soooooo, i think alot about my own perception of myself. i don't quite understand it but i can't be the only person who feels this way. it may be SRS fear? it may be more gender confusion? maybe a fear of having a relationship with someone and being a woman with a penis? or a man with boobs? please don't flame me for those comments, just merely thinking aloud.
so i feel like these feelings stem from my sexuality. ok, ill try to explain, but my sexuality basically tells me with big bright flashing neon words "be a girl." now growing up, i had been able to make EVERYTHING ELSE about me ignore this flashing neon sign, but my sexuality has never changed. it created a desperate longing to be a girl. it created a young boy crying himself to sleep wishing to be a girl, then wishing to wake up and only have girls clothes, then just wishing to dream as a girl, then just wishing to be wearing girls clothes... then giving up on wishing and trying to forget. i'm sure many of you have those same stories? maybe not? never has my conscious mind said "i am girl" and ill be honest, it scares the hell out of me. it means to me that either people who say they've know they are a girl and are 100% about getting vagina are either wishing on a star and trying to convince themselves, or maybe i'm just not meant for SRS? but that doesn't eliminate by need to be a girl. ughh i don't feel like i am being clear here.
so i have been trying to find more information about detransition and SRS regret. i have read Van's postings here and talked to him in email about him being androgenous now. his postings most def resonated within me. i also read somethings on sexchangeregret.com or something? its an old guy who transitioned after being married/kids and then detransitioned after 7 or 8 years after SRS. now its easy for me to look at his argument and say... well you had a lifetime of being a guy, you never looked like a female and you just couldn't get over that fact? also the fact that it ruined your relantionships with family, children? of course you're going to carry that guilt around and it may be strong enough to make you detransition. maybe you're jealous of young kids being able to live as their preferred gender almost exclusively without ever having forced to live as a boy? i feel that jealousy. i wish i could erase my childhood and replace it with a girls.... not that my childhood was bad by any means, but i just feel like it contradicts who i am today.
F, am i making sense? maybe the people who detransition and have perspectives on this topic don't come to susans anymore? there have to be someone people who think SRS is not the right option? other theories besides surgery? hmmm, i want some critical thinking here!
so i'm all FFS'd and BA'd and pass pretty flawlesly... but i still stare at myself in the mirror and try to find a boy. i tell myself that i only look like a girl because there isn't a girl to compare myself with. like if i was staring into the mirror and a genetic/cisfemale was standing next to me, i would be dead givaway trans. its like i'm constantly searching for a reason "not to be trans"? as if one day i am going to look into the mirror and be like ~ that isn't a girl! and then detransition? shucks, i can't seem to find the write words (no, no pun intended) to express myself here.
i hope i've given enough context and information for people to maybe almost hopefully understand my feelings?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4RBkHK8q8s&feature=plcp (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4RBkHK8q8s&feature=plcp)
Ozma, let me put one of your worries to rest. I have three daughters, all ciswomen, ages 19 to 26. 5' 5", 5' 9", and 6' 0".
After watching your video, and listening to you, and seeing how you carry yourself, you would fit right in as one of the girls. You do not stand out as obviously trans. In my eyes you are 100% girl.
Worry not!
Quote from: Jamie D on November 13, 2012, 12:49:51 AM
Ozma, let me put one of your worries to rest. I have three daughters, all ciswomen, ages 19 to 26. 5' 5", 5' 9", and 6' 0".
After watching your video, and listening to you, and seeing how you carry yourself, you would fit right in as one of the girls. You do not stand out as obviously trans. In my eyes you are 100% girl.
Worry not!
isn't it what's inside that counts?
i had someone respond to me... and basically said... getting a vag won't change anything about you right now. all it will do is ease anxieties of having sex, most notably with men. i mean i understand this, surgeries won't make you change the way you think, it wont make you a woman. but i just don't know how to decide what is the right course of action for me? obviously that means i need to be paitent about getting a vag, but i can't help but get this anxiety about having a penis and walking around being a woman with a penis! ugghhh
at the same time i kind of feel like i don't like men, but then when i get horny, i like men.... and i wonder if its just my own awareness of my penis that makes me not like men? or maybe its my lifetime of trying to prevent wanting to be a girl and not wanting to be gay that doesn't let me like men?
when i can get my mind to a place where it is void of my current genitalia, i enjoy myself... its almost as if i can imagine what having a vagina will feel like? but then i just think i'm crazy for wanting a vagina?
i feel so confused!
We have all sorts of worries about SRS, doubts and stuff, and our opinions change as we change. I was pretty well thinking I wouldn't bother with surgery and just be happy living as the full time female me. But I'm definitely swinging into surgery.
As people keep saying this is were a good gender therapist can help. They don't make decisions for you, but guide you to think what you want and to explore the consequences etc.
Ozma, let me ask you a question. You have been able to very successfully transform your body in away that approximates your dominant gender identity. Am I correct so far?
What do you think a bigender, bisexual person like myself must do to deal with the gender dysphoria? I think to answer for me is to be myself, and tweak what I can.
But I so very much envy people like you who have recognized who they are and acted on it. It may be that your self image requires SRS, maybe not. It is your unique journey. There are no good roadmaps. Like me, like Cindy, like all your other sisters here, you will have to follow your heart.
.
I think one of the most important things is what JamieD said in an oblique way, there are no rules about being TG or anything else in life for that matter. There is no book saying an MtF has to do this or that, there is no book saying an FtM has to do this or that.
We are all unique and lovely in out own way.
We walk our own paths, and sometimes we cannot walk those paths as we wish; for whatever reason.
There is nothing wrong in that.
At Susan's we promote social inclusion. What does that mean?
It means we don't give a damn what your identity is, how it changes or how you will tackle it. You are family and we will support you.
It is up to you to find your way, and of course many of us will help. But in the end decisions are yours. Never be coerced into something. You will live with the consequences. For example if you are coerced into having SRS, but not really wanting it; guess what? There is no way to sew the tackle back on.
You make your decision.
