I'm still struggling with the first lessons in Kathe's cd (exercises 1-9). I can get to the A3 on the basic sounds, but it sounds as a really degraded falsetto, and when it comes to pronouncing words instead of sounds, the sylabus don't connect very well.
I'd say that the maximum pitch I can reach with a decent sound quality is of about 180-190hz / Between F3 and G3. And over that frequency is where it becomes painful (that is probably where I switch to the mickey Mouse falsetto). Is it possible to go beyond this and increase the vocal range with training, or should I try to stay there?
When getting to 220 from a higher pitch, I have no problem, so I guess I'm doing it already in falsetto, but when trying to reach there from lower pitchs, I can easily notice the switch. I guess that also means that I have not developed a head voice. Although the chest resonance is minimal in my current way of speaking, I don't think I am moving it to the correct place.
Should I record and upload the exercise plus my crappy current voice?
Update: This is the data I can gather from my current status:
- Natural default pitch: 100 hz
- Current default pitch: 140 hz
- Vocal "break to falsetto" point: 200 hz
- Vocal Range I use for talking: 120-200 hz.
My standard voice:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FFxEnZ.png&hash=fa817d8573e613598992a37cde9f7d0dce04a1fc)
I don't know anything about Kathe's cds, but your vocal muscles are not used to stretching to these pitches. It takes time and practice. My voice broke and I used to speak in low (dulcet!) tones before transition. Today, my switch to falsetto comes at G4, which I'd never dare to use to speak with unless I wanted to sound like a Minnie Mouse caricature. A3 does sound quite low to be breaking into falsetto, but I think this is simply down to practice. I'm glad you're finding time to practice.
Quote from: Crt.rnA on September 20, 2012, 05:21:59 AM
I'd say that the maximum pitch I can reach with a decent sound quality is of about 180-190hz / Between F3 and G3. And over that frequency is where it becomes painful (that is probably where I switch to the mickey Mouse falsetto). Is it possible to go beyond this and increase the vocal range with training, or should I try to stay there?
With practice you will get higher but 180Hz - 200Hz is OK especially if you are tall for a woman. Taller women are expected to have lower toned voices. My voice is in the 180Hz - 200Hz range and I know it works with people and whilst I can move up to 220/240Hz I tend only to do it for emphasis. After more than 6 months I still have work to do but now that I use the voice everyday it is getting easier and easier. It was the switching back and forward that held me back, but once I went 24/7 I made better progress. I will continue to work at it and improve it. My voice is a 'work in progress' and yours will be too for the next couple of years.
Pitch is not vital once you are over 160Hz. Eliminate resonance and work on intonation. If you are comfortable at 200Hz then stay there. Remember this will take MONTHS of practice and you are on the first CD, not the last one.
Isabelle has started a thread on voice here https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,126967.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,126967.0.html) and I will post a back link from there to here in case anyone there has suggestions for you.
Overdid it + flu. I'll have to wait until I recover to continue. Too much mucus and sore throat as to keep trying.
My natural tone is 100 - 120, but I rarely ever talk like that. In the voice I normally use, my range seems to be around 120-200 (See picture)
The break point in which I switch to falsetto is over 200 hz, but I can't keep that level for a long time.
This is the range I get when speaking as I am used to:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FFxEnZ.png&hash=fa817d8573e613598992a37cde9f7d0dce04a1fc)
BRC, Do you mean that I need be able to reach at least 160, or that it should never go under 160, or that I should try to stay there as the default picth? (like being on a 140-180 range with 160 as the center)
I am 5,8", smaller than the national media for men, but taller than the women media. My voice is quite fragile, I can't almost shout, booze kills it for two days, it gets strained quite easily (probably bad technique?) It always has an excess of throat mucosity and I am like a magnet for throat ailments (waiting for some alergies tests and x-rays).
Quote from: Crt.rnA on September 21, 2012, 03:03:40 AM
BRC, Do you mean that I need be able to reach at least 160, or that it should never go under 160, or that I should try to stay there as the default picth? (like being on a 140-180 range with 160 as the center)
I mean that your female voice should never go below 160Hz. For a lower toned female voice you can be in the range 160Hz to 200Hz if you can lose the chest resonance and get the intonation right. Aim for 160 - 200Hz with 180Hz as being the centre. Any tones
above are OK, but stay above 160Hz.
