Anyone ever count the times you were called Queer, gay, lez, butch, fem, ->-bleeped-<- ect in your life?
Only 15 here but they were very cutting at the time. A girl I was trying to date said" You're real nice but you're just not manly" Colleges at work would comment
"He's married but he's just not a "Guy""
Still others would say
"You talk like my sister",
"Why are you telling me this?"
And others you'd just belt it out
"Your gay aren't you?, Look at the girly man..."
And when I was eight years old a classmate said "You're a fem..."
Also As my Mom & Sis would drag me to the woman's stores. I calculated I spent at least 300 hours at the makeup counter, 150 hours in the clothing dept and 100 in the shoe dept by the age of twelve.
Followed by a hour lunch with them chatting "girl talk" the whole time.
It was strange as the first time i put on nail polish i knew exactly how to do it
I have been programmed Female..
hmm.. i don't think programming works that conveniently. my mom and sister and most relatives and friends and et cetera... they all tried to programme me female, but i still feel super awkward when they start talking girl talk. i'm girly enough to be interested in colors, cute clothing, nail polish, make up. but not to bother about it more than once a month or something, and definitely not enough to ever hope to understand how the female mind works.
and back to topic, i can't remember ever being call any of those, really. other than "girl" which i find somewhat insulting coming from the wrong people. even though they usually wouldn't know better (i really do look like one...)
but a funny experience i had was being called "bitch" and finding it endearing, all because it was a "right" person who said it
More times than I can count,but that was because of school and work,work was the worst because I got it on an hourly basis for about 10 years straight. I am just one of those that it's way to obvious to see it in me. The last factory job I had they had me pegged in less than 10 minutes so...... Such is life. :P
I'm dressing very much the same way I did in my teens (jeans, converse, waistcoats, blah) - back then people called me queer/effeminate, and now that I'm a girl, apparently it makes me butch ::).
When I was young my father, right in front of me at times would say to my mother "as long as he's not gay" in reference to the things I did that didn't fit the boy I looked to have been. I can't remember what age but it was one of the first times I knew something wasn't right about the person I was.
When I tried to be more 'boy' for him and failed, I stopped paying attention to it.
The worst I get now is there's one person in my life who's been crass enough to call me metrosexual to my face.
About 5-7 times was asked it or told it to my face but usually by people who were either trying to understand me.
Once I was staring and checking out a cute guy who was very very slim - part of me wanted to look like that guy so my transition would be easier - another part of me found that guy cute and attractive - a colleague asked me if I liked him - all I could do was giggle and say yes. It was that obvious on my face. ::)
Although once a kid my age but about three to four times my size make a lewd comment & gestured that I masturbated with my bust/boobs when I was about 14-15 years old, after throwing my stuff down - the throwing stuff down I ignored but the comment sent me into a fit of anger.
I reacted by knocking him down and kicking the c**p out of him. It took about 5-6 kids maybe more my age to stop me... ::) ;D
However, behind my back am sure I was called that a lot.
edit - that comment pissed me off cause at the time that's how I masturbated.
also conditioning kinda worked on me but made an awkward recluse and I just started avoiding people and not talking to people because I felt I was no longer myself.
I was called "skinny bitch" many times and "Michelle" so many times I can't count, this was all while I was clearly presenting as male while growing up and even as an adult.
And a few times I've heard "yer such a girl" when I get all animated talking about art projects.
Those people might have thought they were teasing, but I actually liked hearing those words directed at me ;)
People say it about me all the time. I remember, at the pub the conclusion was that I was a lapsing FtM, which made me laugh.
The last time I was regularly called "gay" or "->-bleeped-<-" with malicious intent would've been in high school, 20+ years ago. Then, I didn't bother to count the occurrences, but it was a regular thing.
In the mid 1990s I had a coworker who would tease me about wearing pink dress shirts.
Since then, there had been times when questions motivated by polite curiosity about my sexual orientation. In the one case, it was a co-worker who was talking with me about my transition and divorce. In the other case, it was queer woman who knows about my transition, and who I think might have been trying to determine compatibility.
Oddly enough, never. When presenting as a man, I'm not macho in any way (kinda skinny, nerdy, not into sports) but no one has ever doubted my masculinity.
I was sneered at for being "girly" once because I like purple. Last spring a few people assumed I was a tomboy and acted all shocked when I wore a skirt. A couple of my friends said I definitely wasn't girly.
In other words, I'm all over the map and it's other people's problem if they want to put me in one small category.
*Shrug* People have assumed I'm gay since I was 10, some with malicious intent, some not. I didn't really keep track. A few hundred? More?
Quote from: Edge on October 04, 2012, 12:55:28 PM
I was sneered at for being "girly" once because I like purple.
Purple is the best colour in the world.