In Australia we have a 12 month RLE before we can have surgery, at the end of that time there is a full re-assessment, if the person wants surgery; some don't, nothing wrong with that. Some decide to wait longer, nothing wrong with that. Some want it ASAP, nothing wrong with that either.
What is important is that YOU make an informed choice about your body.
No one owes you anything and you don't owe anyone anything. Your decision is yours alone. But make sure it is an informed carefully researched one.
Hugs
Cindy
Quote from: Cindy James on November 13, 2012, 01:47:23 AM
We have all sorts of worries about SRS, doubts and stuff, and our opinions change as we change. I was pretty well thinking I wouldn't bother with surgery and just be happy living as the full time female me. But I'm definitely swinging into surgery.
As people keep saying this is were a good gender therapist can help. They don't make decisions for you, but guide you to think what you want and to explore the consequences etc.
ha, its so familiar... telling myself "as long as i just look like a normal girl, i don't care if i'm pretty or not" or "i just want to be full time, i don't need a vagina."
its like stepping stones. its too hard to think about the steps far away until you get closer to them. when i told this to my therapist right away he said i had good "departmentalization" of my anxieties. haha
anyways, i was doing some thinking about this
hole trans thing ~ HA, i'm soooo funny with puns! i recorded another video where i try to explain myself and possible future anxieties... yes i know its bad to try and tell the future cause it usually comes true (thanks Ayn Rand)
http://youtu.be/Y6wtqQJjUzs (http://youtu.be/Y6wtqQJjUzs)
.
What a great thread, so many good posts!
I think what you are going through is perfectly normal. I went through the same process with FFS and though it's been way easier to decide to have a BA I still thought "what if I change my mind" yesterday I scheduled my surgery for BA and then later that night I was staring at my self in the mirror saying "your not really a girl" it's like I just want to torture myself! I think we all have a little internalized trans mysogyne going on, how could we not! We are the least understood and most marginalized group of people on the planet. That takes its toll. For me SRS will definitely be about being able to have sex correctly be that with a man or with a woman (mostly with a man) but that's just me.
Quote from: aprilrain on November 13, 2012, 06:41:48 AM
What a great thread, so many good posts!
I think what you are going through is perfectly normal. I went through the same process with FFS and though it's been way easier to decide to have a BA I still thought "what if I change my mind" yesterday I scheduled my surgery for BA and then later that night I was staring at my self in the mirror saying "your not really a girl" it's like I just want to torture myself! I think we all have a little internalized trans mysogyne going on, how could we not! We are the least understood and most marginalized group of people on the planet. That takes its toll. For me SRS will definitely be about being able to have sex correctly be that with a man or with a woman (mostly with a man) but that's just me.
thats right srs was all about being able to ride the pole for me :)
Quote from: oZma on November 13, 2012, 02:54:23 AM
ha, its so familiar... telling myself "as long as i just look like a normal girl, i don't care if i'm pretty or not" or "i just want to be full time, i don't need a vagina."
its like stepping stones. its too hard to think about the steps far away until you get closer to them. when i told this to my therapist right away he said i had good "departmentalization" of my anxieties. haha
anyways, i was doing some thinking about this hole trans thing ~ HA, i'm soooo funny with puns! i recorded another video where i try to explain myself and possible future anxieties... yes i know its bad to try and tell the future cause it usually comes true (thanks Ayn Rand)
http://youtu.be/Y6wtqQJjUzs (http://youtu.be/Y6wtqQJjUzs)
Wow, I love this video. I think you explain the feeling so well. Its so abstract, its hard to put into words at times. My life, the thoughts and feelings that I've had, echo those of this video. The voice just doesn't stop, no matter what methods and lengths we go to try and shut it up.
I just don't know if SRS would do that for me either. Its an issue that's on my mind at least once a day. Yes I want it, but then again, will it really solve my issues? But its a long way off for me and I am still just trying to accept myself and be content with where I am on my journey before I make a definite decision about that.
I check in on the boards every once in a while, but I don't post often cuz I don't always feel I have something to add. But I know I've read other posts on here a by you about questioning your pass-ability. And I just want to reiterate what everyone else keeps on telling you--and now also seeing this video--you are gorgeous. I would never be able to guess that you are not cisgendered. I know that we are hardest with ourselves and this may just seem like token praise. But I'm telling you--I'm married--I showed my wife your videos and she said, "Wow, I wish I looked that good."--Even many cisgendered women have issues with how they look--like muuu's example with anorexia.
You definitely pass. You just have to accept it and feel confident--and I know that just comes from going out and purposefully trying to create positive social experiences for yourself to look back on. I don't know. I personally have to force myself to do this. Perhaps its difficult for you too? But I do know that's how we learn about and accept ourselves, because simple interaction often reveals who we are. I tend to think things will become more clear as time goes on. SRS is a HUGE decision, and not taking it lightly is a good thing.
And yes, you are very punny. ;D
Male genitalia under HRT become useless,
why clutch to them? I just get an impression that
you don't want to part with your male parts, due to
whatever reason. Please, don't hesitate to correct me
on the account of me being wrong.
Detransition is unwise if you weren't happy before
your transition and are happy now. Are you?
That's the ultimate question. All of us were unhappy
in our male bodies. It's okay to feel confused sometimes,
don't mistake that for unhappiness.
You look like every other woman to me,
if you want to become more feminine, give
HRT more time. It's a gradual process. And stop that
nonsense about "growing old and not looking cute anymore"
as a reason to detransition. I don't see any cute old men around,
do you? I do, however, see my share of cute elderly women.
SRS is the final step for most of us. Don't live in the past,
live in the present with your head into the future. The past is dead.
Quote from: Tristan on November 13, 2012, 07:01:32 AM
thats right srs was all about being able to ride the pole for me :)
Sexually... yeah! Having multiple orgasms in a succession helps too.
In terms of self-image: it brings our bodies closer to our minds.
.
I have to say something about your video How being trans feels to me, and especially the all important "I want to be a girl."
So much of what you said in your video has always been a part of my mental turmoil. It's just been much longer lasting than a lot of the other girls on Susan's. But I'll add that the nagging feeling of not quite getting there will probably never go away for me. No matter how much I change my body and life there is always going to be something missing. I can dream, but there's no way to have that one thing that has always really mattered the most. And so I'll always wish that my life began with my mother being told "It's a girl."