I have a deep natural voice and I can reach 220 hz without going into falsetto- in fact I can't really do falsetto, BUT I still can't do a feminine voice and always get read on the phone. So, I wouldn't spend too much time concentrating on the pitch. Put the analysers on a radio broadcast - you'll find there's very little difference in pitch
However I think it's possible to get by by using other techniques. I can manage a voice which I don't think stands out as male. Concentrate on moving your voice from the throat to the front teeth. I spent ten years trying to get into falsetto so I could come down from it with no success at all.
I currently have a sore throat, in fact I usually do but I can speak without using my throat at all.
If want a higher pitch, I suggest that you find the threshold at which you switch to falsetto and then pull back slightly to a point at which it doesn't switch. At this safe point, try singing from below to this pitch everyday day to strengthen the vocal cord muscles at this pitch and then gradually edge forward a few hertz every week.
Even now, I need to warm up in the morning. So what I do is sing to the pitch just below the falsetto threshold to stretch the muscles a bit. A piano keyboard handy helps a bit too.
Quote from: Felicitá on September 21, 2012, 09:53:54 AM
If want a higher pitch, I suggest that you find the threshold at which you switch to falsetto and then pull back slightly to a point at which it doesn't switch.
200 hz, but being there is so painful and unstable... I can sustain a sound there with some pain, but not articulate words withtout going back to 100.
I guess it is beyond my limitations. I'll always be unpassable. And the surgeries are even worse.
Quote from: Crt.rnA on September 21, 2012, 03:23:01 PM
200 hz, but being there is so painful and unstable... I can sustain a sound there with some pain, but not articulate words withtout going back to 100.
I guess it is beyond my limitations. I'll always be unpassable. And the surgeries are even worse.
Um no. If there is any reason you will "always be unpassable" it is because you routinely convince yourself that you are, and eventually you won't take the steps to not make it so, not because of some inherent deficit within you.
200! I couldn't get there if I wanted to. I usually talk around the 300-400hz, and will slip up to 440 when excited or nervous, isn't that what people tune their instruments to? I think it is. My voice won't make it to the G below middle C. I've tried, I just croak out. And likewise, I can't make it to the 2nd E above middle C. So that's my range. I normaly speak with a pitch around middle C to that G right above it. I'm pretty sure my voice never changed. I always really hated my voice, I have a wierd accent. And I hated it even more before I realized I was a woman because I would always get "mam" on the phone.
Quote from: Hippolover25 on September 21, 2012, 04:08:24 PM
200! I couldn't get there if I wanted to..
Very helpful. ::)
Quote from: Hippolover25 on September 21, 2012, 04:08:24 PM
200! I couldn't get there if I wanted to. I usually talk around the 300-400hz, and will slip up to 440 when excited or nervous, isn't that what people tune their instruments to? I think it is. My voice won't make it to the G below middle C. I've tried, I just croak out. And likewise, I can't make it to the 2nd E above middle C. So that's my range. I normaly speak with a pitch around middle C to that G right above it. I'm pretty sure my voice never changed. I always really hated my voice, I have a wierd accent. And I hated it even more before I realized I was a woman because I would always get "mam" on the phone.
I think you need to recheck your numbers, it's unsual for even a biological female to speak in the ranges you pointed out.
Quote from: Hippolover25 on September 21, 2012, 04:08:24 PM
200! I couldn't get there if I wanted to. I usually talk around the 300-400hz, and will slip up to 440 when excited or nervous, isn't that what people tune their instruments to? I think it is. My voice won't make it to the G below middle C.
Quote from: Ave on September 21, 2012, 04:28:57 PM
I think you need to recheck your numbers, it's unsual for even a biological female to speak in the ranges you pointed out.
I agree. Middle C is 261Hz. The G below middle C is 200Hz.
here's a sample of my voice analyzed
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi688.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv246%2FKeairaElisabeth%2Fkeairavoice_zps83822496.jpg&hash=d2e41cd369d8b77e2afc7292ff820496f2711bdd)
It's not the day to day that is the problem. I have always been an A3, and passible. It's that darn telephone. It lowers the voice by 10 semitones, and unless the resonance is higher, not the pitch; I still sound male. So an A3 can drop to an F2 or below quite easily on the phone, or other recording device.
