phase and everyone else seams to be moving on  :'(.

Alice

Dress/ Live, "AND" HRT of opposite gender <-- Me. ^_^

-- Brede

Quote from: Alice on April 17, 2007, 08:41:43 PM
Are we comparing again here?

We only go as far as we fell we need to go. Once we are happy with ourselves we can stop and chear the success of other people. 

EXACTLY!!! Transition is complete when we reach the point of living and expressing, full-time, who we truly are...and that's not the same for all of us.

Quote from: Alice on April 17, 2007, 08:41:43 PMFor me sittiing here something like this makes me very nervious. The only reason I would transistion is if I am forced to because of depression ETC or I come to realise I am in fact female and need to change my body to match my mind.

Till then I find it hard not to compare with what everyone else is doing - I am stuck in the acceptance but do not want to transistion phase and everyone else seams to be moving on  :'(.

Alice

Hang in there Alice...I've got your back.  It is hard sometimes not to wonder where this journey will take us, and compare our progress with others.  It is too easy to forget that their road is different than ours...all we see is how far they have gone and how certain they seem about where they are headed.  Often times, our own roads are not so straight and our destination is not so clear.  At those times, we must trust ourselves and allow ourselves to relax and be at peace.  The journey is not a race, nor is the finish line the same.  Within each of us lies the knowledge of who we are and how we should live our lives to openly and honestly express ourselves.

One's transition begins when they begin to move from how they lived before, towards how they prefer to live the rest of their lives, and ends when they reach that goal.  For some that goal means "All of the Above", for others it doesn't.

Hugs.........Laurie

 

I think transition has to do with starting to live in the new gender.

Thus HRT and operations are tools which make transitioning easier, but if someone can do it without them I think that is fine too (a much harder road in the long term).

Quote from: Alice on April 17, 2007, 08:41:43 PM
For me sittiing here something like this makes me very nervious. The only reason I would transistion is if I am forced to because of depression ETC or I come to realise I am in fact female and need to change my body to match my mind.

Till then I find it hard not to compare with what everyone else is doing - I am stuck in the acceptance but do not want to transistion phase and everyone else seams to be moving on  :'(.

I feel for you, Alice.  I sat at the place where you are now for a long, long time.  I said often that it felt like I was a mountain climbing guide.  You know how that works?  When you come to a difficult spot, the guide goes ahead to a certain place and then stays there helping each of the others to get through to the other side.  And then you're the last one to go on.  It felt like I was going nowhere while I was giving everyone else a "hand up" through their transitions.

For me, that time finally came to an end.  Because it had to or I wouldn't be able to stand it anymore.  When you feel you are ready and you can't stand staying in one place anymore, you will move on, too.

Quote from: taru on April 18, 2007, 12:17:56 AM
I think transition has to do with starting to live in the new gender.

Thus HRT and operations are tools which make transitioning easier, but if someone can do it without them I think that is fine too (a much harder road in the long term).

I agree with you completely.

Transition is both a process and a milestone.  In the broad sense, transition is the entire road from the place where you start to the place where you end up.  This begins with the coming out to yourself and only ends when you die.  There are any number of milestones along this road.  Coming out to family and friends, starting HRT, going full-time, changing your name, GRS -- these are some of the milestones. 

Transition in the narow sense is one of these milestones.  Some want to put it at the beginning of the road.  Some want to put it at the end of the road.  I think the definition of "to stop living your life as your birth sex completely" is a fine one, but to me that means going full-time.  Others seem to think that being full-time only makes you a crossdresser.  I don't believe that interpretation.  Among other things, it doesn't match with the DSM-IV diagnostic criteria for differentiating transsexuals from ->-bleeped-<-s.

In another context, gender transition means to me a second chance. A second chance to be yourself and never to be afraid of the night. To see the world with your own eyes and not the eyes of others. To be human and not the facsimile of a human.

