I just got ma'am on the phone again and just want to die!!!! I can't stand it!!!!!! It fills me with RAGE!!!!!!! Someone just kill me please!!!!!!!! Put me out of my misery!!!!!!
You can' depend on t alone to change your voice and the way it passes.
Guys talk in a very monotone way, not doing that even with a lower voice can have ma'med on the phone.
If you have a very monotone voice you should be fine. I'm pre-t, and I have an extremely high voice.
Before I changed my tone, even girls would point it out. Now it passes fine and I'm not even on t yet
Do some voice exercises. Talk to yourself and learn to control your voice.
Don't let go up and down like a roller coaster. Keep it like a boring flatline.
Passing on the phone is the ultimate test, don't beat yourself up about it. Usually by 4 months on T your voice will drop enough to make you pass ont he phone, but it also depends on the speech patterns. It also depends whose calling. If it's your cell phone company or something, they have info on you in your database beforehand. Unlike mtfs, we have the privilege of being able to change our voice through hormones.
of course, it's frustrating though, but don't take it too personally. It's nowhere near as frustrating as being misgendered to your face. Your day will come.
I hear you.
After over a year one would expect to get sir on the phone ... sorry ... maybe you should try a different doctor ... this one seems to not be getting you where you want to be... if it makes you feel better I still ge ma'am and I am almost at a year
Sorry about this post. I was really upset. I had just got'n off the phone with the endo answering service and the guy called me ma'am and that just killed me. I'm already down and depressed and the just did it for me and made me angrier.
@Jayr: Thanks, I'll keep that in mind when I'm on the phone. I always mean to talk deeper on the phone but it starts off deep, then goes high.
@Jayboicurtis: Thanks. I'm almost 2 years on T that's why I'm so frustrated my voice doesn't pass on the phone. And also, friends and family remember say my voice hasn't changed that much, and really, it hasn't. It's got'n a little deeper, but nothing drastic, people still recognize my voice who haven't talked to me a years.
@Christopher_Marius: Are you on T?
@Robert Scott: Sorry your still getting ma'am on the phone too, I know it sucks. The thing about getting a different doctor is 2 reasons, 1: I'm lazy. I've looked up other doctors but I just don't want to go through the hassle of getting another doctor. 2: the doctor's office is just around the corner from where I live and since my car is not working right now I can walk to my appointments.
Quote from: Dominick_81 on November 21, 2012, 09:25:36 PM
@Robert Scott: Sorry your still getting ma'am on the phone too, I know it sucks. The thing about getting a different doctor is 2 reasons, 1: I'm lazy. I've looked up other doctors but I just don't want to go through the hassle of getting another doctor. 2: the doctor's office is just around the corner from where I live and since my car is not working right now I can walk to my appointments.
Uh, but he isn't doing you any good. What would it matter if the doctor would be next door and you can go in your pjs, if he does you zero good. You have been going for months and you are not doing better, in fact are getting worse emotionally. Perhaps there is another way to get to appts. But you should fire a doctor who isn't helping you.
--Jay J
Quote from: aleon515 on November 21, 2012, 11:16:26 PM
Uh, but he isn't doing you any good. What would it matter if the doctor would be next door and you can go in your pjs, if he does you zero good. You have been going for months and you are not doing better, in fact are getting worse emotionally. Perhaps there is another way to get to appts. But you should fire a doctor who isn't helping you.
--Jay J
I went to a therapist once. He was rude and made me feel worse.
He was 15 minutes away from my house and cost me nothing.
You only live once, I don't see the point in wasting time with crap like that.
So I fired him the second session and never went back.
Found another therapist, 3 hours away and charged a lot.
But he was GREAT and gave me my letter right away.
If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be getting HRT in January.
''If You Do What You Always Did, You'll Get What You Always Got.''
aleon515: and Jayr: You guys are right. I just have anxiety doing that which is making me hold off on doing that. She's trying to find me the right dosage but it's taking forever and when I finally got to the right dosage, I switched over to the andro gel.
