So three days ago i was prescribed estradiol and spironolactone, and I'm wondering what it's the general time line for any changes that might happen. Also basically asking what y'alls experiences are with that combo. And i know that everyone grows differently just need to figure out what could possibly happen. Thanks for the info!
Assuming your dose is well adjusted (mine is presently too low, so the first seven months of my HRT will have seen only minor changes - looking forward to seeing the endo in September), the very general timeline you can expect is more or less this.
1 week: Very slight changes visible, but so slight you're possibly imagining them. Psychological changes kick in.
1 month: Skin softens and becomes less oily. Slight changes in fat redistribution.
6 months: People who haven't seen you for a while, or a picture comparison, can tell you that you've changed
1 year: Change is becoming really obvious. Unless you're making intricate efforts to hide your transition, someone will most likely notice.
2 years: Super mega obvious. The majority of changes should be done or close to done at this point.
There's also this that you might like.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg15.hostingpics.net%2Fthumbs%2Fmini_670144Untitled1.png&hash=f0fcd7d695abd1f2c66a41505c5c0439d1dabd69) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=670144Untitled1.png)
I started experiencing changes the first week, and at 1 year I am still experiencing lots of changes. They've been drastic.
Week 1 My libido changed (got stronger actually) and noticed male scent more, and my emotional state changed. I got more tempermental and emotional. I was also more calm and at ease with myself.
At 1 month my sex drive completely changed. Erections didn't happen at will anymore. Breast growth started it's very early stages (noticed tiny traffic cone shaped things along with buds that were very painful to the touch). A slight change was going on in my face but I couldn't tell what. Also, my strength loss was VERY noticeable, however I didn't lose any muscle mass.
At 2 months my face rounded a tiny bit and my skin texture changed. My scalp hair grew quicker. My muscles were melting away. Finasteride was making me shed, though.
At 3 months my skin was getting a bit lighter in color. Breasts were becoming noticeable thru my shirt. My libido changed from visual stimulation to emotional stimulation.
At 4-6 months body hair was falling off my body. My face started changing a lil more rapidly. The jaw was becoming weaker in appearance. My skin was VERY dry during the winter. I got maamed for the first time in month 5. My boss started looking at me differently and giving me crap about EVERYTHING he wouldn't give others. One company meeting we had, before going in, I looked in the mirror and was pretty shocked by how feminine my face looked that day. He stared daggers at me the whole time and never acted the same towards me since. Shedding from Finasteride stopped.
At month 7 the changes were very obvious. I was a full A cup and it was getting difficult to tell if I was a boy or girl. People either refrained from gendering me until they got my name, or switched between calling me a he or a she. I went part time, outside of work I was female. I noticed, also, that I had shrank in size about 1.5 inches.
At month 8 it got to the point where people were seeing me as a girl more than a boy. New clients even referred to me as a girl until I told them my name. My boss fired me this month too. I went full time after being seen as a girl even though I had facial hair and was talking in what I thought was my male voice (I think the practice started setting in and my girl voice was harder to stop). I went full time at this point, except one time I went out with friends that didn't know... and the waitress was shocked when my friends were referring to me as a boy. It took some convincing to get her to see that I was "male". I told all of my friends after this point and NONE of them were shocked. When buying girl shoes I noticed that my feet shrank from a size 10.5 wide in girls to a size 8 wide. My scalp hair felt MUCH thicker.
At month 9- 11 my face feminized further. I could see the fat in my cheeks collecting and I started getting more comfy with seeing myself as a female. Also, my body hair was growing in A LOT slower. I'm currrently only needing to shave my legs and torso once a week when I needed to do it every day. Also, I grew into a small B cup bra. My muscles diminished to the point where I was okay wearing more revealing clothes on my upper body. My chest / shoulder region is now feminine in appearance. Around month 11 I needed to get new shoes because I no longer could fit into an 8 wide, I needed an 8. My roommate pointed out that I looked shorter (and he met me at around the 8 month mark, when I had already shrank 1.5 inches). We measured, and it turns out I lost an additional inch. I am now down to 5'3".
At month 12 (now) the changes seem to be slowing down like they were in months 4-6. My face is still shaping more and more each week. Otherwise my breast buds don't hurt anymore (although they have been off and on throughout the whole process after month 3 or so).
If you want to see visual effects, I have a video of my transition on YouTube. Just click the lil icon under my avatar and click on "My Transition" video :)
I just wanted to add something. The table above says that scalp hair regrowth is a no. But I have experienced alot of regrowth since I started HRT.
Quote from: Carolina1983 on August 22, 2012, 02:06:00 PM
I just wanted to add something. The table above says that scalp hair regrowth is a no. But I have experienced alot of regrowth since I started HRT.
I wasn't missing any before I started except at the corners, but some has regrown there and my density is much higher.
Shrinking... That's more than awesome. It's anoying how the vast majority of girls are shorter. ._. I'll be hoping hard for that to happen to me. Not sure how it could happen (and how it could happen so quickly!) but I'd looove it. But yeah, you're quite a puzzling case. You're almost 30 yet get such incredible changes some people younger never get. I know my oestrogen levels are still within male range (what's up with that? Triple dose please ._.) but I'm jealous, with me having only slight changes...
And if my feet shrink too... Hah, that would be awesome, I'd actually wear average or even below average shoes for my size (currently wearing 8-9 with feet too high and wide to fit anything but skater shoes the last time I tried).
By shedding... Do you mean you were losing your scalp hair? Isn't that bad?
And uhm, what do you think about finasteride? I'm not sure, but it looks like the people who's had unexpected changes (shrinking, smaller feet...) were on it. I've been considering taking it, but I think I'd need solid arguments for that. My endo never discusses anything with me... All meetings take about 15 minutes max and he answers questions quickly and evasively.
