If I end up transitioning, before I drag my my teenage children (daughter 15, son 17) into therapy, I'm inclined to wait to see if they have problems (they don't so far) or they ask for it.
I'm getting flak for this. Three people (pediatrician, psychologist evaluating me, my sister) have declared on principal that kids with Trans parents need to have therapy whether they want it or not.
On one hand, I'm tired of the idea that a therapist must be present for every activity involved with transition. I'm pretty tuned in to what's happening with my kids and I'm very confident that they'll tell me if they're having problems with anything.
My sister insists that "everyone can benefit from a little therapy". However, my wide experience with therapists is that they are very good to help you change something in yourself you want changed, but otherwise they're perfectly happy to listen to you talk even when it's not clear to either therapist or patient that anything is improving.
OTOH they're my kids and I don't want them to suffer needlessly if I'm being pigheaded.
Anyone have any thoughts or experiences here?
I certainly wouldn't put them through that if they didn't need it. I'm inclined to think that those people that keep saying that the kids need therapy whether there are problems or not need therapy themselves.
I don't think they need it unless they are obviously trans-phobic, and they don't sound like they are. I'm sure they are at an age, especially the 17 year old one where they can understand that this is who you are and to be reasonable with it. There are people who are 17 and 14 who come out as transgender themselfs, so if someone else of that age is able to figure it out for their life, then a 17 or 14 year old should be able to understand the situation you are going through, and what to do and what not to do.
I hope I make sense here x.x
Quote from: agfrommd on October 30, 2012, 10:02:56 AM
I'm getting flak for this. Three people (pediatrician, psychologist evaluating me, my sister) have declared on principal that kids with Trans parents need to have therapy whether they want it or not.
That is a load of rot. I suspect that 2 out of 3 mentioned above see a billing opportunity. I have asked my shrinks about my kids (2 girls aged 15 and 17) and they said that as long as the kids are ok there is no reason to involve them. In fact kids are often more resilient than adults at facing up to having a trans relative.
Quote from: agfrommd on October 30, 2012, 10:02:56 AMI'm pretty tuned in to what's happening with my kids and I'm very confident that they'll tell me if they're having problems with anything.
Just reassure the kids that you will not embarrass them by turning up
en femme in front of any of their friends unless those friends know about you. Usually what kids want to know is that you are there to give them security & hugs, help solve their problems, dispense pocket money and drive them from A to B.
Quote from: agfrommd on October 30, 2012, 10:02:56 AMMy sister insists that "everyone can benefit from a little therapy".
Well, invite her to come along then. She can split the costs with you....
i don't believe in therapy unless there is an actual problem. and even then i don't believe in therapists. many will all too quickly create problems needlessly. if everything's fine, why worry about things that the kids haven't even thought of yet (and probably never will)? having to see a therapist might freak your kids out more than it helps them, for all you know.
kids are often very responsive to simple reasoning. if you let them understand that you are essentially the same, then there shouldn't be any problem. if you aren't getting divorced, leaving, or any other home ruining thing, then they should be able to adjust a lot more easily than you even without any therapy.
I guess I'd say be careful, and watch them. And don't expect that "problems" will always look like what you might think are problems. I should have been taken to see a therapist when I was 15. My parents didn't, because they weren't looking at the right things and didn't want to believe there was a problem. I very nearly ended up dead.
Hell, my mum caught the scars on my arms 2 months before I tried to kill myself. And I dunno. She didn't want to believe it or something. There were too many things going wrong in her marriage, and she was "staying together for the kids," so she had so much invested in us being okay, even though we both really weren't. She doesn't even remember that happening now.
You are going to want your kids to be okay really badly. And you are going to need to see past that somehow. In case they aren't.
Quote from: Sarah7 on October 30, 2012, 02:54:13 PM
I guess I'd say be careful, and watch them. And don't expect that "problems" will always look like what you might think are problems. I should have been taken to see a therapist when I was 15. My parents didn't, because they weren't looking at the right things and didn't want to believe there was a problem. I very nearly ended up dead.
