Hi all,
So I started seeing a guy I met at the straight bar a few weeks ago, and last night I came out and told him I'm mtf post op. I thought it was the right thing to do, especially since I wanted to see where things could go between us.
I'm 24, identify as a straight transgirl, and I do try my best to fit into the mainstream/cisgender/straight world as much as possible, with the exception of a support group I go to once a month. I've never been in a relationship, pathetic as that is, because everytime a guy knows he runs for the hills, or I'm just not into him anyways. I was hoping to experience what it's like to have a bf sometime this century like everyone else seems to.
One of the girls met in Montreal who had her operation around the same time as me is very passable and is also a hetero tgirl. She says she never tells guys she dates because it's not a significant part of her life, and as soon as you get anything TG out in the open, sh*t happens, especially if you're trying to be as mainstream as possible.
I should have listened. After I told him, he said he had no idea, but know that he does know, he "can tell." And he thinks that other people such as coworkers and friends etc will be able to tell to, and it may be uncomfortable for him. I don't blame him. I thought I passed better, but I guess not. He says he needs time to think so we left it at that.
Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut but, my scars down there are visible, and I do have TG friends, so eventually it will get out in the open. I have said in the past when questioned that I had a cervical tumor and had to get it removed. Every guy I told this too believed me. But I didn't want to lie to this guy, I actually cared about him.
I'm not looking for mr. right, I'm just looking for the here and now. Everyone else seems to be able to walk in and out of relationships like it's nothing. It's rare for any other girl to find mr right unless she kisses a few toads first, and I'm ok with that. I just want to experience that.
In the past, I've been with pretty much any guy I can get (married, ->-bleeped-<-s, you name it), and this is the reason why. I feel like it's all I'm capable of.
Sorry for the rant, any insight? Thank you!
Well, unless you can see the future, I think you should disclose immediately. You never know if Mr. Hereandnow can eventually become Mr. Right, especially if you just met. If you only want a one night stand, then don't tell him (that way he'll actually choose to brag to his friends ;)). However, if you want to find a lasting relationship, then not disclosing early could be what makes or breaks the deal.
Imagine this: You meet a guy who you never came out to. After a couple of years, you decide to come out to him. As a result, he finds it hard to trust you and decides being with you is a bad idea. I'm not saying it's guaranteed to happen, but do you really want to take that chance with a guy you think could be the one? I'd say either disclose early or don't tell at all, but that's just my $0.02.
PS--> Never being in a relationship at 24... how is that pathetic? All that means is that you haven't found someone good enough for you yet. ::)
Hi Tessa, poor wording on my end, I do want Mr. Right but Here and Now isn't much of an issue I guess. But sometimes it would be nice to have either. Here and Now could just be a temporary boy friend. I'm not talking about one-nighters.
And you're right Diana, it just seems like I'm such an amateur when it comes to relationships compared to most others.
Quote from: Icephoenyx on November 25, 2012, 10:34:14 PM
And you're right Diana, it just seems like I'm such an amateur when it comes to relationships compared to most others.
Umm, just so you know, I don't have any relationship experience, nor will I have any in the foreseeable future. Thus, I don't know if my advice is credible. It's just an educated opinion.
I would do the same if I were you. I don't have much experience either when it comes to dating so don't feel bad. Last year I was still preop and I blew off one of the most handsome and nicest guy I have ever met by telling him I'm trans. I wasn't even brave enough to tell him in person either, I texted him. He disappeared obviously but I got over it quickly because it was early on so not much heartbreak. I just moved on. I don't care too much about dating anymore at 39 years old. There's more to life than dating and relationship JMHO.
Self-disclosure is part of the delicate dance of intimacy. As women of male history, we just have a more unusual tidbit in our past than most women, but every person deals with how to share, how much to share, when, with whom.
I can tell you that (setting any trans* issues aside) premature sharing, and sharing more than your partner, strangles more relationships than late sharing does. Waiting to share something is not the same as lying, which does tend to kill relationships when it is about substantive matters.
As wonderful human beings, we have an ethical obligation to share those things that directly impact the person we are with. All else falls under human privacy, and should be shared as we feel safe AND in proportion to what is shared with us.
So, if I have a transmittable disease, I will disclose before any physical intimacy so that we can both take precautions.
If I know that I was sexually abused and that certain things trigger me to have very bad experiences, I won't go into detail but I will explain what we should avoid before we are in the situation that would bring those things up for me.
If there are attitudes or opinions that are complete deal breakers for me (like racism, sexism, homophobia, or transphobia) I will share those criteria early on, so that we can part civilly if he or she holds those beliefs, before our hearts get too attached. I have transgender people who are family members or lifelong friends, and I couldn't be with someone who doesn't respect them as the men or women they are.