I don't know if it's her taking a long time to find the right dosage or if it takes years to find the right dosage...? I mean, it took over a year to find the right dosage on the shots, not sure how long it's supposed to take on andro gel...? I heard it's a long time though.
Anxiety and depression can make you freeze and interfere with your decision making. It's too bad we can't discuss dosage, but I am not the right person for that either. The thing I do have experience wtih is not T, but using self-advocacy to get the medical care I deserved.
I was severely and chronically depressed when I was younger. I did not get better. I discovered there was such a thing as purely biochemical psychiatry, neuropsychiatry. I decided I should go get some of that. I asked for the best people to see in the city I lived at the time. I was given 3 names and went to one of them. He was easily 10X more expensive than the person I was seeing at the time at like $10+ minute. (This was a LONG time ago.) It was a good thing this was biochemical stuff as I was not working steadily. This changed my life. (He did not figure out I was trans or even Asperger's-- but then I guess I can't have everything. LOL).
But the thing is I just kept asking questions and so forth. If this doctor is not helping you you need to see someone who can. Years and years of being miserable are very expensive and time-consuming. I could never work full-time.
Btw, the guys here who are using topical aren't on androgel at all. They are using a compounded cream, so I don't know if that is a difference too. Some people can't absorb the topicals either. Another possibility is that the doctor is raising you too fast and the T turns to estrogen. (NOt sure how that works exactly but I have heard of this.) This is why you need someone who understands this really well.
A possibility for someone really scared of needles and so on might be subQ T. I think there are guys here on this, but basically instead of using a humoungous needle you use a thin needle like for insulin and are just injecting under the fat. I have heard there is no pain. I believe you can even use an autoinjector for that, though I'm not sure.
--Jay J
I see this same thing from MTF, there is a lot more to gendering a voice than pitch. T will lower your pitch but isn't going to change your speech patterns or how you form words with your mouth etc. It takes study of speech patterns, how phrases are said etc to get a good voice down. Listening to people on TV with your eyes closed helps. Also the voice for a guy has to come from their chest, again it's more learned behavior than anything. If you have the pitch and resonance down but the speech pattern is the wrong gender it's just gonna sound weird and confuse people, esp on the phone.
Some people can do it on their own, I paid for voice therapy and it was far and away the best money I spent on my transition.
I'm actually learning a lot in this thread. I thought you went on T and your voice got lowered and that was that. The speech patterns weren't a problem. But they are. I pass about 80% in public, but about 10% on the phone. I should try to work on some of this. Although, I do speak lower now. Not just because my voice dropped, but because my voice dropped it helps me feel more comfortable with speaking lower.
I have played with this a littel and read a little. I am pre-T. I can speak a few words by really speaking from the diaphragm. That's where you get resonance. Male voices have resonance and female voices don't have as much. Also female voices are more "musical" a lot of going up and down and rising pitch. You might think about trying to even your pitch out. People talk about this as "talking in a monotone" which is simplistic but I guess works.
There aren't a lot of speech therapists working with transguys. I don't think they'd get many comers. I live in NM and a guy from Phoenix came to our group and said that they had one coming in to work with them. The most common complaint is that they present as gay even if they are not.
This is just a really common thing with transwomen as the only alternative is shaving the largynx which isn't even guaranteed to work. So people do a lot of work with videos or actual speech therapy appts.
But you might google this and see if you can find stuff to help you out here.
BTW, T can continue to lower your voice for years (I think up to five). So eventually you might get to a range gets more properly gendered.
--Jay J
I know that most of what I have to say is off the subject. But there are other factors other than our voice that determine rather we are identified as male or female on the phone.
The problem with medical professionals is that when we talk to them on the phone they will have access to our file on their computer. If our gender is listed as our biological gender, the caller will feel compelled to address us as such. If it matters we can just correct them and say, politely that we are a she and not a he. Myself being a old people pleaser just let it go, because when the person hangs up they are out of my life.