How many times? A lifetime.
Ativan
Only those I know who are just joking, never maliciously to my face!
At my first job a customer called me something when I was out of earshot. The owner heard it and was so furious that he returned the customer's money from the drawer and said that he wasn't welcome back in the shop.
A few months ago a friend told me my body was unattractive because it looked like a little boy's. I told him I didn't mind, because I wasn't planning on having sex with him anyway.
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on October 04, 2012, 01:44:31 PM
How many times? A lifetime.
Ativan
I saw your post before you sniped it. ;)
I think we older ones have seen a lot more of the burning hatred society can dish up.
The 60s saw the peak of intolerance with the KKK, lynchings, civil rights, women's rites, catholic/ protestant, the cold war the Vietnam war the MAN ect.
Amongst the cries for peace and brotherhood Everyone learned to hate everybody .
It hasn't been that long ago and those fears get deeply ingrained in our minds.That probably has a lot to do with the fact that so many of us transition now. ->-bleeped-<- has become tolerated.No such thing in the 60's.
The 70s saw me in high school hangin with the other girly boys.
Ear rings and bell bottoms were starting to become fashionable for guys so a friend tried them out. Didn't take long to start hearing the f words ring out.
Several days later my friend shows up at school with a bandage on his ear. A bully ripped one of them off.
Things are a little better today.Hopefully even better tomorrow.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1310.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs651%2Fjayarrer%2Fme2_zpsc8965429.jpg&hash=b3164d3fec49bc3b45f257dce4af01d480f62ba6) Me in thoes daze
i'm hoping for a tomorrow when not only society, but even parents can accept non-cis and non-heterosexual people
even though i don't particularly care what society thinks about me, it still hurts when my mom tells me straight out that she'd never be able to accept one of her kids as trans or homosexual. how i wish my parents were better at this unconditional love
In school? Counting would have been futile. Gay/queer/->-bleeped-<- were the default insults almost devoid of actual meaning. I'd like to say it didn't bother me, but honestly verbal abuse does. I still don't understand why anyone would be intentijonally hurtful to someone else.
Similarly, quite a few times in online games... with even less meaning. Only in my more distinguished age I recognize it as a sad flaw in the person attempting to insult me, and I don't take it personally.
Very rarely has anyone said anything offensive that was gender- or sexuality-related about me that was actually prompted by anything relevant.
Yes, I snipped it. It was a weak moment of self pity, that isn't as raw as it read.
I have never claimed to be a good person.
I do stand up for those who find it difficult to do that for themselves.
It has gotten me into my share of trouble, but it's worth it.
To dismiss the name calling as having it lost it's meaning by misuse or overuse, is wrong.
Just because it doesn't affect you personally or you can't see that it does someone else, doesn't make it less of a weapon.
It makes it more of one. It is no different than when you become desensitized by armed conflict in other parts of the world.
You become indifferent to the harm that is being caused to others.
When I hear derogatory remarks about peoples physical attributes, it burns.
When I hear derogatory remarks about peoples sexuality, it burns.
When I hear derogatory remarks about someones mental abilities, it burns.
When I hear derogatory remarks about someones gender, it burns.
It is the basis of all hatreds. Finding something different and labeling it as wrong.
To dismiss it as not valid because it is overused or used in the wrong context, is wrong.
It plays right into that fear mongering that it was intended for.
Those who use it and claim immunity because they didn't mean it that way are even worse than those who use it to hurt.
You can't fight back at ignorance. You have to take the fight to the source.
There are few people that actually take the high road. Despite their claims, otherwise.
I don't make that claim, I don't think I could be considered a person who does.
But I ->-bleeped-<-ing try, at the very least. Just hasn't worked out so well, not like I wish it would.
To go through life, ignoring the hurt of others, just because it isn't hurting you, well...
The question is asked, 'how many times you were called...'.
It makes me think of all the times I heard it, eventually growing a very thick skin towards most things.
Except the fact that not everyone has that ability or can find a way to deal with it.
To turn your backs, to ignore that it happens, is just being a part of it.
You have joined in without even knowing it. It's easy to walk away from a fight.
But that doesn't mean you should dismiss it either. You can come back another day.
Sometimes that is a strategy that has to be used. So you can come back.
Walking away from injustice, walking away from bigotry and bullying, perpetuate it.
You acknowledge that they are stronger than you.
I paid my dues, and I am a broken person. I live with it.
But I am not weak. I still fight the good fight, for those who can't. Even for those who won't.
Everyone has their own reasons for what they do. Fine.
Just don't make excuses for it. It weakens you.
I snipped it because that is what I wrote. An excuse.
It doesn't change anything, it wouldn't change anything.
It was a weak moment, and I admit it.
When I do that, I'm not any good at fighting, something that I am good at doing, most of the time.
