Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Community Conversation => Transsexual talk => Female to male transsexual talk (FTM) => Topic started by: DriftingCrow on January 16, 2013, 03:20:59 PM

Title: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: DriftingCrow on January 16, 2013, 03:20:59 PM
Back when I was a teenager who couldn't drive yet, it was so much easier to leave the house without a handbag. Now, with my cell phone which seems humongous (I have a droid in the otterbox), my wallet (which seems filled to the max with all these cards I have to carry around), and keys, things don't fit comfortably in my pockets. I can get my wallet easily in and out of my back pocket, but it's pretty hard to squeeze my cell phone in, and my keys just feel weird in my pocket. I'd usually actually rather carry more things with me, but they'd never fit in my pockets.

I think wearing your cell phone in a clip on your belt just looks ridiculous, but I never see men using a murse (unless they're very femme). What do you guys do with the stuff you carry around? If I was going to school, I could easily just put my stuff in my backpack; work, a briefcase; but you don't really carry that stuff for just a trip to the store or a stroll downtown.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Anon on January 16, 2013, 03:26:34 PM
It's not a purse...it's a satchel.

But seriously, I would never get one. All the guys I see who have one are either awkwardly geeky, fem hipsters, or from the middle east. I guess the only other options are backpacks, messenger bags, clothing/jackets with lots of pockets, or just carrying around a plastic shopping bag.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Joe. on January 16, 2013, 03:36:26 PM
I usually wear a jacket I know has enough pockets and my jeans. It leaves me with 4 pockets: 1 for my phone, 1 for my wallet, 1 for my ipod and 1 for my keys. That's usually enough for me as that's all I generally carry around. If I know I'm not going to be wearing a jacket with pockets I just chuck on a backpack and fill it with useless stuff so it looks a bit full and then just put everything in there.

Joey
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: AdamMLP on January 16, 2013, 03:37:32 PM
Jackets, and cut the keys down to the necessary (honestly, I have no idea what my mother needs all her keys for, there's so much on there it wouldn't even fit in a large coat pocket, whereas I have a bike key, front door key, back door key, memory stick and nothing else). If you don't carry cash - I know plenty of people only use card - then there are phone cases that double as card holders/wallets. They might have space for notes/bills as well but I've never seen one that close up to know.

I'd just say, men often carry wallets in their back pockets but they're much easier to pickpocket from.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Tossu-sama on January 16, 2013, 03:39:28 PM
If I need more than pockets, I use a backbag. Or a messenger bag. But usually my pockets are enough since I just need my keys, phone, cigarette stuff and wallet if I go out. :P
Sometimes my pockets are filled to the max, though and it makes me look like I have huge thigh muscles...
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: DriftingCrow on January 16, 2013, 03:50:23 PM
Quote from: Alex000000 on January 16, 2013, 03:37:32 PM
Jackets, and cut the keys down to the necessary (honestly, I have no idea what my mother needs all her keys for, there's so much on there it wouldn't even fit in a large coat pocket, whereas I have a bike key, front door key, back door key, memory stick and nothing else). If you don't carry cash - I know plenty of people only use card - then there are phone cases that double as card holders/wallets. They might have space for notes/bills as well but I've never seen one that close up to know.

I'd just say, men often carry wallets in their back pockets but they're much easier to pickpocket from.

If I am in the city, I'll put my wallet in my front pocket or in a bag to prevent it from from being stolen or from falling out on the T. My keys would be a lot smaller (I only have my car, house, and work keys), except I have all these reward cards on them (that I actually use), same with the wallet (I use cash and cards, I also have a lot of other needed cards, like my rail pass).

Seems like jackets are the most popular option thus far among the guys here.

Kind of random, but bag related... the Saddleback briefcases look really nice (there's even a place to stick an umbrella), they're quite popular among the guys in the Financial District up here in Boston. I think I am going to save up for one and get myself a graduation present next year.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: DriftingCrow on January 16, 2013, 03:51:11 PM
Quote from: Tossu-sama on January 16, 2013, 03:39:28 PM
Or a messenger bag.

I think this would be my main choice during the summer when I don't want to be wearing a jacket.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: CursedFireDean on January 16, 2013, 03:51:27 PM
I usually stick with jackets when cold enough and cargo pants/shorts
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Felix on January 16, 2013, 03:57:13 PM
I carry my backpack everywhere I go. I'd be pretty uncomfortable without water and a book and bus maps and an inhaler and a spare shirt, even if I'm just walking a few blocks to the store.

