Firstly, sorry about all the posts today, having lots going through my mind. I've read on several of the posts on here that if you have mental health problems you can't start T or have top surgery etc. This worries me. I suffer from depression and anxiety and am currently working with people from CAMHS (child and adolescent mental health services for those outside of the UK who don't know what it stands for). Can somebody please clarify if this will affect my chances of starting T or getting top surgery in the future? I'm really worried now.
Joey
That's not entirely true, I am Bi Polar and my doctor and psychologist/therapist are trying to help me and show that my gid is serious and not a by product of being bi polar, she is trying to find the patterns for me and help me out. It is important to find one that wants to treat the whole person.
Ah right. My mental health problems stemmed from other factors I think and I had feelings of being the wrong sex long before my mental health problems occured. I will discuss this with my psychiatrist after Christmas goes.
Joey
yeah you will want your doctor to emphasize that your mental problems do not disqualify you, they will have to show a surgeon on paper that you have a real need.
No, the discussion was relating to someone trying to do self harm. If you're cutting or attempting/threatening suicide then no doctor is going to ok any transition.
A lot of people have clinical depression. That shouldn't bar anyone from proceeding with transition. A lot of the time a trans person is depressed because of not transitioning. Starting transition can ease depression in some cases.
Quick derailment, I've never seen an alien on a treadmill play Hangman before!
Another Quick De-Railment, Simon did my thread on aliens, awaken some subconscious entity in you?
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on December 22, 2012, 08:02:32 PM
Quick derailment, I've never seen an alien on a treadmill play Hangman before!
There is a first time for everything and in the age of the interwebs that is saying something, lol. :P
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on December 22, 2012, 08:08:33 PM
Another Quick De-Railment, Simon did my thread on aliens, awaken some subconscious entity in you?
I should go read and respond to that, lol. I'm just a big Sci Fi geek. I was going to do a Star Wars theme but didn't come across much I liked.
What this person needs is someone with experience with the UK system to answer. Experience in the American system is not the same, nor is it equivalent.
What Tekla said.
But in the US, at least, it's not accurate -- not for depression, and not for self-injury. Neither of them is an absolute bar to any transition.
My doctor never mentioned that it would be a problem when I spoke to him once or twice last year and he knows about my history of self harm, depression and suicide attempts. Actually, the suicide attempts might throw up their own problems as I recently found out that my father believed that I was faking it even though I was in hospital, so my notes are going to be full of him saying I'm a liar and an attention-seeker. I refuse to let that stop me though.
I follow one guy on tumblr who has self harmed and gotten on T with the NHS so I doubt it's a problem. depression and things like that are so common in trans people because of our dysphoria if they stopped everyone who's ever felt like that then there would be no one transitioning.
oh and I'm a UK guy
I have a lot of experience with the UK mental health system (through myself, my mother, and several other members of my family) and I'm going to give you an annoying answer....it depends on which psychiatrist you talk to....and it greatly helps to have one with experience treating trans patients.
What is "supposed" to happen is that they need to determine whether or not your issues are causing your GID. Now it seems common sense that a large proportion of trans people have anxiety and depression BECAUSE they have GID and that transitioning would help.
I'm not sure that makes sense so I'm going to try and summarize it :P
If they believe your anxiety and depression are causing your GID, they will want to "cure" the former before even looking at the latter
If they believe your GID is causing your depression and anxiety, then you're good to go
If they believe your GID and depression/anxiety are totally separate to one another...then things may get complicated. They may want to tackle both at the same time, which might include various types of meds on top of taking T or it may just involve continuing to see someone to talk about how things are going. Or they could decide they want to tackle one thing at a time - a psychiatrist not familiar with trans people is more likely to opt for tackling the things they are more familiar with.
Now CAMHS specifically...I'm not 100% sure...I've only been on the "adult" side of things. From what I've read though it seems really hard to get T if you're under 18, regardless of mental health issues - so I can only assume that having mental health issues and being under 18 is going to make it harder. It's certainly not impossible because I've seen it happen but I don't know how they did it.