My missing that begining to life is a deeply personal feeling, and I hope to accept it some day. But for now I'll keep transitioning, and keep hoping that "I want to be a girl" can forever, and without regard or question of my birth, change to "I am a girl."
Love, Kathy
Quote from: kathy b on November 13, 2012, 09:29:51 AM
I hope to accept it some day. But for now I'll keep transitioning, and keep hoping that "I want to be a girl" can forever, and without regard or question of my birth, change to "I am a girl."
Love, Kathy
well stated Kathy, I think that this is the big question for a lot of us and though I have met plenty of post op woman who say that the GID has gone away in talking with them i also get the sense that we never really stop fighting that feeling even if its only for a moment every now and again.
I heard a story about a woman who grew up very poor, she worked hard has achieved wealth and wants for nothing but she still battles that feeling inside of her that dinner might not be on the table tonight. it never goes away completely.
Quote from: charlie on November 13, 2012, 05:34:31 AM
- Not wanting to worry how it sounds when I go
LOL! i think about this
Quote from: muuu on November 13, 2012, 09:27:33 AM
I don't think that it gets useless for everyone during HRT, so there may be reasons to hang on to it.
I'm not sure either, I think the question she's asking is if she'll feel more female without them. Though, because there are always things to improve, one won't get satisfied trough surgeries. The aim of surgeries imo should be to fix something that you see is in the way of your life, not because you want stop thinking "I want to be a girl" (I think you should go to a psychologist/psychiatrist about those psychological issues instead).
I might have understood her incorrectly though...
So the question is, why do you want SRS? Do you have a reason other than trying to please that 'voice'?
Personally I'm not sure myself, because of the surgery it self and possible difficulties afterwards.
yes muuu, you are correct. about the constant improving myself aspect. its a scary thought to think there is nothing i can do to further my femaleness :(
and i do see a therapist. i have been since 3 months before hormones (2.5 years?) and i've always tried to be completely honest even when i felt i was saying things that i thought other trans girls wouldn't.
Quote from: kathy b on November 13, 2012, 09:29:51 AM
I have to say something about your video How being trans feels to me, and especially the all important "I want to be a girl."
So much of what you said in your video has always been a part of my mental turmoil. It's just been much longer lasting than a lot of the other girls on Susan's. But I'll add that the nagging feeling of not quite getting there will probably never go away for me. No matter how much I change my body and life there is always going to be something missing. I can dream, but there's no way to have that one thing that has always really mattered the most. And so I'll always wish that my life began with my mother being told "It's a girl."
My missing that begining to life is a deeply personal feeling, and I hope to accept it some day. But for now I'll keep transitioning, and keep hoping that "I want to be a girl" can forever, and without regard or question of my birth, change to "I am a girl."
Love, Kathy
the hardest part is the "arbitrary" factor. the factor that in my head says "none of this should matter", "this is silly", "what reasons make you feel like you want to be a girl?"
its so hard to answer these because none of it does matter, there are no reasons really when it comes down to it (yes you could say cute clothes, long pretty hair, makeup). but regardless, it is just the way it is and i guess we should all be thankful that we have the internet and we can discuss our feelings and know that we aren't alone :)
oZma it seems a lot of your problems stem from how you view yourself rather than how others view you. I've had this issue all my life even before transition and its a problem for all people even cis ones. I've talked with my therapist about it and she says she has trans patients that have had every surgery, completely pass, but when they look in the mirror they always see the guy despite everyone else seeing the girl.
My mother is a LCSW who has worked with young girls (and boys who are becoming more prominent lately) with eating disorders for most of her career. No matter how skinny they are, they always see a fat person and no matter what others tell them they see the opposite. I feel that this issue with trans women is the same but from an internal to external prospective. You are a woman inside yet you see the male body you use to have no matter how others see you. You cannot let an internalized feeling based off of this view of your external self override your true nature. It is why so many people who detransition based on this feeling end up regretting the detransition and transitioning again later which will only hurt them more in the long run.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on November 13, 2012, 10:48:41 AM
oZma it seems a lot of your problems stem from how you view yourself rather than how others view you. I've had this issue all my life even before transition and its a problem for all people even cis ones. I've talked with my therapist about it and she says she has trans patients that have had every surgery, completely pass, but when they look in the mirror they always see the guy despite everyone else seeing the girl.
My mother is a LCSW who has worked with young girls (and boys who are becoming more prominent lately) with eating disorders for most of her career. No matter how skinny they are, they always see a fat person and no matter what others tell them they see the opposite. I feel that this issue with trans women is the same but from an internal to external prospective. You are a woman inside yet you see the male body you use to have no matter how others see you. You cannot let an internalized feeling based off of this view of your external self override your true nature. It is why so many people who detransition based on this feeling end up regretting the detransition and transitioning again later which will only hurt them more in the long run.
i like this, it does seem to be a source of depression for me... my own perception of myself that is. I think about it a lot. I wonder how people who don't know I'm trans think about me, like what kind of girl do they think I am? what girls would they think I am similar to? it's difficult
some people on here say that I just need to accept I'm a girl, but I think the harder part is accepting my past. thinking about how 'straight ' I was. how normal I pretended to be. the happiness I was able to obtain by repressing my girl feelings. shucks, having these two different personalities in my head drives me nuts. not that I hated being a guy, if anything I hated wanting to be a girl
gosh just reading over this I realize that my big problem is that I hate being trans, I hate myself for it. I don't want to hate myself so I say OK, lets transition so we can stop hating ourselves, but I still hate... I start thinking srs wil maybe calm the hate? thats not a good reason for surgery.
so now I've come full circle and described two things.
1. in my second video, my 'I want to be a girl' feeling
2. my hated towards being trans
so I guess you could say I hate that I WANT to be a girl. does that make me the self hating ->-bleeped-<-? it's not a constant hate, but it comes in waves.
anybody care to translate my incoherent words into English for me? LOL
or maybe it's the feeling that I know a large population out there will hate me for being trans so I prepare myself for the worst and say 'OK, you hate me... well I hate myself like 10 x more so your hate doesn't mean nothing to me!'
translating feelings and thoughts to words is hard!