I will be honest and up front about my marital status because that is important to me. There can be terrible entanglements when dating a married person who is still attached in one way or another to there spouse.
If we are to the point of considering long term/life long commitments, or if it is clearly dating for that purpose (some religious people for example put all this in the first date!) I will disclose that I can't have children because of medical treatments I received for a life threatening illness, but I would love to adopt and raise children with the right partner.
My gender past? I'll share it when I feel its right, or when it impacts the person I'm with, whichever comes first.
Sorry to hear it didn't worl out, but if he couldn't stand that then he probably isn't up to the rest of the things that come up over the years.
It's not just men, cis-lesbians can be as bad. Watching the figurative shutters dropping when they found the woman they were talking to was trans was becoming a regular thing.
I am now in a relationship with a post-op woman and it feels right for the first time ever. So don't give up on the search, and a casual fling along the way is okay in my book too. Enjoy.
Karen.
Quote from: Icephoenyx on November 25, 2012, 09:09:52 PM
I should have listened. After I told him, he said he had no idea, but know that he does know, he "can tell." And he thinks that other people such as coworkers and friends etc will be able to tell too, and it may be uncomfortable for him. I don't blame him. I thought I passed better, but I guess not. He says he needs time to think so we left it at that.
My wife heard that line time and time again during her pre-op days and especially when the potential b/f needed to get a "second opinion".
Please don't let this kill your self esteem. You can look around at almost all the women in a grocer store and nit-pick them to death to declare them as really "one of those".
When I was younger, I started going out with a guy who I had known via a circle of straight friends - and as I didn't want the others to know, I never said anything to him (I was post op at the time and our sex life was good). Well the dating got more and more serious and as the weeks passed by, it became more and more difficult to tell him. Then one evening we were sitting talking and the question of babies came up and marriage. Well in those days it was illegal for me to marry a man and it was (and still is) impossible to have babies - so I decided that it was crunch time and I had to explain everything to him. I ended up hospitalised he was so angry at me.
Ever since then, I have told shortly before going on a date with guys as this gives them the chance to back out gracefully (but few rarely do) - but it was a salutary lesson for me. If you get involved in a relationship and you haven't told him about your past, it does become harder and harder to tell the truth at a later date - and quite often things will turn violent as they can perceive this as you trying to hoodwink them.
Just my humble opinion though gleaned through bitter experience.
Quote from: Carol Uren on November 28, 2012, 06:09:31 PM
Well in those days it was illegal for me to marry a man and it was (and still is) impossible to have babies - so I decided that it was crunch time and I had to explain everything to him. I ended up hospitalised he was so angry at me.
I'm so sorry you had to go through such violent experience. The same thing happened to many post-op tg I know (including some celebrity who opens up her painful experience in an interview) Thank you so much for sharing this with us. There are, however, many post-op tg friends of mine who their partners don't care about their past and have a successful loving relationship so don't give up on Mr. Right just yet.
Thanks Mintra, it was a long time in the past and I have had a few really great relationships since then fortunately. Not all men are b*******s and I have had the good fortune of going out with a number of really nice accepting men (and no, I'm not a slut LOL). I guess I was unlucky in that particular circumstance, but it did make me realise that being honest and open about my past is the right way to go about it - for me. Yes, I have lost a couple of 'dishy' men because of it, but on the other hand, I have never again been subjected to the violence of that evening.
Thank you all for the help --- UPDATE: So he has come around and we are dating now, but there are a few 'conditions' if you will:
First, no one else can know, except for a very select few friends and family he is very close with.
Second, I have to pass every second of everyday to fulfill the above condition of no one else knowing.
Third, in order to pass more than I already do, I have to go on a diet and exercise more. He says that I have a belly and a flat ass (both I agree with) and that gives me away because guys get fat in their abdomen and girls get fat in their rear. Again, I agree with this, but the way he keeps pointing this out is kind of tough.
He also said that he doesn't really want to bring me to his company xmas party because I might be clocked and his rep will be ruined. Understandable -- we are still trying to compromise.
I do think passing is important, and I already pressure myself a lot, so I don't really want it also coming from someone else. But I do get his concern, especially since he's never been with a transgirl.
Is he being a bit harsh, even though I get it, and to some extent, agree with him?
Quote from: Icephoenyx on November 30, 2012, 05:09:00 PM
Is he being a bit harsh, even though I get it, and to some extent, agree with him?
I don't think he's being harsh so much as he is being realistic. He wants to stay with you because he knows that you are type of person he wants to be with; however, unfortunately, there are people out there who frown upon trans people. Thus, keeping your trans status on a need-to-know basis is the optimal way to terminate any problem before it starts.
Although I agree with his notions too, I must say that to blatantly call you fat shows that he might need to learn how to talk to women. ::) :laugh:
Quote from: Icephoenyx on November 30, 2012, 05:09:00 PM
Is he being a bit harsh, even though I get it, and to some extent, agree with him?