So, uhm, yeah. As someone on Estrogel (17β-estradiol [<-Yeah, having fun with the symbol being on my keyboard] transdermal gel) and Androcur (cyproterone acetate), do you think I could benefit from finasteride? Do you have tips for me when presenting the idea to my doctor?
Carolina1983: Yeah, recession of balding and such seems to be one of those HRT effects that aren't documented. I guess it's rarely anything more than minor growth.
I'm not allowed to answer. Sorry.
Hi,
I am on Day three and no changes, yet!
I guess it is way too early!! :-)
@Alainaluvsu
Congrats!!! What is your secret?? :-)
Quote from: A on August 22, 2012, 03:00:48 PM
Shrinking... That's more than awesome. It's anoying how the vast majority of girls are shorter. ._. I'll be hoping hard for that to happen to me. Not sure how it could happen (and how it could happen so quickly!) but I'd looove it. But yeah, you're quite a puzzling case. You're almost 30 yet get such incredible changes some people younger never get. I know my oestrogen levels are still within male range (what's up with that? Triple dose please ._.) but I'm jealous, with me having only slight changes...
And if my feet shrink too... Hah, that would be awesome, I'd actually wear average or even below average shoes for my size (currently wearing 8-9 with feet too high and wide to fit anything but skater shoes the last time I tried).
By shedding... Do you mean you were losing your scalp hair? Isn't that bad?
And uhm, what do you think about finasteride? I'm not sure, but it looks like the people who's had unexpected changes (shrinking, smaller feet...) were on it. I've been considering taking it, but I think I'd need solid arguments for that. My endo never discusses anything with me... All meetings take about 15 minutes max and he answers questions quickly and evasively.
So, uhm, yeah. As someone on Estrogel (17β-estradiol [<-Yeah, having fun with the symbol being on my keyboard] transdermal gel) and Androcur (cyproterone acetate), do you think I could benefit from finasteride? Do you have tips for me when presenting the idea to my doctor?
As far as height and foot size difference, it's not a new phenomenon. Not too sure if it's common. I know for a fact I did though, as I used to be taller than my sister and now I'm shorter. If I had to guess on why it happens, the fat in the feet disappear. I know I'm getting more sores on the bottom of my feet from standing all day than I ever have before and I think that's because I don't have any cushion there. Plus I read that ligaments inbetween the bones may shrink as well as muscles in the back that makes men have their posture disappear.
Yes, I was losing scalp hair, mostly in the back (underneath the crown). Not in a MPB type way though. I've read about it and it's common on Finasteride. Up to 10% of your hair sheds initially and many say that's how you know it'll work for you. No idea why it does that though.
As far as Finasteride, I've never had any unwanted side effects from it. I got on it not because I was getting MPB, but because I noticed quite a bit of hair shedding daily, and plus I've read that any DHT in your blood will interfere with estrogen in a big way.
http://books.google.com/books?id=_ptMN5v7JK8C&pg=PA66&lpg=PA66&dq=dht+blocks+estradiol&source=bl&ots=EmWcNei-mc&sig=N28CzryenF39B6AlhZLWMEpyoBw&sa=X&ei=uWA1UJTDIK-02AWdt4GgBQ&ved=0CCQQ6AEwBDgK#v=onepage&q=dht%20blocks%20estradiol&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=_ptMN5v7JK8C&pg=PA66&lpg=PA66&dq=dht+blocks+estradiol&source=bl&ots=EmWcNei-mc&sig=N28CzryenF39B6AlhZLWMEpyoBw&sa=X&ei=uWA1UJTDIK-02AWdt4GgBQ&ved=0CCQQ6AEwBDgK#v=onepage&q=dht%20blocks%20estradiol&f=false)
"Because DHT blocks binding of estradiol to SHBG, its presence completely negates the effects of estradiol. In fact, the use of DHT in clinical trials was found to lower levels of both estradiol and SHBG"
This citation may be enough to help you with your endo, or at least get a DHT test. I personally told my doctor what I was self dosing on and she went along with what I was doing... seeing as my blood tests were in range of where I needed them to be at the time.
Quote from: NotThereYet on August 22, 2012, 04:34:24 PM
@Alainaluvsu
Congrats!!! What is your secret?? :-)
Girl.... I wish I knew. I eat a bunch of protein, maybe that helps? I have also avoided phytoestrogens such as soy because I've read they compete with / interfere with the blocking of estradiol to estrogen receptors.
Quote from: A on August 22, 2012, 07:45:51 AM
Assuming your dose is well adjusted (mine is presently too low, so the first seven months of my HRT will have seen only minor changes - looking forward to seeing the endo in September), the very general timeline you can expect is more or less this.
1 week: Very slight changes visible, but so slight you're possibly imagining them. Psychological changes kick in.
1 month: Skin softens and becomes less oily. Slight changes in fat redistribution.
6 months: People who haven't seen you for a while, or a picture comparison, can tell you that you've changed
1 year: Change is becoming really obvious. Unless you're making intricate efforts to hide your transition, someone will most likely notice.
2 years: Super mega obvious. The majority of changes should be done or close to done at this point.
There's also this that you might like.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg15.hostingpics.net%2Fthumbs%2Fmini_670144Untitled1.png&hash=f0fcd7d695abd1f2c66a41505c5c0439d1dabd69) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=670144Untitled1.png)
I'm hoping that my endo will raise my dosages cause even though I'm only three days in, the amount seems low... And i honestly don't think i will transform that quick on the low dosages... But here's to hoping!
