Susan's Place Transgender Resources

When I examine the angst and effort that goes into my transition, I'm noticing that the lion's share deals with trying to pass. If I lightened up, and just tried to enjoy womanhood without trying to pass, there would be a lot less pressure and a lot more fun.

OTOH being accepted as a woman by strangers is a big deal. Half efforts don't help with this. If you're going to pass, you need to do whatever it takes.

Where do you stand on this?

Passing is extremely important to me. I do pass for the most part naturally but I still wont go anywhere without makeup. I'll be damned if some stranger calls me a sir. That said, it only takes me about 15 minutes to tweeze my eyebrows and put on makeup, brush my hair, put on clothes and ... pass! But I know even if I don't pass with some, I'm right there borderline between passing and non passing. In that case,  my personality and who I am kick in, which is a 150% pass, so they'll see me as a female even if they know I'm trans. Well... unless they're socially retarded bigots, there's no hope for those morons and they don't deserve somebody as good as me.

I hope that didn't come off as arrogant, but I am pretty confident with my ability to pass.

I sort of pass from a distance in low lighting conditions. Its important to me and I know I've gotten a good bit more vain than I was pre-transition. I put a little effort into my presentation, mostly making sure I look well dressed, even in casual attire, and that there are not any glaringly obvious male cues to confuse anyone.

Quote from: agfrommd on October 23, 2012, 11:39:12 AM
If I lightened up, and just tried to enjoy womanhood without trying to pass, there would be a lot less pressure and a lot more fun.

And you will pass better if you relax. Passing is 70% pure confidence.

You can add another 25% by getting a half decent voice, no obvious beard shadow and dressing appropriately for your age. Learning to move like woman helps too.

Everything else fits in the remaining 5%

I found it simply amazing when I realised how important confidence was. I had decided that most of the people I met would never see me again so their opinions on how I looked or what they thought of me were irrelevant. Since I would probably never see them again why worry about what they think?

As soon as I did that I relaxed and people stopped staring at me. If you look like you have nothing to worry about people ignore you. The second you look stressed they pick it up and watch you like a hawk.

Walk around like you own the place. If someone looks at you think "I do not care what you make of me", smile slightly and break eye contact and go about your business. They will stop looking at you and thus you 'pass'.

It takes practice. Just do it and after a few days you will see the truth of it (assuming you do not have a beard down to your waist or make loud belching and f*rting noises)

Though I take steps to appear feminine when I'm in public, I'm resigned to the likelihood that I will never completely pass. As such, it has dropped off my list of goals for transition.

Basically, I need to transition to be the best person I can be. My primary goal is to change my point of view on the world, and not the world's point of view on me (which is largely beyond my control anyway). Anything beyond that which occurs, such as being instantly regarded as female by strangers, is pure gravy.

Lora
http://translora.wordpress.com (http://translora.wordpress.com)

I don't pass but I'm accepted most places.I'm 6'3" big build with big hands & feet.There's not a lot I can do about that.I could try harder for a better voice it's still not there but I kind of pass,I usually wear my hair up or in a plait or high pony tail,I have it highlighted,I usually wear eye liner mascara and lip gloss, I've never worn foundation or powder since finishing electrolysis.I worked as a bus driver for 10 years and after a couple of months the novelty of having a TS driver wore off and most people were OK.If they weren't they ended up burning shoe leather!

I work pretty hard to look my best even though I know I don't pass. Occasionally, I will pass but usually those people have been drinking...a lot. Just because I don't pass, doesn't mean I don't want to look my best. I would love to pass, but if I constantly obsess over it I would never be able to go out and have fun.

It varies from person to person. Some people don't care and write passing off as something that'll never happen. Other people won't transition unless they know they will. None of them are more right than any other, you know? It's all what you need to do to live a happy life. If some said "I don't want to transition unless I'm basically unclockable" that's their prerogative just like someone who says "I'm just throwing on a dress and I don't care about anything else." Just two different approaches. Whatever works for each person is what we should all respect, you know?

For me, I knew who I was and I was comfortable with who I was but my goal was to have society see me as who I saw myself as, if that makes sense. I didn't really see the point to transition unless all the people I'd be running into saw a girl and not a boy. I don't know what I would have done if that wouldn't have happened, but I think it's important to figure out how important passability is to you before you "decide" to transition. Nothing is guaranteed at all, but it's good to know where you stand with it.

For me passing and being seen & accepted as a woman is of utmost importance. THere was a time, in my 20's, when I gave in to the All In or All out option, twice! That is if I didn't/couldn't pass then forget about transition. Now it is a notch lower. Back then both times I opted for All Out. I didn't feel I could pass, I felt like "Some guy in a dress", I didn't have the self confidence, I had nearly no self esteem. I had just finished up about 12-15 years of my 20 or so of living being a BIG target. No way could I voluntarily put myself in that position for the remainder of my life.

Quote from: bev2 on October 23, 2012, 12:27:03 PM
And you will pass better if you relax. Passing is 70% pure confidence.

You can add another 25% by getting a half decent voice, no obvious beard shadow and dressing appropriately for your age. Learning to move like woman helps too.

Everything else fits in the remaining 5%

I found it simply amazing when I realised how important confidence was.... It takes practice. Just do it and after a few days you will see the truth of it (assuming you do not have a beard down to your waist or make loud belching and f*rting noises)

So very true. It may have taken me 30+ years to learn that , but I know I am far better off than if I forged headstrong into transition and failed miserably. I know failing, given my emotional state, was inevitable.