A C string on a Cello, sounds a lot different than a C string on a violin, even though they are both C strings. It has a lot to do with the sound box, that the string is resonating over.
A variety of surgeries are available, non of them work totally on everybody.
Quote from: Keaira on September 22, 2012, 12:31:14 PM
here's a sample of my voice analyzed
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi688.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv246%2FKeairaElisabeth%2Fkeairavoice_zps83822496.jpg&hash=d2e41cd369d8b77e2afc7292ff820496f2711bdd)
The overall pattern looks female. Compare it with this spectrograph where I said the same phrase in both my male and female voices
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj349%2Fbev1970%2Fvoice1.png&hash=6d6760c5d852efa471db34f7660b9713a1b0093e)
The left pattern is my female voice, the right pattern is my male voice. Your pattern is more similar to my female one expect your pitch bottoms at 100Hz (look at the left scale). The bottom line (the one with the down-arrow and circle on it) looks to be around the 160/170Hz mark and if you can move your pitch up to be above that line or have your voice bottom out at that line then you will be in the completely female range.
It will sound weird until you get used to it.
Quote from: brc on September 23, 2012, 03:31:29 AM
The overall pattern looks female. Compare it with this spectrograph where I said the same phrase in both my male and female voices
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1081.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj349%2Fbev1970%2Fvoice1.png&hash=6d6760c5d852efa471db34f7660b9713a1b0093e)
The left pattern is my female voice, the right pattern is my male voice. Your pattern is more similar to my female one expect your pitch bottoms at 100Hz (look at the left scale). The bottom line (the one with the down-arrow and circle on it) looks to be around the 160/170Hz mark and if you can move your pitch up to be above that line or have your voice bottom out at that line then you will be in the completely female range.
It will sound weird until you get used to it.
Interesting. I dont have too far to shift my voice to stay in the female range at all then.
Quote from: Keaira on September 23, 2012, 10:04:12 AM
Interesting. I dont have too far to shift my voice to stay in the female range at all then.
About 50Hz to 60Hz is enough. The bottom of the female range is generally thought to be about 165Hz
My pitch didn't move up a lot. The pitch isn't what genders a voice, it's the resonance. It's getting the head voice, which raising your adams apple is part of doing this. A nice by product is, speaking this way all the time makes your adams apple all but disappear after a while or at least mine did.
One trick I did when learning was to swallow, then try to hold your adams apple up and speak in a "hum voice". Speak phrases like "Nim nim one" and nim,nim count up to ten in a monotone at the target pitch. Try to extend the M hum and carry it into the next word. I do nim, nim exercises still and do a couple before I call someone on the phone just to make sure my voice is "set". The other thing that helps is to do "ah" slides from you target pitch up as high as you can and back down without breaking your voice, they do "eee" slides after. work on every vowel slide and in time your upper range will improve. I do these during my morning shower. Given women use pitch for intonation rather than volume, you need some headroom in your pitch for emphasis.
You do have to avoid dipping too low when you vary your pitch speaking. That is one of the hard things not to do. Mainly it just takes a LOT of practice and I think it would be REALLY hard to do this switching back and forth to a male voice if you aren't full time yet. I would have to work to speak in my old voice now and wouldn't want to even try :P
If you have a smartphone, download any number of free Tuner apps to tell you the pitch of things... very handy. Find some recordings online of various women and you'll see that huge range of frequencies... and some super low ones.... lana del rey (a fave of mine) for instance sings down to 150 hrz! Surprising, anyway.
Other thing, I don't think you have any use for falsetto as a mtf. That is as much of a giveaway as speaking at 120htz, IMHO.
The other handy thing to have is a pitch generator. It gives you a tone/pitch to aim for. I'm sure there is a smart phone app for that. I got one off ebay for $8 that generates tones and also measures them. It's purpose was for instrument tuning but works with voice too.