No, he wants the benefits, you do all the putting out and it's all conditional because he's ashamed of being caught with a transexual woman. This is not ever going to be a relationship it's totally one sided and selfish on his part. It's going to cause you to lose whatever self esteem you now have and cause you more self loathing for agreeing to submit to his BS. When you are considering a relationship with someone and they come up with conditions of any kind you need to ask yourself "What is his motive and what's in it for him?" Then ask yourself those same questions along with, "What am I willing to sacrifice to make it work without killing who I am?" I'm wishing you well sweetie, don't settle for less than you are worth!
Honestly, I'm not sure it will ever be worth it to you. He's paranoid as hell about people finding out he's dating a transsexual. He's always going to point out the "flaws" he sees now that he knows, "flaws" that he wouldn't think twice about if you were cis. Like Shantel said, it will take a toll on you over time.
Just my two cents, take it for what it is worth. I've been in plenty of relationships in my lifetime, some wonderful, some awful. The worst warning sign I know is someone who wants to fix, repair, or change you, and is ashamed in ANY way of associating with the real you. People with that attitude towards you, whether you are cis-, trans-, tall, short, heavy, slim, brainy, ditzy, it doesn't matter; they are abusive and will always find a way to find fault and to destroy your sense of self-worth in order to control you and control the relationship. When they are that way in the early "honeymoon phase" of a relationship, there is true hell coming later on. Please be careful. That is a toxic kind of love you are being offered. You are worth much more, but if you are with a jerk like that, true love will pass you by because they will see you are taken. It can take a long time to recover from the emotional effects of that subtle erosion of your confidence and pride.
I agree with most ladies here. You'll lose your self-esteem with his controlling and abusive behavior. I learned the hard way with this guy I dated 12 years ago who wanted to keep seeing me on a regular basis for company and sex but we almost never be seen in public together. I just don't want you to get hurt and lose your self -worth like me. There are plenty of guys out there who will accept you for who you are.
oh wow im glad im not the only person who's thought this... i feel like i've been playing life on hard mode because im transman.
Everyone treats me like a novelty like im not even a human being. So when it comes to females they just kind of wont treat me like a male, they'll try to find out my birth name and use it to tease me. Im almost 20, I've never had a girlfriend and im thinking just like that, that i dont care to find a wife now, ill totally settle for just SOMEthing so i can actually feel like a human.
And yep i see everyone around me just snap their fingers pretty much and they get whoever they want in a relationship with them. If i was just a cis guy i would have SO MUCH less problems ugh.
Well good luck friend... i hope you find someone. It'd give me some happiness to see my sisters happy. know what i mean? ;)
<3
Edison
Quote from: Icephoenyx on November 25, 2012, 09:09:52 PM...
I should have listened. After I told him, he said he had no idea, but know that he does know, he "can tell." And he thinks that other people such as coworkers and friends etc will be able to tell to, and it may be uncomfortable for him. I don't blame him. I thought I passed better, but I guess not. ...
You were passing just fine. Now you have begun to educate people on how to spot a trans woman, namely you. There is a principle sometimes referred to as the Law of Attraction. Whatever you focus on, whatever you think about, whatever is active in your mind, in your thoughts... you will get more of.
So, if you are thinking about being trans then you will get more of being trans. Now it is much easier to use this principle to your advantage (in the case of "trans" women if you pass as female). If you exchange your focus for being trans and adopt a focus of being a mainstream female, then you will get more of that.
If you are a trans woman and if being trans brings you happiness then feel free to stay in trans head space.
If however you want mainstream female life and you pass as female then hang out with mainstream people, make mainstream friends, etc. It's simple.
What you have done is help someone to identify a trans woman and how he can educate his friends on how to do the same.
Sometimes I realize that by just living as female and by never admitting to being trans I am helping Society to learn to accept trans women as females. Because people know about me, I have a mother and a father and I don't pass 100% of the time, plus I have people talking about me behind my back, rumors, etc. By never admitting to anything except being female I believe I have shown many people that trans women are women. I don't feel anyone can get that result by announcing they are "whatever" because when you announce you are something other than what you are attempting to be, you are sending a message that creates dissonance.
Just my 2.
Quote from: wrabbit on December 01, 2012, 11:42:05 PM
ill totally settle for just SOMEthing so i can actually feel like a human.
And yep i see everyone around me just snap their fingers pretty much and they get whoever they want in a relationship with them. If i was just a cis guy i would have SO MUCH less problems ugh.
<3
Edison
Wrabbit,
Being a trans-guy you surely know that the gals expect you to do some homework and develop some technique in public before you can have them in private to display another type of technique. Having been on both sides of the fence I know these things. Trust your Auntie Shan on this!
