When I 1st read about Joan of Arc, i had thought she had to have been the 1st famous cross dresser. But were there others before her that were? Men or Women?
Do you mean famous in history or famous on TV
Eddie lzzard
Paul o'grady
Well i was actually thinking history, but Tv is good too.
Mary Read, who was one of only 2 female pirates recorded in history, did until her crew found out she was a woman. Her time is way after Joan though.
My great x 10 Aunt, Deborah Sampson. Veteran of the Revolutionary War:
http://www.nwhm.org/education-resources/biography/biographies/deborah-sampson/ (http://www.nwhm.org/education-resources/biography/biographies/deborah-sampson/)
Joan of Arc wore Armor. I wouldn't call that crossdressing. I would call that her trying to get rid of a patriarchal mindset or doing things that were typically male but had to "sneak" a way into doing men things in an age where it was frowned upon or not allowed.
Same with all the other people mentioned in this thread so far.
Crossdressing is when one wears the garments of the opposite gender because they feel comfortable and/or sexy wearing those garments.
The people listed in the thread so far wore the garments opposite of their gender because of social limitations within their own gender and the life they wanted to pursue were only for men at the time.
Now, some notable Crossdressers in history would more accurately be:
Boston Corbett. (He was the man who fired the shot that mortally wounded John Wilkes Booth). He was known to wear girl's dresses and try to fraternize with the men.
Francis, Duke of Anjou. He was Queen's Elizabeth's only serious consideration of marriage...until she discovered that he loved wearing men's dresses and having sex with the cute boys of his court. This was even briefly mentioned in the movie, "Elizabeth."
Ed Wood. B Movie King of the world. Famous for directing some of the worse movies ever written lol. He labeled himself as a ->-bleeped-<- and even did some short movies of him walking up and down the street in women's clothing.
J Edgar Hoover. Loved wearing his wife's lingerie whenever she was out of town.
Quote from: Annah on December 27, 2012, 10:29:49 PM
Crossdressing is when one wears the garments of the opposite gender because they feel comfortable and/or sexy wearing those garments.
That's a pretty narrow definition. I would say that crossdressing is simply whenever someone dresses up in clothes that are associated with the opposite sex.
Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on December 27, 2012, 10:47:00 PM
That's a pretty narrow definition. I would say that crossdressing is simply whenever someone dresses up in clothes that are associated with the opposite sex.
if we use the word cross dressing strictly as dressing in clothing in the opposite sex then women have been crossdressing for decades.
When someone asks about the history of "crossdressing" on a transgender forum, then it would be natural for me to assume they are meaning crossdressing in a sense where someone dresses in the opposite gender clothing because they want to feel closer to that gender in which they personify.
The examples list in this thread ...those women did not dress in the opposite gender so they could feel closer as a male. They dressed in those clothing because they wanted to surpass the patriarchal job duties.
If we took your def of a crossdresser then Walt Disney's Mulan was a crossdresser. Mennonite women and Amish women who wear pants are crossdressers and any woman to Pope Benedict's standards is a crossdresser who wears pants in the Roman Catholic Church.
Well even if you don't call them cross dressers in today's sense of the word, they were still wearing garments or doing things that people (in general) did not approve of wearing or approve of doing. So they maybe were not trying to feel sexy, but I think Road to Trista has it right, in the broader sense of the meaning.
Quote from: Annah on December 27, 2012, 10:55:18 PM
If we took your def of a crossdresser then Walt Disney's Mulan was a crossdresser. Mennonite women and Amish women who wear pants are crossdressers and any woman to Pope Benedict's standards is a crossdresser who wears pants in the Roman Catholic Church.
I would say Mulan was crossdressing, as were any of those women if wearing pants in their society is really that bizarre.
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on December 27, 2012, 11:01:46 PM
Well even if you don't call them cross dressers in today's sense of the word, they were still wearing garments or doing things that people (in general) did not approve of wearing or approve of doing.
If they were caught, they were not disapproved from what they were wearing. People disapproved because of what they were doing. It had nothing to do with the clothing...rather their actions.
But one of the charges brought against Joan of Arc was for cross dressing.
But while we often get the primary plot points of Joan's brief life correct, the ending has been botched repeatedly. True, she was burned at the stake at the age of 19, but it wasn't for heresy or witchcraft, as the story often goes. In the end, the only crime that the Inquisition tribunal could formally charge the chaste maiden with was that of wearing men's clothes.
Joan dressed as a male and cut her hair masculine because she felt the soldiers would not respect her otherwise.
I crossdress because it's who i am ,a female in heart,soul and mind and of course I'm reaching out to be recognized to who I am am in reality
Mulan isn't quite considered a real historical figure because there isn't evidence of her existence except the ballad. But nonetheless, the legend is pretty old and details her in the Northern Wei dynasty.
J Edgar was never married (to a woman, at least).
His assistant Clyde Tolson was his constant companion. They did
everything together.
Quote from: Annah on December 27, 2012, 10:29:49 PM
Now, some notable Crossdressers in history would more accurately be:
J Edgar Hoover. Loved wearing his wife's lingerie whenever she was out of town.
It has been speculated that Joan of Arc may have been a person with "Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome" (CAIS). There exist no pictures or portraits of her from her lifetime. There are some descriptions. However, an author several years ago made a discover in France that may represent a near contemporary image of Joan. Solving the Mystery: What did Joan of Arc Look Like? (http://www.bilerico.com/2008/10/solving_a_mystery_what_did_joan_of_arc_l.php)
Rene, Duke of Anjou, had known, supported, and fought beside the Maid of Orleans. Near the end of his life, he commissioned as tryptych painted, showing himself and his wife in prayer, surrounded by Saints. Within the symbolism of the painting, one figure remain oddly vague. This is the female "saint" in armor, with a sword in her left hand. She is seen on the right-side panel.
Though painted over 40 years after her execution by the Catholic Church, the legend of the Maid was strong amount the French people, and those who knew her personally, like Duke Rene. Though we will never know for sure, the image below might be the best representation we have of Joan.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Ff%2Ffd%2FNicolas_Froment_004.jpg&hash=95abb19910aa133537e8882685c65cf4c72db267)
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on December 27, 2012, 11:28:07 PM
But one of the charges brought against Joan of Arc was for cross dressing.
I'm pretty certain that Joan of Arc took to wearing what we might call trousers to protect herself from being raped by guards while she slept. Her repeated requests for a female, perhaps a nun were turned down. She was almost forced to use male clothing after her own was taken away when she needed to rise out of bed in the presence of Male guards.
Here in England, in any case, it is now generally accepted that she was executed to remove her as a military threat. The apparent religious nature of the charges being little more than a sham to avoid charges of murder. She is also almost universally accepted here as a heroine and a woman of enormous strength, intelegence and virtue.
But cross dressing as a means of actually passing yourself as a member of the opposite sex is very old, along with all forms of sexual and gender identity varients. This was one of the first major studies I tried when attempting to prove to myself and possibly other that being a poof didn't mean I was insane or a pervert.
That research has long since vanished I'm afraid. I recall records from a number of ancient documents, though I should say that the more ancient ones are mostly second hand. Egypt and Greece had cases of this. As did ancient India. I'm sure some of the Indian example were recorded in some of their more revered texts.
I also recall that in ancient Rome, it was apparently not unknown for some high born young men to assume themselves as women.
I know I had the evidence for most of this once. I can only apologise for not providing it now.