Quote from: oZma on November 13, 2012, 11:53:08 AM
i like this, it does seem to be a source of depression for me... my own perception of myself that is. I think about it a lot. I wonder how people who don't know I'm trans think about me, like what kind of girl do they think I am? what girls would they think I am similar to? it's difficult
some people on here say that I just need to accept I'm a girl, but I think the harder part is accepting my past. thinking about how 'straight ' I was. how normal I pretended to be. the happiness I was able to obtain by repressing my girl feelings. shucks, having these two different personalities in my head drives me nuts. not that I hated being a guy, if anything I hated wanting to be a girl
gosh just reading over this I realize that my big problem is that I hate being trans, I hate myself for it. I don't want to hate myself so I say OK, lets transition so we can stop hating ourselves, but I still hate... I start thinking srs wil maybe calm the hate? thats not a good reason for surgery.
so now I've come full circle and described two things.
1. in my second video, my 'I want to be a girl' feeling
2. my hated towards being trans
so I guess you could say I hate that I WANT to be a girl. does that make me the self hating ->-bleeped-<-? it's not a constant hate, but it comes in waves.
anybody care to translate my incoherent words into English for me? LOL
I hated my feelings for the longest time. I did everything I could to try to make them go away and no matter what I did they never did. I wanted to be a normal guy but my mind kept telling me the opposite. Eventually this led to me starting my transition when I realized I could never be a normal guy and would never be happy pretending to be one. I found that the man I wanted to be was simply a costume, a part in a play that I was acting out on a daily basis. The man was the fake and the woman I constantly felt I needed to be was my true self being repressed by my hatred of the feelings I had towards bringing her out.
I don't think SRS will calm your hatred towards those feelings I think it is an internal struggle you need to work out inside. Nothing you can do to your body will stop the fight inside your head. A lot of it is acceptance, acceptance of yourself for what you are, not what you want or should have been.
Ozma, do you have a job and work around other people?
For a lot of my career I have worked alone which helped me alot, as when ever I am alone I get to walk, think and act as the true me! its only when around others that I have to put on the boy mode act. That has helped greatly with my state of mind and well being...its not all about dressing or looking like a girl, its inside "I know" that I was born a girl but what others see on the outside may differ :( , slowly I am finally able to align my outside appearance more to coincide with how I feel on the inside...and I'm liking that a lot!!!
Many years ago I interviewed the singer/songwriter Paul Simon (waaaaayyy before your time, but I guess you probably heard of Simon and Garfunkel). Anyway, Simon's the kind of guy who thinks a lot, all the time, in fact. He spends so much time thinking about things that it gets in the way of doing stuff. So he wrote a song called Think Too Much, all about that problem. Then, as he told me, 'I thought about the song I'd written and it wasn't quite right. So I wrote another song, also called Think Too Much, just to prove that I really do thing too much.'
My point being, those of us who have dysphoria, or GID, or whatever the hell it's called this week can be the same. The problem we have, that confusion of body, mind, soul and gender is so weird for us to get a handle on that it's easy to get lost in thinking about it, so that it starts to mess with your head and we kind of defeat ourselves before anyone or anything else has even had a chance.
So my advice to you is ... stop thinking. Instead just be ... You have a huge advantage in that you look and sound like a regular girl (really, you do). So go out into the world and let the world see the girl you are, and treat you like a girl, and talk to you like a girl, and look at you like a girl ... And my guess is that the more that all your experience is of being a girl, the easier and more natural it will become for you just to be a girl in your own head, and see a girl when you look in the mirror.
I totally appreciate the comparison that was made with anorexia, and I know from direct, personal experience that it is impossible to persuade an anorexic that they're thin enough, let alone too thin. So maybe you can't be persuaded ...
... but maybe you can
My advice is, be as active and as busy as possible so that you're distracted from introspection and don't have time to think about yourself ... and be active and busy as a girl ... It won't happen instantly, but bit-by-bit, day-by-day, so gradually that you hardly even notice it, maybe things will change ... And maybe there can come a time when you suddenly realise that you aren't having these issues in your head any more and that you've moved on to a better, more settled place.
And once you get to the point of accepting yourself as a girl, well, that's when you'll truly accept and want a girl's body, and a girl's vagina.
Odd, not two minutes before I read Carlita's post I saw this,
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F25.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_mbniwbt8D41qlu8tno1_500.png&hash=424dfbf030b58b5b4e3e78b1fa1974a5a162f3f8)
.
Quote from: muuu on November 13, 2012, 09:27:33 AM
I don't think that it gets useless for everyone during HRT, so there may be reasons to hang on to it.
I'm not sure either, I think the question she's asking is if she'll feel more female without them. Though, because there are always things to improve, one won't get satisfied trough surgeries. The aim of surgeries imo should be to fix something that you see is in the way of your life, not because you want stop thinking "I want to be a girl" (I think you should go to a psychologist/psychiatrist about those psychological issues instead).
I might have understood her incorrectly though...
So the question is, why do you want SRS? Do you have a reason other than trying to please that 'voice'?
Personally I'm not sure myself, because of the surgery it self and possible difficulties afterwards.
Well, I might be generalizing here as mine are already pretty useless now without HRT.
I also heard it from other trans-girls, but yeah, it's true that there are always exceptions.
I think SRS is a must, whether you like it or not: a vagina is how a woman is defined first and foremost.
If you see yourself as one there is no dodging it. Male genitalia will keep on forever reminding you that you had
a male body once. I for one want certainty in my life at least to the degrees I can control. Keeping the penis
is holding onto a memento of somebody you no longer are. That person is dead, new one is born.
Yeah, I'll probably get flooded with all the "we are all on different paths" BS now (that cop-out phrase makes me sick, I've heard it too often already).
I'm sorry to bring it you, ladies, but we are all on the same path. It just branches off sometimes.
The journey for all of us is largely the same.
