Yes, and at five minutes away from my current home. Not really "free", but already paid with my taxes. Yes, probably it's not Suporn Grade or whatever, but it would be functional and quite OK for a lot of people that can't pay for it and have a high degree of genital dysphoria.
The thing is, this service started in 2009, and is only available in the north of spain (which is the most accepting place in the country for TG people). I found this in an online newspaper, when I got to the comments... The news was a bit misinformed, saying that between 30 and 40 people would benefit from this. Real truth, 30-40 is the total amount of TG people on my province, at least in 2007. With an standard prize of 15.000€ per operation in the new, we get comments like.
- "Great, now this, later they will pay for their Christian Dior Glasses, Armani Pouches, all with my money"
- "The politics will do anything to keep to keep quiet the trans collective and have a few extra votes"
- "I have to pay 3000€ for my son's dentures and they get a vagina for free?"
- "These people are only degenerated mental failures that should not exist"
- "They should accept what they have, and this is fixed with a psychologist"
- "Hey, we don't have money for christmas lights but we can give free pussies"
- "Thanks, Zapatero (previous president), defender of ->-bleeped-<-gots and whores"
I guess it is the typycal person that only says these things hidden on its home, but it hurts a lot. We only have 34 TG people, and not all of them need this. It is not as if we are going to do 40 surgeries every year. And 15.000€ is nothing compared to what we give for free to a king that does nothing but killing elephants for free, free ipads with paid internet connection for our politics, a president that has a 600.000€ home and has not lifted a finger to work in his entire life... Not to mention that we keep giving free money to the banks and half the politics have been stealing for years.
BTW, this new president wants to end with all of this and is already cutting or trying to remove the GID services in the rest of Spain. And yes, he is a friend of the church.
PS: If I were to resort to SRS one day, I'd pay it on my own and with a well known surgeon.
Quote
They should cover orchis/hystos since cross-sex hormones would interfere with these organs and at that point it could pose a risk to your health.
Just my two cents.
Agreed. To me, is ok with paying for the orchy, since it may pose a health risk. Anyways, we are supposed to have the best GID unit (and the less transphobic) and our sanitary system works a bit better than in the rest of Spain, but...
Quote
Do they at least cover braces? I'm assuming you don't live in "castilla-leon" proper.
Nope. in fact, I've never seen a public healthcare dentist. For my upper row, it's going to be 1000€.
Quote from: MadHatter on August 20, 2012, 09:05:41 AM
I sort of agree with those comments, all though I wouldn't be so crass. Really, SRS is not ''medically necessary" for you to live or even operate functionally(despite how bad you may feel it's not like having liver failure) so I think it is a bit much. They should cover orchis/hystos since cross-sex hormones would interfere with these organs and at that point it could pose a risk to your health.
Just my two cents.
Do they at least cover braces? I'm assuming you don't live in "castilla-leon" proper.
Unless one's GID or other issues cause a suicide. We do have an exceptionally high suicide rate because of the conflict of being mentally one gender, but having the body of another.
Contrary to the responses in the paper, "not having christmas lights" is not in the same category as "not having a pussy." And, I suppose the person who said we are "degenerated mental failures who should not exist" also has a stash of Zyklon-B to meet our needs.
But, anytime one sees anonymous posts one will see the "Internet Big Men" trot on out and waggle their manhood for all too see....
Quote from: Apples on August 20, 2012, 08:51:05 AM
1- "Great, now this, later they will pay for their Christian Dior Glasses, Armani Pouches, all with my money"
2- "The politics will do anything to keep to keep quiet the trans collective and have a few extra votes"
3- "I have to pay 3000€ for my son's dentures and they get a vagina for free?"
4- "These people are only degenerated mental failures that should not exist"
5- "They should accept what they have, and this is fixed with a psychologist"
6- "Hey, we don't have money for christmas lights but we can give free pussies"
7- "Thanks, Zapatero (previous president), defender of ->-bleeped-<-gots and whores"
Okay, as much as I hate to say it, SRS is technically a cosmetic surgery, and thus shouldn't be covered in public health care. It would be nice, but not everything can be perfect.
However, a lot of these comments are ridiculous.
1- Ridiculous exaggeration.
2- I don't think the govt. would piss off the Christian population of SPAIN just to please 30-something transgender individuals.
3- Okay, a valid point, but only if the braces aren't for cosmetic purposes. Teeth don't need to be perfectly straight.
4- Stupid bigot.
5- I would say this would be valid if we lived in a world where people accepted us (non-op transsexuals). However, we don't...
6- Christmas lights aren't necessary and they're a waste of electricity.
7- Stupid bigot.
Looks like only vaginoplasty is covered, orchy is not.