My roommate carries a messenger bag. I actually see a lot of guys around town carrying bags smaller than that, ones that I guess you could call purses, and they don't look weird imo.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Sarah Louise on January 16, 2013, 04:14:37 PM
In my purse is my wallet, keys, kleenex, hair brush, makeup, extra pair of earrings, cell phone and most importantly diabetes supplies.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Adam (birkin) on January 16, 2013, 04:34:59 PM
I see quite a few guys with messenger bags that don't look awkward or feminine. The trick is to make sure it's fairly wide. If it's thin and more square shaped (as opposed to rectangular) then it looks more like a "murse."
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Devin87 on January 16, 2013, 06:32:59 PM
Even in my "feminine" stage (which really wasn't all that feminine) I've never carried a purse.  I used to have a few when I was in middle school, but the only time I ever used them was for sneaking snacks into the movie theater.  I don't even have a wallet (though I should).  I just throw whatever I need into my pockets.  Usually I've just got my license and debit card, maybe some cash and maybe my cell phone (I'm not really attached to my cell phone-- it's currently dead in the pocket of my work jacket from yesterday-- I never even charged it today).

I love my summer job when I get to wear cargo shorts to work every day.  I make those pockets work for me.  I've got a pen and pencil in one front pocket, my daily paperwork folded up nicely in the other front pocket, a pad or two of sticky notes and some training sheets in one cargo pocket, and a water bottle in my other cargo pocket.  Cell phone stays in my backpack which I stick in a shed or under a control panel or somewhere for the day and I have my walkie-talkie clipped to the back of my belt with my cool FBI earpiece running up my undershirt to my ear and my orange lockout padlock locked to a front belt loop with my ring of keys clipped on.  I always feel like I'm suiting up for war as I assemble my arsenal of supplies each morning.   :icon_2gun:  Can't wait for the end of April!
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Simon on January 16, 2013, 06:55:33 PM
When I lived in the city I carried a backpack everywhere. When you use public transportation it's kinda a must, imo. I always had a bottle of water, laptop, hoodie, gum, etc crammed into it.

Now that I live in the country I just carry my wallet in one pocket and keys in the other. Anything else can stay in the car. If I need it bad enough I can walk back to the car and get it.

One thing about messenger bags. I tried one once and the strap made me really self conscious about my chest.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Felix on January 16, 2013, 07:06:38 PM
Quote from: Simon on January 16, 2013, 06:55:33 PM
One thing about messenger bags. I tried one once and the strap made me really self conscious about my chest.
I have the same problem when I use them.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: DriftingCrow on January 16, 2013, 07:30:06 PM
Quote from: Simon on January 16, 2013, 06:55:33 PM
One thing about messenger bags. I tried one once and the strap made me really self conscious about my chest.

I hate that about messenger bags too, but I do tend to perfer bags that stay on one side of the body instead of the back. In the summer, backpacks make my back sweat and it soaks through my shirt (so attractive), and most backpacks are huge on me (I have a small upper body, so my current backpack goes from the bottom of my neck to my butt, it just feels and looks too big), I'd like to find a smaller backpack.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: anibioman on January 16, 2013, 07:31:27 PM
i use pockets front left iphone 4 in otterbox commuter right pens, Chapstick and headphones back right wallet. keys on a carabiniere clipped to my belt loop.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: DriftingCrow on January 16, 2013, 07:37:28 PM
Quote from: anibioman on January 16, 2013, 07:31:27 PM
keys on a carabiniere clipped to my belt loop.

Ah, that's a good idea, I've seen guys around here do that too.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Nygeel on January 16, 2013, 07:42:19 PM
I put my phone and wallet in my front pockets and have a carabiner for my keys that I clip onto a belt or belt loop. You could use a laptop bag, or messenger bag depending on what you wear. A backpack would be another idea.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: mangoslayer on January 16, 2013, 07:49:54 PM
I keep my phone, keys, ipod, wallet, and a pack of gum in my pockets. My wallet goes in my back pocket, keys and phone in the right, and ipod and gum in the left. It's never a problem unless i have change in my pockets and i have to dig around, in that case my keys decide to become a small wad of knives. If you wear mens jeans, i can't see why it would be a problem. My phone is basically a brick and fits in my pockets just fine. Womens jeans are another story though. I think the most you could carry in the pockets of womens jeans is a few pennies and half a stick of gum.
If you can't find a way to get everything to fit in your pockets, you could get one of those little bag things. I dont know what theyre called so heres a picture. https://images.danscomp.com/images/products/mid_730165_Black.gif
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: DriftingCrow on January 16, 2013, 07:58:48 PM
Quote from: mangoslayer on January 16, 2013, 07:49:54 PM
I keep my phone, keys, ipod, wallet, and a pack of gum in my pockets. My wallet goes in my back pocket, keys and phone in the right, and ipod and gum in the left. It's never a problem unless i have change in my pockets and i have to dig around, in that case my keys decide to become a small wad of knives. If you wear mens jeans, i can't see why it would be a problem. My phone is basically a brick and fits in my pockets just fine. Womens jeans are another story though. I think the most you could carry in the pockets of womens jeans is a few pennies and half a stick of gum.
If you can't find a way to get everything to fit in your pockets, you could get one of those little bag things. I dont know what theyre called so heres a picture. https://images.danscomp.com/images/products/mid_730165_Black.gif