Also, ladies, there is no perfection. You can't keep trying to improve your body forever.
There is a lot you can make better, no doubt and that's exactly what you should settle for.
Your body is a means to an end, to be yourself, thus to be happy. If you keep pursuing the
unattainable perfection you won't have the energy, nor the time to enjoy what truly matters - your life.
I too pursued physical perfection in my youth. You just can't keep up with it. In the end it made me
even more miserable.
.
Quote from: Alyx Vox on November 13, 2012, 01:35:45 PM
Well, I might be generalizing here as mine are already pretty useless now without HRT.
I also heard it from other trans-girls, but yeah, it's true that there are always exceptions.
I think SRS is a must, whether you like it or not: a vagina is how a woman is defined first and foremost.
If you see yourself as one there is no dodging it. Male genitalia will keep on forever reminding you that you had
a male body once. I for one want certainty in my life at least to the degrees I can control. Keeping the penis
is holding onto a memento of somebody you no longer are. That person is dead, new one is born.
Yeah, I'll probably get flooded with all the "we are all on different paths" BS now (that cop-out phrase makes me sick, I've heard it too often already).
I'm sorry to bring it you, ladies, but we are all on the same path. It just branches off sometimes.
The journey for all of us is largely the same.
Also, ladies, there is no perfection. You can't keep trying to improve your body forever.
There is a lot you can make better, no doubt and that's exactly what you should settle for.
Your body is a means to an end, to be yourself, thus to be happy. If you keep pursuing the
unattainable perfection you won't have the energy, nor the time to enjoy what truly matters - your life.
I too pursued physical perfection in my youth. You just can't keep up with it. In the end it made me
even more miserable.
Alyx, how do you speak with such conviction? have you not been conditioned to be cynical about these sorts of things? I mean cynical in the form of "i know im a boy" but "i want to be a girl" and how easily we cast doubt upon the fact of "being a boy" and put faith into "i want to be a girl" to the point we surgery our self? can you please shed light on how you came to feel the way you do? have you ever had doubts? how can i make myself believe in SRS? lol, its starting to sound like a religion haha
you what happens when i think about men... an image of my old boy self appears and says "whooaaa dude, i'm not gay" and then i can only picture my old boy self being with a guy and the idea of 2 guys together just totally turns me off. it makes me confused.
ok, to be clear, sex to me, is between a man and a woman... i'm saying gay is wrong or anything, just in my head... man and a woman, thats what my orientation is. maybe woman/woman? i don't know but i find it hard to think about a guy because i get the feeling "where is the girl"? i don't see myself as the girl. maybe i'm puting too much emphasis on the image of being a girl and not enough on the feeling of being a girl? i worry that a penis in my vagina doesn't make me orgasm. so then i should say... its ok to like women. but then i just start getting confused about the whole penis thing again.
can someone maybe private message me their mentality when it comes to this? maybe someone who was a straight boy before transition and now is a straight woman? someone who can relate to the words i am writing?
.
Quote from: muuu on November 13, 2012, 03:09:39 PM
To me this is starting to sound like psychological trauma... Have you ever tried CBT for your issues?
if it were only that easy! I wish... I feel crazy but you know what they say, the crazy people don't think they're crazy LOL
I'm not sure if I had been cbt'd but I've been in talking doctor therapy for the last 3 years?
Quote from: muuu on November 13, 2012, 02:21:12 PM
...
I'm talking in the terms of the most basic definition of a word "woman".
You may feel like a woman, that's fine, but you are not a woman as long as you have a penis.
Feeling is subjective, being is objective. Please, notice the difference.
Objectively, being a pre-op trans-girl is an extreme form of androgyny.
You can feel as a 100% female whilst being a phenotypical male and you would be right to do so.
We have to draw an objective line somewhere. I draw it at the genitalia and secondary gender characteristics and so
do most of us (not trying to establish argumentum ad populum here, don't misunderstand me, please).
Quote from: oZma on November 13, 2012, 02:51:20 PM
Alyx, how do you speak with such conviction? have you not been conditioned to be cynical about these sorts of things?
Yes, I was conditioned about homosexuality, but only recently have I hit the wall of me being a transsexual.
The problem with transsexualism is that there is so much misinformation about it that it simply hurts. For instance,
how often have you read an obviously biased article about trans-girls turning out ugly, when in fact I see that it's mostly
the other way around, even for those born into a body of a plain man? So, it isn't really brought up that often. In my
youth I talked about it maybe twice, all whilst being extremely ignorant about it of course.
I think you should check the definition of the word "cynical", because me being cynical played a lot in my struggle for
accepting myself. The next logical step after cynicism is not giving a damn about what most people say. I'll tell you right now,
people are dumber the more they herd together, so the opinions of groups should be discarded outright.
I know I am this way because I have never been happy, I was always either miserable or detached. Once I accepted my
transsexualism I found peace and even some happiness. I am more social, more easy-going, more alive now than I ever
was. Honestly, I have nothing to lose if I transition. The worst case scenario is that I'll just be as miserable as before,
only in a new body. That's worth the risk. At least now I no longer think about suicide (yep, I even tried to kill myself once).
I'll never be happy as a man, that much is certain. I'll get rid of everything that makes me one.
Also, having a vagina seems magical. The whole penetration thing, clitoral stimulation, multiple and stronger consecutive orgasms.
Sign me up for that! It seems like penis is losing the battle. Oh, yeah, I'm bi, if you haven't figured it out yet.
oZma, I think your SRS issues have something to do with your early life indoctrination. Were you raised in a conservative family
by any chance?
.
Quote from: Alyx Vox on November 13, 2012, 03:46:24 PM
oZma, I think your SRS issues have something to do with your early life indoctrination. Were you raised in a conservative family
by any chance?
conservative... well yes. my dad always kind of made fun of gays but nothing that stands out in my mind. maybe something bad did happen and I blank it out? I've thought about that. maybe it would explain why I can't remember much of my childhood? I have never been religious.
I just don't believe it. I don't believe srs works. just like I don't believe I'm pretty. I mean everyone can tell me I look good and it feels nice for the second I read it, but I don't believe it.