Quote from: TessaM on August 22, 2012, 06:46:01 PM
Is that true about the soy? Holy ->-bleeped-<- I drink so much of that crap im going to stop now lol!
I do too. Don't. It only interferes when the estrogen is higher than recommended (for natal women), which can cause breast cancer amongst other things. That's why asian women have lower rates of breast cancer. When TS, in the first few months of HRT, get rrrrreally high levels of E, docs might tell them that one of the possible consequences of this, IN THE LONG RUN, is breast cancer. Drinking soy can do more good than harm, actually.
Here's the stuff:
'It is thought that the weaker phytoestrogens can compete for estrogen receptors with the more potent endogenous estrogens thereby decreasing the overall estrogenic activity when it is deemed to be too high.'
'Phytoestrogens compete with estradiol for estrogen binding sites in the reproductive tracts of animals in vivo and in human breast cancer cells in vitro'
'Soybeans, which also contain estrogenic isoflavones, have been implicated as being responsible for the low incidence of breast and other female reproductive cancers in Japanese woman who consume large amounts of soybean products. 183 Studies show a correlation between high levels of urninary lignans and isoflavonoid phytoestrogens, specifically genistein, and a low incidence of hormone-dependent cancers such as breast and prostate cancer.'
More here: https://www.planetherbs.com/theory/phytoestrogens.html (https://www.planetherbs.com/theory/phytoestrogens.html)
Still, it's true what Alaina says, but I don't think drinking, say, a glass per day is going to be that bad. At least judging by the looks of you anyway...
Soy does contain phyto-oestrogens, but I don't know about the amount. I'd say it's probably not enough to be a serious issue... Well, I hope I'm right, because as a lactose intolerant who hates the taste of milk, things are bad for me if I have to stop soy milk. I'd ask my endo about it, but he's always just smiling and saying "no issue", "it's normal" and "don't worry, I have experience" to most things. If there's an issue, he won't know/tell. ^^'
And thanks a lot for all that, Alaina. I knew about shoe size being rather common, but height changes, especially that much, are new to me. ^.^
I'll talk about finasteride to the endo. Too bad I've already done my blood tests for the appointment (besides, I checked and DHT isn't even something he can check on his sheet! xD) I wonder if he'd have the time to send me a prescription and receive the results if I called tomorrow to ask for it. My appointment should be in the second half of September.
Do you happen to know how long that test takes to analyse?
By the way, do you mind sharing about what ranges of estradiol your doctor and you are aiming for? I know mine are insufficient, at 184 pmol/L, still in the male range, but the female norm being written as:
Follicular (110 - 1470)
Luteal (180 - 550)
Menopause (18 - 110)
I'm pretty confused as to what to consider good. After all, in the letter accompanying the results, the endo said values were normal considering the treatment. I hardly see how that's normal. ^^'
And that makes me think that I should really get tips for eating. Cooking takes me an average of 4 times the normal time (Come home at 17:00, hurry to make supper and start eating at 21:00? Heck yeah! Try fitting the the one-hour dishes and the one-hour shower - yes, I'm uncontrollably slow with everything - in there and go to bed by 22:00... Even if I don't relax at all, which I very much need, it's physically impossible. >.>) on top of my global energy being pretty low, so I don't eat very well since I cook once a month at best, even though I much prefer healthy food in all respects. ._.
Elena G: Uhm, I used to believe that too, but more recent studies tend to present isoflavones much less favourably. I have no details though. Looks like we still don't know all the good and the bad about soy products.
A: I've never had a DHT test, so I don't know. I've read they're quite expensive... don't remember the price but I remember looking it up and saying "Oh wow I'm glad my endo never ordered the test!" ... she is as concerned with my finances as I am!
But I'm sure there's a checkbox for other on that sheet... a doctor should be able to order any lab they want I would think!
Ah, uhm, well... I don't live in the Unfriendly States of America (USA), so I don't have to pay for blood test. I guess I at least have this advantage over you.
Do you know your estradiol levels, or do you not do any blood tests at all?
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on August 22, 2012, 05:51:19 PM
"Because DHT blocks binding of estradiol to SHBG, its presence completely negates the effects of estradiol. In fact, the use of DHT in clinical trials was found to lower levels of both estradiol and SHBG"
This citation may be enough to help you with your endo, or at least get a DHT test. I personally told my doctor what I was self dosing on and she went along with what I was doing... seeing as my blood tests were in range of where I needed them to be at the time.
Thank you... good article. I have been looking for info on T.
So if a low T male took E in post menopausal doses, ANY DHT high or low would cancel out the E? Or at least bring E levels back to normal male levels of 13 to 54 pg/ml.
There must be another component because males can have elevated E level as i had due to drinking.
Quote from: A on August 23, 2012, 05:32:41 AM
Ah, uhm, well... I don't live in the Unfriendly States of America (USA), so I don't have to pay for blood test. I guess I at least have this advantage over you.
Do you know your estradiol levels, or do you not do any blood tests at all?
I do know! I get them taken every couple of months now. Although we use a different unit of measure than you do...
2 months in (I self medicated for 2 months): 175 pg/dl
5 months in: 722 pg/dl (very high)
8 months in: 88 pg/dl (very low)
10 months in: 112 pg/dl (still low)
My doctor wants them in the 150-250 range.
Quote from: TessaM on August 23, 2012, 06:47:45 AM
K so when im done this carton of soy milk im going to drink it less often, thats for sure. Just to be safe, especially considering how much I love to eat soy beans as well!!!
And I just realized...you Americans have to pay for your bloodwork? CRAP! Im pretty sure mine is free or heavily subsidized. Mind if I ask you guys what such tests cost?