If it bothers you not to be recognized as your gender then correct the person. When it comes to legal documents and doctor's files see if a note can be made upon the file to call you by your real gender and not the one you were born with which is probably checked on your legal files and medical files.
When I applied for my senior citizen transportation pass which allows me to ride free in my county, I was dressed similar to how you see me in my picture. When the lady who was processing my bus pass saw that I was listed as male on my driver's licence, she asked me if I wished to be identified on my bus pass as a male or female. I said female. That's what she did. This identification is just on the computer and not stamped into my bus pass.
Some people will be more accommodating and some will not. We don't know until we are in a position to state our preference. My problems come in in dealing with Social Security and Medicare where I am listed by my biological gender, male, instead of my real gender, female. This problem is self perpetuating when you let it go for over fifty years and all of your job, financial records, and official papers have you listed by your biological gender and not your real gender.
These problems become more difficult to correct if you wait until you near your retirement years. Unless I can be listed as male to female to tie all of my official records together.
Michelle, I hope that last advice post wasn't aimed at Dominick! ???
When developing the male speech pattern, you need to decide rather you wish to sound like a biker, a cowboy, macho man from the hood, or have speech patterns like Mitt Romney or President Obama. Be one of the guys with a bunch of guys. Pick guy flicks that fit your personality style. There is such a wide range of what it means to be male from the physically tough to the intellectually tough, to the street smart tough, to the nerd. Are you going to have speech patterns like Walker Texas Ranger or like his partner or like Eddie Murphy or like one of the many male rappers or like Randy Travis.
You need to be yourself, but also consider what part of male society you wish to fit yourself into and how you see your future. Then just listen to the male voices and physical body movements of the males you identify with most.
Finding a group of guys that you feel safe and secure hanging out with will help you a lot. Then just be one of the guys and let your male ego hang out.
Lots of luck.
I think that Michelle has a lot good to say, esp when dealing with some kind of bureaucratic system-- health care, schools, etc. Or telemarketers (however I have fun with them now-- is Ms. _________ there. "No, there is no one here by that name." LOL! Or "Is this the lady of the house?" "I'm sorry there is no lady in the house."
I have very good luck dealing with the satellite company (DirecTV has actually been really good about this!) I say "This is ________. Please do not call me Miss or Ma'am". But just about anybody who wants your business will try.
--Jay J
Quote from: Stephe on November 24, 2012, 04:43:04 PM
I see this same thing from MTF, there is a lot more to gendering a voice than pitch. T will lower your pitch but isn't going to change your speech patterns or how you form words with your mouth etc. It takes study of speech patterns, how phrases are said etc to get a good voice down. Listening to people on TV with your eyes closed helps. Also the voice for a guy has to come from their chest, again it's more learned behavior than anything. If you have the pitch and resonance down but the speech pattern is the wrong gender it's just gonna sound weird and confuse people, esp on the phone.
Some people can do it on their own, I paid for voice therapy and it was far and away the best money I spent on my transition.
I heard an MTF (I think it was Princess Joules on Youtube) saying that she changed her voice by taking a book and reading outloud every night in the voice she wanted. By practicing for a set period each day, it helped make the voice she wanted sound more natural and eventually it just became habit to speak like that all the time.
I am sure this would help FTMs as well. Just speaking a little bit lower than normal and practicing the speech patterns would probably help a lot along with the T.
T will lower your pitch but isn't going to change your speech patterns or how you form words with your mouth etcThis is what my cousin said to me. She said I still have the same speech patterns and stuff.
Btw, the guys here who are using topical aren't on androgel at all.Really? I thought there were guys on here that were on andro gel as well.
A possibility for someone really scared of needles and so on might be subQ TI'll bring that up to my doctor. Where is that given? In the thigh?
I thought you went on T and your voice got lowered and that was that.That's what I thought too. On youtube when guys to their voice checks it gets deeper and deeper each month, there's not change in the way they speak either, they just speak normal.
BTW, T can continue to lower your voice for years (I think up to five)What if you've been on the wrong dosage for years... will your voice continue to lower once your on the right dosage after 5 years?
