What are your sexual preferences like? How did you decide on your sexuality? What was the process like in terms of how your sexuality developed? Has your sexuality changed over the course of your lifetime? If so, what factors do you think were responsible for said change?
And, of course, if you have any additional insight regarding the uniqueness of transsexual sexuality, please post it!
As for myself, I have a personal interest in the results of those questions. I've said here and there that I'm unsure about my sexuality - an alien idea to me. I find it so strange that I can be unsure about who I'm attracted to, who I would like to be in a relationship with, and/as opposed to who I would like to go to bed with!
Ultimately, time and experience will tell all, but there is one factor that necessitates questioning in advance - SRS. Irreversible, and highly desired by yours truly. I think.
Let me go to the beginning, so perhaps I can start making sense. In the beginning, Testosterone ran through my veins, and I was raised male. I didn't want to be male, but I was. I also happened to be attracted to women - perfectly normal for a male, but not so normal for me, since I thought I was female! In a conservative Christian family, it would be problematic if I were a lesbian, after all.
That didn't matter, of course, until I began transition at seventeen. My family took it comparatively well, as I've only rarely heard of Christian families being in favour of transition. I expected my sexuality to change with hormones, and to an extent it did... I went from liking women to having no clue.
I proceeded to have a couple relationships, and a fling. All of them were anatomically male, though one was with another transitioning MtF, so the anatomy did have some variance. I found that my sexuality wasn't really satisfied with any of them - sex seemed gross, unclean, and I didn't really enjoy myself. A part of why it went poorly was probably because I was (and still am) very unsatisfied with my own body, so some dysphoria remained. Another issue was that I wasn't sure about how to perform - I quickly found out that anal and oral were definitely things I didn't like. What, then, remained was the use of hands. I felt that this level of intimacy was inadequate, though, and it didn't do much for me.
To date, my best sexual experiences have taken place alone.
Fast forward a year, and now I've found my attraction to women again. I'm partially conflicted because I don't want to upset my family, but that's a minor issue. The central issue is how I would approach a relationship to another woman - I mean, my anatomy is still very male, so I can't very well say it's a lesbian relationship. However, if it were treated as a straight relationship, I'd be concerned that my feelings and female identity wouldn't be respected.
I'm also quite anxious about how intimate relations would take place, since I've never been with another woman before, and not only am I unfamiliar with the anatomy from a personal perspective, but I'm also way more shy around women. I have always opened up easier around guys, probably because the girls throughout my childhood treated me like a plague to be avoided. The guys didn't acknowledge my existence, but ambivalence is a better standing than an active dislike!
So, I'm not really into guys while my anatomy is arranged the way it is, but if I had SRS things would probably change quite a bit. It might work out, but the problem is that I don't know for sure. I'm way more attracted to women, but I'm not sure if things would be the same if I did have SRS - I mean, I think that if my femininity could remain fully intact, being non-op with a semi-lesbian lover would be pretty amazing. But, being non-op is a personal hassle that I'd rather avoid. Tucking isn't fun (or easy, with my anatomy), and I am pretty doubtful about whether I could stand having a penis for an extended length of time.
Another option would be to get SRS and pursue a classic lesbian relationship, but I'm honestly unsure about whether that would be sexually satisfying. Romantically and emotionally, sure, but carnally? That's an uncertainly.
The best option would probably to get SRS and find a non-op girlfriend, but I can't really count on being able to find one that would work with my personality. I'd be lucky to have a successful relationship period, so I really need to have broad preferences.
So, there's one more option. Just continuing by myself, as I am. I have to wonder if it's possible to cultivate a romantically and emotionally intimate relationship with oneself that could satisfy the desire for a romantic companion. This would also eliminate the risk of me finding sex to be gross.
I have a lot to sort out. Sexuality is a messy thing.
So, what's your story? The questions at the top would be a good place to start, if you have to think about it too much!
Thanks for reading. Hopefully it came out less scrambled than I think it did; my head is a mess over this.