Hell, my mum caught the scars on my arms 2 months before I tried to kill myself. And I dunno. She didn't want to believe it or something. There were too many things going wrong in her marriage, and she was "staying together for the kids," so she had so much invested in us being okay, even though we both really weren't. She doesn't even remember that happening now.
You are going to want your kids to be okay really badly. And you are going to need to see past that somehow. In case they aren't.
This^. Parents often say that they would immediately sense something wrong with their child, but that's hardly the case. Every parent has their own expectation, projection, neat little box that their kid seems to be, and it's hard to really see past all that.
I think its much more important that you find a therapist who gives you the tools to deal with your children. As long as you interact well with them and they don't act out or seem to need it then I think they should be ok. It is, I think, however essential that you communicate with the children well.
Good luck
Tanya
you just have to be careful that you don't make another box by telling your kids that they need therapy. maybe family therapy is a good idea though, if you can find a good therapist who listens more to the kids than the parents. i've met one of that kind in my entire life, he was family therapist. the therapists who specialized on working with children were total idiots and managed to make a bad situation so much worse that one of my brothers lost a few months of his childhood. can't remember because the time was too confusing and traumatic to him. i'll probably never forgive those bastards for believing in my father's lies instead of finding out what the real problem was by talking to my brother
I would let them know that if they feel they need to that a therapist option is offered. Don't force them to go, that can only lead to them shutting down.
Talk with them, let them know you still love them. Support goes both ways when transitioning.
With how sensitive my son is, I completely expected he would need therapy. When I came out to him, his mother and I told him that if he ever wanted to talk to anyone other than the one of us let us know and we will make it happen.
Thus far, he has had no issues with it. He is only 6, so he adjusts quickly. To him, this is all normal. He only notices now when I don't present female.
I think each chile is unique. Even in a family environment, one may need/want therapy and the other may not. I think agfrommd is a very inteligent, insightful person. And I am sure the right choice for each child will be made.
I agree with Brooke777 that each child is unique, so it is the dynamics of each family. In my case, my kids knew that daddy was a she since they were little, and I always dressed pretty androgynous. Yet, I delayed my transition until they become teens; transition happened during the big D. I asked the kids about talking to a psychologist, but they declined.
They are no perfect kids, but they are pretty adjusted an on their way to become somebody of value to the Empire
another thing
A child will tell a therapist things they will not tell their parents. So when you think everything is on the up and up, it may not be the case.
I agree that therapy should be available for children with parents who are transitioning. Including mine.
I am inclined to think that they should go, yet m kid gut says they will see forcing them to go as a way for you to legitimize yourself to them. On the other hand, no matter how close and open you are to them, you are still a parent and certain rules do apply.
Overall, if they they are truely open to going then yes, set it up. Besides being a little lighter in the wallet, no harm can come of it. Plenty of good things can.
Quote from: Annah on October 30, 2012, 06:47:11 PM
I agree that therapy should be available for children with parents who are transitioning.
The keyword being 'available' and not 'required'
Quote from: JoanneB on October 30, 2012, 09:03:04 PM
I am inclined to think that they should go, yet m kid gut says they will see forcing them to go as a way for you to legitimize yourself to them. On the other hand, no matter how close and open you are to them, you are still a parent and certain rules do apply.
Overall, if they they are truely open to going then yes, set it up. Besides being a little lighter in the wallet, no harm can come of it. Plenty of good things can.
i'd hate my parents if they took me to see a therapist for something i deemed "no good reason". there's no way i'd have told any of my concerns to a therapist that my parents chose out of misplaced concern for me, and i'd be pissed off if my parents thought that any problems could be solved more easily by taking me to a therapist when all i wanted was to be able to tell my parents and have them listen to me.
taking a child to see a therapist can cause harm, depending on the child and what reasons the parents give and all kinds of things. having to see a doctor of any kind can be stressful. that's why i said a family therapist might be better, because you'll go there to talk about how to handle the situation as a family, without focusing on how this could be negative for the kids. and at the same time that therapist might understand the children's needs better when they see how your family interact with each other, and should be able to notice if the children do need any therapy at all.