Yeah, it's ridiculous. It's different everywhere you go... but each test is around $300. However I get them taken at a hospital and when you do that (at least in Louisiana), you are only obligated to pay $10 a month for every test you take until it's paid off.
Quote from: joann on August 23, 2012, 06:53:44 AM
Thank you... good article. I have been looking for info on T.
So if a low T male took E in post menopausal doses, ANY DHT high or low would cancel out the E? Or at least bring E levels back to normal male levels of 13 to 54 pg/ml.
There must be another component because males can have elevated E level as i had due to drinking.
Age is a major factor in decreasing T levels in men, also. Natural production of testosterone in the blood peaks at age 30, and declines a couple percent each year (on average). Of course, the less T you have, the less that can be converted to DHT.
"By the way, do you mind sharing about what ranges of estradiol your doctor and you are aiming for? I know mine are insufficient, at 184 pmol/L, still in the male range, but the female norm being written as:
Follicular (110 - 1470)
Luteal (180 - 550)
Menopause (18 - 110)
I'm pretty confused as to what to consider good. After all, in the letter accompanying the results, the endo said values were normal considering the treatment. I hardly see how that's normal".
Charing Cross gender clinic London has a 400 pmol/L recommendation (post-op), I'm sure that has not changed.
On 'normal' menopause E2 (oral, and post-op) I wound up with about 250 pmol/L which is pretty much target when reading the by-pack info... i.e. 200 pmol/L.
Whilst pre-op and on about 3x menopause maintenance E2, and no T blockers as T was already low at 0.7 nmol/L, for female range: 0.7 - 2.8 nmol/L (male range 8.0 - 18.7 nmol/L) my Estradiol level was then 734 pmol/L.
This may put some perspective, bearing in mind as ALWAYS, we do differ and age makes ALWAYS a difference too.
I have NOT given any doses, so let's hope we don't get into issues over my answering your question.
Axélle
Nope, we don't. Strangely enough, medication doses are entirely forbidden, but there's zero issue with blood levels.
Thanks to you two for your numbers.
Axélle: Ehm, correct me if I'm wrong... Are you saying that your doctor is mimicking menopause with your doses? This is crazy... x_x He should know that menopause, although normal, is when part of a woman's body fails = not something to wish for...
Alaina, I've converted your values in your post.
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on August 23, 2012, 10:21:42 AM
2 months in (I self medicated for 2 months): 642.425 pmol/L
5 months in: 2650.462 pmol/L (very high)
8 months in: 323.048 pmol/L (very low)
10 months in: 411.152 pmol/L (still low)
My doctor wants them in the 550.65-917.75 range.
Mhm... Looks like you're aiming at follicular values, past the luteal area. Yup, 100 % confirmed, my levels are crazy low at 184 pmol/L = 50.123 pg/mL.
...But I think you might have made a mistake with your unit. Because this converter (http://www.soc-bdr.org/rds/authors/unit_tables_conversions_and_genetic_dictionaries/e5196/index_en.html) says the conventional unit for estradiol is pg/mL. And well, if I make the obvious conversion... Your target range would be 55 065 - 91 775 pmol/L, which is roughly 100 x the values on my sheet. xD
And uhm. THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS?! This is crazy. Gosh, how are Americans even alive? I mean, if a basic thing like blood tests are at such a crazy price, doesn't it mean health care is exclusively for the rich? Or rather, the extremely rich? (My revenue: a little less than 880 $ per month. Ask me to do four blood tests a year and you're taking over 10 % of my annual revenue away. x_x)
Quote from: A on August 23, 2012, 03:18:32 PM
Nope, we don't. Strangely enough, medication doses are entirely forbidden, but there's zero issue with blood levels.
Thanks to you two for your numbers.
Axélle: Ehm, correct me if I'm wrong... Are you saying that your doctor is mimicking menopause with your doses? This is crazy... x_x He should know that menopause, although normal, is when part of a woman's body fails = not something to wish for...
Alaina, I've converted your values in your post.
Mhm... Looks like you're aiming at follicular values, past the luteal area. Yup, 100 % confirmed, my levels are crazy low at 184 pmol/L = 50.123 pg/mL.
...But I think you might have made a mistake with your unit. Because this converter (http://www.soc-bdr.org/rds/authors/unit_tables_conversions_and_genetic_dictionaries/e5196/index_en.html) says the conventional unit for estradiol is pg/mL. And well, if I make the obvious conversion... Your target range would be 55 065 - 91 775 pmol/L, which is roughly 100 x the values on my sheet. xD
And uhm. THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS?! This is crazy. Gosh, how are Americans even alive? I mean, if a basic thing like blood tests are at such a crazy price, doesn't it mean health care is exclusively for the rich? Or rather, the extremely rich? (My revenue: a little less than 880 $ per month. Ask me to do four blood tests a year and you're taking over 10 % of my annual revenue away. x_x)
Oops, you're right. My levels are measured as per pg/ml.
It sucks... it really does. Add on top of that the endo visits are usually about $110 and the pills are about $70 (would be more if Wal Mart didn't have excellent prescription prices)... it's really expensive. Basically if you have a serious medical condition... consider yourself bankrupt if you don't have great insurance or a bunch of money in the bank.
"God bless America", eh? Apart from the inappropriate term, that's an excellent phrase. Because people are gonna need heck of a blessing to live in there...
And I guess you're happy you're not taking cyproterone instead of spiro, and pills instead of gel. Estrogel + Androcur = 135 $ a month. ^^' And I'm not even sure my dose is good. Might go up if I need a higher dose of estradiol.
They don't prescribe Cyproterone in the states. All I know is a months worth of E for me is $16... Finasteride is about $10, and Spiro is about $50... plus tax of course =/ Walmart saved my butt...