Hi there,
I only have experience with the American health care system - yI have a history of self harm and suicide attempts. I am also bipolar. I've been on testosterone for about 10 years, had top surgery in 2006 and had phallo this year. So no, having mental health issues or diseases do not have to prevent you from continuing with your goals. For the record, I have not self harmed since I started testosterone (unless you consider my heavy-ass work outs a form of self harm) and as far as being bipolar, that is someting that I will have to live with and has zero bearing on whether or not I am a man or woman. I dont really buy into my diagnosis so much though, I just see myself as being extra moody.
I think experiences with the American health system ARE relevant. If my country barred me from transitioning, I would be looking elsewhere very quickly.
Mental problems is very normal for transgenders, I don't think I know many trans people who haven't had depression, addiction, suicide attemtion, cutting, or something ells, yet is on transition
manly Alot of those facts have been caused of the pressure and stress to be trans, Not nessesarry but I feel in many caise and for some transition have cured certain of those problems.
as I say, transgender isn't an mentall illness, but you can get mental ill from being trans*
meaning, im agenst the label of us being ill because we are trans, but alot of transfolks are threatned so badly that it somehow or another infect there mental health sooner or later, like any other person.
Thank you for such detailed responses. I'm now a little clearer on the subject. I believe that my mental health problems stemmed from other issues rather than being trans, although my issues with my gender does contribute to it significantly. I have anger problems as well as depression and anxiety and I just don't want this to stop me from transitioning when I choose to as these problems were caused by issues totally irrelevant (I think anyway). I too have problems with self harm. My medical notes are full of so many problems it scares me to think that people will read them and determine whether or not I can start to transition because of my mental health problems. I'm also currently on anti depressants although I don't think they're working so I may need the dose to be increased.
Joey
It probably depends on the laws of where you live.
It was no issue for me; even though I have minor depression and severe social anxiety, and a very LARGE history of mental health issues in my family.
Also, I find it strange that someone would say that, because someone who gets on T usually has to be diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder,
and have this written in a letter before you take it to an endo. Huh...Now I'm curious though.
I'm from the UK and have no idea what the laws are for it here. I don't understand laws that much, or anything to do with the government for that matter haha. I'll see what happens when I talk to my psychiatrist after Christmas.
Joey
Quote from: Joey4 on December 23, 2012, 10:36:25 AM
I'm from the UK and have no idea what the laws are for it here. I don't understand laws that much, or anything to do with the government for that matter haha. I'll see what happens when I talk to my psychiatrist after Christmas.
Joey
Have you tried doing any research on your local laws at all?
I have, but I don't understand it. I probably sound really stupid but I just don't understand laws, I never have.
Joey
Joey, can you get a link to the laws you've found? I've just been trying to look for you -- and me because I'm in the UK with a similar history -- and can't find anything on it. As far as I'm aware all CAMHS have to do is to say that you've not got any other condition, (for example, Body Dysmorphic Disorder, Dissociative Identity Disorder or Schizophrenia) that might cause you to believe that you're transgender. It's not CAMHS place to say whether or not you're trans, but they might want to work through other things with you first to make sure that this is the right path for you. Basically, just remember that everyone wants to cover their own backs now that suing is so socially acceptable, and the NHS is very good at doing that. My CAMHS shrink wouldn't let me stop seeing him even though everyone was telling him that he was making me more depressed because it would look bad if I went and did something after he let me leave, and he wouldn't let anyone else see me because they were all junior to him and he couldn't find a way to help me. So I really hope you're not in Suffolk because I'd not want anyone to suffer him, he's the reason I'm putting off going to see my GP about this again.
Interestingly on the NHS website they say that one of the symptoms for being trans can be anxiety.
The Portman and Travistock GIC will accept self-referrals, so if everything else fails that might be something to look into. As you're under 18 that's where you'd get referred to anyway, but apparently they can sometimes be difficult about accepting self-referrals.