I've been wearing jeans or khakis from the boy's department, the pockets in the front at least, seem small. I've seen those bags around, I've always just called them athletic bags.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Alex308 on January 17, 2013, 09:38:19 AM
I just stick everything in my jean pockets, wallet in my back right, keys, chapstick and headphones in my front left and iPhone and  sometimes a pen in my front right. If I have any papers or to-do lists I stick them in my back left.
Depending on what the bag looked like you could get away with carrying one around but personally I just would never want to deal with having to carry something around all the time.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: aleon515 on January 17, 2013, 11:02:50 AM
Someone mentioned the inhaler-- yikes. It's also got a diffuser on it to make it extra clunky. Don't have worry about it til juniper season. Maybe will need a bag of some type.

--Jay
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Jared on January 17, 2013, 11:32:55 AM
When my pockets aren't enough I use one of these:
http://www.google.hu/imgres?imgurl=http://www.goker.hu/images/item_image/original/9153.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.goker.hu/item/springer-ovtaska-23-x-15-x-8-cm-2-liter&h=294&w=339&sz=15&tbnid=Ui-3yPaLtb-n0M:&tbnh=108&tbnw=124&prev=/search%3Fq%3Deastpak%2B%25C3%25B6vt%25C3%25A1ska%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=eastpak+%C3%B6vt%C3%A1ska&usg=__RtXzqK6Yikfh28fGEeDqp7eeIAM=&docid=tQGSvqEvJsihWM&hl=hu&sa=X&ei=0TT4UO6uE4vTsgbaiYHYCQ&ved=0CD8Q9QEwBA&dur=482 (http://www.google.hu/imgres?imgurl=http://www.goker.hu/images/item_image/original/9153.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.goker.hu/item/springer-ovtaska-23-x-15-x-8-cm-2-liter&h=294&w=339&sz=15&tbnid=Ui-3yPaLtb-n0M:&tbnh=108&tbnw=124&prev=/search%3Fq%3Deastpak%2B%25C3%25B6vt%25C3%25A1ska%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=eastpak+%C3%B6vt%C3%A1ska&usg=__RtXzqK6Yikfh28fGEeDqp7eeIAM=&docid=tQGSvqEvJsihWM&hl=hu&sa=X&ei=0TT4UO6uE4vTsgbaiYHYCQ&ved=0CD8Q9QEwBA&dur=482)
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: John Smith on January 17, 2013, 11:37:03 AM
I usually haul a backpack around, as i need to carry a few books to and from work. Other than that, jacket pockets will do during the winter. In the summer I may run out of pockets. Planning to get me a messenger bag to use when a backpack would be overkill. Not worried about it seeming girly or whatever, they are very common with guys of all ages here.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: aleon515 on January 17, 2013, 03:24:35 PM
@Jared, I have a waist pack, and waist packs are androgynous, but I don't see a lot of guys wearing them. Though they are clearly marketed to both. You see them in REI in a clearly androgynous area with things like glasses carriers and money clips.

BTW, stopped calling these "fanny" packs when I went to the UK. :)

--Jay
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: AdamMLP on January 17, 2013, 03:27:34 PM
Quote from: aleon515 on January 17, 2013, 03:24:35 PM
@Jared, I have a waist pack, and waist packs are androgynous, but I don't see a lot of guys wearing them. Though they are clearly marketed to both. You see them in REI in a clearly androgynous area with things like glasses carriers and money clips.