Well for me I have always been "bi" but! , I have androphobia so to me men are out of the question, however when I first started transistion I was quite stupid because I was scared society would reject me for not prefering men so I tried to force myself to prefer men.
Obviously didnt work, I dont feel secure, etc around men, Eventually I realised I feel safer, more secure, more attracted to, etc with women.
Now obviously this is the extremely simplified way to explain how I came to prefer women but hey no reason to add another essay to the topic :P
By all means, I'd love to hear what you have to essay (Get it? I'm so funny).
That's sort of how I am with women. I'm sort of afraid to interact with them, because I always feel like I'm being judged around them. With men, it's different... but then there's the difficulty of men not being very attractive to me!
Quote from: Kelly J. P. on January 05, 2013, 06:25:15 AM
By all means, I'd love to hear what you have to essay (Get it? I'm so funny).
That's sort of how I am with women. I'm sort of afraid to interact with them, because I always feel like I'm being judged around them. With men, it's different... but then there's the difficulty of men not being very attractive to me!
Well I ignore any form of love for now till I can pass, I am not into someone loving me claiming they can handle my changes then realise Oh no I look lez with her and dump me. I am gonna wait till someone like me for ho I am not what I still appear to be :P
btw I wasnt meaning your inital post was bad because it was an essay I simply meant I cant type they much because when I type I make many mistakes and proof reading that would take me years!
I now consider myself to be polysexual and asexual. By this I mean that I'm attracted to people before I know what their gender is - but I don't want to have sex (even when I'm sexually attracted); I just want romance, intimacy, sensuality, affection.
I've only very recently figured out that I've never been comfortable with sex itself (I was abused by both parents as a child, and that definitely plays a part in this) though I like everything else that goes with it. I'd be very happy with a similarly asexual lover of whatever persuasion or gender.
:P No offence taken. No worries.
And yeah, I can feel that. My first 'relationship' ended because the boy was worried that his friends would think he was gay if they knew about me. I was very unhappy with him for that.
By the way, I remember you from way back when on these forums. You sure did take a long break, and I missed ya. :P
Quote from: Kelly J. P. on January 05, 2013, 06:35:58 AM
:P No offence taken. No worries.
And yeah, I can feel that. My first 'relationship' ended because the boy was worried that his friends would think he was gay if they knew about me. I was very unhappy with him for that.
By the way, I remember you from way back when on these forums. You sure did take a long break, and I missed ya. :P
Me?? you remember me from my old account with 1000 post, Ah yes I was on active kitty back then ^^. Didnt think people missed me.
Part of the reason I left was because I couldnt handle transistion and went of estrogen for a little while but kept on my blockers.
At least I worked out stuff in that time.
Yeah, you were one of the flavours of the forum back then. Maybe I miss you because I'm nostalgic, or because we had some unresolved conflict. I hate unresolved negativity.
I used to be here as a "Jordan R.T.", but I decided against the name when I went full time.
I'm leaning towards keeping Jordan as a name again, because, to be honest, I sort of like a bit of androgyny in a name. Kelly can go either way, too, so I'll probably use it for my middle name.
Quote from: Kelly J. P. on January 05, 2013, 06:44:28 AM
Yeah, you were one of the flavours of the forum back then. Maybe I miss you because I'm nostalgic, or because we had some unresolved conflict. I hate unresolved negativity.
I used to be here as a "Jordan R.T.", but I decided against the name when I went full time.
I'm leaning towards keeping Jordan as a name again, because, to be honest, I sort of like a bit of androgyny in a name. Kelly can go either way, too, so I'll probably use it for my middle name.
True for me I came to Zoey because I didnt want to have a similar name to my male one which starts with a "K", Haha I had many people who hated me on the forum tho because I was honest and not sugar coated all the time XD. I remember the thread I made that made on the whole grown adults dressing in teen clothing thing, Oh how the people hear got made :P The fun hehe. None the less its nice to be back wish i could get my old accounts posts back but fat admin said I had to choice the account with all the hate towards it or this one :P
Anyways back to topic :P I am curious did a major of confussion cased by transistion also leave you so confussed with your seuality, that at times you prefered to try become completely unattracted to anyone? I did at a point.