I don't know how any guy would want to be with a girl like me, I don't think its fair for me to like a boy because of the way I am. I don't think I will ever be able to think positive long enough to schedule and wait for surgery. I think vag is gross and wonder why I want one. just the fact of 'wanting' it confuses me in contrast to just having something and accepting it?
yeah, I'm totally starting to think I'm just a crazy person and not trans? maybe my sexuality its just about wanting to be a girl. the want. maybe its just sexual and getting srs ruins it?
I have no sense of who I am. when I think about myself, I think about a boy :(
OK, I think this thread is going nowhere... it looks like its just going to turn into some weird therapy session. lets end it
Quote from: oZma on November 13, 2012, 04:39:48 PM
conservative... well yes. my dad always kind of made fun of gays but nothing that stands out in my mind. maybe something bad did happen and I blank it out? I've thought about that. maybe it would explain why I can't remember much of my childhood? I have never been religious.
I just don't believe it. I don't believe srs works. just like I don't believe I'm pretty. I mean everyone can tell me I look good and it feels nice for the second I read it, but I don't believe it.
I don't know how any guy would want to be with a girl like me, I don't think its fair for me to like a boy because of the way I am. I don't think I will ever be able to think positive long enough to schedule and wait for surgery. I think vag is gross and wonder why I want one. just the fact of 'wanting' it confuses me in contrast to just having something and accepting it?
yeah, I'm totally starting to think I'm just a crazy person and not trans? maybe my sexuality its just about wanting to be a girl. the want. maybe its just sexual and getting srs ruins it?
I have no sense of who I am. when I think about myself, I think about a boy :(
Here's a good thing to test if it's sexual. Does your transsexualism go away just after an orgasm?
Mine doesn't. I even wake up with a wish to transition, every morning recently. So it's not just sexual,
it's much more than that.
You being disgusted by the big bad vagina is a serious issue, which might indicate that you are not
a transsexual. Honestly, I'm not qualified to give you any more than that. Speak with your therapist about it.
I might have a possible solution, though. I once was disgusted, very briefly I mind you, by everything feminine -
now I realize that I was just fighting my own inner woman. Perhaps you are the same in this regard?
Also, please, let a person that wants to be with you decide whether he or she likes you or not.
Embrace relationships, they're healthy.
.
OK to be clear all genitalia is gross... a small percentage are aesthetically pleasing
if anyone is having doubts , they just probably shouldnt
Quote from: oZma on November 13, 2012, 05:05:21 PM
OK to be clear all genitalia is gross... a small percentage are aesthetically pleasing
And here I thought I had intimacy issues... Genitalia are no more gross than
any other part of human body. It's just all a result of our evolution.
Seriously though, speak to your therapist about this a.s.a.p. if you hadn't done so already.
oZma my earliest sexual fantasies were as a woman with a man. I could never get off on anything else. Being a man with a man grosses me out. One of the reasons I started transition was because I had a straight woman's sexual attractions and could never be happy in a relationship as a man with a man or woman.
There are men out there for us, I know because I hear about them all the time. I think you are just being overly negative towards yourself and your situation.
over it
It's hard not to analyze you too much, your mind bounces around so much.
You seem to be thinking might SRS cure your negative feelings and self hatred. It won't.
I'm getting SRS because i'm female and females have a vagina.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on November 13, 2012, 08:55:10 PM
oZma my earliest sexual fantasies were as a woman with a man. I could never get off on anything else. Being a man with a man grosses me out. One of the reasons I started transition was because I had a straight woman's sexual attractions and could never be happy in a relationship as a man with a man or woman.
There are men out there for us, I know because I hear about them all the time. I think you are just being overly negative towards yourself and your situation.
I know quite a few gay cis men who if you get them drunk enough will fess up to sometimes fantasizing of having sex as a female with a man.
Doesn't really mean anything.
I though female was biologically speaking and woman was when speaking of gender? In which case I know quite a few biological males with vaginas :P
Quote from: charlie on November 13, 2012, 10:49:33 PM
Lol after all that essay writing!
i love it! sooo funny you quoted me before i edited it! haha
but what you write is exactly what i want us to do... just write, see what comes out, translate those thoughts in your head to words!
by no means do i marginalize those who don't have issues, i just merely don't understand and i stated that :)
and note... i don't feel like SRS will solve my problems. i'm just afraid that i'm overlooking something. i'm afraid there is something right under my nose. i guess i'm looking for stories that i can relate with?
Quote from: Ave on November 13, 2012, 10:54:13 PM
I know quite a few gay cis men who if you get them drunk enough will fess up to sometimes fantasizing of having sex as a female with a man.
Doesn't really mean anything.
I though female was biologically speaking and woman was when speaking of gender? In which case I know quite a few biological males with vaginas :P
Everyone has their fantasies, quirky or otherwise. However this was my orientation. Would a straight cis female not normally fantasize about being a woman with a man?
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on November 13, 2012, 11:13:14 PM
Everyone has their fantasies, quirky or otherwise. However this was my orientation. Would a straight cis female not normally fantasize about being a woman with a man?
sure thing :)
I really want to read 50 shades of grey, wonder if it's worth it?
Quote from: Ave on November 13, 2012, 11:21:02 PM
sure thing :)
I really want to read 50 shades of grey, wonder if it's worth it?
I don't know, I mostly read military sci-fi/fantasy.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on November 13, 2012, 11:27:17 PM
I don't know, I mostly read military sci-fi/fantasy.
cool, can you recommend any books/series? I'm on the market for some good ones, regardless of genre.
Quote from: Ave on November 13, 2012, 11:31:19 PM
cool, can you recommend any books/series? I'm on the market for some good ones, regardless of genre.
Gaunts Ghosts
Your sexual preferences have nothing to do with your gender identity.
There are plenty asexual transsexuals out there. Just saying.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on November 13, 2012, 11:27:17 PM
I don't know, I mostly read military sci-fi/fantasy.