BTW, stopped calling these "fanny" packs when I went to the UK. :)

--Jay

Yup they're definitely not "fanny packs" over here... although I'm not too sure whether "bum bag" is the best name for them either.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Jared on January 17, 2013, 04:20:05 PM
Quote from: aleon515 on January 17, 2013, 03:24:35 PM
@Jared, I have a waist pack, and waist packs are androgynous, but I don't see a lot of guys wearing them. Though they are clearly marketed to both. You see them in REI in a clearly androgynous area with things like glasses carriers and money clips.

BTW, stopped calling these "fanny" packs when I went to the UK. :)

--Jay

I don't know what's going on in the USA but where I live many guys are wearing them. Girls too, that's true.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Devin87 on January 17, 2013, 05:06:41 PM
In the US fanny packs are for elderly people and really, REALLY bad losers.  Like not even cool hipster losers, just plain losers.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Jared on January 17, 2013, 05:13:01 PM
I'll keep that in mind if I ever get there  ;D
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Beth Andrea on January 17, 2013, 05:25:22 PM
As a guy, my belt looked like a Batman utility belt:

(to the right, from the buckle (which was aligned with the pants zipper)) :

1. Cell phone pouch (yes, I wore a pouch...it's great until you're fixing your car and roll on your side);
2. LED flashlight (I often work at night)
3. Spare magazine pouch (9mm x 2)
(those 3 items were all clustered on the very side)
4. Small "ditty" bag, rt side kidney area (for wallet, keys, etc; about 3" x 4")
5. "Leatherman" knife in pouch (Lt side kidney area)
6. 9mm compact pistol, double-retention holster

I would wear a lightweight "BDU" style jacket over everything.

No purse for me...just a mini-cassette player with two songs: "Batman" and "Ride of the Valkeries"

(ok, I'm kidding about the tape player....;))
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Beth Andrea on January 17, 2013, 05:26:57 PM
Quote from: Devin87 on January 17, 2013, 05:06:41 PM
In the US fanny packs are for elderly people and really, REALLY bad losers.  Like not even cool hipster losers, just plain losers.

A fanny pack in the US is a subtle way of letting the cops know you have a gun...
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Simon on January 17, 2013, 05:28:22 PM
Quote from: Devin87 on January 17, 2013, 05:06:41 PM
In the US fanny packs are for elderly people and really, REALLY bad losers.  Like not even cool hipster losers, just plain losers.

For losers? That escalated quickly for an accessory.  :laugh:

No, fanny packs aren't in style. I think the only time I see people using them is when I go somewhere that is a tourist location.

I wouldn't be caught dead wearing a fanny pack. I just have a orange and grey North Face backpack that I carry when I need to.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: CursedFireDean on January 17, 2013, 08:26:35 PM
Quote from: Devin87 on January 17, 2013, 05:06:41 PM
In the US fanny packs are for elderly people and really, REALLY bad losers.  Like not even cool hipster losers, just plain losers.
You can't forget all the tourists- usually when I see fanny pack, I think tourist.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Devin87 on January 17, 2013, 08:30:22 PM
Quote from: Simon on January 17, 2013, 05:28:22 PM
For losers? That escalated quickly for an accessory.  :laugh:

No, fanny packs aren't in style. I think the only time I see people using them is when I go somewhere that is a tourist location.

I wouldn't be caught dead wearing a fanny pack. I just have a orange and grey North Face backpack that I carry when I need to.

Got myself a fanny pack, they were havin a sale down at the Gap, spend my nights with a roll of bubble wrap, pop pop hope no one sees me, get freaky, I'm nerdy in the extreme and whiter than sour cream, I was in AV club and glee club and even the chess team, only question I ever thought was hard was do I like Kirk or do I like Picard, spend every weekend at the Renaissance fair, got my name on my underwear.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: DriftingCrow on January 17, 2013, 09:34:52 PM
I've never worn a fanny pack, way too 80s. I think it'd only come in handy jogging though (for me), but I use the FuelBelt which has a tiny little pocket to put in your house or car key and your ID. If I was a tourist someplace, I don't think a fanny pack would do it for me, I'd like to have a bigger bag to keep water in and my camera when not in use.


Quote from: Beth Andrea on January 17, 2013, 05:25:22 PM
As a guy, my belt looked like a Batman utility belt:

(to the right, from the buckle (which was aligned with the pants zipper)) :

1. Cell phone pouch (yes, I wore a pouch...it's great until you're fixing your car and roll on your side);
2. LED flashlight (I often work at night)
3. Spare magazine pouch (9mm x 2)
(those 3 items were all clustered on the very side)
4. Small "ditty" bag, rt side kidney area (for wallet, keys, etc; about 3" x 4")
5. "Leatherman" knife in pouch (Lt side kidney area)
6. 9mm compact pistol, double-retention holster

I would wear a lightweight "BDU" style jacket over everything.