I haven't actually found any laws linking to transgender in the UK. I tried searching for some on Google but I didn't understand any of the results so I gave up. I remember you saying about your CAMHS worker before, that really sucks man. You can request to see someone else if he really makes you that unhappy, or you can go back to your GP and they can go down a different route rather than CAMHS. CAMHS isn't right for everyone. Don't be afraid to go back to your GP. They can't make you go back to him if you don't want to. It's your choice.
I suffer from anxiety because of other problems (I was mugged when I just turnt 13) and that was also the cause of my anger problems. There are a whole lot of other issues that caused my depression too but that's a long story.
My CAMHS worker said about a gender clinic in London or something. Hopefully a referral will be soon
Joey
Quote from: Joey4 on December 23, 2012, 01:00:24 PM
I haven't actually found any laws linking to transgender in the UK. I tried searching for some on Google but I didn't understand any of the results so I gave up. I remember you saying about your CAMHS worker before, that really sucks man. You can request to see someone else if he really makes you that unhappy, or you can go back to your GP and they can go down a different route rather than CAMHS. CAMHS isn't right for everyone. Don't be afraid to go back to your GP. They can't make you go back to him if you don't want to. It's your choice.
I suffer from anxiety because of other problems (I was mugged when I just turnt 13) and that was also the cause of my anger problems. There are a whole lot of other issues that caused my depression too but that's a long story.
My CAMHS worker said about a gender clinic in London or something. Hopefully a referral will be soon.
Joey
Laws can be complicated, and google seams pretty confussing. the only law I know is by the general trans europa thing who mention abit for every country but its not that clear again.
maybe theres some kind of suport group/people who deal with trans folks, who could help to find someone to answer your questions.
He refused to let me see anyone else from his team at CAHMS and my GP said that it would be almost impossible to get the funding to see someone from CAMHS outside of the area. He did find someone who would agree to see me who normally deals with adults struggling with rape/addictions but I got lost in the system before they could arrange the big meeting with nine people in just to talk about whether changing to her would be the right option for me. I'm really worried that I'm going to get landed back with him, or that they're going to think I'm not being serious about this because I'd rather not see anyone than see him, but whatever, I need to do something, just going to wait until after Christmas so my grandparents don't realise that something's up if me and my parents stop talking as we usually do when I try and talk to them something with emotions attached.
Sorry, I'm taking over your thread with my rants. Back on topic:
I asked a guy I know is on T and in the UK on tumblr about this, and this is what I got from him:
The question I asked: "Someone brought up the topic of whether or not having a history of depression/SI would cause a problem with getting on T in the UK. I don't know many other people who have been through the NHS and just wondered if you knew anything that might be able to help at all."
His reply: "It depends on how severe/and/or if you still suffer from depression etc. Generally I found they were really good, if they think you're at a risk then you could be delayed, they just want to make sure that your mental health is okay and you're stable enough to handle big changes that come with testosterone. But with me it didn't hold me back/hinder the time it took to start T/continue transitioning etc"
So although it's not gospel fact that's someone who's been through it's views. I'm pretty sure that they were with CAMHS when they were referred to a GIC. It's calmed my nerves somewhat at least.
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on December 22, 2012, 07:29:13 PM
That's not entirely true, I am Bi Polar and my doctor and psychologist/therapist are trying to help me and show that my gid is serious and not a by product of being bi polar, she is trying to find the patterns for me and help me out. It is important to find one that wants to treat the whole person.
I disagree with this ^^^ The effects of testosterone on the mind (e.g. aggression) are quiet different than those of estrogen.
In any case, any mental health condition is a cause for a pause, consideration and reservations. Now, it all depends on the specifics of the case, and in how well is the mental issue managed and/or controlled.
Nah man, don't worry about taking other the thread, I don't think you are at all. Yeah waiting after Christmas is a good idea; that was my initial plan but I couldn't wait that long in the end. It's worth going back to your GP, if you don't then you'll always be wondering what could have happened, whereas if you do, at least you'll have the answers. There's got to be more people in the team than him, and if you don't get along with him, it's your human rights to ask to see someone else (I do health and social care so I learn about all these rights, if you want any more info about your rights etc I'm happy to find out for you).