Certainly. I've been going through that phase for the last few months, actually, and it's just very recently that I've rediscovered my (unfortunate) attraction to females. I wanted to like men, and I really tried, but it can't work with my current anatomy, and I'm not sure if it would get better with SRS.
And yeah, I'm not sure if I remember that particular thread... but I definitely remember an uproar like you describe. It's true that many trans women past their 30s or 40s try to wear more teenager-oriented clothing... and while I commend their trying to reclaim their youth, it usually looks kinda bad, and it just reinforces stereotypes of trans people. I really don't want to see miniskirts on non-passing trans people who are over 30 or 40 (I've seen one over 50 wear one). It's just... yeah, no.
Anyway, this has been off-topic. We should probably take this discussion to PM if we want to continue this particular stream of thought.
I think the point is that miniskirts have a best-before date on anyone, cis or trans, male or female or otherwise :).
My fault for the los of topic so let me try redeem the topic with an experience I had in terms of sexuality.
Right most of us not all but most of us had to go through male puberty, and obviously with that came the incontolable sex drive and followed by the the thoughts of lust. Now even after puberty T driven brains are still constantly bombarded with lust thoughts which will eventually lead to thoughts of love.
Now to get onto how the change of T to E effected me. Of course your all welcome to try agree/disagree on this if you want to!
When I lost my sex drive yes literally lost it, I cant remember the last time I actually wanted sex or any sexual actions, I realised my attraction to the others didnt leave me(so I must have some what of a sex drive left then), I however noticed it wasnt the same when I ran on T my want for a partner wasnt trully just for the comfort of another person on T, Yet now it some what is more just so I have to be lonely and so I can live with somone who can trully get me(If such a person exists).
Now from my horribly useless story I bring fourth the question how many of you if any of you had a change in just what kind of attractions your sexual attractions are?
Quote from: Padma on January 05, 2013, 07:04:16 AM
I think the point is that miniskirts have a best-before date on anyone, cis or trans, male or female or otherwise :).
Haha this is for a year old topic Padma please try keep to the topic of sexuality only :P
You guys started it this time ;D.
Quote from: Padma on January 05, 2013, 07:25:09 AM
You guys started it this time ;D.
Tch, caught red-handed...
I will note that I have definitely seen a few women who could wear a mini-skirt in their 30s or 40s. Some people just don't know how to get old.
It tickles me who you think is "old" ;D - but back to the topic of sexualty, eh?
Quote from: Kelly J. P. on January 05, 2013, 06:06:28 AM
How did you decide on your sexuality?
I didn't.
Most of my teenage years I struggled with it, but now I'm perfectly content and I know exactly what I like.
I identify as pansexual. I have always known that I could be attracted to anyone. But, where I grew up you did not step outside of societal norms meaning that homosexuality was not accepted at all. So, I just hid that part of me and only dated women. Now that I am free of all of that, I am able to be me. I also have no issues with intimacy. I am mainly looking for someone to love me for me. Someone who wants to hold me and love me.
I wonder if our need for relationships is an emotional need while sexual interactions are essentially physical?
I wonder how much our physical preferences are driven by experiences, though not necessarily in a direct sort of way?
I wonder if our emotional preferences are motivated by our need to deal with emotional issues?
Quote from: Kelly J. P. on January 05, 2013, 06:06:28 AM
As for myself, I have a personal interest in the results of those questions. I've said here and there that I'm unsure about my sexuality - an alien idea to me. I find it so strange that I can be unsure about who I'm attracted to, who I would like to be in a relationship with, and/as opposed to who I would like to go to bed with!
...
That didn't matter, of course, until I began transition at seventeen. My family took it comparatively well, as I've only rarely heard of Christian families being in favour of transition. I expected my sexuality to change with hormones, and to an extent it did... I went from liking women to having no clue.