Quote from: MadHatter on August 23, 2012, 04:30:48 PM
50 for spiro??!?!
my friend said she spends less than 15 bucks for a three-month supply. :-\
Really? Where?? I can't find anything anywhere for cheaper...
My insurance covers it although last time they submitted it to my insurance wrong and i was sent a bill for $175.oo. USA
Unfriendly states of america..............lol!!!!!!! :P
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on August 23, 2012, 04:32:58 PM
Really? Where?? I can't find anything anywhere for cheaper...
It depends on the dose of the pills. One version of it is about 270ish dollars for 3 months. And another which is a smaller dose but more pills comes out being around the 15$ for 3 months of it. At least that was my experience with it :D
Quote from: A on August 22, 2012, 08:01:05 PM
By the way, do you mind sharing about what ranges of estradiol your doctor and you are aiming for? I know mine are insufficient, at 184 pmol/L, still in the male range, but the female norm being written as:
My results at the 6 week and 4.5month tests were:
E@ 320 pg/mL
free T @ 15 ng/dl
My endo was happy as my levels were perfectly average - average female levels of E, average male levels of T. Androgyne :P
Quote
And that makes me think that I should really get tips for eating.
I used to cook sauces/curries and make big batches of them at a time so I could freeze a meals worth of each sauce. That way when I got home, dinner preparation was very quick. All I had to do was either cook some pasta or rice and reheat the sauce/curry, and prepare a fresh salad and cut/boil some veges. A bit mundane, but cooking for one has to be quick.
Holy c, I simply walked into my GP, asked for a number of blood tests. Cost = £0. The GP asked me whether I wanted anything else tested too. Couldn't think of anything else. Isn't the NHS great? Well, most of the time. I've been investigating reasons for fatigue. I did some research and then asked the GP to test my blood's E, T, thyroid and ferritin levels.
luna nyan, how can 15 ng/dl be an average male T level?
My T level is <11.5 ng/dL (<0.4 nml) and less than menopausal women.
Quote from: Felicitá on August 24, 2012, 09:06:23 AM
Holy c, I simply walked into my GP, asked for a number of blood tests. Cost = £0. The GP asked me whether I wanted anything else tested too. Couldn't think of anything else. Isn't the NHS great? Well, most of the time. I've been investigating reasons for fatigue. I did some research and then asked the GP to test my blood's E, T, thyroid and ferritin levels.
luna nyan, how can 15 ng/dl be an average male T level?
My T level is <11.5 ng/dL (<0.4 nml) and less than menopausal women.
Because that's free T :)
Thanks for the clarification. I incorrectly presumed serum testosterone.
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on August 23, 2012, 03:57:14 PM
would be more if Wal Mart didn't have excellent prescription prices
Target, oh my god, it was my first time going there, and they charged me $8.00 for my estradiol...I'm used to paying at least $25.00, and I swear some places have been as high as $50.00. What is Wal-Mart like?
Hoping I don't break a rule here... but I get 2mg 150 quantity for $16
Eeep, I hope not, as well. They won't sell to you without a prescription, so I'm guessing/hoping not.
Quote from: Felicitá on August 24, 2012, 09:06:23 AM
luna nyan, how can 15 ng/dl be an average male T level?
I did say free T as Alaina quoted. =)
Those are the only figures I remember off hand from the last blood tests I had - I didn't ask for a hard copy. Thankfully to date, all my other blood workup numbers are within normal ranges.
Alaina you're probably skirting the rules but if the mods aren't happy, they can go and edit you post. As far as we're concerned you could be taking 2mg once a day or 2mg once a week. Anyone can look up what the usual dispensaries on a drug - I think there are international variants depending on government regulations though.
And for all anybody else knows... my doctor may prescribe my E in a quantity where 1 refill is 3 months of pills, 2 months of pills.. etc ;)
I have a question about forming a timeline? Does the timeline begin the day hormones are first taken or the day that you reach the strongest dose your doctor wants you on? Cause right now, I'm on a light dose of HRT, how do I even know if they are working?
Quote from: luna nyan on August 24, 2012, 11:22:48 AM
I did say free T as Alaina quoted. =)
Me stupida. I thought it said "free" on my printout for my own reading, but it's "serum". But as you say, I'd be in the male range. So what does free actually mean?
Quote from: Hippolover25 on August 24, 2012, 03:12:14 PM
I have a question about forming a timeline? Does the timeline begin the day hormones are first taken or the day that you reach the strongest dose your doctor wants you on? Cause right now, I'm on a light dose of HRT, how do I even know if they are working?
You should feel it.
calmness, less sexdrive, smoother skin, less oily skin etc.
Just my cynicism. But don't discount the placeco effect. For some it's quite strong.
Quote from: Felicitá on August 24, 2012, 03:33:01 PM
Me stupida. I thought it said "free" on my printout for my own reading, but it's "serum". But as you say, I'd be in the male range. So what does free actually mean?
Free testosterone basically is the testosterone that isn't bound to the serum, and is supposed to be the portion that is biologically active. Serum is more a measure of the total amount.
Oh. Being on spiro may not necessarily change the amount of free T as it is more a blocker.
Quote from: Carolina1983 on August 24, 2012, 03:34:09 PM
You should feel it.
calmness, less sexdrive, smoother skin, less oily skin etc.