Patrick O'Brian's "Aubery & Maturin" series (aka Master & Commander). Twenty books with the language and action authentic to the late 18th / early 19th Century. There are twenty books in the series and many of the naval actions are based on actual actions documented in Royal Navy ships' logs. O'Brian had access to the Navy Archives at the National Maritime Museum in London.
Quote from: Alyx Vox on November 14, 2012, 03:13:47 AM
Your sexual preferences have nothing to do with your gender identity.
There are plenty asexual transsexuals out there. Just saying.
Ok, you all are reading it wrong. Let me help you out.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on November 13, 2012, 08:55:10 PM
oZma my earliest sexual fantasies were as a woman with a man. I could never get off on anything else. Being a man with a man grosses me out. One of the reasons I started transition was because I had a straight woman's sexual attractions and could never be happy in a relationship as a man with a man or woman.
There are men out there for us, I know because I hear about them all the time. I think you are just being overly negative towards yourself and your situation.
Stop reading the "with" part and read the "as" part.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on November 14, 2012, 09:31:35 AM
Ok, you all are reading it wrong. Let me help you out.
Stop reading the "with" part and read the "as" part.
Hmm, perhaps you should read my post more closely as well?
That's exactly my point. Besides, having sex as a woman (trans-woman too)
with a man is a heterosexual practice. All she had to say was "I'm a straight woman",
here "woman" being her gender identity and "straight" being her sexual preference.
Quote from: Alyx Vox on November 14, 2012, 03:13:47 AM
Your sexual preferences have nothing to do with your gender identity.
There are plenty asexual transsexuals out there. Just saying.
this is true....Kinda.
If ones sexual orientation is hetero, female identified, then one could never be happy or fulfilled as a male having sex with anyone. In this sense our sexual orientation is intimately tied to our gender identity.
Quote from: aprilrain on November 15, 2012, 08:21:18 AM
this is true....Kinda.
If ones sexual orientation is hetero, female identified, then one could never be happy or fulfilled as a male having sex with anyone. In this sense our sexual orientation is intimately tied to our gender identity.
Thank you
Quote from: aprilrain on November 15, 2012, 08:21:18 AM
this is true....Kinda.
If ones sexual orientation is hetero, female identified, then one could never be happy or fulfilled as a male having sex with anyone. In this sense our sexual orientation is intimately tied to our gender identity.
I guess, but sexual orientation is not all there is to transsexualism.
As I already said it, in my case I just don't feel at home in the body
I have now. I also want to express myself as a woman. Even if I were
the last person on Earth I would still transition if it were somehow possible.
Okay, here's my experience.
I haven't transitioned and as of now, don't plan on transitioning. I'm in my late 30s.
It takes a lot of mental effort to keep the dysphoria under control, it's very tiring and it interferes with most aspects in your life.
I am happy (mostly), I identify as a heterosexual, but am happily married, monogamous and mostly satisfied in my sexual life. It will depend on your partner and who you are though.
Sometimes I get sad thinking of what might have been and role playing where I would be in my life had I decided to transition.
If you're as far ahead where you are in your transition process and still doubtful of the surgery, then, maybe there´s no harm in waiting it out for a few years (if you can mentally handle this, there might be another sort of innovative procedure for transgendered people in the future).
Anyhow, I've said it once and I'll say it again, there is no one true path or solution on how to live your life. You do what must be done under the circumstances you're living,
Quote from: Alyx Vox on November 15, 2012, 11:28:42 AM
I guess, but sexual orientation is not all there is to transsexualism.
As I already said it, in my case I just don't feel at home in the body
I have now. I also want to express myself as a woman. Even if I were
the last person on Earth I would still transition if it were somehow possible.
True true, no arguments here.
For me my sexual orientation is intimately tied to my gender ID however if i never had sex again : O I'd still be a woman.
Quote from: Alyx Vox on November 15, 2012, 11:28:42 AM
I guess, but sexual orientation is not all there is to transsexualism.
As I already said it, in my case I just don't feel at home in the body
I have now. I also want to express myself as a woman. Even if I were
the last person on Earth I would still transition if it were somehow possible.
No one said that it was...
Quote from: Alyx Vox on November 13, 2012, 08:29:38 AM
Male genitalia under HRT become useless,
why clutch to them? I just get an impression that
you don't want to part with your male parts, due to
whatever reason. Please, don't hesitate to correct me
on the account of me being wrong.
Detransition is unwise if you weren't happy before
your transition and are happy now. Are you?
That's the ultimate question. All of us were unhappy
in our male bodies. It's okay to feel confused sometimes,
don't mistake that for unhappiness.
You look like every other woman to me,
if you want to become more feminine, give
HRT more time. It's a gradual process. And stop that
nonsense about "growing old and not looking cute anymore"
as a reason to detransition. I don't see any cute old men around,
do you? I do, however, see my share of cute elderly women.
SRS is the final step for most of us. Don't live in the past,
live in the present with your head into the future. The past is dead.
Sexually... yeah! Having multiple orgasms in a succession helps too.
In terms of self-image: it brings our bodies closer to our minds.
useless? i know plenty of people who dont plan on srs and still function / get erections when they want them etc
Quote from: aprilrain on November 15, 2012, 08:21:18 AM
If ones sexual orientation is hetero, female identified, then one could never be happy or fulfilled as a male having sex with anyone. In this sense our sexual orientation is intimately tied to our gender identity.
This ... This ... This ... THIS!
My experience EXACTLY!
F*** it. I'm still advocating that sexual orientation is nothing like
gender identity. Both are different concepts and happiness has
nothing to do with it.
Imagine your body as an immaterial cloud, you would still be attracted to
people of the gender you are attracted to. The same with gender: imagine
you're the last person on Earth and you'll still want to be your "brain" gender.
You don't even have to ever be in a relationship to understand that you're attracted
to one or both genders or are repulsed by one or both of them. Same with gender, you
just know you're in the wrong body.
In my example, I'm bi and I have difficulties becoming intimate due to my gender dysphoria.
It's the same with MaidofOrleans, but with me it just goes both ways.