I proceeded to have a couple relationships, and a fling. All of them were anatomically male, though one was with another transitioning MtF, so the anatomy did have some variance. I found that my sexuality wasn't really satisfied with any of them - sex seemed gross, unclean, and I didn't really enjoy myself. A part of why it went poorly was probably because I was (and still am) very unsatisfied with my own body, so some dysphoria remained. Another issue was that I wasn't sure about how to perform - I quickly found out that anal and oral were definitely things I didn't like. What, then, remained was the use of hands. I felt that this level of intimacy was inadequate, though, and it didn't do much for me.
I've been going through the same thing and I'm pre-transition. I was on hormones for about 6 months, but that was over 5 years ago so I doubt it would have affected things. I've had the same problem. Only attracted to one sex, which happens to be the opposite of my birth sex, but not only never enjoying it, but finding it gross.
My therapist also mentioned that it's likely my own dysphoria causing the disconnect and that I need to deal with that first and the orientation may just kind of fall into place once I do. Crossing my fingers on that one. She says it's because it's an intimate interaction and it's hard to be intimate with someone when they're not seeing you as yourself (and you know that).
Quote from: Padma on January 05, 2013, 06:35:17 AM
I now consider myself to be polysexual and asexual. By this I mean that I'm attracted to people before I know what their gender is - but I don't want to have sex (even when I'm sexually attracted); I just want romance, intimacy, sensuality, affection.
I've only very recently figured out that I've never been comfortable with sex itself (I was abused by both parents as a child, and that definitely plays a part in this) though I like everything else that goes with it. I'd be very happy with a similarly asexual lover of whatever persuasion or gender.
Both my children are expressing an identification with asexuality that I have to respect, but am still struggling to discuss with them in a way that I can come to understand it. Unless my ex was abusing them after the divorce I have no reason to think this stems directly from abuse. In my FTM son's case I do have to wonder whether some of it is related to his trans identity. So far the younger one, though, is not expressing anything like the gender variance that was present in her brother from a very young age, so I have to think some of this fits with what you are describing...
I personally found it more than annoying that my own physical responses would be interpreted as sexual desire by my partner throughout our relationship. We were together for at least 18 years with a sexual component to it, but how I handled that in my head was probably fairly unique, and involved a lot of what I've described as mental gymnastics to preserve my own sense of femme identity.
Before we met, I did consider and discussed openly with my parents the idea of converting to Catholicism with the aim of entering a celibate lifestyle. I think the fact that I wouldn't have been accepted into a nunnery may have been the main reason I ditched that plan. My mom still jokes about it with me.
I don't think there's one "right" way for coping with all the issues that can affect us when our mind is expecting to see a body that the mirror does not reflect back at us (unless we have a very fertile gift for altering our own perceptions at will). Certainly, many of the stories I've heard from transwomen over the years have something in common with Kelly's description. I know I wasn't totally accepted by all the girls I grew up with, but I was lucky to usually find a core group, usually those involved in music and drama, who were more than willing to hang out with me. It might have had something to do with my willingness to help them alter their dresses, hem things and the fact that most of them assumed I was gay and so were more charmed than threatened by my presence? It did mean there was not a lot that went on between us that was physical or intimate in a sexual way. The only real exception to that was my ex, and our relationship was unique in a lot of ways.
Without going into too much graphic detail, my experience with men was also limited. With the first I was not explicit about my female identity. He was an NCO who out ranked me by at least one grade level, and it was basically a one-night stand, but a long one, that took place in my single-occupancy barracks room. I did have a cute pink sheet set and a quilt my grandmother had made for me... he might have gotten some clues from that, but if he did he didn't say much about it. He was quite an attentive and considerate lover, though, with all the energy of someone athletic and in his mid 20s, and he didn't pressure me to do anything I didn't want to do. I enjoyed giving oral sex. Had no interest great interest in receiving it, but if he did offer it I probably reworked it in my mind to avoid thinking about having a penis. Also enjoyed receiving anal penetration from him immensely, but I was fortunate in that he knew what he was doing, and was not interested in causing me pain or humiliation as part of it. It was one of the things I missed after starting the relationship with my ex, but fascination with her anatomy tended to make up for that a lot, especially in the early years. Concentrating on finding her pleasure and unveiling her orgasmic response was something that took up much of the time and energy in our first months together, and my devotion to that had the added benefit of making dysphoria and concentration on my genitalia an issue I could avoid for a long time, and when she did choose to concentrate on that, I could often find ways to mentally transform the experience to make it work within my own sense of identity... it also had a taste of fantasy submission and coercion to it, that I found appealing and identity confirming in ways that were a combination of forbidden pleasure and passive surrender to her aggressive side. More than that and this is going to start reading like porno.