BTW, Three years ago we switched to minimum expression christmas lights, low consumption.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7030%2F6511813143_378ed9dd37.jpg&hash=d22607c70e6a0fd289cff5d6aba973d11f94de3f) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/appleseason/6511813143/)
Bilbao - Christmas Lighting (http://www.flickr.com/photos/appleseason/6511813143/#) by AppleSeason (http://www.flickr.com/people/appleseason/), on Flickr
People argue a lot that they are ugly, but...
Hi Diana,
Quote from: DianaP on August 20, 2012, 10:36:17 AM
Okay, as much as I hate to say it, SRS is technically a cosmetic surgery, and thus shouldn't be covered in public health care.
I appreciate your opinion, however I have to respectfully disagree with your comment.
Depending on your country of origin, SRS is not considered "cosmetic" surgery by health authorities. Secondly and more importantly, by simple definition, the word "cosmetic," means "serving an esthetic rather than a useful purpose."
For those who suffer any form of GID, the opportunity to correct such an aggravating and debilitating disorder; where by the procedure can provide a "useful" purpose has to provide a service not only to the individual, but to society in general, by offering a well balanced, productive member, back into society.
For a sufferer to be able to enjoy complete physical relationships in terms of their preferred gender, as well as the ability to urinate, these two outcomes must qualify as "useful" purposes. Not only from a physiological sense, but more importantly and productively, a psychological advantage to the sufferers and society.
In much the same way as benign skin cancers are not considered "cosmetic." Although medically considered of no further risk, by virtue of the mental wellbeing of the sufferer, they are removed.
To debase SRS to a value of "cosmetic" may undermine the true value of its impact to the individual and on society.
Be safe, well and happy.
Lotsa huggs
Catherine
Quote from: Catherine Sarah on August 20, 2012, 11:16:22 AM
Hi Diana,
I appreciate your opinion, however I have to respectfully disagree with your comment.
Depending on your country of origin, SRS is not considered "cosmetic" surgery by health authorities. Secondly and more importantly, by simple definition, the word "cosmetic," means "serving an esthetic rather than a useful purpose."
For those who suffer any form of GID, the opportunity to correct such an aggravating and debilitating disorder; where by the procedure can provide a "useful" purpose has to provide a service not only to the individual, but to society in general, by offering a well balanced, productive member, back into society.
For a sufferer to be able to enjoy complete physical relationships in terms of their preferred gender, as well as the ability to urinate, these two outcomes must qualify as "useful" purposes. Not only from a physiological sense, but more importantly and productively, a psychological advantage to the sufferers and society.
In much the same way as benign skin cancers are not considered "cosmetic." Although medically considered of no further risk, by virtue of the mental wellbeing of the sufferer, they are removed.
To debase SRS to a value of "cosmetic" may undermine the true value of its impact to the individual and on society.
Be safe, well and happy.
Lotsa huggs
Catherine
Well Put Catherine Sarah.
I was hoping someone would speak on behalf of those who believe it is necessary
I certainly wouldn't consider gender to be a cosmetic accessory
I'm thinking the same thing too.
I have a friend who was among the 1st batch for years and until now they haven't operated her neither breats nor vagina and she pays her social security well. Me I can't count on them anymore. I'm working to have my own stuffs in Thailand if not I can wait for eternity and my youth and beauty is not eternal. This applies to those who cannot afford at all and is the last resort. Their voice surgery sucks and I have a friend Sonia who operated and still sounds like a truck driver. The boobs are small and they will put that THEY wanna put. The vagina I don't know anyone yet who operated with our social security. I meet them all there in the sitting lounge of the psychologist, they are all there rather to change their ID cards to female with psycologists more than the operation itself. They don't cover laser, not FFS and you need to pay to laser your own pussy before SRS. Damn Rajoy homophobe will anihilate all that soon vas a ver...
Quote from: Catherine Sarah on August 20, 2012, 11:16:22 AM
Hi Diana,
I appreciate your opinion, however I have to respectfully disagree with your comment.
......
To debase SRS to a value of "cosmetic" may undermine the true value of its impact to the individual and on society.
......
Gosh THANK YOU hon for speaking up here!
It is an opinion expressed by Diana, but seems not quite based on many of us that have/had GD "coming out of our ears"!
Not even FFS can be lumped in with facelifts and boob-jobs; those are cosmetic, no doubt.
But SRS being cosmetic surgery... YOU MUST BE JOKING Diana?!
Yet again: "what we cannot feel - we do not understand..." I'll put it down to that.
I'll say no more...
Axélle
Considering all the possible outcomes for me. With the current economy and my low posibilities of getting a better job, my possibilities are quite limited. Sure, I have a decent budget for FFS and I could afford a few laser sessions, but... It is not enough for averything.