I swear after six days of my HRT i am feeling calm and lower sex drive, I'm hoping that means everything is going well... And yea the placebo effect definitely happens with anything. Someone tells you this its supposed to happen you're brain will piece it together and make it work... But here's to hoping I'm just lucky and its happening fast for me lol
Quote from: Prankster756 on August 26, 2012, 05:58:05 AM
I swear after six days of my HRT i am feeling calm and lower sex drive, I'm hoping that means everything is going well... And yea the placebo effect definitely happens with anything. Someone tells you this its supposed to happen you're brain will piece it together and make it work... But here's to hoping I'm just lucky and its happening fast for me lol
I felt the same thing after a few days.
Quote from: Prankster756 on August 26, 2012, 05:58:05 AM
I swear after six days of my HRT i am feeling calm and lower sex drive, I'm hoping that means everything is going well... And yea the placebo effect definitely happens with anything. Someone tells you this its supposed to happen you're brain will piece it together and make it work... But here's to hoping I'm just lucky and its happening fast for me lol
Yeah the same thing for me too. Its a really nice feeling :).
hopefully Obamacare helps people here in having the insane cost of health care in this country mitigated a bit.
I just had a series of blood tests done before I started HRT. my jaw dropped when I got the bill (im uninsured) nearly $1300 for a handful of tests. guess they will have to be content with 10 bucks a month :o
The clinic in Philly does all the blood tests themselves I believe and charges everything on a sliding scale. Its focus is on harm reduction. Maybe there is a clinic by you to help you lower costs.
Late bump.
In big cities in the USA, and select small towns elsewhere in America, you can get hormones rather quickly, if you figure out where to look. Try calling local LGBT numbers and asking for suggestions for psychologists or doctors.
You do not need a psychologist. Just a doctor who practices informed concent. The LBGT places you call or the Psychologist they refer you to should be able to recommend one. If you are young, you may have the gate kept for a while. But remember there are other docs and shrinks out there. The psychologist no longer controls the gate. The doctor does. A psychologist just comes in handy if you find one you like. And they can give you a letter in case you move somewhere that has more restrictive docs.
But really, there are doctors out there who wish to help us. Find them. Talk to them. Know your facts. If they believe you, you get the hormone cocktail.
If you are poor, get Medicaid or Medicare, middle class, use a work plan or Obamacare, Rich? Send me $$$!
Within two weeks there was a calmness lower sex drive puffy and tender breasts and always perky nipples
For me in the first half year my hair grew back and my body got a little softer. In early August when I switched to shots and my dose was upped to the max I have began seeing changes. I'm starting to really grow breasts, getting a figure and my face is really starting to soften up. It will depend on your age, body and dose. I was on a low dose for 5-6 months. The most important thing is to find the correct dose and that the changes will come within 2-4 years. For anyone just starting I will have stress patience above all else, it is physically a very slow process but in the end completely and utterly worth it!
Hey :3 I'm new on here and joined because it seemed helpful! ^_^ I'm rather young (under 20) and I started taking Peuraria Mirifica 6 days ago. I don't know what you girls think of it but it's working better for me than some "womb-women" say it does for them and already I've gone through all the stages of inner development, nipple enlargement and now I have already grown to a 32B according to the bra calculators. Is this rapid growth natural? I've always been mistaken for a girl since growing my hair long, even sporting a moustache.
Anyways, nice to meet you all and I know it's an old thread but better reawaken it than start a new one :)
Quote from: RebeccaAyres on January 16, 2014, 02:32:43 PM
Hey :3 I'm new on here and joined because it seemed helpful! ^_^ I'm rather young (under 20) and I started taking Peuraria Mirifica 6 days ago. I don't know what you girls think of it but it's working better for me than some "womb-women" say it does for them and already I've gone through all the stages of inner development, nipple enlargement and now I have already grown to a 32B according to the bra calculators. Is this rapid growth natural? I've always been mistaken for a girl since growing my hair long, even sporting a moustache.
Anyways, nice to meet you all and I know it's an old thread but better reawaken it than start a new one :)
is that the root found thailand
Just a FYI: Posts about Peuraria Mirifica get removed, well testimonial posts anyway.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,133675.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,133675.0.html)
This seems like a really good thread to ask this question. I'm currently preHRT and plan to start within a month or two. So from what Ive read for best results a person starting HRT should go with a high level of E for three to four months and customize it down from that point and avoid having a high intake of soy? Everyone wants the best results so I dont think sharing a successful hormone guide would be a bad thing.
I feel as though I'm asking the same questions that allot of pre hormone replacement treatment people have as well.
Quote from: Natallie553 on January 16, 2014, 06:22:21 PM
This seems like a really good thread to ask this question. I'm currently preHRT and plan to start within a month or two. So from what Ive read for best results a person starting HRT should go with a high level of E for three to four months and customize it down from that point and avoid having a high intake of soy? Everyone wants the best results so I dont think sharing a successful hormone guide would be a bad thing.
I feel as though I'm asking the same questions that allot of pre hormone replacement treatment people have as well.
From what I ve heard every person reacts to hormones differentely so I dont think it even matters , you doctor knows best what to prescribe to you...
I dont know my doc at Mazzoni said he gives everyone the same doses pretty much. He gives injectable E if T levels aren't fading. But mine are up and he says I'm fine. This is the formula: AAs + E = feminization. You need both or a very high level of E. I won't get into the P debate. Though I do want me some P cause I think it will give me a fatty and help me gain weight.
I'm officially on day 9 of HRT. On day two my moobs felt softer and more "jiggly". On day three that stopped, but some weird emotional fluctuations started - I got more "sensitive" than I normally am. Day 4 I discovered I'm now allergic to my laundry detergent. Day 5 my nipples decided to be up all the time, and started feeling sore. Day 7, despite being sore, my nipples started becoming an extremely erogenous spot ;D Today my moobs "feel bigger", although measurement tells me they aren't.