I pretty much pass at 6ft, big boned, deep voiced, bald, stuttering, 4 eyed and super extra large feet. I haven't been any happier in my life. Now if ONLY I can figure out which fork in the road I should take  :(

I am a professional woman with a deep voice, working two jobs, and a single parent. Home chores include: lots of cooking, grocery shopping, doctors appointments, after-school activities, home-works; G-d that lives me with very little time to worry about passing (or not)

Frankly dear, I do not give a damn

Quote from: peky on October 23, 2012, 08:47:39 PM
I am a professional woman with a deep voice, working two jobs, and a single parent. Home chores include: lots of cooking, grocery shopping, doctors appointments, after-school activities, home-works; G-d that lives me with very little time to worry about passing (or not)

Wow! I do all that plus I have to take care of my...wife. I prefer to call her my "Son's mother", or my "soon to be ex". It is a busy life.

 Passing's pretty important to me, because it's very demoralizing when I run into situations where I don't. That is, however, just a personal weakness.

I really need to feel like I'm passing among people. I do not have the discipline to accept social criticism, which is surprising since I was ridiculed constantly during my childhood and adolescence. I'd have figured I'd be desensitized to meanies by now.

Nah, I just get panic attacks that exacerbate the situation. So I gotta pass. :(

Even though I'm out and most everyone that knows me knows. I still want to pass to those who don't know me. passing comes and goes. 50/50 thing. I want to look like, act like, and feel like a woman. When I think about where I am in my transition all I see is it is not enough I need more. I was not wearing make-up but I do know everyday and yes at this point it does help me pass and long hair has helped me so much. At some point I may even move away from home to pass if things don't change.

I don't care about the word "passing".  I tended to lean towards "blending in."  That being said, yes I work at blending.  It is important that I be seen as a woman.  But blending is more attitude than anything.  A self-confident strong woman will be seen for who she is, a woman.

Hi everyone;

As I think I have posted before Confidence is everything. When I lived full time for nearly 18 months and before I transitioned the first times out were nerve wracking, but it helped that I had girlfriends with me. But the first time out on my own was tough. But  there are defintly some things to remember:

1. Dress to your age - If you over 40 no tarty micro minis
2. Don't overdress - less is easier to pass
3. Make sure your eyebrows are shaped in perfect curve
4. Wear a nice but subtle lipstick - No glaring reds. a soft pink is good , maybe with lip gloss
5. Take time getting your makeup right
6. Wear perfume - not too much
7. If you have a prominent Adams Apple - hide it with a colour co-ordinated scarf (I am very lucky that I don't have an Adams Apple at all)
8. Keep you head up and look as though you own the space you are in and enjoy yourself
9. If you are wearing short sleeves or sleeveless tops or dress, make sure your arms are waxed or Hair free and very importantly - no hair under the armpits.
10. If you are going to wear a dress - the same goes - wax or shave your legs. Don't forget it should preferably be the whole leg and bikini line. You don't want hairs appearing above the knee when you sit down in a dress.
11. Get your ears pierced and wear some nice earrings.  Something like hoop[s or dangly is good. If you cant wear pierced earrings then use Clip ons
12. If you are going sleeveless, wear a ladies watch and some bangles
13. I have a fake diamond engagement ring which I have with my wedding band. Together it looks as though I am a married woman
13. For shoes wear flats or wedges, unless you are perfectly comfortable in heels. Wedges are big in season this year.
14. Walk slowly - remember women take smaller length steps than men
15. In the Mall do lots of window shopping, don't hesiititate in browsing the clothing racks.
16. As others have said confidence is the biggest thing, followed  by dress sense, then make-up look etc

On an earlier post I talked about getting my Colour Analysis down - See House of Colour in the United Kingdom. They have branches all over the world. This was by far the best money I have spent in my transition. I had a whole day finding out what was right for me at my local Agent in Exeter.  I  learnt so much about what colours to wear, what make up colurs to use, what not to wear etc. For instance I love wearing sheep black stockings, but as an Autumn person Black is out for me.  (See: http://www.houseofcolour.co.uk (http://www.houseofcolour.co.uk))

Best of luck.

Hugs
JudithLynn

The idealist in me wants to say "No! Why should you care!", but I can't deny that passing brings about HUGE privileges and that it's tough not to really want those privileges.

On the other hand, if you can be happy even without passing and just being yourself I think that sets you apart as a sweet person. People that brave are hard to run into and I find that a huge character plus, that someone can just be them self.

Quote from: judithlynn on October 24, 2012, 12:32:40 AM
Hi everyone;

As I think I have posted before Confidence is everything. When I lived full time for nearly 18 months and before I transitioned the first times out were nerve wracking, but it helped that I had girlfriends with me. But the first time out on my own was tough. But  there are defintly some things to remember:

Confidence is a pretty big factor, for sure. However, it should be remembered that there are fewer rules than some people seem to think there are about being a woman...

You don't have to act prissy or 'flamboyantly'. I mean, some women do this, but most don't. I also find that most women, at least at my age, don't really wear skirts, and the majority tend not to wear heeled shoes. Many do, though, so it's really up to when you feel like it - it's just good to remember that you don't need to wear those things. There are also many girls who don't wear earrings, because having pierced ears is annoying, and many who don't care for window shopping or stereotypical 'feminine' walking.