I think I'll stop here for now. As someone said, feel free to ask specific questions, here or maybe on my Tumblr account, where I recently enabled the anon asks and am tempted to start describing things in more graphic terms for anyone interested.
Quote from: spacial on January 05, 2013, 01:04:47 PM
I wonder if our need for relationships is an emotional need while sexual interactions are essentially physical?
I'm not so sure there are hard lines between emotional and physical, or emotional and sexual interactions. A relationship can be a lot more intimate than what I've read of some sex acts. But for me, all my sexual experiences have tended to take place over time, with people I already knew in other ways. I can't think of, aside from solo fantasies, anything sexual that did not have an emotional component to it, at least for me.
The other two questions in this post strike me as a bit too general to answer well. I'm sure that some of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because they spark old and happier memories, if that's what you mean by "experience." Avoiding boredom, and just wanting to explore new things probably is a partial explanation about how some of them are indirect.
There's a school of couple's therapy called "imago relationship therapy" that is founded largely on the premise that we select our partners to address emotional hurt, damage and issues that often arise from our childhood experiences, and that we create a distorted image of our partners, often as a way of making them fit how we choose to work through those early traumas through our relationships.
I can definitely sympathize with that view, and I really wish my ex had not decided to abandon the relationship at the time when we were just beginning to explore that. That she did so probably said something that she has yet to fully deal with, about where she was coming from, and why she chose someone like me, when just about anyone else would have assumed I was gay and avoided the relationship before it ever got started. A lot of her issues had to do with how she saw my identity "forcing her" to identify as lesbian, and otherwise feeling pressure to acknowledge things about me that were not necessarily on the top of her own list of priorities. She had a lot of issues she was resistant to exploring in herself, and after trying to draw those out from her for many years, a lot of what I did that added to conflict for her centered on me deciding if she wasn't going to come out and ask for what she wanted, maybe it was finally my turn to be more specific about things I was looking for.
Just for the record: I don't make a causal connexion between abuse and asexuality - I just know that in my own case, it's a contributory factor to me being uncomfortable with sex. I know plenty of people now who identify as asexual, and it feels obvious to me (about me) that I've been conditioned to assume everyone wants sex, including me. As far as I'm concerned at the moment, it's totally optional, but as a culture we're conditioned to think there's something "wrong" with someone who isn't interested in sex, seeing it as just as extreme as someone with sexual compulsion issues. But like with gender and sexual orientation, I believe there's a field of probability, and people vary a great deal in how much they're into or not into sex.
Until recently, I felt I was obliged to want it in order to get love (this is my abuse legacy). More recently, I'd decided I was obliged not to be sexual, because every time I was, it made me and whoever else was involved miserable. But neither of these are actual choices. So I decided to choose to let it go for the moment, at least until after I've properly transitioned and have the right body. And in the space created by me giving myself permission to choose that, my sense of being asexual has emerged.
Yes, sometimes asexuality may stem from bad experiences or fear in general. But there's no reason to assume it isn't just how some people are, and perfectly healthy. And I have no problem with anyone else's level of sexual desire or activity or libido. I just don't want to be pathologised for where mine is.
Quote from: Elspeth on January 05, 2013, 02:21:37 PM
I'm not so sure there are hard lines between emotional and physical, or emotional and sexual interactions. A relationship can be a lot more intimate than what I've read of some sex acts. But for me, all my sexual experiences have tended to take place over time, with people I already knew in other ways. I can't think of, aside from solo fantasies, anything sexual that did not have an emotional component to it, at least for me.