I feel like, based upon my E and T measurements, my dose is really low. So, I can't wait to see what changes happen if I get my dosage increased after my next blood test in 5 weeks. :)
I have a theory because mine felt bigger before they started growing too.
They feel bigger because they are becoming more sensitive. More sensations in the same area makes something seem larger.
YMMV, but:
1-2 months: erections gone, breast growth starting
3-6 months: breasts taking shape a little, sexual stimulation different, body/face hair slowing but still there
6-12 months: face changed somewhat, look younger, emotions catch by surprise on occasion, total flacidness (even an attempted Viagra at the wife's insistence did nothing)
12+: several people have commented I look better, but cannot put finger on it (except longer hair, which is not why they are thinking it per their own comments), arousal is an unexpected pleasure, skin has definitely dried out somewhat and looks younger, weight gain...
and I have started fighting it, but be ready. The E is like a fat sponge.
And at my age, paranoid about negative health impacts.
BTW...I am 50.
I started HRT about 9 months ago.
Had a hard time getting up in the right dosage to have a steady and desirable hormone level a long time.
But here goes.
First days:
Placebo kicks in. A bit happier
First weeks.
Breast starts to get a bit sensitive
Skin gets a little softer
One month
Breast start to show a bit of growth
Much happier
Skin softer
Better self confidence
Month two
All of abow but more pronounced
Also testicles are smaller
Orgasms start to change in feeling from time to time
Less spontanious erections
Sex drive a bit less
Month three
Again all of above but more pronounced
Ejaculations are smaller
Breast hurts more
Month 4-5
All of above
Starting to see the changes to my face myself
Starting to pass most of the time
Orgasm feel different in an unexplainable way
No spontanious erections
Breasts hurt so much, so good.
Sex drive is coming down a lot
Month 6-8
Pass 98% of the time
Orgasms are now less of a pumping feeling and more a all over my groin area and around that area. Slightly more orgasmic feeling in rest of my body. Getting multiple orgasms. And all orgasms last for ever compared to the shoot and be done thing my testosterone orgasms did.
Happy as (%&/¤ have forgotten how it was to feel bad.
Not needing my anti depressives anymore
Talk. ALOT more
Current.
Orgsms are like heaven
I talk like crazy. (before hormones i had like active talkingtime of maybe 1 hour tops a day.) Like active talking time over 9000 now.
Breast are a full A cup. (keep in mind my hormone levels where too low up to the 5th month)
Happy.
Self confidence is on top
Sex drive is low (and i like it)
People notice and comments that I am happier and more self confident
People i knew before don't recognise me.
And much much more
Quote from: FalsePrincess on January 16, 2014, 07:20:26 PM
From what I ve heard every person reacts to hormones differentely so I dont think it even matters , you doctor knows best what to prescribe to you...
Although true, I've read some doctors try to be extra safe by starting off on the lowest dose for nearly a year. Which results in another year wasted with no results beyond what a two month period from higher E levels could produce. That is assuming T is dropped low as possible.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on January 16, 2014, 09:43:22 PM
I dont know my doc at Mazzoni said he gives everyone the same doses pretty much. He gives injectable E if T levels aren't fading. But mine are up and he says I'm fine. This is the formula: AAs + E = feminization. You need both or a very high level of E. I won't get into the P debate. Though I do want me some P cause I think it will give me a fatty and help me gain weight.
Hopefully starting high levels is the way to go. Personally I need to lose weight, so major fat increase would be bad if I cant shed the fat from my male fat areas.
Good info on the time lines ladies! Very good to know ;D
Also, has anyone discovered a good diet combo during HRT? Results seem to vary because some people report weight loss and other report weight gain so I dunno...
*EDIT* Is "Finasteride" a common thing added during HRT or is it an extra?
hi!
I would like to ask something. I have found some information about hormones and feminising drugs. There are some! The most of them seems to create side effects. Can you give me some advice, what kind of hormones do i have to take for the hips, tighs and buttocks avoiding all side effects?
Thank You! :-)
Every drug has a side effect. If all you want is padding in the right places, go and buy some padding from the 'specialist' stores. If you identify as transsexual and want 'magic potions' and surgeries to change your life forever, my best advice is to do what everyone here seems to have done and go and see the right set of medical specialists that deal with gender dysphoria. :)
Any more time line information ladies? I enjoyed reading about the changes over the months. :)
What specifically are you interested in hearing about?
I'm 5 months in and having a lot of luck with breast development . I love my breasts. I wish I had them in high school.
Quote from: Tori on March 26, 2014, 05:59:18 PM
What specifically are you interested in hearing about?
Pretty much anything, mental changes, physical changes :)
Ok here's a rough timeline of changes ;D
(Spiro only)
1 Month: Feeling calmer. No more depression / persistent melancholy. No more spontaneous arousal (thank god)
(Spiro, E, Finasteride)
1 Month: Skin becoming waay soft. Feeling happier :) Breasts beginning to hurt.
2 Months: Pores on my nose getting smaller. Facial skin clearing up. Breasts hurt a lot. Becoming very emotional, crying a lot.
3-5 Months: Hips and butt noticeably larger. Body hair coming in thinner. Eyes changing. Lips are fuller. Arms and hands are extremely soft and veins don't show as much. Breasts are finally visible through shirt.
5-7 Months: Changes seemed to slow down and even reverse. This was a frustrating period of time.
7-8 Months: Have enough breasts that I can finally use a bra. Torso hair is very fine or tiny and brittle. Shoulders very soft and noticeably smaller.
8-9 Months: Feet becoming more narrow. Cheeks filling in a lot more. Skin on neck is softer. Posture changed.
9-11 Months: Passing most of the time :) Extremely difficult to become aroused without another person involved.