I can reach the 220Hz mark. I have reached the 300Hz mark, though that is not a place that I am comfortable with, and it doesn't sound right on me anyway. I mostly hover around the 200Hz mark, because it's effortless for one, and for two because I come from a family of women who speak in a lower register.
Oddly enough, on mic and over the phone, I apparently sound the same as my mom to many people.
If it makes you feel better:
http://soundcloud.com/user963959415/10412-2 (http://soundcloud.com/user963959415/10412-2)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FSnmQ3.jpg&hash=cd7d43266112b2cf0526b44b71c0d0f063d94711)
I have never formally trained my voice, just kind of switched one day, so it is pretty doable I think. But like I said in the clip I do not really think 220 absolutely must be the goal :)
Currently using a Korg TM-40 tuner. Maybe it is my computer microphone, but on the tuner it is easier to reach the G/A3, or even get to B3 without breaking. Unless I am screwing with the calibration... I have set it at 440hz, half of the range it can be set to (410-489). Compared to the readings playing a piano keyboard, it seems OK.
Anyway, all of this music and scales things, makes me want to learn how to play an instrument again. So in the end, it looks like I can start forgetting about a physical unbreakable barrier. I'd better use this nifty gadget whenever I can, it should help a lot.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.balaams-ass.com%2Fpiano%2Fkorg_tm40.jpg&hash=6178509a1adf1171908fe471feeaba5e9ac34f84)
Hmm, my voice is usually around 200 Hz, from what my computer says. It's not hard to go up to 220 Hz or 250 Hz, but then it's a voice that sounds like i'm trying to speak high. :p
Here are two little recordings~ (dunno how much you hear it in that, but my voice is brooooken.)
http://soundcloud.com/letter-a/sets/two-short-voice-recordings (http://soundcloud.com/letter-a/sets/two-short-voice-recordings)
As for checking the frequency, I:
1. Create a mono Wav file in Adobe Audition (or any program whatsoever, really; it's just that Audition is the only one I was taught to work with).
2. Open it in WaveSurfer, a free program.
3. Select the whole clip.
4. Right click - Create pane - Pitch contour.
And, if I want the average of the recording or a selection:
5. Right click - Statistics.
Quote from: A on October 07, 2012, 06:50:32 PM
Here are two little recordings~ (dunno how much you hear it in that, but my voice is brooooken.)
http://soundcloud.com/letter-a/sets/two-short-voice-recordings (http://soundcloud.com/letter-a/sets/two-short-voice-recordings)
As for checking the frequency, I:
1. Create a mono Wav file in Adobe Audition (or any program whatsoever, really; it's just that Audition is the only one I was taught to work with).
2. Open it in WaveSurfer, a free program.
3. Select the whole clip.
4. Right click - Create pane - Pitch contour.
And, if I want the average of the recording or a selection:
5. Right click - Statistics.
You sound pretty :3
*awkward moment*
Heh, not sure what it means to sound pretty, but thank you.
As a side note, doing these tests tells me just how much my voice has been degrading. This summer, that trans girl I used to be in contact with through the Internet told me she was jealous of how I had a high voice and hers, despite totally passable (more so than mine IMO) was pretty low. She has absolute pitch, which means she can tell what note a sound is just by hearing it (AND she can use programs just like me), so she can't have had a false impression.
Well, I compare old recordings of her that I have to mine, and I'm sitting just at the same frequencies - even lower depending on the recording. Even if I use my "really trying to speak high" recording. I did notice that lately, I'm barely able to sing anything at all, but I hadn't compared speaking.
Not cool, seriously. ._. I mean, I feel bad for those who really struggle with their voice, but I feel it's really painful to have something like that and then see it die, maybe as much as never having it. Without any logical cause. Without a diagnosis to explain it. Without the money to pay a speech therapist. I always liked to sing and had some hidden ambition to become a sort of amateur singer. Had. >_>
Sorry, that complaining wasn't exactly needed.
Quote from: A on October 07, 2012, 08:23:57 PM
Heh, not sure what it means to sound pretty, but thank you.