Icephoenyx, you already have a ton of great advice but I thought I would add to it. As a cisgirl I have quite a bit of dating experience, and I can tell you men will treat you the way you allow them to treat you. Some men are huge JERKS, you need to set a standard and if a guy falls below it then YOU need to be the one to RUN away! I agree that if you see any potential for a relationship then it may be better to broach the subject that you're trans only because any relationship needs to be built with a solid foundation of trust. If a guy can't see you for the beautiful woman that you are then move on.
I hate that you feel like you need to take what you can get & that this man has set CONDITIONS for you to meet in order for you to date him!! This is ridiculous! Number one, I'm sure he couldn't 'tell' before you told him or he would have brought it up. Secondly, his conditions are quite frankly, crap. He should be PROUD to have you on his arm at his company xmas party or anywhere else. I don't know who he thinks he is telling you that you need to work out more or lose a little bit of a tummy. Is he perfect? Maybe you should tell him that in order for you to date him he has to develop six pack abs.
In all seriousness, if you allow him to set the tone for your relationship with conditions then he will always do so. Men are a dime a dozen, there will always be another one around the corner! He was attracted enough to you to date you before he found out, I think this is HIS failing within himself. No woman is perfect, whether they were born that way or not we all have flaws. I don't really have any belly fat, but I can tell you I have a flat butt, and that's not really anything you can change. Sorry that you have had to put up with this man, and you do DESERVE better. Good luck
Hi Spring0721, That is some great advice however belly fat or a flat butt doesn't change your gender.
The difficulties that women who transition face go much farther than appearance issues. When you are transitioned a rumor or some information about your history can destroy your relationships, career, friendships, etc.
I remember a female friend heard the rumor that I had transitioned, she proceeded to explain to me how to wipe my butt after going to the bathroom, front to back. As if I would naturally be too ignorant to figure out how to do that on my own because... implication being, "I am really just a man playing a woman."
I have had SRS, FFS, BAS and I have been on hormones since 2000. I was in a bar where I worked and a guy was telling me, "I can tell you are a man by your shoulders, hands, height, pelvis, feet... Then he tells me he wouldn't ever have sex with me because he isn't gay and then directs me to his friend saying, "My friend here is bissexual, he will give it to you. (Keep in mind I was just working, I wasn't soliciting sex.)
Group think tells us that we have to convince Society that men can become women but we contradict ourselves, saying we were never men to begin with (typically). So in social interactions where we feel risk is involved we frequently decide to play it "safe" and confess that we are men who became women. But Society doesn't believe that men can become women, Society believes that men can become trans women which is a whole different thing. However many of us don't transition to be trans women.
And many men have zero interest in dating trans women because they do not consider trans women to be women. And truthfully it isn't something where we can make a broad generalization either way and instead it is something more personal and tends to be evaluated on a case by case basis. In other words does transsexual woman X seem like a female to you? Would you date her or consider female? Would you marry transsexual woman X, would you risk being seen with her knowing it might change other people's perception of your sexual orientation?
So it goes deeper than a flat butt or some belly fat.
I use women who were born female as my role model. Just like women who were born female I will never admit to being a man or a transsexual woman. Do I pass 100%? No... I don't. But there is so much trans-awareness these days that many women who were born female don't pass either so I just stick to the truth I adopted long ago, I have always been female. I don't add in the part about that being why I transitioned.
Life is what you make it. My prescription won't work for people who haven't finished transition. People who have not finished transition tend to feel like they are harboring secrets. If someone is serious about living the life of her target sex then she will do everything possible to have that life, including moving and exchanging old friends and associates, coworkers... for new ones. Many of us compromise and spend the rest of our lives disappointed.
Essentially you can't tell Society that you are a man who became a woman and be accepted as female. There is a feeling that we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. It is possible to find men who will accept us. It is also possible to accept ourselves as female and to no longer need acceptance from others. I feel that the best option for myself is self-acceptance, I accept myself as female, as a woman. And other people are expected to do the same however I don't contradict myself anymore or send mixed messages that people can't wrap their minds around. I am just another vanilla woman out there 24/7. I don't confess to being anything other than that.
If someone noticed my scars down there I would ask, "Are you trying to say you don't love me anymore?" I would never allow it to become a conversation that changed my gender. I would also avoid lying. In my own opinion lying is lazy. Don't get me wrong I have lied before and I would do it again but with someone who is supposed to love me there are alternatives like I mentioned at the beginning of this paragraph.
I think his initial response pretty much says it all.
You told him about your gender history when he hadn't noticed it before. But now, magically, "he can tell." Really think about that response. He's not seeing anything new physically. It's not like he's suddenly blinking his eyes and getting better eyesight and a clearer mind.