-- Brede

Hi all,

Mixed up and confused Nigella again. I do think we are born Transexual however If I could change my vote now I would choose *2 because to do something about it means transition from one to the other. Some may   say this is crossdressing but is not that a transition a process and a journey? How can we define a person's personality? Soul, feelings? we can't just place people into convenient little packages.

For some complete transition is impossible.  From what I have read on this forum and the pain and situations that we girls go through including myself is to do with the fact that we are going against the norm of society. There are family, work, homes at stake for a lot of us that makes it near impossible to transform.

That is why I said in the first place that if we are born this way then that makes us transsexual at least in our minds and heart. I had to realise that and openly accept that for myself. I think transition is another thing though so I pick *2

Enough of my confusion and ramblings girls

hugs and kisses

Nigella 

Thanks for your comments.  I fixed a couple of errors in the survey as noted by the voters and it appears if I update the survey the option to change your vote disappears.  Sorry.
.........
At the writing of this post about 40% of the voters consider transitioning to be less than "HRT and living as the opposite sex".  That means 60% consider transitioning to be equal to or greater than "HRT and living as the opposite sex". 

Remember everyone is correct since this is your opinion and not a medical opinion.  However it is not easy to communicate how we feel since "key" words have vastly different meanings to each of us.

In fact if we change to the point at which we are at peace then transition is probably/ nearly complete. As Laurie wrote, "As an androgyne, Transition means something completely different.  There is no "opposite sex" (or rather, they all are opposite)."

My opinion is the minimum to transition is HRT and living as the opposite sex.  Since I do not dress or live as the opposite sex I do not consider myself transitioning.  My GG friends at this site (and my wife) would strongly disagree with me if they read that last comment.  :)

W

I voted dress/live or HRT, however, I believe that the first step of transition starts at the moment we begin to understand and accept ourselves to be transgendered. I don't think both HRT and living are required to have transitioned. Depending on the therapist you're working with, they might have a different timetable for these things. With my therapist, in 1993-4, at least a year of RLT was required before HRT could be prescribed. I know there are people who do it the other way, such as Susan/Steve, the Largo city manager, who start with HRT for months before they live openly as their desired gender. Each person's situation is different, and that needs to be taken into consideration.

As Laurie mentioned, it's somewhat different for those of us identifying as androgyne, or another gender entirely. In many ways, I don't feel that transition is ever done, there are plenty of ongoing issues or events, such as coming out to family or friends, etc.

zythyra

To me transitioning is the action of doing so. Transitioned is the end result. To transition is to be going in the process of one to the other with the expectation the one will end up the other.
Rashelle

Transition is the process to match your body with your gender identity by taking cross-gender hormones, obtaining surgeries (FFS, GRS), receiving psychotherapy,  adopting the gender roles and wearing the attire of your target gender.

Transition is the metamorphosis from your birth sex to the opposite sex via hormones, gender reassignment, and therapy.

So if we have three women who all pass and are FT do you think that only the ones who have had SRS and/or HRT are transitioning/have transitioned?

The things other people don't see should not affect transitioning-status of people.

It means a journey and a life. I am transitioning right now and intend to do that all my life. It is in this process that I will learn and grow, increasing my soul and spiritual body. I will never take any corrective action, because I am a man in this body, of a female. This is a type of a man I am. And I love it. I used to hate it. Then, I realized I was also third sexed and psychically hermaphrodital and androgenous. So,  I could not satisfy all conditions and change my sex. The only choice for me remains, is to live in this body as a man. And bear the pain and the knowledge that come with it.

Quote from: taru on April 19, 2007, 02:36:06 AM
So if we have three women who all pass and are FT do you think that only the ones who have had SRS and/or HRT are transitioning/have transitioned?

imo yes.  but that's [only] my pov. 

Quote from: taruThe things other people don't see should not affect transitioning-status of people.

again, that's [only] your pov.