As a side note, doing these tests tells me just how much my voice has been degrading. This summer, that trans girl I used to be in contact with through the Internet told me she was jealous of how I had a high voice and hers, despite totally passable (more so than mine IMO) was pretty low. She has absolute pitch, which means she can tell what note a sound is just by hearing it (AND she can use programs just like me), so she can't have had a false impression.
Well, I compare old recordings of her that I have to mine, and I'm sitting just at the same frequencies - even lower depending on the recording. Even if I use my "really trying to speak high" recording. I did notice that lately, I'm barely able to sing anything at all, but I hadn't compared speaking.
Not cool, seriously. ._. I mean, I feel bad for those who really struggle with their voice, but I feel it's really painful to have something like that and then see it die, maybe as much as never having it. Without any logical cause. Without a diagnosis to explain it. Without the money to pay a speech therapist. I always liked to sing and had some hidden ambition to become a sort of amateur singer. Had. >_>
Sorry, that complaining wasn't exactly needed.
Your voice still sounds anything but male to me, maybe the hormones are doing something funky there and you need time to adjust? I doubt it's masculinization, Androcur is pretty potent at stopping that.
Well, it's something that started about 2-3 years ago, before I started HRT, and has continued since, in fits and starts. So probably it's neither, unless it's some masculinisation that's immune to androcur - and even then, it would be surprising that it would start at 18 years old.
The ENT, after seeing me for a big 5 minutes (>.>) declared "functional dysphonia" with his explanation being that I put "bad tension" on my vocal cords. I think it's a sort of all-around diagnosis for a patient who reports problems but whose vocal cords seem fine. I don't reckon I've been changing the way I speak to induce such a problem in the last 3 years, since trying to have a good, feminine voice is something I've been doing for about 10 years if I remember well, but...
Anyway. He prescribed speech therapy, but the hospital's free one has a three-year waiting list (guess what? I'm moving away in 2 years), and the private ones are definitely not something I can afford.
Ideally, I'd see another doctor who'd take more time with me and either make a different diagnosis or make the effort of explaining it more, but seeing how long it took to see the ENT and how the doctor only referred me because I insisted, I doubt I'll get more.
I know it sounds silly that it's me who complains when so many are stuggling really hard, and my own girlfriend had a surgery for that, but voice was always something really important to me, and I can't help but feel really distressed by this.
(Feel free to cut my topic hijacking off anytime! ^^')
@Pretty - your voice is marvelous, and with no training. Wow!
@A - I agree with Ave that there is no male to be found in your voice.
Actually Pretty and A, you both have sexy, sultry voices.
Quote from: A on October 07, 2012, 08:23:57 PM
Heh, not sure what it means to sound pretty, but thank you.
As a side note, doing these tests tells me just how much my voice has been degrading. This summer, that trans girl I used to be in contact with through the Internet told me she was jealous of how I had a high voice and hers, despite totally passable (more so than mine IMO) was pretty low. She has absolute pitch, which means she can tell what note a sound is just by hearing it (AND she can use programs just like me), so she can't have had a false impression.
Well, I compare old recordings of her that I have to mine, and I'm sitting just at the same frequencies - even lower depending on the recording. Even if I use my "really trying to speak high" recording. I did notice that lately, I'm barely able to sing anything at all, but I hadn't compared speaking.
Not cool, seriously. ._. I mean, I feel bad for those who really struggle with their voice, but I feel it's really painful to have something like that and then see it die, maybe as much as never having it. Without any logical cause. Without a diagnosis to explain it. Without the money to pay a speech therapist. I always liked to sing and had some hidden ambition to become a sort of amateur singer. Had. >_>
Sorry, that complaining wasn't exactly needed.
As far as the singing, maybe you just became more pitch-aware...
Like sometimes before I would sing a song and think I did well, not realizing I was singing it in a lower key. Then when I sung at the right pitch some other time I would break into falsetto and it would be like... what happened? Because my voice sound so much less full.
Hmm, I wouldn't believe so. I really, really can tell how bad the very same songs sound. And how I'm mostly unable to cry or moan or sigh in my usual range anymore. I mean, I'm far from absolute pitch, but it's so flagrant; I could tell if I were changing the key. And to be clear, it's not just that I can't sing high anymore. I can't sing anymore, period, or almost can't. My range has been more than halved. And the "coolest" thing is that it's not stable at all. Sometimes there's a big "hole" in the middle pitches that I can't do; sometimes I can't do the higher ones; sometimes I can't do the lower ones. Always a combination of all that. And my head voice, I can barely use it anymore at all.