They just act the way they are. I mean, they're definitely feminine in how they act, come across, look, and dress, but they don't need to make a statement that they are feminine. They just are, and they don't have to try. So, if you're trying to pass... just let your femininity come naturally, and don't try too hard. Trying too hard is how you get clocked.

If you're naturally masculine, however, then yeah... you might want to put in that extra effort. In theory, MtFs shouldn't be masculine unless they're older where it's a case of societal conditioning (unless you're the kind of person who doesn't let others shape who you are), but for those who are... keep in mind that femininity is just as subtle as it is obvious, and it's just as graceful and exotic as it is plain and simple.

I work way too hard at passing... It matters a great deal because i want this to be real, i dont enjoy akward looks and rude comments, i like to be treated as a woman without being humoured.

Despite my effort im surprised when i do pass, and every so often i recieve a comment that ruins my week.

Quote from: Kelly J. P. on October 24, 2012, 12:54:37 AM
Confidence is a pretty big factor, for sure. However, it should be remembered that there are fewer rules than some people seem to think there are about being a woman...

You don't have to act prissy or 'flamboyantly'. I mean, some women do this, but most don't. I also find that most women, at least at my age, don't really wear skirts, and the majority tend not to wear heeled shoes. Many do, though, so it's really up to when you feel like it - it's just good to remember that you don't need to wear those things. There are also many girls who don't wear earrings, because having pierced ears is annoying, and many who don't care for window shopping or stereotypical 'feminine' walking.

They just act the way they are. I mean, they're definitely feminine in how they act, come across, look, and dress, but they don't need to make a statement that they are feminine. They just are, and they don't have to try. So, if you're trying to pass... just let your femininity come naturally, and don't try too hard. Trying too hard is how you get clocked.

If you're naturally masculine, however, then yeah... you might want to put in that extra effort. In theory, MtFs shouldn't be masculine unless they're older where it's a case of societal conditioning (unless you're the kind of person who doesn't let others shape who you are), but for those who are... keep in mind that femininity is just as subtle as it is obvious, and it's just as graceful and exotic as it is plain and simple.

Yep :)

This is exactly what helps me pass, and even keep passing after I've told someone.

"I know a whole lot of ->-bleeped-<-s, and I can't stand them, but you are just easy to be around" "You are so laid back", "It's funny, because I know I'm talking to a boy, but I can't help but think I'm talking to a girl", "You are just you -  a girl." "You don't demand attention" "All the trans people I have known in my life and you pass better than all of them - even the FtMs." "It's not just your looks, everything you do is female!" "You were so meek as a boy... all of that is gone. You are easier to be around now!" "It's weird, nothing about you has changed... just you look and talk a little different and you're so much more comfortable. I thought it would be harder to call you my sister" "I just can't believe you aren't cis... your body language, what makes you emotional, everything is girl and it just looks so natural for you"

^ These are the things you should be hearing from people who know, or knew you pre transition. When you hear these things, you KNOW you blend.

Hi.

Im an intersexed woman.  born both male / female at birth, How i look is irrelevant,  very masculine facial features,

After being in the media interviewed for our two main T V stations nation wide, for papers & the net, talked to large groups & seen by 1000's of people, . i dought my looks had any thing to do with what iv been able to do. & judgeing by the comments iv received,  no one cares because they have looked past how i look or dont,

Im accepted as a full women ,live as one & work with many people, who know my background so whats left to be bothered about, not only here in N Z , Austraila as well. & Thailand .

Im known as noeleena & thats my name,  allso a member of socity & many groups,

So for my self what has any of this to do with passing or blending in ,in my case total nothing,

& had i passed would i have had the opoortunity to do what iv done over the last few years,

id have to say ....no.....I belive to be accepted is the most impotaint detail not how one looks & that iv proved time & time again.

...noeleena...

I newer pass well as a boy, I was always called a girl or at age over 20 can pass as small boy  ::)
So after 4 months of low dose I pass 100%

I think.. Iv'e gone far and beyond just wanting to pass.. X.X

There was a time where I just wanted to pass as female period.
Now Iv'e set my standard even higher to be prettier than most women. Somewhere along the line I wanted to become flawless and took a liking to the porcelain look. Something about being beautiful just screams a big ->-bleeped-<- you to all the haters of my past and I am proud yet content with my current appearance. So in essence, once I began to pass I just kept the ball rolling and now I'm in a whole different area with different appearance goals..

As for makeup, I try to keep it natural and flawless focusing on my skin. I do go out at night to 711 sometimes without makeup, or to walk around my dorm. I don't like going out makeup-less but I will do it at times.

*My biggest complex is without makeup I still see a 10 year old boy in the mirror...

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on October 24, 2012, 01:33:39 AM
^ These are the things you should be hearing from people who know, or knew you pre transition. When you hear these things, you KNOW you blend.

People don't talk to me.

Quote from: peky on October 23, 2012, 08:47:39 PM
I am a professional woman with a deep voice, working two jobs, and a single parent. Home chores include: lots of cooking, grocery shopping, doctors appointments, after-school activities, home-works; G-d that lives me with very little time to worry about passing (or not)

Frankly dear, I do not give a damn

yeah, and most days I do without any make up, and when I do put make up is only eyeshowds, eyeliner, and blush. No fundations of any kind.