The other two questions in this post strike me as a bit too general to answer well. I'm sure that some of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because they spark old and happier memories, if that's what you mean by "experience." Avoiding boredom, and just wanting to explore new things probably is a partial explanation about how some of them are indirect.
There's a school of couple's therapy called "imago relationship therapy" that is founded largely on the premise that we select our partners to address emotional hurt, damage and issues that often arise from our childhood experiences, and that we create a distorted image of our partners, often as a way of making them fit how we choose to work through those early traumas through our relationships.
I can definitely sympathize with that view, and I really wish my ex had not decided to abandon the relationship at the time when we were just beginning to explore that. That she did so probably said something that she has yet to fully deal with, about where she was coming from, and why she chose someone like me, when just about anyone else would have assumed I was gay and avoided the relationship before it ever got started. A lot of her issues had to do with how she saw my identity "forcing her" to identify as lesbian, and otherwise feeling pressure to acknowledge things about me that were not necessarily on the top of her own list of priorities. She had a lot of issues she was resistant to exploring in herself, and after trying to draw those out from her for many years, a lot of what I did that added to conflict for her centered on me deciding if she wasn't going to come out and ask for what she wanted, maybe it was finally my turn to be more specific about things I was looking for.
Thank you Elspeth and Padma.
I understand the reactive component, but I'm thinking more of the inate. I apologise for not making that clearer.
Personally, I dislike the reactive notion because, it's my experience, personal and with others, that where experience influences us to that extent, it is generally a neurosis. That, as you know is a unhealthy state.
I read a theory of personailty, in the mid 70s, by Eysenck where he suggested that personality, tastes, attractions and so on are essentially genetic.
I've watched a number of mostly nieces, but one nephew, growing from babies to adults. Variety of parents, environments, social back grounds and apart from one severe neurotic, all are esentially, as adults, the persoanlities they were as babies and young children. Modified by maturity, experiences and so on.
I accept that these are unverified observations and will sadly have to remain such. But they have convince me.
Another not uncommon example, is where a girl has relationships and eventually marries a stronger and/or older man. This is often associated with her need for a father figure. But it could equally be her need to emotionally satisfy that aspect of her personality encourages her to seek out these type of adult relationships.
If our personalities and therefore, emotions are genetically pre-determined they the fulfillment we seek from relationships. Regardless of experiences.
Apologies, I've just realised I've turned part of my earlier query on its head. But the point I think remains identical.
Quote from: spacial on January 05, 2013, 03:24:03 PM
Thank you Elspeth and Padma.
I understand the reactive component, but I'm thinking more of the inate. I apologise for not making that clearer.
Personally, I dislike the reactive notion because, it's my experience, personal and with others, that where experience influences us to that extent, it is generally a neurosis. That, as you know is a unhealthy state.
I read a theory of personailty, in the mid 70s, by Eysenck where he suggested that personality, tastes, attractions and so on are essentially genetic.
I've watched a number of mostly nieces, but one nephew, growing from babies to adults. Variety of parents, environments, social back grounds and apart from one severe neurotic, all are esentially, as adults, the persoanlities they were as babies and young children. Modified by maturity, experiences and so on.
I accept that these are unverified observations and will sadly have to remain such. But they have convince me.
Another not uncommon example, is where a girl has relationships and eventually marries a stronger and/or older man. This is often associated with her need for a father figure. But it could equally be her need to emotionally satisfy that aspect of her personality encourages her to seek out these type of adult relationships.
If our personalities and therefore, emotions are genetically pre-determined they the fulfillment we seek from relationships. Regardless of experiences.
Apologies, I've just realised I've turned part of my earlier query on its head. But the point I think remains identical.
We cant trully put all faith in gentics, I mean as you scratched the whole father complex and mother complex issue which occurs in people who didnt have that figure in their lives when they were growing into adults..
Of course we cant say all people will develope one, seeming I never had a father and didnt develope one.
But I mean I have a few friends who date motherly or fatherly figure people because they have the mother/father complexs.