And well, if singing isn't enough of a clue, I'm having a lot of trouble speaking, a lot of the time. I have to force myself because my usual ranges don't work at my usual volumes anymore. Some days/for some hours, sometimes, I just have to stop speaking because when I do, it's nothing but air through a pipe and an occasional sound depending on pitch and volume variation as I speak. And as I said, software and absolute pitch people don't lie...
And uhm Jamie, thank you, but that's really not where the issue lies. My voice passes all right, but I'm having trouble speaking and singing. Basically, my voice as a whole is the problem, not its passing ability. x_x
Well IMO at 18 years old it is probably not more masculinization so it's probably reversible. Unless you actually damaged your vocal cords from over use or straining or something. But I doubt you would damage them that much. :)
Quote from: TessaM on October 08, 2012, 09:46:15 AM
Why cant I hear you guys? Do I have to become a member?
Idk if this helps but it didn't work in opera for me so I had to use firefox.
Quote from: pretty on October 08, 2012, 09:54:03 AM
Idk if this helps but it didn't work in opera for me so I had to use firefox.
or google chrome, maybe some plug in of yours isn't working?
People still use opera as a web browser?
:o
Quote from: Ave on October 08, 2012, 10:02:17 AM
or google chrome, maybe some plug in of yours isn't working?
People still use opera as a web browser?
:o
Yes afaik ???
I like the tabs it has where you can see like a site preview in the tab.
Quote from: TessaM on October 08, 2012, 10:07:05 AM
Im using firefox... maybe because im using a mac?
Adblock or something? Not sure about mac.
I have to resort to Internet Explorer. Firefox on my Windows desktop and laptop fails to play.
SoundCloud seems to use HTML5, so maybe it would have issues if your browser isn't up to date. The recordings are also played with Flash Player, so maybe there's an issue with the plugin. As a last resort, just try another browser like Safari or something.
If it's still not working, well, Macs are evil, so it's always a pleasure to unfairly blame them. So it's Mac OS' fault!
Edit: Oh yeah, I heard Chrome has a built-in Flash player; it's not the Adobe plugin. So it sounds like a good thing to try if yoyu're having issues with Flash stuff. (Actually, since my plugin keeps crashing, that's something I should try myself, but I just despise Chrome's interface, so.)
Agh, nothing. I think I have managed to remove the chest resonance, but even like that the range is stuck at 100-150. I can get to 220 on sustained vowels and raw sounds, but I keep talking as usual. And people can't understand me very well without the resonance. Wondering if there could be something with my teeth, my tongue seems to get hit most of the time. It can't be that big...
I can get to something like this, but without any volume, and sounding really really bad:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F6eqAh.jpg&hash=5acf2eee79e702d71ae3fbf064447dda34fd7092)
It is the highest I can on normal talking Hearing it is completely hideous.
On raw sound with "Hi", I can get up to this:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FWxo9x.jpg&hash=c41a0b475676e25f06d54e46e39ddff33a132435)
Still, quality is really bad, but my voice has never been very good or melodical to start with, even for a man. Sinuses x-rays and allergies test next week. My throat is almost always filled with mucosity constantly, at all times.
Quote from: Rotten Apple on October 17, 2012, 05:22:50 PM
Still, quality is really bad, but my voice has never been very good or melodical to start with, even for a man. Sinuses x-rays and allergies test next week. My throat is almost always filled with mucosity constantly, at all times.
Welcome to the club. :x I don't want to be pessimistic, but they haven't been finding anything with me either. And despite my passing voice, I can't speak softly or shout... and I can't even sing properly anymore.
If you have something similar to me, adding to your difficulty in passing, I would suggest looking for voice therapy if possible.
I plan to do voice therapy on a future (on my own language), but as for now, I can only hope that they will find something.
So far now, I've been on something for decreasing the mucosity (not a lot of results), and after the tests next week I have to start with nasonex, hoping it will do something.