What has actually changed? Now you've told him, and now he's forcing himself to see you as something he sees as fundamentally different and inferior. And it sounds like that process took all of ten seconds after you told him. I don't really know him, so I can't say for sure, but I'd bet good money this is a person who will never be completely accepting of a transgendered partner. This isn't about gender. When you have a partner who microscopically focuses on what they see as your "flaws", who are afraid of the backlash if their friends see their "flawed" partner, that almost always is just a reflection of their own lack of self-confidence. And this mix of insecurity and projection is a toxic combination to have in a partner. It only ever escalates. Heck, you've already seen it escalate.
If you're ever going to be happy in a relationship, you need someone who first and foremost sees something a lot simpler: "you." Not woman or trans woman or whatever else.
And conditions? Really? Especially isolating you from his social circle, like some shameful fact of his life to be avoided. Do you really think he respects you as a person at this point? What he's saying doesn't even make sense. I want you to realize that. It doesn't make sense, and it's not about you.
Stop for a second and think about the actual range you yourself have seen in cis women. Some are slim and beautiful and radiant. And some are plain-faced, square-jawed, with more than a little extra around the waist. I'm not saying that's you. My point is that even for cis women with features like that, almost nobody thinks, "Oh yeah, she was definitely born male." I haven't seen you, but if you passed to him for weeks, then I'm 99% sure you pass perfectly fine, and this fear of you being "clocked" is 99% in his head.
This seems to be going in a very bad direction. You don't need guys like him. It's fine to have partners who you don't have a deep emotional connection with, who you're just casually dating, provided they at least respect you. That's kissing a few toads. This guy does not respect you. Entering into a relationship with somebody who is displaying emotionally abusive tendencies right off the bat isn't it.
You can definitely do better than that. I'm not saying that to chide you. I honestly believe there is much better out there for you. Just be patient and respect yourself. It's easier to find companionship and happiness by doing that than by swinging at every bad pitch which comes your way.
I don't really know what to tell you about disclosure. That's a really messy topic. I'll defer to the experience of older and wiser women on that.
But I have been down the "take what I can get" road where I ignored what I needed and wanted for the sake of "being with someone." It's great. You can have as many partners as you ever want, and they'll all think you're great, and you'll tell yourself you need them, and you'll wake up each morning a little more empty. It messes you up. And if you started messed up, like me, it messes you up even more. That's really not what you need.
Just realize you're worth more than this. You deserve a man with the balls and self-respect to know everything about you and your gender history and still feel proud to have you on his arm going down the street. That's not this guy. But he is out there. Don't sell yourself short.
I think it's better to give people time to know you until you start telling them.
That guy isn't telling you his own private things for sure!
Also, you should find another man who isn't ashamed of you being TS. you are better than him.
All I can offer here is to tell you that it's better to tell them right away.
There is some psychos out there and sadly I have heard of situations where the girl
was beat up and yes even killed after she tells her bf. It's better to tell them right away
and in public. There is a lot of bisexual men who will not be even slightly
bothered by it.
I think you should always remember that for your own safety because
even if you hide it like your friend, they might find out somehow.
Of course if you live in a really primitive rural area there is ways
to find out if it's safe to tell him....I mean once you get into a conversation
you can always find out how conservative he is and his views on homosexuals
and transexuals.
As a guy, the boyfriend's behavior here is disgusting and definitely nothing to do with love.
Love cares about others, not one self.
I love my wife. More than anyone else or anything else I love. That means I'd risk my job, my friends, my finances, my security, my ego, my reputation and even my life for her. I believe she would do the same for me. That's what it is supposed to look like.
Certainly, I'm sure there are things she'd like me to be different than I am. And no doubt there are things that I'd like to be different in her. But I love who she is, not who I want her to be.
She asked me about some cosmetic surgery a while ago that might make it easier for her to pass. My response still holds: I love you, I love the way you look. If you want surgery for yourself, if it is something YOU want, I'll be there for you through it and help you any way I can. But I don't need it, nor do I want you to do it for me.
I'd add that this type of relationship, with conditions and desire to change, as well as making sure nobody knows (or practically nobody) seems exactly like the kind of relationships that end up with violence. It's the trans person's fault when she doesn't pass and the transphobic boyfriend's friends/family/employer finds out. But the reality is that it's going to come out at some point - it's impossible to cover all tracks and history. (edit: when I say it's the trans person's fault, I mean to say *in the eyes of the violent creep, it's the trans person's fault* - obviously no victim is at fault for violence, but I left that key part out!).
Please, find someone who loves you, not hates who you are.
Quote from: Slanan on December 09, 2012, 10:28:33 AM
As a guy, the boyfriend's behavior here is disgusting and definitely nothing to do with love.
Love cares about others, not one self.
I love my wife. More than anyone else or anything else I love. That means I'd risk my job, my friends, my finances, my security, my ego, my reputation and even my life for her. I believe she would do the same for me. That's what it is supposed to look like.