@ Brooke777, I also take care of 4 dogs and 2 cats  >:-)

Quote from: peky on October 24, 2012, 12:48:55 PM
@ Brooke777, I also take care of 4 dogs and 2 cats  >:-)

I will trade you my son's mother for the 4 dogs and 2 cats ;D ;D I will even pay you monthly for expenses.

Passing as a woman in the eyes of others is a major boost of confidence... and an important goal of transition.

Problem is some see it as a beauty contest within themselves, when its not.  Passing is about feeling and being acknowledged as a woman, beauty can be augmented.

I have seen XX Females that have more masculine faces than most people on this forum...

Quote from: yasuko14 on October 24, 2012, 02:57:29 AM
I think.. Iv'e gone far and beyond just wanting to pass.. X.X

There was a time where I just wanted to pass as female period.
Now Iv'e set my standard even higher to be prettier than most women. Somewhere along the line I wanted to become flawless and took a liking to the porcelain look. Something about being beautiful just screams a big <not allowed> you to all the haters of my past and I am proud yet content with my current appearance. So in essence, once I began to pass I just kept the ball rolling and now I'm in a whole different area with different appearance goals..

I'm in the same boat. Women pretty much all do the same thing. But of course if you're prettier than they are, they're freaking haters. I used to LOVE cis women pre-hrt. I loved my ->-bleeped-<--hags. Now most of them I meet are snotty brats that don't even smile when talking to me unless there's a reason for them to be nice. But of course you tell them you're trans... they love ya! They know if a guy they want is hitting on you, they can just tell him your secret....

Quote from: Kelly J. P. on October 24, 2012, 02:58:55 AM
People don't talk to me.

Not even your family? Half of those comments came from friends that knew me before, or my brother or sister.

Quote from: Rita on October 24, 2012, 12:52:36 PM
Passing as a woman in the eyes is a major boost of confidence... and an important goal of transition.

Problem is some see it as a beauty contest within themselves, when its not.  Passing is about feeling and being acknowledged as a woman, beauty can be augmented.

Beauty is a competitive instrument among women. Most cis girls want to be beautiful.

I don't pass most of the time, when I do it's the best feeling in the world.

Because I can't always use make-up, I can't be my true self right now, once i've had my shadow removed i'll start full time straight away.
For me it's more important that I feel comfortable with myself, for example i'm off to the shops in  a minute, I haven't been able to wear make-up for a week so i'm wearing jeans & a long sleeved top, I know they're from the womens clothing section but most people wont notice.
They may notice my butterfly earings & bright red nails bit I don't care.

I also don't care if people think i'm ugly or beautiful, as long as people see me as female everything else is negotiable

I haven't voted on the poll as none of the options seem right for me, my vote would be something like "I try to pass when I can but if I don't i'm not going to let it get in the way of me living my life"

Quote from: Jayne on October 24, 2012, 01:19:41 PM
I also don't care if people think i'm ugly or beautiful, as long as people see me as female everything else is negotiable

I also thought this... it's amazing how that changes if you blend.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on October 24, 2012, 02:02:55 PM
I also thought this... it's amazing how that changes if you blend.

I'd thought for years that being pretty was one of the most important things in transitioning but had to think long & hard about that when my mother stated that I shouldn't transition as i'd be an ugly woman.
It hurt to hear that from her but after quite a bit of soul searching I realised that being pretty/beautiful isn't my top priority.

I've changed my mind once so I wouldn't be shocked if I see-saw on this opinion for years.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on October 24, 2012, 02:02:55 PM
I also thought this... it's amazing how that changes if you blend.

Maybe at your age. I am a good 20 years older than you and that part of my life (attracting others) has been dormant for a long, long time. Being accepted and looking as feminine as I can manage is all I want.

I would rather be pretty than ugly, but I would far, far, far rather be accepted as a woman.

Quote from: bev2 on October 24, 2012, 02:51:24 PM
I would far, far, far rather be accepted as a woman.

True. As I told my former classmate, I'd rather be the ugliest girl than the prettiest guy.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on October 24, 2012, 02:54:20 PM
True. As I told my former classmate, I'd rather be the ugliest girl than the prettiest guy.

This is the point I find myself at right now.

Quote from: bev2 on October 23, 2012, 12:27:03 PM
And you will pass better if you relax. Passing is 70% pure confidence.

You can add another 25% by getting a half decent voice, no obvious beard shadow and dressing appropriately for your age. Learning to move like woman helps too.

Everything else fits in the remaining 5%

I found it simply amazing when I realised how important confidence was. I had decided that most of the people I met would never see me again so their opinions on how I looked or what they thought of me were irrelevant. Since I would probably never see them again why worry about what they think?

As soon as I did that I relaxed and people stopped staring at me. If you look like you have nothing to worry about people ignore you. The second you look stressed they pick it up and watch you like a hawk.

Walk around like you own the place. If someone looks at you think "I do not care what you make of me", smile slightly and break eye contact and go about your business. They will stop looking at you and thus you 'pass'.

It takes practice. Just do it and after a few days you will see the truth of it (assuming you do not have a beard down to your waist or make loud belching and f*rting noises)

This covers it.