Just knowing that they could talk to someone helps a lot. They may have questions later on after they had some time to let it sink in.
But kids these days are pretty contemporary they may be just fine with it.
Quote from: Taka on October 31, 2012, 06:53:25 AM
taking a child to see a therapist can cause harm...
Which brings to mind the reverse situation. Back in the very early 70's when I was 14-16 or so mom took me to a doc. On the way there she was cagey. When we got there it is was a shrink. Yep, she found my stash of clothes 2-3 times by then. But not one single word was ever spoken of it. Just guietly disappeared.
I got the message loud and clear. I was told when I was 5 that boys can't wear girls clothes, I should have listened. I lied to get the right diagnosis. I was a big enough of a F'up as it was with teh trouble I got into. Was smart enough and had already read enough to make it sound like it was "a phase" for me. No way was I ever going to tell this guy I always wished I was a girl.
I agree that the assumption that a little therapy is good for everyone is a goofy idea. Many therapists are incompetent and some cause LOTS of damage. I think that if the therapist you see works out, you might ask re: this question. Some therapists might see the family occassionally. I think some kids mihgt want to talk with someone. OTOH, some kids do not see this in the same way your sister would. The times are a'changing. And kids are more tolerant of this kind of thing.
--Jay J
Thanks everyone for the support and the cautionary tales. I'm feeling a lot more confident in my thinking.
Quote from: bev2 on October 30, 2012, 10:27:25 AM
Just reassure the kids that you will not embarrass them by turning up en femme in front of any of their friends unless those friends know about you.
Actually this is going to be an issue. You see I teach in the same school my kids attend (we drive together every morning). Probably won't be an issue for my son, he'll have graduated before I go full-time, but my daughter's friends will all end up knowing.
I'm consoling myself with:
* Most kids her age are embarrassed by their parents.
* She and most of her friends attend the Gay/Straight Alliance meetings at our school. There are a couple of FtM transgender students there, who are treated with a lot of respect, so at least I can hope that her friends will know I'm not a freak.
Quote from: agfrommd on November 01, 2012, 06:21:43 PM
* She and most of her friends attend the Gay/Straight Alliance meetings at our school. There are a couple of FtM transgender students there, who are treated with a lot of respect, so at least I can hope that her friends will know I'm not a freak.
Wow... That's great...
Amazing how much things have changed in just the past 10 years, but still need to change. :)
Wondering how and when to tell my kids.
I think it is good to tell your kids that therapy is an option and they have someone they can chat with if needed, but I think forcing people into therapy is no good.
My brother was prodded endlessly to go into counselling as I came out, because off the "trauma" of losing his sister, but he honestly just doesn't want it. He's not entirely OK with my transition, uses old names/pronouns, but he just doesn't see a benefit in talking about it and I really believe he wants to figure it out on his own. Just because it's hard to accept or understand doesn't mean it's going to wreck the kid.
Therapy also doesn't tend to be beneficial unless the person in it is open to gain something from it.
Quote from: agfrommd on November 01, 2012, 06:21:43 PM
Actually this is going to be an issue. You see I teach in the same school my kids attend (we drive together every morning). Probably won't be an issue for my son, he'll have graduated before I go full-time, but my daughter's friends will all end up knowing.
I know someone who has done exactly this. She transitioned with her child in her school but she simply dressed fairly masculine and whilst in the earlier part of her transition used her male name to the children. By the time she was transitioned her daughter had left the school and she became 'Miss' to the kids.
It all seemed to work out.
kids are often open to role play, even teenagers are, if you're cool about it. when you teach you're playing a different role than outside school, so as long as you're natural, it shouldn't be too much of an issue. getting support from and looking cool to the trans friendly kids might help your kids a lot in accepting you. all kids want their parents to be seen as cool, and they're usually only embarrassed of their parents if they're totally uncool. my daughter loves my horrible hair colors, but i'm sure she wouldn't if the other kids didn't like it too. i hope to always be someone she can be proud of and brag about, and i think this has a lot more to do with my attitude toward her and other kids than how i dress (as long as i wear fairly decent clothing)