Please, find someone who loves you, not hates who you are.
Great post Sianan, that goes ditto for me too!
Kick his *ss to the curb is my opinion lol! After you told him, then he tells you that now since you told him he sees the male in you?? Wtf is up with that?? He did not know at all and is just using that as an excuse, because his manhood cant deal with it. After realizing you are "hot" and a nice person, he wants to date you, but there are "conditions"?? Screw that!.. You do not need that kind of relationship. There are plenty of guys that will respect you for who you are. What he is doing is abusive and you are an attractive person. You dont need that kind of man in your life. I can not believe you want to put up with this nonsense. Just because you are TS doesnt mean you have to take that from a guy. I will bet you are more attractive as a woman than he is a man You are a woman..be treated like one, and he is NOT.
Quote from: Icephoenyx on November 30, 2012, 05:09:00 PM
Thank you all for the help --- UPDATE: So he has come around and we are dating now, but there are a few 'conditions' if you will:
First, no one else can know, except for a very select few friends and family he is very close with.
Second, I have to pass every second of everyday to fulfill the above condition of no one else knowing.
Third, in order to pass more than I already do, I have to go on a diet and exercise more. He says that I have a belly and a flat ass (both I agree with) and that gives me away because guys get fat in their abdomen and girls get fat in their rear. Again, I agree with this, but the way he keeps pointing this out is kind of tough.
He also said that he doesn't really want to bring me to his company xmas party because I might be clocked and his rep will be ruined. Understandable -- we are still trying to compromise.
I do think passing is important, and I already pressure myself a lot, so I don't really want it also coming from someone else. But I do get his concern, especially since he's never been with a transgirl.
Is he being a bit harsh, even though I get it, and to some extent, agree with him?
Ok Ice sweetheart if a guy ever made conditions like that, I would kick him to the curb immediately.
I say drop his butt and find someone who cares enough and has enough human decency. If a guy made those conditions with any cis girl I guarentee he'd regret it.
What a jerk...
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on December 11, 2012, 05:07:29 AM
Ok Ice sweetheart if a guy ever made conditions like that, I would kick him to the curb immediately.
I say drop his butt and find someone who cares enough and has enough human decency. If a guy made those conditions with any cis girl I guarentee he'd regret it.
What a jerk...
I agree. He is being unrealistic and is totally not worth the worry. I say get rid of him. If he can't like you for you, then he doesn't deserve you.
There is a song that goes *your love is what i want but what i need is a man who will treat me good* imperfection will always be found in everything,even people.its only when we stop looking for perfection that we find,we have what we need.you will never *sadly enough* find a perfect man,relationship or love.so i think its time to put away the images and open up to what you two can fulfill for each other emotionaly,physicaly,and mentaly.for example,blue eyes are very beautiful ill admit but someone with dark eyes show a warmth,compassion and deepness about them.and NEVER give away such information to anyone until you know their feelings on such issues first.ask questions and see their reaction *how do you feel about things like --- ?* and work up the ladder,in time IF they are ment for you-they will take that information well and even walk with you and if they show alot of distance,non acceptance then walk away-never look back and find someone else who will.such opinions are a mental state,not the heart.things we are taught as we grow up,so many are not going to accept that.alot of the older people anyway,i was taught not too but my heart over rides the rubbish and coldness people tried to make me follow.so i like to think as a child born in the 70's *during war,free love and much liberation* i was a rare breed in a time when hatred ran rampant. so my advice to you is 1) let go of the perfection-when looking for someone to accept you,perfection is the last thing you will find. 2) be slow with your heart and learn what you need before hand,find out who they are mentaly and their views then act accourdingly. these will help you ALOT in the long run.
This is why it's bad to associate with the normals or mainstream society as you say.
Try dating within a more queer-friendly social pool.
Maybe okcupid. I've had good luck there.
Quote from: Michelle Hayden on December 10, 2012, 06:51:57 AM
Kick his *ss to the curb is my opinion lol!
Seconded. DTMFA.
For me, personally, it would put me under too much strain, and give this potential partner too much power over me, to adhere to a list of conditions in order to be together.
It's not fair to you. Yeah yeah, life is rarely fair, but it's nice to exercise control over those precious few things in life we have control over.
Being alone sucks (sometimes), but I would choose not to settle for a situation in which I feel like I can't be myself without reference to someone else's demands.
I don't think you should have told him, if you pass AND had SRS then why tell him? Your just gonna keep getting rejected over your birth gender. Maybe you'll meet a straight guy who doesn't care but chances are very slim. Most straight guys if they had a choice would choose a cis female over a trans female, it's sad but true.
Quote from: PoisonEnvy on December 20, 2012, 07:38:54 PM
I don't think you should have told him, if you pass AND had SRS then why tell him? Your just gonna keep getting rejected over your birth gender. Maybe you'll meet a straight guy who doesn't care but chances are very slim. Most straight guys if they had a choice would choose a cis female over a trans female, it's sad but true.