I know I'll probably get bashed for my opinions here, but...

I believe that to "Transition" is to embark on the path of becomming as full and total a woman (for me a woman) as humanly possible.  This means all the way - anything less than aiming for full and total transition ie: surgery, HRT, etc. is "partial transitioning".

Don't misunderstand though - it is the mindset and goal, not the stage or hinderances caused by money that defines it.

Quote from: Attis on April 18, 2007, 10:38:28 AM
In another context, gender transition means to me a second chance. A second chance to be yourself and never to be afraid of the night. To see the world with your own eyes and not the eyes of others. To be human and not the facsimile of a human.

-- Brede

you...yes, you...LOL....you are so smart! really!

to me, transition really amounts to just being yourself. for me, i needed to do everything to feel comfortable with myself.  not everyone feels the same. what does hold true is that you haven't fully transitioned unless you are truly comfortable, and i would imagine that would really depend on the person...

I wish I could tel you where this is going, if I start my transition it would be a mirrale and a dream come true.

To transition is to give you a fighting chance to live, out of depression and lonliness. We all deserve that second chance to be the people we really are.

Good luck to all and every one of you.

and congratulations to the others.

LUCY

Quote from: Lucy on April 20, 2007, 07:21:29 AM


To transition is to give you a fighting chance to live, out of depression and lonliness. We all deserve that second chance to be the people we really are.

:icon_hug: :(  Good luck to you too Lucy. :)

Quote from: Yvonne on April 23, 2007, 12:31:55 AM

Quote from: Lucy on April 20, 2007, 07:21:29 AM


To transition is to give you a fighting chance to live, out of depression and lonliness. We all deserve that second chance to be the people we really are.

:icon_hug: :(  Good luck to you too Lucy. :)

Thank You  Yvonne I hope that some day I get my chance but this messages was for every one, you all deserve to be happy.

Quote from: Lucy on April 23, 2007, 02:37:00 AM

Quote from: Yvonne on April 23, 2007, 12:31:55 AM

Quote from: Lucy on April 20, 2007, 07:21:29 AM


To transition is to give you a fighting chance to live, out of depression and lonliness. We all deserve that second chance to be the people we really are.

:icon_hug: :(  Good luck to you too Lucy. :)

Thank You  Yvonne I hope that some day I get my chance but this messages was for every one, you all deserve to be happy.

You are so sweet Lucy - all I am after is a way out of depression so I can enjoy my like. I am sure you will be able to enjoy your life soon as well.

:icon_hug:

Alice

Quote from: Alice on April 23, 2007, 04:01:13 AM

Quote from: Lucy on April 23, 2007, 02:37:00 AM

Quote from: Yvonne on April 23, 2007, 12:31:55 AM

Quote from: Lucy on April 20, 2007, 07:21:29 AM


To transition is to give you a fighting chance to live, out of depression and lonliness. We all deserve that second chance to be the people we really are.

:icon_hug: :(  Good luck to you too Lucy. :)

Thank You  Yvonne I hope that some day I get my chance but this messages was for every one, you all deserve to be happy.

You are so sweet Lucy - all I am after is a way out of depression so I can enjoy my like. I am sure you will be able to enjoy your life soon as well.

:icon_hug:

Alice

That's indeed so sweet and thoughtful of you to say, Lucy.   They say that when a person sends good karma to others, that person gets the same thing multiplied by two. Thank you so much. :) :)


tink :icon_chick:

The fact is... we can't completely become a member of the gender we identify with completely.  We can't change our genes.  So where does transition end?  It varies from person to person. This is a semantics exercise to some degree.

I know some here who are living full time who I believe have made the transition. They may never have surgery.  There are those who do not take HRT and yet have completed transition (I'm in that group). 

Now, call in the doctor and they'll pin labels on it all so that they can completely categorize it all. That's what they do and it is important.  For it gives us all some credibility if a doctor can name our condition and define an approved treatment.