That is useful thank you. I still suffer from depression and am only just getting the help I need after about 5 years. I think I'm stable enough to handle the changes, but of course this is something I have to discuss with the CAMHS people. It's made me less worried too. Cheers, I appreciate you asking him.
Joey
Quote from: peky on December 23, 2012, 04:29:44 PM
I disagree with this ^^^ The effects of testosterone on the mind (e.g. aggression) are quiet different than those of estrogen.
In any case, any mental health condition is a cause for a pause, consideration and reservations. Now, it all depends on the specifics of the case, and in how well is the mental issue managed and/or controlled.
If I have anger problems anyway, will T make me more aggressive?
Joey
Quote from: Joey4 on December 23, 2012, 04:36:27 PM
If I have anger problems anyway, will T make me more aggressive?
Joey
Taking testosterone will enhance and augment any aggressiveness you may have.
Ah. Great. I'll discuss this with a professional when the time comes then. Cheers.
Joey
Quote from: peky on December 23, 2012, 04:54:29 PM
Taking testosterone will enhance and augment any aggressiveness you may have.
I didn't think that this was necessarily the case, a lot of the threads on here on the topic have been saying that their anger and emotions
changed but that they weren't necessarily
more angry. Or if they got more angry they calmed down again once their hormones had leveled out again, a bit like PMS I guess. There are plenty of topics on here if you just search 'anger' in the search box, but you should definitely talk to someone if you've already got problems with anger. Too much anger is never a good thing, especially if you like taking it out on windows like I did, because they're expensive...
My CAMHS worker knows about my anger problems, but I don't really know how to make them stop. I just flip out and everything goes black and I can't remember anything I've said or done during that time until I calm down. Lots of people know I have aggression but nobody likes to talk about it, hoping that it will just go away. I like taking it out on walls rather than windows. Hope you're ok though.
Joey
Quote from: Joey4 on December 23, 2012, 05:16:50 PM
My CAMHS worker knows about my anger problems, but I don't really know how to make them stop. I just flip out and everything goes black and I can't remember anything I've said or done during that time until I calm down. Lots of people know I have aggression but nobody likes to talk about it, hoping that it will just go away. I like taking it out on walls rather than windows. Hope you're ok though.
Joey
You should be careful punching things that hard, I can't psyche myself up to punch anything hard after I broke my hand punching the ground as a kid. I'll be throwing the punch and just pull out of it at the last second. It also messed up my hand because I already had something wrong with the tendons that run along the bone I broke and I had to have an operation and can still feel it sometimes 3 years on. I made a punch bag earlier this month and that helps a lot! It's better than punching out 13 of the schools windows and landing yourself a £350 bill anyway, just be careful.
I have no memory of pretty much anything, not sure whether it's from the mess that was my life that I'm still trying to get back together, or whether I've got some sort of memory problem. If you ever want to talk to anyone I can try and relate, it seems like we're going through similar things and are going to be trying to transition in the UK around the same time too.
Quote from: Joey4 on December 23, 2012, 04:36:27 PM
If I have anger problems anyway, will T make me more aggressive?
Joey
Not necessarily. It varies significantly from person to person, as all things do, but it's good to remember that plenty of guys experience a reduction in anger issues once they start testosterone, and that "'roid rage" is a product of levels of testosterone that exceed the normal male range.
I know quite a number of guys who say that T makes them MUCH calmer.
--Jay
Quote from: peky on December 23, 2012, 04:29:44 PM
I disagree with this ^^^ The effects of testosterone on the mind (e.g. aggression) are quiet different than those of estrogen.
In any case, any mental health condition is a cause for a pause, consideration and reservations. Now, it all depends on the specifics of the case, and in how well is the mental issue managed and/or controlled.
This has nothing to do with estrogen or testosterone. The srs surgeons will see the red flag of your mental disorder unless your doctor can show that your gid is not a by product of being schizophrenic or bi polar. I already know this because my doctor said so.
Thanks again for the replies guys. I suppose it could go either way then. I'll talk to the doctor about this after Christmas.
Joey