When people tell me guys don't do this or that, or don't be a girl stop acting like a girl, etc etc... I feel like they're saying you're not man enough, and that they're trying to tell me how to be a guy, aka machismo.
Okay first off I believe gender expression is fluid, meaning you don't have to be super masculine to identity as male nor super feminine to identify as female. You can be a super feminine guy, and still be seen as a guy. In my eyes. Idk.
I take offense in this, especially when people try to tell me what to do or how to act. Because its completely my fault that I was raised in a female role most my life and forced into femininity, and its my fault I'm trans and no one has retaught me to fall out of those habits and into the male role in society? Don't blame me, its just who I was raised as...
I honestly don't care if I do girly things or act girly sometimes, because I know who I am and I know that I don't do it 100% of the time. I can be seen as a feminine guy by most of the world, or a masculine girl by people from my past. It's like ill never fit in. But that's how its always been. I don't want to be a super masculine heartless emotionless robot male. I was raised seeing life through the eyes of a female, and that makes me a better man than most. Because I can empathize and understand certain things that other guys can't.
Has anyone else had family members or friends tell you things? Please tell me I'm not alone.
I never know how to respond :/
QuoteWhen people tell me guys don't do this or that, or don't be a girl stop acting like a girl, etc etc... I feel like they're saying you're not man enough, and that they're trying to tell me how to be a guy, aka machismo.
Is this not how most guys learn male socialization?
Perhaps they are trying to give you what you missed.
Quote from: mic on January 08, 2013, 06:24:34 PM
I honestly don't care if I do girly things or act girly sometimes, because I know who I am and I know that I don't do it 100% of the time.
I don't want to be a super masculine heartless emotionless robot male. I was raised seeing life through the eyes of a female, and that makes me a better man than most. Because I can empathize and understand certain things that other guys can't.
Quote from: mic on January 08, 2013, 06:24:34 PM
I never know how to respond :/
I'd respond with what you just typed in your post, seems like a great explanation to me.
Quote from: bojangles on January 08, 2013, 06:50:20 PM
Is this not how most guys learn male socialization?
Perhaps they are trying to give you what you missed.
No, not that I've witnessed.
Maybe name calling, like sissy or other demasculinizing words.
But that's not the right way to raise a child imo. By putting them down.
Spacerace, I'm not one to confront others. Although I think these words, I find it difficult to say them to someone who's putting me down.
I had a bit of problems with it, but mostly I have been kinda lucky.
I have a friend who get it all the time cause she is boyish, and even when she is accepted as a girl she get alot of comment that she isnt girly enough, or dont dress girly enough over and over. it dosent has anything to do with passing cause she pass, but its all gender roles.
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I think every transperson get to feel those genderroles as well as cisgenders.
Remember that many cis genders are pretty ignorant and scared of this. You had the chance to learn alot about gender and genderroles and to express yourself and do things diffrently, comming out and all those steps they never got to take so your a big step in front of them. I learn in the hard way that if you just follow them your just being a slave of sociatys "how you should be" not what you are. this isnt really acceptense for who you are, but for who your are suposed to be. Many guys are scared of crossing there line themself, and dont want to get in problems for standing out, I actually also got a bit the same problem, in a way I want to just express myself and be me but no the other hand I dont want to stand out which I sadly will.
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Now I am not sure what you do who is femenine, But most thing who is seen "girly" or femenine can also aply to guys in one or another matter, like showing feelings, being creative and such. even something who seams super femenine for you can be maculine if you go to somewhere ells.
ex, I used to get comment by a girl on my school cause I wear knee socks and straighten my hair. so she keep saying like "dont be such a girl, boys shouldnt be so femenine bla bla"
I did kinda wonder if I where being a bit too much, but then we had a trip to tokyo and theres some fashion streets and so, and men could wear other clothes than we can. It where alot more normal there for men to wear knee socks, and not considered femenine like alot of boys and men did in the old days,
and there where also other genderole things who where diffrent, ex I saw a guy with hairpinc in his hair. I dont know if its considered very girly in japan but in my country I never seen a guy have that in his hair.
I agree you explained it well here and to use that explanation to others. No matter how you are, someone is likely to give you flack about it, even in your own "community" - Trans or LGBT in general. Some will give trans men who act super macho hell about it. Others will lash out at trans men they don't feel are "masculine" enough or who sometimes wear clothing or accessories, that is considered androgynous or "female". Gender roles are just that, roles forced on us by society. A cis man who enjoys say knitting, or wearing jewelery isn't suddenly not a man because of this, so why should it be that way for trans men? All people of all genders come in all different types, from all kinds of different backgrounds and definitions of "normal".
I agree with everything you said there. When I first started coming out as trans, that was totally how I felt, I felt like were telling me "if you're going to be a guy you can't do this or that." However, now after 9 months on T, I just realized nobody does that to me anymore. and Idk if it's because now that I actually pass 100% of the time people really do see me as a guy and therefore anything I do they accept as something a guy would do since I'm doing it. Or maybe I unintentionally/subconsciously got better at mimicking other men in my society. idk. but it got better.
hey there,
Jus wanted to say that you are def. not alone. I used to live with a bunch of guys who did not know my past and they teased me alot about my feminine behavior. i wasnt overly girl, but it was enough to get teased. It made me made because I generally had no idea what i was doing that was feminine. Anyhow, I think alot of it has to do with your age and how long you have passed as a guy.
The longer you pass, i think the more you are treated male and expected to behave male and therfore you naturally perform according to those expectations. I have my feminine attributes but i think my other male attributes even it all out.
I agree with you natkat, we are who we are and we don't have to be what everyone else wants us to be just to be accepted as guys.
And some things have been.. because I was trying to cover my head from the rain, another is how I cross my arms. It just doesn't seem gender assigned to me.
I agree with that last part fullthrottle, why can they do it but with us its just wrong.
Johnalex, yes but I haven't been so lucky with that. I'm almost two years on t, I pass 100% but obviously those who know will always see you a certain way.
Chuck, thank you for that because I always feel that I'm alone in my experiences. I've passed for a few years now even before t and binding. It wasn't 100% 90% or 80% but I still would pass sometimes without even trying.
I guess when family or old friends see that we are transitioning they expect us to automatically change everything about ourselves and become manly men. (For those of us who grew up in a female role and were forced to be feminine) but we know that's just not the case, maybe more so before we are on t and pass, but not once we look more male.