Hate is fueled by the words that are used.
Words hurt. They can hurt enough that sometimes you can't endure it any longer.
Sometimes people do things that hurt themselves, sometimes it's hard to endure.
My advice is to take the high road. If that isn't possible, then by all means endure the low road.
It's better than standing there at the crossroads with your thumb up your ass making excuses.
Just don't forget that you aren't the only one, there is always someone that needs some help.
It's a touchy subject for me. I have lost too many friends over the years.
With the ability of mass communication, we can become more immune to it, but it will continue.
Or we can use communication to fight it and win. One battle at a time.
Our time as Trans* people is coming, we are winning our civil rights.
We are taking them back, away from the fear mongers.
Those people who call others names, out of their own fears.
We have the right to not ignore it. So don't. You don't have to.
'Yes I am', think about it.
Ativan
Quote from: Joann on October 05, 2012, 06:27:46 AM
I saw your post before you sniped it. ;)
I think we older ones have seen a lot more of the burning hatred society can dish up.
The 60s saw the peak of intolerance with the KKK, lynchings, civil rights, women's rites, catholic/ protestant, the cold war the Vietnam war the MAN ect.
Amongst the cries for peace and brotherhood Everyone learned to hate everybody .
It hasn't been that long ago and those fears get deeply ingrained in our minds.That probably has a lot to do with the fact that so many of us transition now. ->-bleeped-<- has become tolerated.No such thing in the 60's.
The 70s saw me in high school hangin with the other girly boys.
Ear rings and bell bottoms were starting to become fashionable for guys so a friend tried them out. Didn't take long to start hearing the f words ring out.
Several days later my friend shows up at school with a bandage on his ear. A bully ripped one of them off.
Things are a little better today. Hopefully even better tomorrow.
I can totally relate to this, high school was difficult enough being gay OMG it's a wonder I survived, but in the 10th grade I had a shower incident with most of the football team returning form practice early, after that I wasn't picked on anymore by the team and when someone else did within a day or 2 I had an apology. The details would be TMI to post PM me if you gotta know, I can talk about it now my therapist says it's good therapy :-)
When referring to someone as a homo, that moron has simply just confirmed that the person being spoken about is simply a member of the human species.
Quote from: Shantel on October 05, 2012, 12:18:12 PM
When referring to someone as a homo, that moron has simply just confirmed that the person being spoken about is simply a member of the human species.
It's the intention, not the true meaning, that hurts.
The moron knows this. Regardless if they understand the origin of the word or not.
Disarming a moron is simple. Just agree with them.
'Yes I am'. They have just lost their best weapon, a word that hurts.
Now they have to think.
You are at the crossroads.
Ativan
I think it's easier to count the times I've been seen as manly than gay.
I've spent my whe life being seen as gay, no matter what I did to not be seen that way. Names like, '->-bleeped-<-', 'queerboy', or 'Gay Gnome', were a regular insult to me growing up.
Even my parents would ask if I was gay. I've been beaten many times because I was seen as gay.
Needless to say that when I came out as trans, there weren't too many who were surprised. My ex-girlfriend from high school said that when she found out, the pieces to the puzzle just fell into place.
Now that I'm A woman, people see me as just another girl.
My sister, Jannie, once said to me, " it's funny how you try to be butch, but you're not."
I think she is right, but I'm not a girly girl either.
I was called all kind of bad thing in daily basis between the ages of 6 to 12 years. After that nobody has said anything to my face, and if they do, hum, retribution will be in kind
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on October 05, 2012, 01:23:44 PM
It's the intention, not the true meaning, that hurts.
The moron knows this. Regardless if they understand the origin of the word or not.
Disarming a moron is simple. Just agree with them.
'Yes I am'. They have just lost their best weapon, a word that hurts.
Now they have to think.
You are at the crossroads.
Ativan
That's called verbal judo or something like that, yes it does work even on morons!
true, that works. how glad wasn't i the day i figured it out...
easiest way to make sure you're able to disarm any stranger is to know all the offending words that may apply to yourself and simply admit that you're that too. i've taken back all the words currently classified as derogatory about my race/ethnicity, by calling myself with these words nobody can offend me in the least by using them. i also got used to being called bitch and creep because of two really cute guys who use them differently from what people usually do
but oddly enough, i still can't get used to "girl". maybe because this is one of the things that i am not, so i doesn't feel so nice when i'm called it. except from on those few days when i am one after all
Or you can drive them crazy with the other correct definitions of some the terms. ;)
I always thought it was odd that I have been called the "girly" slurs over time, but cant ever recall being called "gay"
And I have always been gay friendly, and usually that alone would get you teased back in the 70's...I just cant explain it
Quote from: Shantel on October 05, 2012, 05:05:42 PM
That's called verbal judo or something like that, yes it does work even on morons!