All the "other stuff" really is about 5% or less. I "passed' + lived full time for several years with no HRT, No electrolysis, really nothing other than paying attention that I -looked reasonable- for my age/where I was and just attitude.

I didn't see anything on the list of choices that fits me. Being treated as a woman is what I care about. I'm not concerned if I pass as a natal female. I do want to look cute/attractive and I do work at that.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on October 24, 2012, 12:53:49 PM

Not even your family? Half of those comments came from friends that knew me before, or my brother or sister.

Oh. Those particular people talk to me.

I don't get those comments though.

Quote from: Stephe on October 24, 2012, 04:39:47 PM

This covers it.

All the "other stuff" really is about 5% or less. I "passed' + lived full time for several years with no HRT, No electrolysis, really nothing other than paying attention that I -looked reasonable- for my age/where I was and just attitude.

I didn't see anything on the list of choices that fits me. Being treated as a woman is what I care about. I'm not concerned if I pass as a natal female. I do want to look cute/attractive and I do work at that.

I really don't think presentation is that important I think it really just comes down to physically how you come across. Do you look physically male or female? Is what people usually just ask themselves.

Quote from: CoolCat on October 24, 2012, 08:37:54 PM
I really don't think presentation is that important I think it really just comes down to physically how you come across. Do you look physically male or female? Is what people usually just ask themselves.

Guess we have to agree to disagree.

One thing I have noted on most trans forums I have read, the people who aren't living full time yet all think getting every little detail of their appearance perfect is what will make them pass/be accepted by society while people who are living full time -mostly- say it's more about your attitude and self confidence. Without that, it doesn't matter how "passable" you look. Sure you have to look reasonably close to your target gender but there is more to how the person acts/sounds etc than their appearance. I guess online we focus on what someone looks like in pictures so much we start to believe that is what matters most?

Yasuk014, I see you are living a dorm.  How is this going for you being preop?  I am preop and didn't think I could handle a dorm of guys so have a single apartment near campus, which is working fine for me.

Quote from: mm on October 24, 2012, 09:28:13 PM
Yasuk014, I see you are living a dorm.  How is this going for you being preop?  I am preop and didn't think I could handle a dorm of guys so have a single apartment near campus, which is working fine for me.

Hmm in my college you can live with the gender you associate with. I did have a roommate one semester and It worked out great, She had no idea and It was no issue. That was my freshman year, now I have a single dorm room on a girls floor and my boyfriend essentially lives with me.

I enrolled into college as female & I have been on hormones half my life so I don't really have any problems passing or any secrets that can be seen behind closed doors.. Usually just seeing breasts is enough for another girl to look away and think nothing. I could never imagine living with males oh god, that would be so degrading and obvious to everyone.

Does your school not respect your associated gender?
Can you live on campus in a LGBT dorm? (we have a dorm with LGBT floors) allows coed, any form of couples and so on.
Or do you just feel uncomfortable letting loose with another person around to see everything before makeup face and after a shower?
And did you register as male or female? It gets hard If your recorded enrolled gender does not match the one you present in daily life.

Quote from: Stephe on October 24, 2012, 09:11:35 PM
Guess we have to agree to disagree.

One thing I have noted on most trans forums I have read, the people who aren't living full time yet all think getting every little detail of their appearance perfect is what will make them pass/be accepted by society while people who are living full time -mostly- say it's more about your attitude and self confidence. Without that, it doesn't matter how "passable" you look. Sure you have to look reasonably close to your target gender but there is more to how the person acts/sounds etc than their appearance. I guess online we focus on what someone looks like in pictures so much we start to believe that is what matters most?

I sort of agree, but I'll add that if your appearance isn't full on female - your voice better be spot on perfect. Voice can really tip the scale more than anything else. And the trans girls tend to think it's all about pitch - it is NOT. It's all about resonance and inflection. Resonance can be tough to correct I suppose but inflection can take you a very far way. I know a male that talks with a female inflection but a slightly masculine resonance, and a very deep pitch and he is CONSTANTLY maamed in drive throughs and on the phone. Furthermore, I was watching TV from a distance (I have poor eyesight) and Ross Matthews was on TV, and I had to ask "Is that a lesbian or a guy?"

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on October 24, 2012, 12:53:49 PM
I'm in the same boat. Women pretty much all do the same thing. But of course if you're prettier than they are, they're freaking haters. I used to LOVE cis women pre-hrt. I loved my ->-bleeped-<--hags. Now most of them I meet are snotty brats that don't even smile when talking to me unless there's a reason for them to be nice. But of course you tell them you're trans... they love ya! They know if a guy they want is hitting on you, they can just tell him your secret....

I have this problem bad now!

No girls at my college even want to talk to me. Id say Girls HATE me. I used to have alot of girl friends when I began my transition but then as the years went by I became more and more hated among the female gender because I essentially was loved by guys in my school. I get snobbed and it feels like everyone is afraid of me or judging me because I am attractive. All my gay friends tease me saying I'm very intimidating to guys and girls, but I'm not trying to be. Iv'e turned into an expressionless cold beauty type, because of all the "haters". I think being popular because you're pretty only goes so far, I think Iv'e become isolated because I look unapproachable.