11-13 Months: Breasts finally growing again, possibly a B cup? Skin amazingly soft all over. Feet narrower. Veins no longer showing. Way bigger butt and thighs. Dramatic facial changes. :)
Here's some things that are worth mentioning:
1) I self medicated until month 10, so I may have screwed up my breast development by taking too much Spiro :(
2) I've had slightly better results with E pills (dissolved under tongue) than E patches.
3) My physical changes may have been slightly delayed because of the ADHD medication I take ( Adderall )
4) I've never known what my hormone levels are. My doctor (a FtM) only checks them if I specifically request it.
This is great info.
I just wonder how long you should be on HRT before considering FFS and SRS? Does it matter?
2 years after HRT is when you normally think about FFS. SRS, should only be done I believe according to WPATH after one year being a full time:)
Quote from: shoko on November 19, 2015, 11:12:14 AM
This is great info.
I just wonder how long you should be on HRT before considering FFS and SRS? Does it matter?
I have been on hormones for 7 months now. And from what i have seen the most is that my butt has gotten bigger my waist has gotten a lot smaller. About getting short i from what i have seen from my time on hormones is that with the weight distribution moving more to the lower body it will make you walk more feminine and you will have more arch in your lower back. I was about 5' 10" when i started and im around 5' 8" now. I only noticed this about a month ago when a friend was like why are you sticking your butt out all the time lol. I wasn't doing anything different. Then i noticed more curve in my lower back.
Facial and body hair has not really slowed down much at all. I was pretty hairy. But it has thinned and lightened up a bit.
Breast growth is going pretty well. I didnt think it would happen so quickly but its different for everyone. But most of the women in my family are pretty busty.
Now i saw someone post about bing in Louisiana which is were im from. Saying blood work is around $300 and only having to pay $10 (sry if i got this incorrect. Please correct me) but i have to get mine checked every 4 months now and i have to pay $75 up front. When i see the claim on my insurance its around $800+. But $75 is not bad at all.
I have united healthcare 5000 silver E plan which is now $189 a month. Going trough the marketplace was my only option to get insurance for under 250 a month. But my endo visits cost me $40 and to see a pcp is $20. For my spiro and estrodol i go to walgreens and if there is one near any of yall i highly recommend it because they have a program where you pay $20 a year and you save so much on your prescriptions. I was paying almost $70 without it.
Currently i am taking 50mg of spiro twice daily and 4mg once daily(which i think is low for 7 months.) But i should have a call from my endo in the next few days and im going to ask to bump it up.
Ooo and i do ihave to say with sexual arousal i have noticed there is not realy any physical arousal anymore its more emotional than anything.
Quote from: ScarlettH on December 20, 2015, 08:03:34 PM
I have been on hormones for 7 months now. And from what i have seen the most is that my butt has gotten bigger my waist has gotten a lot smaller. About getting short i from what i have seen from my time on hormones is that with the weight distribution moving more to the lower body it will make you walk more feminine and you will have more arch in your lower back. I was about 5' 10" when i started and im around 5' 8" now. I only noticed this about a month ago when a friend was like why are you sticking your butt out all the time lol. I wasn't doing anything different. Then i noticed more curve in my lower back.
Facial and body hair has not really slowed down much at all. I was pretty hairy. But it has thinned and lightened up a bit.
Breast growth is going pretty well. I didnt think it would happen so quickly but its different for everyone. But most of the women in my family are pretty busty.
Now i saw someone post about bing in Louisiana which is were im from. Saying blood work is around $300 and only having to pay $10 (sry if i got this incorrect. Please correct me) but i have to get mine checked every 4 months now and i have to pay $75 up front. When i see the claim on my insurance its around $800+. But $75 is not bad at all.
I have united healthcare 5000 silver E plan which is now $189 a month. Going trough the marketplace was my only option to get insurance for under 250 a month. But my endo visits cost me $40 and to see a pcp is $20. For my spiro and estrodol i go to walgreens and if there is one near any of yall i highly recommend it because they have a program where you pay $20 a year and you save so much on your prescriptions. I was paying almost $70 without it.
Currently i am taking 50mg of spiro twice daily and 4mg once daily(which i think is low for 7 months.) But i should have a call from my endo in the next few days and im going to ask to bump it up.
Ooo and i do ihave to say with sexual arousal i have noticed there is not realy any physical arousal anymore its more emotional than anything.
Thanks for the information it's very detailed and helpful. I am getting my estradiol and spiro from Walgreens, too. I wanted to get United Health but it's no longer offered where I live.
Regarding arousal I guess you still can have intercourse or do you now need viagra?
Quote from: ScarlettH on December 20, 2015, 08:03:34 PM
I have been on hormones for 7 months now. And from what i have seen the most is that my butt has gotten bigger my waist has gotten a lot smaller. About getting short i from what i have seen from my time on hormones is that with the weight distribution moving more to the lower body it will make you walk more feminine and you will have more arch in your lower back. I was about 5' 10" when i started and im around 5' 8" now. I only noticed this about a month ago when a friend was like why are you sticking your butt out all the time lol. I wasn't doing anything different. Then i noticed more curve in my lower back.
Interesting. I was hoping my stomach would move to my butt, but it appears that my stomach and butt are both disappearing. Soon I won't have anything left to hold my pants up. My weight's not changing though, so I it's gotta be moving somewhere else.
Quote from: shoko on December 20, 2015, 08:55:41 PM
Thanks for the information it's very detailed and helpful. I am getting my estradiol and spiro from Walgreens, too. I wanted to get United Health but it's no longer offered where I live.
Regarding arousal I guess you still can have intercourse or do you now need viagra?
No i still can get one. Takes a lot though.
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