The problem with medical professionals is that when we talk to them on the phone they will have access to our file on their computer.They know me as Dominick there. When I call the endo office I always says this is Dominick calling. But this was a answering service when the office is off to lunch so they don't have any names in front of them. When I need to leave a message with the office they ask who they are speaking with and I tell them my name.
If it bothers you not to be recognized as your gender then correct the person.I was gonna do that, but I think he would have hung up before I got the chance to correct him.
Quote from: LearnedHand on November 24, 2012, 10:32:31 PM
I heard an MTF (I think it was Princess Joules on Youtube) saying that she changed her voice by taking a book and reading outloud every night in the voice she wanted. By practicing for a set period each day, it helped make the voice she wanted sound more natural and eventually it just became habit to speak like that all the time.
I am sure this would help FTMs as well. Just speaking a little bit lower than normal and practicing the speech patterns would probably help a lot along with the T.
That's a good idea to try.
QuoteI thought you went on T and your voice got lowered and that was that.
That's what I thought too. On youtube when guys to their voice checks it gets deeper and deeper each month, there's not change in the way they speak either, they just speak normal.
That's why so many of them are read as gay!
QuoteBTW, T can continue to lower your voice for years (I think up to five)
What if you've been on the wrong dosage for years... will your voice continue to lower once your on the right dosage after 5 years?
All that a lower dose does (that looks funny in print) is lengthen the time it takes for your voice to fully mature. It will happen, but more slowly.
You have really had your share of dosage frustrations. First you're on a really low dose, then you finally get it right, then you start taking finasteride and switch to gel. If you plan to stay on finasteride, expect things to take longer, even if you get the gel dose exactly right fairly quickly.
Didn't you say that you're getting more blood drawn in December?
That's why so many of them are read as gay!
Really? I never read them as gay. The voices sound deep to me.
All that a lower dose does (that looks funny in print) is lengthen the time it takes for your voice to fully mature. It will happen, but more slowly.
Oh, I see. As long as my voice will get deeper, that would be good.
Didn't you say that you're getting more blood drawn in December?
Yeah, but hopefully before that. I'm gonna call the office tomorrow and see if I can get blood work done either tomorrow or the next before I have my appointment with the doctor on Nov. 30th so we can discuss my dosage and to see if the andro gel is working or not and to see what my other options of T are.
Ok, there are a couple things I could answer maybe.
*Yes there are guys here taking androgel but all people who take topical do not take androgel and use compounding pharmacies. Actually the route I plan to try first.
*Getting read as gay (even if you are not) has nothing to do with depth of voice and everything to do with phrasing, pitch varying and so on. If your voice goes up and down sounds less masculine regardless of how low you speak. Mind you I don't think it is a big thing to get read as gay. I don't think I would mind as long as I were read male.
*Phrasing, controlling pitch, and resonance make a low male voice male and a low female voice female.
*Taking up to 5 years to get your voice lower I suppose depends on dose. Low dose, from what I have heard actually can protect your voice. But of course transition takes longer. I suppose if you took very low dose T, your voice would continue to get lower. Low dose isn't really low dose, it is slow dose. Whatever changes you should get you'll get, but they would take a long time.
*SubQ is usually given in the stomach. There are videos on youtube showing how it is done. You can use an autoinjector (I think) because you don't have to aspirate. OTOH, it is said not to hurt otherwise. I think it can be given other places but you need a thick amt. of fat. It is a bit new, so the doc has to be willing to learn. You can find info online and take it in.
*I don't know re: correcting people as I have done it without issues.
What works better for me though is coming out ahead of time and saying I am _____ please do not call me miss or ma'am.
--Jay J
It's also good to remember to relax and breathe and speak with an open throat.
Trans men tend to pinch their throat a bit when they speak and it gives us a bit of a "smurfy" sound which sounds feminine.
And short and simple replies when possible/applicable.
Helps.
aleon515 and Miniar: Thanks.