The only friends I have are gay men, lesbians, and Heterosexual females that I knew since childhood. Being with girls used to be comforting and safe for me, now its just full of jealousy and betrayal like a competition. I can't really make friends with guys because they always want something more or send it in that direction and I get disappointed because I wanted a friendship not anything more..
like.. "oh..no.. please don't say what I think you're gonna say.."

I feel really alone.. These days..

Not about passing 100% of the time, but I'd feel quite bad If I was to attract attention all the time and hear on my back "That's a dude". I don't want to go through such a process to still feel like a mockery. I don't have a passable face, so I'd have to rely a lot on confidence, mannerism, voice, etc... And I still don't know if I can obtain these other points. I'd have to reevaluate them when I have more self confidence. For now, I am stuck with the body repairs.

Quote from: yasuko14 on October 25, 2012, 02:01:43 AM
I have this problem bad now!

No girls at my college even want to talk to me. Id say Girls HATE me. I used to have alot of girl friends when I began my transition but then as the years went by I became more and more hated among the female gender because I essentially was loved by guys in my school. I get snobbed and it feels like everyone is afraid of me or judging me because I am attractive. All my gay friends tease me saying I'm very intimidating to guys and girls, but I'm not trying to be. Iv'e turned into an expressionless cold beauty type, because of all the "haters". I think being popular because you're pretty only goes so far, I think Iv'e become isolated because I look unapproachable.

The only friends I have are gay men, lesbians, and Heterosexual females that I knew since childhood. Being with girls used to be comforting and safe for me, now its just full of jealousy and betrayal like a competition. I can't really make friends with guys because they always want something more or send it in that direction and I get disappointed because I wanted a friendship not anything more..
like.. "oh..no.. please don't say what I think you're gonna say.."

I feel really alone.. These days..

I'm sorry yasuko :/. There's this girl in my spanish class who is a lot like that, she's the prettiest girl in the class, but she's also probably the most isolated since no one wants to approach her :(

Yasuko14, I will try to answer your questions.  I am ftm and started back to college as a girl after being out a couple of years.
Does your school not respect your associated gender?
Not really

Can you live on campus in a LGBT dorm? (we have a dorm with LGBT floors) allows coed, any form of couples and so on.
no LGBT dorm or floor in a dorm on my campus

Or do you just feel uncomfortable letting loose with another person around to see everything before makeup face and after a shower?
I could never have another person, stranger around, I am preop so all my girly parts showing and couldn't ever have a guy or another around when I am getting dress.

And did you register as male or female? It gets hard If your recorded enrolled gender does not match the one you present in daily life.
I came back to school as a female on the record, but immediately started dressing more as the guys and now really appear as many of the guys do here at school.  I older students and professors know my history and use he/him with me most of the time.  The newer students may or may not know.  I use the men's restroom in a nearby building where there is little chance of seeing someone I know.  There are unisex or handicap restrooms in the newer buildings on campus.  I am waiting for the time when I get out of school and can only be seen as a guy and can live completely as one.

Quote from: yasuko14 on October 25, 2012, 02:01:43 AM
I have this problem bad now!

No girls at my college even want to talk to me. Id say Girls HATE me. I used to have alot of girl friends when I began my transition but then as the years went by I became more and more hated among the female gender because I essentially was loved by guys in my school. I get snobbed and it feels like everyone is afraid of me or judging me because I am attractive. All my gay friends tease me saying I'm very intimidating to guys and girls, but I'm not trying to be. Iv'e turned into an expressionless cold beauty type, because of all the "haters". I think being popular because you're pretty only goes so far, I think Iv'e become isolated because I look unapproachable.

The only friends I have are gay men, lesbians, and Heterosexual females that I knew since childhood. Being with girls used to be comforting and safe for me, now its just full of jealousy and betrayal like a competition. I can't really make friends with guys because they always want something more or send it in that direction and I get disappointed because I wanted a friendship not anything more..
like.. "oh..no.. please don't say what I think you're gonna say.."

I feel really alone.. These days..

Oh my God, this is so right... every word of it! And men are always stuttering around me. And if a guy actually has the confidence to try, they're either cat calling or they go 0 to 90... like "So do you have any brothers or sisters" to trying to make out with me. Just ruins everything! Either they're too intimidated or they're too horny. I'd love some straight friends  (no offense to homosexuals), because all my friends ever want to do is go to a gay club where I get NO attention except from lesbians. Too bad men just wanna do me and women just wanna keep the men from me. I can see why women say it's easier being a guy!

Quote from: girl you look fierce on October 25, 2012, 04:51:01 AM
@yasuko and alaina

I think the (100% passable) mtf face also can have this kind of... sharp? Look to it that is modelesque and maybe subconsciously a little intimidating to people.

Funnily, I found that other girls are more bubbly around me when I'm with my bf, probably because I look pretty approachable in comparison to him.

You may be right.

For me it's about being me, I discovered many years ago that I not going to be that little hottie in a bikini on the beach, I am a woman and as such I can wear a bikini if I want to or a skirt or a dress you get the picture.

Quote from: CoolCat on October 25, 2012, 08:20:25 AM
I'm sorry yasuko :/. There's this girl in my spanish class who is a lot like that, she's the prettiest girl in the class, but she's also probably the most isolated since no one wants to approach her :(

It really sucks, I had a Japanese class last year and it was everyday of the week. There were tables in the class that seated 2. Everyone was new and I ended up being the only person who sat alone..  3/4 into the semester I eventually began to use the seat next to me to put my over-sized Coach purse on. I guess I was eventually embarrassed at my social lack so I put my purse there like a spoiled brat as if it were intentional.. Sometimes I would go shopping and put stuff on the empty half so I didn't look so... Icy cold..