We're not talking on subjectivity of happiness here, but rather on the definitions of both
sexual orientation and gender identity both of which are objective properties that have NOTHING
to do with one another (yep, I'm an empirical woman, sue me). So, please spare me the emotional nonsense,
other people suffer as much as you do (did?) without losing the objective edge.
Quote from: Alyx Vox on November 19, 2012, 03:45:33 PM
So, please spare me the emotional nonsense,
other people suffer as much as you do (did?) without losing the objective edge.
what are you talking about, what "emotional nonsense" ???????
aprilrain, if we wish to analyze something objectively
the first thing to go are the emotions that are inherently
subjective. That's what I'm talking about.
That's why I'm not a big fan of rhetoric when it comes to
a debate or, the non-existent god forbid, the polemics.
your posts are making less sense to me as we go.
My PERSONAL experience is that MY gender ID and MY sexuality are tied to each other, not reliant but still intrinsically linked. You can tell me that my experience is wrong all you want that will not change the way I feel about the subject. You are welcome to have your own experience and I'm OK with it being different than mine.
Quote from: aprilrain on November 19, 2012, 05:07:35 PM
your posts are making less sense to me as we go.
My PERSONAL experience is that MY gender ID and MY sexuality are tied to each other, not reliant but still intrinsically linked. You can tell me that my experience is wrong all you want that will not change the way I feel about the subject. You are welcome to have your own experience and I'm OK with it being different than mine.
That kind of talk is what I'm referring to.
Objectivity on the other hand is something we can all agree upon
under the weight of facts and logical reasoning.
Quote from: Alyx Vox on November 19, 2012, 05:21:41 PM
That kind of talk is what I'm referring to.
Objectivity on the other hand is something we can all agree upon
under the weight of facts and logical reasoning.
yes dear
I should clarify my position, as I see I'm being mocked here,
which I don't have a problem with.
I'm arguing that both these concepts are independent of one another.
However, independence doesn't imply isolation. Once again I'm arguing
about their definitions, not their relationships. There is a difference.
Both sexuality and gender are perfectly independent of one another,
but they can also work in a perfect tandem, just like everything else in
your body and mind. To argue that they are both dependent of one another,
which is what you're doing here, is a fallacy of composition and a hasty generalization.
Quote from: Alyx Vox on November 19, 2012, 03:52:23 PM
aprilrain, if we wish to analyze something objectively
the first thing to go are the emotions that are inherently
subjective.
Well there's your problem. You're talking to a bunch of girls that are high on estrogen and you want to throw emotion out the window ;)
Seriously though, I don't think anybody said they're completely dependent on one another. I am going to say that the way I perform in bed is COMPLETELY linked to my gender ID. I never could, and never will perform a typical guy role in bed. Not that straight women couldn't with a man... but with all the uncomfortable feelings that I'd get penetrating anybody, or having my sexual organs touched in any way... I'd get flashbacks of being a boy!! It's just not something I could do. So in that sense yes, our sexual function CAN be linked to our gender identity.
Maybe it's not sexual orientation per se, but sexual roles are DEFINITELY linked to gender identity for many of us straight girls I imagine. And I can imagine for those of us that sat in the bathtub when we were 3 and 4 years old trying to sit on our penises so they wouldn't show (yeah I did that...), any acknowledgement of having a penis as a function of sex (or anything positive) is a traumatic event!
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on November 20, 2012, 03:00:13 AM
Well there's your problem. You're talking to a bunch of girls that are high on estrogen and you want to throw emotion out the window ;)
Seriously though, I don't think anybody said they're completely dependent on one another. I am going to say that the way I perform in bed is COMPLETELY linked to my gender ID...
Yeah, no argument there, as I said I was talking about definitions (entities) and not relationships (links). I should've just clarified myself earlier, because I see there were a lot of misunderstandings from both sides since my original post.
Being controlled by emotions as opposed to being emotionally intelligent in females is one stereotype I would like break. I'm a thinker, always was, emotions to me will always come second. Not to say I don't want to have feelings, no. One of the reasons I want to transition is that I was dead inside before realizing I was a transsexual. I'm more happy now than I ever was.
Still there are parts of my "male" personality I would like to keep, such as emotional intelligence (and just plain old intelligence), my extreme confidence and boldness, not being afraid to speak my mind, being in control of myself and not being submissive unless I want to be submissive.
Not that I was much of a man up to this point. It's not like I was drinking beer with buddies on a regular basis, talking about football and chasing skirts in the meantime or enjoying any kind of competition and being dominative. But the very deep core of my personality I would like to keep, otherwise I'm betraying myself and you should never do that.
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on November 20, 2012, 03:00:13 AM
Well there's your problem. You're talking to a bunch of girls that are high on estrogen and you want to throw emotion out the window ;)
Seriously though, I don't think anybody said they're completely dependent on one another. I am going to say that the way I perform in bed is COMPLETELY linked to my gender ID. I never could, and never will perform a typical guy role in bed. Not that straight women couldn't with a man... but with all the uncomfortable feelings that I'd get penetrating anybody, or having my sexual organs touched in any way... I'd get flashbacks of being a boy!! It's just not something I could do. So in that sense yes, our sexual function CAN be linked to our gender identity.
Maybe it's not sexual orientation per se, but sexual roles are DEFINITELY linked to gender identity for many of us straight girls I imagine. And I can imagine for those of us that sat in the bathtub when we were 3 and 4 years old trying to sit on our penises so they wouldn't show (yeah I did that...), any acknowledgement of having a penis as a function of sex (or anything positive) is a traumatic event!
I don't think that's dependent on orientation. There are gay girls who feel/felt the same way.
Quote from: Alyx Vox on November 20, 2012, 03:33:19 AM
Being controlled by emotions as opposed to being emotionally intelligent in females is one stereotype I would like break.
Estrogen changed that for me totally. I couldn't help it. I can't argue angrily without screaming now, when before I was always cool and even tempered. But the hormone effects us all in different ways. It was a joke anyways :)
Quote from: Sarah7 on November 20, 2012, 09:32:12 AM
I don't think that's dependent on orientation. There are gay girls who feel/felt the same way.
I'm sure. But I was kinda giving reason behind why they're linked for some us.