Sometimes you can't control who you fall in love with.
First, I want to applaud you for coming out to him.
I am a big advocate for telling people you are in a relationship about the truth.
In the world, I am stealth. I am a woman. I do not even classify myself as transsexual unless I have to in a medical situation. I don't go to trans support groups and the only involvement in transgender issues I am involved in is this website. Other than that, I have no involvement anymore.
With that said, I am 100% telling the man or woman you are dating about your past.
A lot of trans people say "who cares!" or "It's none of their business." But when someone begins to share their life with you, it starts to become their business and when someone is intimate it is certainly their business.
Sometimes I think the ones who say "Who cares if you tell him" ever had a trans related relationship. I am not trying to sound mean ...what I am trying to say is that when a relationship develops honesty, trust, and the sharing of each others lives become part of the relationship process. You cannot keep that a secret. Your family past, any time you go to the hospital with your lover, and everything else will eventually have them find out.
I also have heard people say, like PoisonEnvy, "your just gonna keep getting rejected over your birth gender."
That's an absolutely false statement. I told guys who asked me out (even before my surgery) and I have had VERY wonderful relationships with VERY wonderful men. DO NOT let the nay sayers bring you down. I am proof that there are men who are not ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s who will step beyond their level of "normalcy" if they care for you.
Something to think about to those who say "I don't think you should tell him." Next time, take a look at the transgenders who was killed and honored on Transgender Day of Remembrance. Many of them were victims of being in a relationship where their boyfriend found out without the girl telling them.
I have had boyfriends, I have told them on day one. I am here to tell you what you did was right.
Quote from: Annah on December 22, 2012, 09:54:03 PM
First, I want to applaud you for coming out to him.
I am a big advocate for telling people you are in a relationship about the truth.
In the world, I am stealth. I am a woman. I do not even classify myself as transsexual unless I have to in a medical situation. I don't go to trans support groups and the only involvement in transgender issues I am involved in is this website. Other than that, I have no involvement anymore.
With that said, I am 100% telling the man or woman you are dating about your past.
A lot of trans people say "who cares!" or "It's none of their business." But when someone begins to share their life with you, it starts to become their business and when someone is intimate it is certainly their business.
Sometimes I think the ones who say "Who cares if you tell him" ever had a trans related relationship. I am not trying to sound mean ...what I am trying to say is that when a relationship develops honesty, trust, and the sharing of each others lives become part of the relationship process. You cannot keep that a secret. Your family past, any time you go to the hospital with your lover, and everything else will eventually have them find out.
I also have heard people say, like PoisonEnvy, "your just gonna keep getting rejected over your birth gender."
That's an absolutely false statement. I told guys who asked me out (even before my surgery) and I have had VERY wonderful relationships with VERY wonderful men. DO NOT let the nay sayers bring you down. I am proof that there are men who are not ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s who will step beyond their level of "normalcy" if they care for you.
Something to think about to those who say "I don't think you should tell him." Next time, take a look at the transgenders who was killed and honored on Transgender Day of Remembrance. Many of them were victims of being in a relationship where their boyfriend found out without the girl telling them.
I have had boyfriends, I have told them on day one. I am here to tell you what you did was right.
This, This and This!
Quote from: PoisonEnvy on December 20, 2012, 07:38:54 PM
I don't think you should have told him, if you pass AND had SRS then why tell him? Your just gonna keep getting rejected over your birth gender. Maybe you'll meet a straight guy who doesn't care but chances are very slim. Most straight guys if they had a choice would choose a cis female over a trans female, it's sad but true.
Again, I have two huge scars down there that he would have eventually seen. Then what?
Also...
Quote from: calixx on December 15, 2012, 06:40:49 PM
This is why it's bad to associate with the normals or mainstream society as you say.
Try dating within a more queer-friendly social pool.
Maybe okcupid. I've had good luck there.
I ID as a very straight female who goes for very straight masc men. The queer community will likely do nothing for me in terms of a romantic relationship.
I understand what everyone is saying, I don't deserve this. It's just that sometimes I feel like I can't really have those standards because he could go for a cisgirl in a second. And I know there are cisgirls out there who are into him, I've met them and it was pretty obvious.
Second, I do need some sort of motivation to get into shape. Maybe he's providing this kick in the butt to look better. I don't want to look like I'm defending him but I am trying to see this from different angles.....what do you all think?
Quote from: Icephoenyx on November 30, 2012, 05:09:00 PM
Is he being a bit harsh, even though I get it, and to some extent, agree with him?
I'm on the fence on this. I want to pass when I'm out with my BF too. We hold hands etc in public and we do want to be seen as a male/female couple. He has never told me "You need to do X" but I want to look good for him. He has said things like "You look better _____" but mostly trying to help me and be honest. He's never said anything that hurt my feelings.