Taekwonwordo ;), morons are defenseless against it.
But please don't hurt the morons, they may not be able to help it.
Sometimes they are just mimicking those who hate.
They are being used by the bullies.
It works quite well on those who should know better.
Their fears light up when they have to stop and think.
Ativan
I'm sure that people probably think I'm a lesbian or something, but I've never heard any of it. A friend says that I have a "a straight aura," but I don't really know what that means. ::)
The most relevant incident that comes to mind is prom. Usually, I wear jeans and T-shirts and more boy-ish/nerdy ones at that. So, when I showed up to prom, all dolled up and make-uped, a friend said "You look like a girl!" And that put a slight damper on the evening. :laugh:
Quote from: hazelspikes on October 08, 2012, 01:45:06 PM
I'm sure that people probably think I'm a lesbian or something, but I've never heard any of it. A friend says that I have a "a straight aura," but I don't really know what that means. ::)
The most relevant incident that comes to mind is prom. Usually, I wear jeans and T-shirts and more boy-ish/nerdy ones at that. So, when I showed up to prom, all dolled up and make-uped, a friend said "You look like a girl!" And that put a slight damper on the evening. :laugh:
Hah, that's so funny! I get that all the time because though I'm a developed MtF I present in jeans, T-shirt and baseball cap most of the time. We're opposite sides of the same fence Hazelspikes! :D
Quote from: Sarah7 on October 04, 2012, 01:39:25 PM
Purple is the best colour in the world.
So very true :D
For me it was usually bitch, dyke or she-male and I never bothered counting. Waste of my time.
Quote from: Shantel on October 08, 2012, 02:04:50 PM
Hah, that's so funny! I get that all the time because though I'm a developed MtF I present in jeans, T-shirt and baseball cap most of the time. We're opposite sides of the same fence Hazelspikes! :D
Hahahah high five! :laugh:
So, we meet in a clearing somewhere in the forest. Yay! :)
Probably about as much as everyone else. Nobody knows about me.
Hmm.. Until the last two years, I had that "straight aura" around me, and that association was the one that really hurt. I can be many things, but sexually I'm so very, very far from being straight that it made everything awkward and uncomfortable.
But been called straight has at times been funny, too. Recently one person joked that I "act straight only when drunk". When I started thinking about how wrong that sentence was on so many levels, the whole thing just felt ridiculous - it'd be more true to say I act on my gay instincts mostly only when drunk. :P
Other than that, I've not been called names much. Maybe I will, soon - I kind of stand out nowadays with my clothing and all. I call myself queer and don't recognize that as an insult. Some people have started to think I'm butch, and that I can live with. After cutting my hair one lesbian friend commented "you have such a lesbian haircut now..." and that left me with mixed feelings. It seems some people think I've found an identity as a lesbian and try to act like one by dressing in laddish clothes... And I can't really blame them, it's a lot rarer to meet an androgyne trying to look more like themself than a newly-found lesbian wanting to look butch, after all.
Quote from: Phoeniks on October 09, 2012, 11:07:53 AM
I can't really blame them, it's a lot rarer to meet an androgyne trying to look more like themself than a newly-found lesbian wanting to look butch, after all.
Or an MtF just wanting to present androgyne and not be stuffed in some other box for the sake of the onlooker's comfort! Hang in there Phoeniks, it gets better as self assurance sets in and is projected outwardly that quietly says, "I could give a rat's a** what you think!" :)
Quote from: big kim on October 09, 2012, 02:21:54 AM
When i was a bus driver I refused to let a guy on the bus as it was full he called me an Fing dyke,I told him he should get his facts right before coming out with statements like that and I am bi sexual.The whole load of passengers laughed their asses off at him which got him mad.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
The best advice I ever read about gender, I think it has a lot to do with presentation or how a person will be perceived.
I think it applies just as well to a person's orientation.
This is always in the back of my mind when I start to have doubts about myself and how I am perceived.
(one of the many pearls of wisdom I have read from others here.)
Gender has no meaning or value if it is counterfeit.
Counterfeit gender is just a game, a trick, an amusement,
an act, a fraud, a deception, an imitation, artificial, bogus.
Be yourself, not a gender.
Being yourself is effortless and genuine.
Being yourself is REAL, not counterfeit.
In being yourself, in behaving in a manner which is natural to you,
whatever gender you are becomes self-evident.
-Emerald
Just trying to be me, not an orientation, not a presentation, not a gender.
Just non-binary, like I am.
Ativan
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on October 09, 2012, 02:27:37 PM
Just trying to be me, not an orientation, not a presentation, not a gender.
Just non-binary, like I am.
Ativan
Great post Ativan, so true!