The other tricky part, and this needs to be fixed, is the jaw. It is misaligned and slightly slanted due to teeth differences and TMJ disorder, so it opens diagonally, causing me a few issues with tongue positioning and maybe lateral lisp. No wonder my twisted mouth and face side differences... I need to do an extra effort to be understood clearly.
Age is another thing, I'll be 30 on 6 days, and the more you wait, the worse voice gets... And therapy is going to take a long time, so I don't know how I will pull this out.
I was 50 when I started working on my voice. I don't think age past puberty has much effect on this.
As far as people being obsessed with pitch, listen to this womens voice. She has a VERY low pitch but still sounds female.
https://www.youtube.com/user/marlothomas?feature=results_main (https://www.youtube.com/user/marlothomas?feature=results_main)
Two things I want to point out:
-Women can -manage- with a lower pitch. It does not necessarily mean a lower pitch is a good thing. They can pull it off and still sound completely female, but it doesn't mean it's part of sounding female. A parallel I could do would be short hair, or tight small braids on the whole head. Some women pull it off just fine, and can look even cute with it. But those are still not regarded as female traits. I'm not saying pitch is the number one component of a good voice. But it's not unimportant either. It helps, certainly. Now there's falsetto and princess-high voices to be wary of, but that's another issue.
-In general, it's older women who sound lower. In average, that is. That, and smokers. People don't generally want to aim for that. People usually like to sound their age or younger.
So on one hand, it's not good to force yourself higher so much as to make it difficult to sound natural, but on the other hand, staying low just because "some other women are that low" is forfeiting some voice feminity bonus points. You might not need them, but they sure can't hurt.
Edit~ Hadn't seen Apple Seed's message.
Heh, I've been prescribed that same Nasonex without results. I don't want to discourage you, but...
The one thing I find that helps immensely (for a day or two) with that issue is to choke with water in the shower. Hard to do consciously, but the water to rinse the vocal cords and the coughing allowed me to clear my throat wonderfully and have a perfect (well, not perfect, but not diminished, let's say) voice for a while twice. Once by accident, and once willingly because I'd been annoyed by it for too long.
But really, I wish I had a permanent solution. To keep an okay voice, the only method I know (recently discovered) is to cough even when I don't feel the need to, once in a while, before too much builds up. But seriously, that's unhealthy. It's bad to cough. I'll end up actually damaging my voice with that.
If you learn anything, let me know. My doctor just isn't taking this seriously.
Quote from: A on November 05, 2012, 09:37:36 PM
Two things I want to point out:
-Women can -manage- with a lower pitch. It does not necessarily mean a lower pitch is a good thing.
Oh I agree and yes she is an extreme example of a woman with a low pitch. I just don't think people need to feel like "I can't reach -blank- Hz so I'll never sound female" and give up either.
Quote from: A on November 05, 2012, 09:37:36 PM
Heh, I've been prescribed that same Nasonex without results. I don't want to discourage you, but...
Dunno, in my case it is like this:
- Right nasal orifice does not work. Gets little to nothing on terms of Air flow
- Excess of air on the left causes it close. If I try take a quick nasalinspiration it makes a vaccum and the left part of the nose compresses itself, closing it. I need to make a weird gesture with the left side of my face to keep it open.
- Minimum level of mucosity alergy will block the left orifice, so it's back to using the mouth.
- bent nasal septum, which makes the left orifice smaller.
On monday I'll have a x'ray of the nasal sinuses to see if there's is something blocking them. If I can get that operation where they remove the hyperthropiated area and can use all of my nose, things should improve. The nose's part... I'll do it with the FFS.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fb%2Fb0%2FConcha_nasalis.gif&hash=313bd60ba6e406cedbb49fe6f73b725125876ef0)
If it is what I believe, It would look like this. It looks like it may also be caused by a deviated septum. Today it's not being a nice day, it huts on nose, eye and forehead. I think I'm stating to know how sinusitis feels.