I do rate genetics = 80% of attractions the rest is from exprience or trauma.
Quote from: spacial on January 05, 2013, 03:24:03 PM
Another not uncommon example, is where a girl has relationships and eventually marries a stronger and/or older man. This is often associated with her need for a father figure. But it could equally be her need to emotionally satisfy that aspect of her personality encourages her to seek out these type of adult relationships.
I've been endlessly interested in psych theories, for a long time, but I finally had to give them up for Lent. ;)
Snarklessly, my two main dating relationships with women were with (a) the smartest or at least one of the top 5 smartest girls in my high school class, who eventually became a psychiatrist, she eventually broke up with me after giving me a book for my birthday that contained an inscription more or less declaring that she thought I was crazy (but in a nice way?) and (b), my now ex, who was an undergrad psych major, but whose summer intership at Bellevue in NYC pretty much ruled out psychiatry as a specialty when she went to med school (we met when she was taking a year off after college, because she had decided to go pre-med late in her college years... something about required courses and MCAT requirements?)
Anyway, to get back to the point of this and your comment I've quoted, is it possible that these relationships happen more because the men are assertive and seek them out, rather than that the girls were actively seeking a father figure? I ask mainly because of something I just posting under what I'm thinking of at the moment...
Part of my question here may have to do with my own relationship with my father. It was not a clearly abusive one, but he did spend a lot of energy trying to turn me into a guy in my early teens, and that made it very hard for me to accept his hugs and claims that he loved me, when he was having such a hard time seeing me on some level. Could have also been that there was that physical aspect to the relationship, and I had a lot of mixed feelings about it, and about being totally open about how I actually felt at the time... this being a time when I was being coerced into boys locker rooms when I felt most definitely like I didn't belong in them, and was a target of harassment that contained no small overtones of sexuality to them.
I've been reworking my old OKCupid account (http://www.okcupid.com/profile/ebbixx), as it's getting harder and harder to deny after 10 years apart that my ex probably doesn't want me back, even though she hasn't found the dream mate she told me she was looking for after demanding a divorce. As was the case back when that account was last active, most of the IMs that come to me are coming from "straight" daddy types, even at my rather mature age.
Something about me just seems to send out this vibe, I guess, that, even when we don't have much in common, I might be interested in them. Usually, with those who can write at all clearly, there's also a hint that they are looking for a submissive partner in some sense, and I'm fairly sure that's a message I wind up sending even without saying anything specific in that area. I do find it a little strange, but then again, in our culture men do tend to expect they are going to need to make the first move, and for all I know, these notes are something they send to anyone they are the least bit attracted to based on pics.
I know how to make my own pics as presentable as possible, without actually photoshopping Nicole Kidman over my own face. Not likely to be comfortable with that face until I manage to go through the first 12 months or more of HRT, and maybe not ever, which could be part of the reason I get so puzzled by their interest. My Own Worst Enemy and all that?
Quote from: LilDevilOfPrada on January 05, 2013, 03:41:05 PM
We cant trully put all faith in gentics, I mean as you scratched the whole father complex and mother complex issue which occurs in people who didnt have that figure in their lives when they were growing into adults..
Of course we cant say all people will develope one, seeming I never had a father and didnt develope one.
But I mean I have a few friends who date motherly or fatherly figure people because they have the mother/father complexs.
I do rate genetics = 80% of attractions the rest is from exprience or trauma.
That's a good point. But even at the highest levels of research and study, I doubt anyone can be absolutely certain. The best any of us can do is build models to work with and stick with those until they are hopelessly flawed or a better one comes along.
Taking genetics as the principal determining factor in behaviour allows me to take others as they are and deal accordingly. On this basis, we each behave acording to the enviromental stimulous and our genetic programming. The only other varients are the rare examples of psychopathy, psychosis and neurosis.
The other extreme is to see behaviour as a function of our experience. This leads to the psuedo freudian notions which so annoyed me in the 60s, such as, Homos being stcuk in the anal phase of development, seeking out male attention to achieve the stimulation they receive from learning to control their bowels.