In high-school It seems like when you're pretty everyone wants to get to know you because the social network in school is so close and everyone knows every juicy bit about eachother. In college everyone's past and life is a mystery so I feel like when there are attractive people around nobody wants to get close, basically a small fear.

I honestly think If I smiled more, It would break the ice, But sadly It isn't really my nature.
I'm not the friendly smily type, more the blunt, loyal, protective, type with really strong eye contact.. So that being said.. I dunno what I should do hahaha.

Quote from: mm on October 25, 2012, 09:11:21 AM
Yasuko14, I will try to answer your questions.  I am ftm and started back to college as a girl after being out a couple of years.
Does your school not respect your associated gender?
Not really

Can you live on campus in a LGBT dorm? (we have a dorm with LGBT floors) allows coed, any form of couples and so on.
no LGBT dorm or floor in a dorm on my campus

Or do you just feel uncomfortable letting loose with another person around to see everything before makeup face and after a shower?
I could never have another person, stranger around, I am preop so all my girly parts showing and couldn't ever have a guy or another around when I am getting dress.

And did you register as male or female? It gets hard If your recorded enrolled gender does not match the one you present in daily life.
I came back to school as a female on the record, but immediately started dressing more as the guys and now really appear as many of the guys do here at school.  I older students and professors know my history and use he/him with me most of the time.  The newer students may or may not know.  I use the men's restroom in a nearby building where there is little chance of seeing someone I know.  There are unisex or handicap restrooms in the newer buildings on campus.  I am waiting for the time when I get out of school and can only be seen as a guy and can live completely as one.

That seems like a very complicated situation. The only options I can think of right now are to transfer to a different college or rough it out for the next few years. The key element with an ideal college experience is the "starting anew" aspect. If you are still in the early stages of your transition, it may be a while before you can easily glide through life stealth in a new setting.

My advice to you is leave no loose ends.. & live the most male life you can. I would even suggest laying low for a bit socially in your college scene if you intend to stay there long term.. Kind of come and go without drawing much attention..

I'm not sure.. that's all I could come up with.. X.X

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on October 25, 2012, 10:18:35 AM
Oh my God, this is so right... every word of it! And men are always stuttering around me. And if a guy actually has the confidence to try, they're either cat calling or they go 0 to 90... like "So do you have any brothers or sisters" to trying to make out with me. Just ruins everything! Either they're too intimidated or they're too horny. I'd love some straight friends  (no offense to homosexuals), because all my friends ever want to do is go to a gay club where I get NO attention except from lesbians. Too bad men just wanna do me and women just wanna keep the men from me. I can see why women say it's easier being a guy!

You may be right.

Not to sound like someone out of Mean Girls.
But being pretty is SO hard.. HAHAHA I joke.. but not really.. o.o

I'm getting used to being independent and virtually alone, more than I was in the past.. I have a feeling that If I went around with no effort put into myself and wore very plain baggy clothes Id be easier to approach and what not. Sadly I also feel that now in (20's), it's a big power trip with straight girls. The pretty ones that try hard think they are above all the rest and it's a big competition or something. I feel like girls would get smart with me if I presented myself at a lower level.. I'm not sure. I demand respect and being attractive gives me that so maybe it's a trade off? IDK

Quote from: yasuko14 on October 25, 2012, 10:36:03 AM
It really sucks, I had a Japanese class last year and it was everyday of the week. There were tables in the class that seated 2. Everyone was new and I ended up being the only person who sat alone..  3/4 into the semester I eventually began to use the seat next to me to put my over-sized Coach purse on. I guess I was eventually embarrassed at my social lack so I put my purse there like a spoiled brat as if it were intentional.. Sometimes I would go shopping and put stuff on the empty half so I didn't look so... Icy cold..

In high-school It seems like when you're pretty everyone wants to get to know you because the social network in school is so close and everyone knows every juicy bit about eachother. In college everyone's past and life is a mystery so I feel like when there are attractive people around nobody wants to get close, basically a small fear.

I honestly think If I smiled more, It would break the ice, But sadly It isn't really my nature.
I'm not the friendly smily type, more the blunt, loyal, protective, type with really strong eye contact.. So that being said.. I dunno what I should do hahaha.

there might not be anything to do about it. This girl tries to strike up a convo with other girls and they look like -_-

and when she tries with the guys they just stare at her boobs and get nervous and flustered.

Quote from: CoolCat on October 25, 2012, 11:09:05 AM
there might not be anything to do about it. This girl tries to strike up a convo with other girls and they look like -_-

and when she tries with the guys they just stare at her boobs and get nervous and flustered.