Might be time to say "Look, I know I need to lose some weight and I want to look good for you. I appreciate your input and I want this to work out and I think it will." to let him know he needs to back off just a bit but that you hear him and appreciate his concerns.
You did make the right move to tell him. Honesty is very important for anything other than a "friends with benefits" type relationship. If he is still on board, he must really like you! :)
Quote from: Icephoenyx on December 24, 2012, 10:08:01 AM
I understand what everyone is saying, I don't deserve this. It's just that sometimes I feel like I can't really have those standards because he could go for a cisgirl in a second. And I know there are cisgirls out there who are into him, I've met them and it was pretty obvious.
Second, I do need some sort of motivation to get into shape. Maybe he's providing this kick in the butt to look better. I don't want to look like I'm defending him but I am trying to see this from different angles.....what do you all think?
What if a cisgirl says that she needs to look like a model just for her boyfriend to stay with her? That sounds ok?
In a relationship, what matters most is the personality and how each one complements the other. Are you sure you want to stay with someone who only wants your looks? What if you get ill, or need help? doesn't sounds like he cares at all about you.
Getting into shape is a good thing, but I think you must to do it for yourself, not for the people.
We need to love ourselves first in order to love others.
Quote from: Icephoenyx on December 24, 2012, 10:08:01 AM
I understand what everyone is saying, I don't deserve this. It's just that sometimes I feel like I can't really have those standards because he could go for a cisgirl in a second. And I know there are cisgirls out there who are into him, I've met them and it was pretty obvious.
Have you considered realizing your inner Cis girl?
Let go of your attachments or you will become their slave.
I can just imagine this guy stringing you along, treating you like dirt because he can always threaten to leave you.
I know most people have a difficult time with the things I say. A woman isn't a Cis vag, a woman is a human being, start treating yourself like the woman you are and stop being a substitute for a "real" girl.
If you don't believe in you then no one else will, and then seeking "acceptance" will become your personal Hell.
Anyone who tells you you aren't a real woman isn't an actual human being. Unless you are the one telling everyone you aren't a real girl, then it isn't really their fault. If you advertise yourself as soiled merchandise people will treat you like soiled merchandise.
I made that mistake once, too. So I'd not tell unless it is a really serious relationship. Date and have fun. Have (safe) sex and have fun. When you meet 'the one' I'd be more inclined to tell, but not until you know for sure.
I wish there were a way we never had to tell, but the way life is, it is better that your significant other hear it from your lips and not some well-meaning friend or relative.
I told my SO on the third date as it was obvious that he was very interested (as was I) but wanted to get it out there before any physical stuff happened. It was a non-issue. Until then I couldn't allow myself to get excited, because I knew telling could end it.
As far as not telling others, I have told him that NO ONE will be told, and I will deny it to my death, LOL. ie he can't tell his family and friends. So far, nobody can 'tell.'
Jay
Quote from: sneakersjay on December 31, 2012, 09:57:22 AM
I made that mistake once, too. So I'd not tell unless it is a really serious relationship. Date and have fun. Have (safe) sex and have fun. When you meet 'the one' I'd be more inclined to tell, but not until you know for sure.
I wish there were a way we never had to tell, but the way life is, it is better that your significant other hear it from your lips and not some well-meaning friend or relative.
I told my SO on the third date as it was obvious that he was very interested (as was I) but wanted to get it out there before any physical stuff happened. It was a non-issue. Until then I couldn't allow myself to get excited, because I knew telling could end it.
As far as not telling others, I have told him that NO ONE will be told, and I will deny it to my death, LOL. ie he can't tell his family and friends. So far, nobody can 'tell.'
Jay
thats a very wise practice :)
i tell the guys i start to get serious with too. Its better that way. Trying to hide, tell family members to lie for your past and friends and everyone else in between is not a good way to foster a healthy relationship
if the person you like walks away when you tell them near the beginning is better and you know what they are like before anything gets serious
Quote from: O_O on December 31, 2012, 07:09:34 AM
I can just imagine this guy stringing you along, treating you like dirt because he can always threaten to leave you.
And what difference does it make if a woman is cis or trans? Men "make demands" and women do as well. This statement has nothing to do with someone's gender status. The above can be true in any relationship. If he is "treating her like dirt" for any reason, she should dump him. Guys can always threaten to leave you over anything.
Now if he explains things that would be "deal breakers", nothing wrong with that. I can understand him saying "You really have to pass whenever we go out" as a reasonable request. And how is that request any different than if she was doing it your way and was stealth? She would have to pass 100% of the time anyway.
My deal breaker is if I find out my partner has lied to me about anything after we got serious. I don't know many relationships that weather that very well.