I use Spectrogram but it does the same thing. I think you really want to focus on range vs. hitting a level and staying there. If you are like 180-200 but maintain decent quality and get the peaks and valleys sounding decent, it'll be fine. I think the mistake a lot of people make with voice is they try to get to this kind of artificial place and maintain it. If you could, with the physical challenges you face, kind of get to that wide range with the top end of the scale maybe not sounding awesome but being a place you visit when you talk and not live there, you'll be fine :) This is what the spectrogram I use looks like. The red range is what you set your target too and then you measure where it is. The solid line is the quality. If it's bad quality then it's a broken line. I have the range on the red lines set to 190 on the lower and 220 on the higher and then I was doing Harvard Sentences to practice. I think this was in June of this year. I still use my spectrogram a few times a year and just check and see where I am.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi184.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx153%2Fmeghanandrews%2Fnew051710.jpg&hash=340b7d6dfb2f1e1eb1114f1386850289909ebc0d)
I think you can zoom in here:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x153/meghanandrews/new051710.jpg (http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x153/meghanandrews/new051710.jpg)
Wow. I can't even use the nasonex. THere must be some big hyperthropy there. It's so blocked it won't go up and the liquid just falls. There is not even enough air flow to pull it up.
Let's see what they tell me in a few hours, but I don't like this at all. I'll have to keep working on voice with a limited air flow. The pectox envelopes also have not worked on reducing my throat mucosity. Which comes directly from the nose and does not go the trachea or esophagus...
This may be interesting for A.
Looks like I have a real issue of oversized nasal conchas, which would explain the pressure I feel in my sinuses, low air flow to my nose and only half of it working. It is not functional enough for diapraghmal breathing through the nose.
For the next three months I will be on antihistamines and Nasonex, to see if there is improvement. Depending on how it evolves, they will consider surgery for reducing the nasal conchas.
I don't know, but having a functional nose has to be be helpful on developing a decent voice...
I've had sinus problems all my life, one nostril always blocked. Shopping for some reason was always the worst and would produce total blockage. If you are at your screen for a long time you head will be held at a similar angle and the mucus collects.
It used to be so bad it would feel as if I had toothache and it felt as if the sinus exit hole was blocked.
Sinus medication did nothing for me.
I worked out my own solution. At least twice a day I angle my head back (as if looking up) and breathe in slowly through my nose. I find myself swallowing. For me it takes about twenty minutes of this to relieve the pressure and clear the mucus.
Hope this helps
For clearing your sinuses, try some sinus rinse. It's a pouch of powder that you dissolve in water that you heat to body temperature. Then you squeeze the liquid into your nostril, blocking the other, leaving the water no choice but to exit through your mouth. Push very gradually since the path is narrow and blocked, but since it's a liquid lighter than mucus, it should clean your air ways nicely. Okay, it's seriously gross to do, but it's so helpful when you're having trouble with your sinuses. And as a bonus, no medication to take. The pouch is only salts to make the water's pH comfortable and to help dissolve the "stuff".
A pack with the special bottle and quite a few pouches is less than 20 $.
Of course, if you have a "hardware" problem, it won't fix it, but it should help you breathe at least decently since mucus won't be participating so much in the blocking party.
Quote from: A on November 13, 2012, 03:50:32 PM
For clearing your sinuses, try some sinus rinse.
I use this bottle filled with pre-mixed saline solution and it's great for sinus problems. It works good when you have a cold or even the start of a sinus infection. People say it really helps during allergy season too.
I use a bottle thing that looks sorta like this one http://www.nasopure.com/ (http://www.nasopure.com/) You gently push water up one side till it runs out the other, then do the other side. It loosens everything up and also cleans out any dust or allergens. A neti pot does the same thing.
Be it placebo effect or not, but boy, my nose feels a bit better after using the spray.
Again, I'm using a training disc set... For singing. There is a cd dedicated only to correct breathing, that is going to be far more interesting than. It goes like this:
1- Posture and breathing
2- Vocal Warm-Up
3- Expanding Range
I hope I can do it...
Quote from: sandrauk on November 13, 2012, 08:33:42 AM
I've had sinus problems all my life, one nostril always blocked. Shopping for some reason was always the worst and would produce total blockage. If you are at your screen for a long time you head will be held at a similar angle and the mucus collects.
Have you used Workrave? It's a reminder program I use. Gives me warnings to change my posture from time to time, relx my eyesight, do some exercises...