- Case A: I start with HRT, maybe in 6 months. Two options:
--Case A.1: I leave the home and start living on my own. My savings for that time would be about 45.000€, and paying for rent and sporadic hair removal will mean that I won't be able save monthly anymore (I can save around 500€ per month, half of my income) I can set the budget in 25.000€ for a lot of needed FFS in Europe (or hope to do it on the cheap in South America). The rest of the money are emergency life savings, so it is not usable or risk living on the street. As you can see, I have two options: get an orchy or go with the social security SRS (that I dont know if I am going to like the result. We can forget about Suporn or similar here, economically not possible (how much does he charge, anyways?), unless I can save a lot on budget FFS.
---Case A.1.A: Go with social security
---Case A.1.B: Get orchy, hope maybe in ten years you will be able to pay.
--Case A.2: I transition at home with my parents and keep saving money at full power. That would mean 20.000€ in two years that should be enough for a decent GRS, but relationships at home would become dangerous. I could not go full time, so probably I wouldn't get a letter for the surgeon.
- Case A.3: delay transition for two years, risk going bald, effects reduced.
- Case B: Lose your job, delay transition until you find another one, forget about everything.
Not so sure that I may want GRS, but I want to have all the paths enabled, and I don't know if that's possible without risking the emergency plan. The biggest fear about Social security is ending with a FrankenVagina, and you only do this once.
PS: Oh yes, about the other topic... Cutting a dick, disassembling it like a frog, making a hole and reconfiguring everything to look like the opposite is anything but cosmetic to me...
Ok, I knew my comment would get a lot of heat. However, I do agree that SRS serves a useful purpose (I would love it, but just can't financially afford the surgery, can't afford the recovery period and I have a fear of surgery in general).
That being said, I have a couple of extra things to say. First, benign skin cancer can become malignant if left untreated, so removing it is a risk prevention, and thus is properly not considered cosmetic, Catherine.
Next, and know that I'm not trying to start an argument, there are a lot of procedures that some people might deem necessary, but others won't. For example, a kid has teeth that are functional and will not lead to any health problems, but they're not perfect, and this is affecting the child's self-esteem. Would this make it so that these braces go from "cosmetic" to "useful"? What about a very insecure woman wanting a boob-job because she feels that "perfect" breasts are necessary for her mental stability and well-being?
I know how much it sucks that SRS is not available to a lot of people who feel that they need it, but aren't very well off financially. However, my point is this: where do we draw the line?
Know that I agree with all of you that SRS does have a useful purpose, but that TECHNICALLY (meaning upon very close scrutiny) it can be considered cosmetic.
People who don't appreciate that they're kids can't have braces, for example, have a valid reason to be irked by the public health care system providing coverage for SRS.
I'm not saying that any of you are wrong, I'm just saying that you're not the only ones who are right.
Quote from: MadHatter on August 20, 2012, 01:16:21 PM
Well srs IS cosmetic...I fail to see how turning a penis into a vagina or vice versa is critical to ones health? In fact, reading these SRS horror stories like that of Mandy's convinces me that SRS, if anything, is probably detrimental to one's health.
I guess the way of evaluating the need for SRS would be something like: "If you feel that without SRS you will be depressed and sad till the day you die and you may consider suicide, then do it. If not, you can live without it". Maybe we can divide TS people between the ones that can look down and others that can't.
I mean, it's invasive, risky, can lead to a lot of complications and even those surprises as "whops, it closed".
Also, those 15.000€ could be spent in lots of other things that could improve my life more than that. Braces, BA, clothing...
can't Mental Health be just as Detrimental as Physical health?
and wouldn't you say that someone who has say seen a therapist for 2 years and has spent thousands of dollars on evaluation, diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder, and given the okay for surgery be more entitled to corrections than someone with one or 2 consultations for breast or teeth straightening?
I agree that it is very Tricky to determine but cosmetic to me is more visual IE teeth and Breast.
People don't get SRS to glamorize their appearance and if they are, they don't follow the guidelines required by WPATH
The fact that not just anyone can have surgery to begin with and that there even is WPATH
should alone be enough to say it goes beyond cosmetic
Quote from: Bella on August 20, 2012, 03:50:28 PM
This is really all dependent on where you live in the world. If you live in a coutnry where health care is all paid for by taxes, SRS should be covered. In such countries smokers who suffer from smoke induced cancers get their stuff paid for, fat people get their stomach stapling stuff paid for etc. All of this is self induced. Why shouldn't I be able to get my stuff fixed - stuff that I had no control over? SRS is THE single most important thing I've done in my life. I am completely "cured" for lack of a better word. Any transgenderness I was feeling is gone, and left is only "woman". Also, at least where I live, HRT *and* SRS are considered the appropriate treatment for GID.
Quote from: Jillary Woolen Xσx on August 20, 2012, 01:34:09 PM
can't Mental Health be just as Detrimental as Physical health?
and wouldn't you say that someone who has say seen a therapist for 2 years and has spent thousands of dollars on evaluation, diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder, and given the okay for surgery be more entitled to corrections than someone with one or 2 consultations for breast or teeth straightening?