No purse for me...just a mini-cassette player with two songs: "Batman" and "Ride of the Valkeries"

(ok, I'm kidding about the tape player....;))

Beth, you sound like a total badass.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: CursedFireDean on January 17, 2013, 10:05:02 PM
Quote from: Devin87 on January 17, 2013, 08:30:22 PM
Got myself a fanny pack, they were havin a sale down at the Gap, spend my nights with a roll of bubble wrap, pop pop hope no one sees me, get freaky, I'm nerdy in the extreme and whiter than sour cream, I was in AV club and glee club and even the chess team, only question I ever thought was hard was do I like Kirk or do I like Picard, spend every weekend at the Renaissance fair, got my name on my underwear.

You just made my day. I love that song.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: aleon515 on January 17, 2013, 11:09:00 PM
Quote from: Beth Andrea on January 17, 2013, 05:26:57 PM
A fanny pack in the US is a subtle way of letting the cops know you have a gun...

When I presented female, I always had one. No one thought I had a gun. :)
I don't consider them for losers but I guess I am older and don't worry about that sort of image. I just don't like that they are not so male. Maybe if I were traveling.

--Jay
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: lexical on January 17, 2013, 11:28:38 PM
I can't stand having stuff in my pockets... messenger bag all the way. This is my main one:

http://bimg2.mlstatic.com/mochilas-american-eagle-outfitters-messenger-khaki-dvn_MLM-F-2860448106_072012.jpg (http://bimg2.mlstatic.com/mochilas-american-eagle-outfitters-messenger-khaki-dvn_MLM-F-2860448106_072012.jpg)
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: John Smith on January 18, 2013, 11:25:59 AM
That's pretty much the type I want, preferably in charcoal. :)


I wear a fanny pack at work, we all do. There's some stuff we're supposed to have on us at all times, and that's the most practicall way. I also have one for short hikes where I want to bring a bottle of water, something to nibble on, my inhaler and a paperlight jacket.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Incarnadine on January 18, 2013, 12:24:22 PM
Quote from: Devin87 on January 17, 2013, 08:30:22 PM
Got myself a fanny pack, they were havin a sale down at the Gap, spend my nights with a roll of bubble wrap, pop pop hope no one sees me, get freaky, I'm nerdy in the extreme and whiter than sour cream, I was in AV club and glee club and even the chess team, only question I ever thought was hard was do I like Kirk or do I like Picard, spend every weekend at the Renaissance fair, got my name on my underwear.

Dude, you are just too white and nerdy...but that song does communicate the general opinion of society about "fanny packs."  :P

Had a chiropractor fuss at me for putting my wallet in my back pocket.  When you sit, it mis-aligns your spine, she said. 

Guy mode = wallet in front right pocket, house keys on a belt clip, phone and van key (Dodge, so it's a block, not metal key) in front left pocket. 
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Devin87 on January 18, 2013, 01:23:44 PM
Quote from: Incarnadine on January 18, 2013, 12:24:22 PM
Dude, you are just too white and nerdy...

You should see me play "musical Rubik's cube" to that song.   Mix it up, start the song and try to solve it before the song finishes.  Actually, I'm usually able to solve it with like a minute left on the song, so I just rock out for the last minute.  :P
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: PixieBoy on January 18, 2013, 01:29:03 PM
When I was in junior high, I had this big, bright red clunky backpack that was filled to the brim with school stuff. I've never liked purses, as I easily forget where I left them and it generally feels unsafe to use one (not to mention femme as heck). I just jam everything into my pockets, which is why I love my military trousers because they have lots of big, nice pockets. I wear my key on a carbine hook and a chain, like most guys my age do. I am a major dork and put my wallet in my right front pocket because I don't like sitting on something big and clunky (what looks like fat wads of cash is just receipts I haven't thrown away yet for some strange reason). The key hook is really uncomfortable to lie upon if I have to lie down on my side.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: Ribbons on January 22, 2013, 07:50:52 PM
I own a purse and a bag but I don't use them often. I typically don't carry much around besides a wallet and a video game handheld, which fit in jeans just fine.
Title: Re: Murse? Bags? Or just have buldging pockets?
Post by: ford on January 22, 2013, 08:16:30 PM
Etsy has some pretty neat vintage military messenger bags if you like that kind of thing. Totally manly (but admittedly hipster).