Is transition ever complete? Probably not.  We'll all have thoughts from time to time concerning some aspect of our former self. We'll see some little thing in the mirror that we'll continue to hate the rest of our lives. We'll still have that family member who will never try to use the correct pronouns.

It's a tough road to travel isn't it?  No wonder so many of us get so depressed!  Chin up girls, boys, and everyone else!

Cindi

Quote from: Cindi Jones on April 24, 2007, 12:18:40 AM
The fact is... we can't completely become a member of the gender we identify with completely.  We can't change our genes. 

We continue to fall into the trap of defining our gender in our genes.  There are intersexed conditions where people with XY chromosomes appear completely female and always have from birth.  The reverse is true for some with XX chromosomes.  Do you define their gender by their genes?  How many of us here have actually had our chromosomes tested?  So by that criterion, I don't know what I am.

So, what does it mean to be a member of any gender?  As far as I can tell, it means that we identify with that group, and when we project that to members of the group, they reflect back to us that they agree.  Then the salience of that membership grows.  Otherwise we feel like Simon, "A snake who can't slither is no snake at all."

Personal Peace and Self Acceptance through congruity. 

Quote from: Lisbeth on April 24, 2007, 11:25:58 AM

Quote from: Cindi Jones on April 24, 2007, 12:18:40 AM
The fact is... we can't completely become a member of the gender we identify with completely.  We can't change our genes. 

We continue to fall into the trap of defining our gender in our genes.  There are intersexed conditions where people with XY chromosomes appear completely female and always have from birth.  The reverse is true for some with XX chromosomes.  Do you define their gender by their genes?  How many of us here have actually had our chromosomes tested?  So by that criterion, I don't know what I am.

So, what does it mean to be a member of any gender?  As far as I can tell, it means that we identify with that group, and when we project that to members of the group, they reflect back to us that they agree.  Then the salience of that membership grows.  Otherwise we feel like Simon, "A snake who can't slither is no snake at all."

Lisbeth can blue eyed parents produce only brown eyed children?  Uh oh?  ;)

Quote from: Wendy on April 24, 2007, 02:27:12 PM
Lisbeth can blue eyed parents produce only brown eyed children?  Uh oh?  ;)

I don't know about blue eyed parents, but hazel eyed ones can.  Both of my parents have hazel eyes and me and my siblings all have brown eyes.

Quote from: Wendy on April 24, 2007, 02:27:12 PM
Lisbeth can blue eyed parents produce only brown eyed children?  Uh oh?  ;)

Is that a reference to my blue eyes and my brown eyed kids?

Quote from: Melissa on April 24, 2007, 02:31:24 PM
I don't know about blue eyed parents, but hazel eyed ones can.  Both of my parents have hazel eyes and me and my siblings all have brown eyes.

Eye color is comprised of 7 genes if I recall from biology.  My eyes and my wife's eyes are very blue.  My youngest daughter has hazel eyes.  :)  (My wife is a good wife and very loyal.)

.....................
Lisbeth I can not tell your eye color from your picture.  I was teasing about myself.  Sorry. 
..................
We have a slight change in mix but still almost 60% consider transition to be greater than and equal to HRT and living as their "correct" gender.  Again no one is correct.

Quote from: Wendy on April 18, 2007, 12:30:45 PM
Thanks for your comments.  I fixed a couple of errors in the survey as noted by the voters and it appears if I update the survey the option to change your vote disappears.  Sorry.
.........
At the writing of this post about 40% of the voters consider transitioning to be less than "HRT and living as the opposite sex".  That means 60% consider transitioning to be equal to or greater than "HRT and living as the opposite sex". 

Remember everyone is correct since this is your opinion and not a medical opinion.  However it is not easy to communicate how we feel since "key" words have vastly different meanings to each of us.