I do understand your combined theory though. Not sure if I can feel comfortable with it at this time.
Quote from: Elspeth on January 05, 2013, 03:53:13 PM
is it possible that these relationships happen more because the men are assertive and seek them out, rather than that the girls were actively seeking a father figure?
I think that's exactly what it is. Our parents and siblings behave according to their genetic determination as we do. But its not a collection of separate genetic models, its a groups of interacting models.
The same will apply when someone exists within a group with which they have no genetic relationship. I live in such a group now, my wife naturally has close genetic relationships with her family but my relationship is one of behavioural and emotional compatability with one within that group.
If we had had children, they would have been a combination of our individual and very separate genetic makeups. So their interactions with us would have been as geneticly determined as their individual attitudes. Therefore our individual programming is as much a part of theirs as their own.
Familial genetic interaction, if you will
I'm sorry if you don't like psychiatry. I am really hoping to concentrate upon behaviour rather than psychiatry.
Quote from: spacial on January 05, 2013, 05:59:28 PMI'm sorry if you don't like psychiatry. I am really hoping to concentrate upon behaviour rather than psychiatry.
I don't dislike it. I read a lot of it and gained insights from it. But I've also read enough to realize how relatively primitive it is in its present state of development. Possibly comparable to the state of internal medicine before germ theory was widely accepted, meaning that treatment often offered greater risks than avoidance did.
There have been huge shifts in thinking and theories even in the last few years, and immense revisions over the last few decades, especially whenever sex and gender enter the picture. I'll be much happier once the science is actually more science than glorified prejudice and data mining to prove one's preconceived notions, which is what it was for most of the 20th century, in those rare instances when it was following scientific method at all.
It's not there yet, but it is improving as people challenge more and more of the ingrained garbage that's a legacy of some of Freud's early cowardice in facing the realities of intimate abuse, and other things that once were treated as and assumed to be fantasies, rather than getting serious attention and study as demonstrable facts.
It's a huge challenge to turn it into science, when the subject matter bears on so many things we can barely manage to talk about, and often wind up discussing at levels of abstraction that may be practically useless to those affected and seeking treatment or coping strategies.
Mine has definitely shifted over the years, condensed I would say between 12 and 15 or so I had romantic feelings towards females, although physically more jealousy than lust. No romantic attraction towards males but some physically. Fast forward and I have no romantic attraction towards either gender anymore, I just don't, I'm not entirely sure what to put this down to, but if I had to guess I had some lengthy spells of depression where romantic and physical attraction left me. I'm sort of coming out of it now and my physical attraction towards men is stronger than ever, while for females it's almost non existent really.
I'm not really sure whether to identify as gay or bi as a result now, my only sexual experience has been with men and I don't see myself doing anything with a female in the foreseeable future, if at all. As a result of all this some people now know me as gay, others as bi and some even still think I'm straight, well maybe I shouldn't be fretting over labels too much.
By the way reading some of the comments on this thread has been fascinating, even if some of it (well a lot really) went over my head, I wish I could have a stab at analyzing myself with that level of knowledge at my disposal. Better get reading I guess :)
I was asexual, but now I am wondering if I am now at least romantic asexual. I definitely like the touching now. OTOH, I am still dysphoric.
--Jay
I thought I was gay from my sexual awakening and on through my 30's. In my extremely finite 12 year old wisdom, I thought ALL gay guys wanted to be girls, so I must be gay. Transition never occurred to me as something even remotely possible until just a few years ago.
Anyhoo, I spent my life as a typical closet queen. Skirt ->-bleeped-<- in public and pipe smoker in private. I finally came out to my second wife, which led directly to my second divorce. I moved to the SF Bay a year later to live my life as an openly gay man. That's when things started to really unravel, but long story short, I'm now fully transitioned as of this year, and have been very happily strictly dickly since 2007.
I would prefer s another MTF person. However, it has been several years that thoughts of sex rarely enter a relationship. If sex comes along fine. Friendship and respect are far more important. I do enjoy a female who assits in my dressing and makeup. Going out and about with gender woen is always good.