Story of my life Q.Q

Quote from: yasuko14 on October 25, 2012, 10:55:32 AM
Not to sound like someone out of Mean Girls.
But being pretty is SO hard.. HAHAHA I joke.. but not really.. o.o

I'm getting used to being independent and virtually alone, more than I was in the past.. I have a feeling that If I went around with no effort put into myself and wore very plain baggy clothes Id be easier to approach and what not. Sadly I also feel that now in (20's), it's a big power trip with straight girls. The pretty ones that try hard think they are above all the rest and it's a big competition or something. I feel like girls would get smart with me if I presented myself at a lower level.. I'm not sure. I demand respect and being attractive gives me that so maybe it's a trade off? IDK

lol well it's true. Don't get me wrong, I am very, very happy I pass and I'm happy I'm not an ugly girl, but I sometimes wonder if people would be nicer if I wasn't passable or just some ugly looking girl. I know not passing is going to draw way more negative attention, and being ugly is going repulse most men, but at least the women wouldn't snob it up at me. I know when I didn't pass as well women were a whole lot more cheery with me and nicer. Oddly enough, the ones that are nicer are the very pretty ones with perfect skin, teenage to early twenties... and in the back of my head I'm calling her names, jealous as hell.

The female mind is so ... nasty!

As far as wearing homely clothes... you may be right. Maybe people are seeing that we are trying and that threatens them because trying DOES get results as far as looking better.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on October 25, 2012, 03:18:19 PM
Maybe the people in your Japanese class were intimidated because you are Japanese and they didn't want to sound stupid :)

Idk. I haven't been full time for nearly as long but I think it's easy to slip through the cracks in the college scene, especially when a part of you is holding back. People have all kinds of things going on in their life and you're right, it's not like high school. They don't have to be there... they want to enjoy being "grown up" now and work on their degree.

BUT, I think even if you don't naturally smile and bubble around people, you can make an effort to do it more. There are a lot of bitchy shallow people but that just makes it so much more rewarding when you meet someone who really cares about you and wants to interact with you on a human level.  :)

I understand though because I personally have a fear of being hurt in the end by people.  :(  it is hard to be completely unaffected by the kind of childhood you get stuck with as a trans person.

What you said about college is so true, unless you go to a REALLY small school, no one gives a flying eff, everyone is just trying to get that A or whatever.

Quote from: yasuko14 on October 25, 2012, 10:55:32 AM
Not to sound like someone out of Mean Girls.
But being pretty is SO hard.. HAHAHA I joke.. but not really.. o.o

I'm getting used to being independent and virtually alone, more than I was in the past.. I have a feeling that If I went around with no effort put into myself and wore very plain baggy clothes Id be easier to approach and what not. Sadly I also feel that now in (20's), it's a big power trip with straight girls. The pretty ones that try hard think they are above all the rest and it's a big competition or something. I feel like girls would get smart with me if I presented myself at a lower level.. I'm not sure. I demand respect and being attractive gives me that so maybe it's a trade off? IDK

I know the problem,
I am not extremly "pretty" myself but I have been told to be rather cute and good looking.
some people belive because my look is fine I got no problems at all, and talk with "well but your so handsome so sure your life must be a wonder" context

now I dont belive im very handsome im very casual looking for my age somedays I look like crap somedays I look fine, depends whatever im going out or not.
one of my friends got this problem way more cause he do has alot of sex apeal so he can hardly speak to anyone
without them trying to get in his pants.
its actually a big problem for him specially now when his not single.
----------
well...
now im ftm and I would say passing is important to me, I just feel alot better when I pass than when I dont, but its not everything.

I guess how important it is to pass also might have something to say for your area, its not really a secret that its more easy being trans if you pass, but in some areas it can be very dangerous if you dont.

That seems like a very complicated situation. The only options I can think of right now are to transfer to a different college or rough it out for the next few years. The key element with an ideal college experience is the "starting anew" aspect. If you are still in the early stages of your transition, it may be a while before you can easily glide through life stealth in a new setting.

My advice to you is leave no loose ends.. & live the most male life you can. I would even suggest laying low for a bit socially in your college scene if you intend to stay there long term.. Kind of come and go without drawing much attention..

I'm not sure.. that's all I could come up with.. X.X

Yasuko14,  For the time I have left in college I think it is best that I continue to stay where I am and finish my degree and then move and live as completely as possible as a guy.  I do not draw much attention here now and am satisfied that I can basicly live as guy even thou many know my history.  After I graduate and am making more money I can aford to do many of the transitional thing I want, surgeries etc.  Thanks for responding to me here in this thread.  Getting on T should help me too.

Quote from: CoolCat on October 25, 2012, 03:40:17 PM
What you said about college is so true, unless you go to a REALLY small school, no one gives a flying eff, everyone is just trying to get that A or whatever.

Ah, welcome to real life! College in this way is a preparation for real life. Later on when you go and work for a company, or start your own business you will find that people do not give a flying eff either, everyone is just trying to make a buck or further their careers.

So what? you said. So, then is when your social skills have to be sharpen and apply as a politicians do. why? because at least in our western society, the people you interact with are always asking themselves -consciously or unconsciously- "what is in for me?"

So, the trick to success is to interact with people so that after you live, all they remember and associate with you is that you make them feel good, good about themselves, and good about life.

You do not need to be a fake to do this, and it is not manipulation. It is all about emotional intelligence. Everybody you interact with has needs, and a little bit of mindfulness and attention will tell you what those need are. Then all you have to do is fill those needs. Most all the times all is needed is a acceptance, a smile, a kind word, a "break," or a gift. The amazing thing is that most of this gifts really do not cost you anything.

The personal outcome of setting yourselves to live in this "mode" is that your life is easier as most people will re-tribute in kind, you will succeed!