I agree that it is very Tricky to determine but cosmetic to me is more visual IE teeth and Breast.
People don't get SRS to glamorize their appearance and if they are, they don't follow the guidelines required by WPATH
The fact that not just anyone can have surgery to begin with and that there even is WPATH
should alone be enough to say it goes beyond cosmetic
Well I agree that in a place where health care is covered by taxes that SRS should be free. I also agree that braces, boob-jobs, and other procedures for appearances are not the same as SRS. They just require less effort to obtain because society doesn't see anything wrong with them. Perhaps someday, when society eventually accepts us, SRS will be easier to obtain. It can easily be said that someone's mental health is in jeopardy if they can't get a cosmetic procedure (They'll probably claim to have some sort of perfectionist mental disorder where they require a perfect image in order to feel satisfied with themselves). Since no one can actually analyze someone's mind because it's not tangible thing, then these people can't be rejected, just like we shouldn't be. This is where the idea of mental health gets complicated. You can tell them to get over it, but then again, they can say the same to you (Albeit, they shouldn't).
This is one of those "if they do it for you, then they have to do it for everyone" situations. It's just not practical.
Let me reiterate that I agree with you guys. I'm just saying that the world isn't perfect and that its very difficult to please everyone. I apologize for offending anybody, but I'm just being realistic and acknowledging the fact that everyone has a subjective opinion and being subjective means that, technically, they can't be inherently wrong so much as just contradictory to ours.
Looks like I was misunderstood. They offer not only SRS, but also boobwork on the deal.
Preciously they would help with up to 60.000€ for surgeries if you were to do it on your own, but since they are doing it here, That aid was removed.
Also, I'm being told that they could offer FFS on a future. I've never asked for any financial help to the government in my life, yet I have coughed blood while working to pay my taxes and never evade them. So yes, I'm pretty OK with all of these.
Quote from: Apples Mk.II on August 20, 2012, 12:22:45 PM- Case A: I start with HRT, maybe in 6 months. Two options:
--Case A.1: I leave the home and start living on my own. My savings for that time would be about 45.000€, and paying for rent and sporadic hair removal will mean that I won't be able save monthly anymore (I can save around 500€ per month, half of my income) I can set the budget in 25.000€ for a lot of needed FFS in Europe (or hope to do it on the cheap in South America). The rest of the money are emergency life savings, so it is not usable or risk living on the street. As you can see, I have two options: get an orchy or go with the social security SRS (that I dont know if I am going to like the result. We can forget about Suporn or similar here, economically not possible (how much does he charge, anyways?), unless I can save a lot on budget FFS.
---Case A.1.A: Go with social security
Seems like the best option you'd have, in this situation.
One surgery every 90 days, BA included and done at the same time, labiaplasty on a second stage and it's been like this for three years. It can't be that bad.
There are rumors about including FFS in a future. I suppose it will be quite basic, but even a trach shave would help.
And with the new taxes increase, I can say that I have already paid for it. So the only thing I need now is to have enough guts to do it (and survive the therapy).
Looks like more information is coming up:
Apparently, it is a complete disaster with social security. Not only incredible waiting lines, but some people may jump ahead if they are activist in associations or political activists.
The cosmetical results are BAD, and there are stories of just 6-7 cm depth. Yes, Centimetres, I'm not talking in inches.
Aftermath: After saving for ortodhontics, the cosmetical fix on my eyelid and the implant for my ankles, I'm saving for Suporn or a similar renowned surgeon.
If you get it for free and feel you really need it, get it hun. Screw what the randoms have to say. Personally knowing that if I got it and it pissed them off, that would be icing on the cake for me. Er icing on the vagina. :)
Quote from: Snowpaw on November 07, 2012, 01:17:35 PM
If you get it for free and feel you really need it, get it hun. Screw what the randoms have to say. Personally knowing that if I got it and it pissed them off, that would be icing on the cake for me. Er icing on the vagina. :)
Not really. For what I can understand, not only it has been used as a political weapon, but they are removing the surgery on several communities as part of the crisis cuts. It is still to early to think about it, but with the new job I can start saving for it.
Then save and get it. Don't see the issue :)
It's a long run. If the surgery with Suporn is at around 495000 bath as I have read it (around 12.000€?), I think my budget would cover almost FFS (Cardenas) and SRS, so only a little extra saving would be neccesary.
In the meantime I'll need to work on the three fixes I want to do (orthodontics, pstosis repair, ankle implant), one per year starting in 2012 and finishing in 2014. If I am careful with the money, I can pull it.
There is still a long time for preparing and planning everything, but from what I know, It is better to avoid relying on Social Security, specially for a life changing surgery. But in the end, Cash is everything.