In fact if we change to the point at which we are at peace then transition is probably/ nearly complete. As Laurie wrote, "As an androgyne, Transition means something completely different.  There is no "opposite sex" (or rather, they all are opposite)."

My opinion is the minimum to transition is HRT and living as the opposite sex.  Since I do not dress or live as the opposite sex I do not consider myself transitioning.  My GG friends at this site (and my wife) would strongly disagree with me if they read that last comment.  :)

W

if you're [not] transitioning to any "new" / "different"  [sex] or [gender], why call it transition then?  it sounds more like [modification]; a few nicks here, a few tucks there but nothing concrete really, from one limbo to another.  at least that's the way i see it.

Quote from: Wendy on April 24, 2007, 02:53:13 PM
Lisbeth I can not tell your eye color from your picture.  I was teasing about myself.  Sorry. 

I was teasing you back.  I have to watch out.  Being part Scandinavian and part Celtic, my humour can be a dangerous thing.  Sort of like b->-bleeped-<-ipes are. ;)

Quote from: Wendy on April 18, 2007, 12:30:45 PM
That means 60% consider transitioning to be equal to or greater than "HRT and living as the opposite sex". 

I think that result reflects the fact that most people who transition follow that path.  Which, of course, raises the question of how much of our thinking has been imposed on us by the Standards of Care.  How much has the SoC caused us to believe those who are following that treatment path are transtioning and others are not?  And how much has the SoC caused "self-selection" so that people who are following that path are more likely to answer the poll?

Quote from: Katia on April 25, 2007, 12:00:35 AM
if you're [not] transitioning to any "new" / "different"  [sex] or [gender], why call it transition then?  it sounds more like [modification]; a few nicks here, a few tucks there but nothing concrete really, from one limbo to another.  at least that's the way i see it.

My devilish friend you are correct and funny too!  I do not feel like I am transitioning but I do feel that I am moving to a less painful state of limbo.  It has been very good for me to come to this forum.

W

Hi W,

OK, then, what are you going to do?

'Cause I just read through a bunch of pages on the Reference Library here, and now I am feeling so mixed up, in the closet and in denial, that i think I'm going to scream.

-jen

Gender transition (for me = a MTF transsexual) is the stage when that little girl trapped inside your artificial male persona in order to fit in, breaks free, grows up and has her own life.

Unquestionably, choice #6.

Nothing short of it will suffice.

For me the answer is 6, but that's just what will one day make ME comfortable. I can see others being happy with other options, but other people aren't me. I wouldn't consider someone who's at the supposed "stage one" to be of a different gender than they identify with.

The poll does ask what you would consider a minimum, well I want to start HRT that is a minimum but I want to go the full hod GRS and FFS. At the end of the day I just want to be able to live in the body I should have had, in the gender role |I| should have had and be happy with life.

Is that not want we all want. To be happy.

Quote from: jen on April 25, 2007, 11:37:46 PM
Hi W,

OK, then, what are you going to do?

'Cause I just read through a bunch of pages on the Reference Library here, and now I am feeling so mixed up, in the closet and in denial, that i think I'm going to scream.

-jen

Jen,
Talking on this forum is a great place to start.  My secrets of a lifetime get a reaction similar to "do you want pickles with your hamburger or not?"  I laugh and cry within  a span of 10 minutes.  I have an entire lifetime of feeling mixed up.  The younger you can get professional TG help the better.
W 

Quote from: Butterfly on April 26, 2007, 12:00:50 AM
Gender transition (for me = a MTF transsexual) is the stage when that little girl trapped inside your artificial male persona in order to fit in, breaks free, grows up and has her own life.

Yes, that's a good way to put it. The problem, of course, is just when this happens. My choice is the second option on the poll: transition happens when the little girl grows up sufficiently to act as a woman. The rest is merely ( ::) ) fixing some medical problems.

Then of course, what do I know. I'm still at the first stage and have no idea when I'll be able to progress further -- or even, if I have to.

  Nfr