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Quote from: girl you look fierce on January 17, 2013, 01:59:49 PM
How do people handle this??? :(
I'm don't feel bad/guilty for being trans anymore than I am of my ethnic race etc. If someone hate me because of what I am (which I find to be VERY few) then it's their problem. I'm not going to stress about maintaining stealth to avoid detection. Then again I -am- a woman. I'm not going to pretend to be anything other than who I am and I'm not ashamed of embarrassed about this. I don't go out of my way to reveal I am trans. I don't wear a sign or tell people, but if they find out, I'm not crushed either. When this has happened, the people treat me the same before and after. Maybe I have very open minded friends? I seem to believe being trans is becoming much less of an issue than it was even a few years ago.
As far as being "a freak, like everybody who knows hates you", that's in -your- head. It's a common thing for many transpeople, the best phrase I've hear to describe it is -internalized transphobia-.
Quote from: girl you look fierce on January 17, 2013, 01:59:49 PM
Do any of you guys struggle with trans guilt? Like feeling like a freak, like everybody who knows hates you, etc.
I live totally stealth in my current state but nothing I can ever do can make me stealth to my family. But I can't really cope with being out to people. Ughhh.
I guess I don't know what the point of this thread is, I just wanna vent. Sorry. Is it just me? How do people handle this??? :(
Well as an observation I have is that we all carry a certain amount of an inferiority complex feeling regardless of passing skills and I believe it sort of goes with the territory. I've been transitioned for a long time and have to deal with some awkward moments like listening to a woman talking about her child birth experience. Yes I've had a bunch of surgery and can blend in well, but standing next to even a mediocre woman there is always the feeling of being less than perfect. But you know, that's society talking not me. How about a woman who cannot have babies at all? How would she react in that situation? A pleasant smile like I would or does she go and cry in the bathroom?
From an early age females are told, grow up, find a man, have a family, raise children, do your maternal duties. But there is so much more to life than just that. That's why families are disappearing. Who wants to get chained to the kitchen changing diapers and be limited to dreaming of a better life while hubby goes off and makes the bacon having fun? Let's face it, these are not caveman days and we are not clubbing animals over the head for food, so either gender if well educated can equally out perform the other.
Rather than get caught up in the what if scenarios, which won't lead anywhere anyways, I live a life that is different and that's okay too. Seek out others who live the same kind of life, and they don't have to be trans. There are a lot of women these days giving up marriage and all that commitment and baggage for a career, exciting life, what have you. Granted it does take money to have a nice roof over your head, and being able to go out and do fun things Try it for a year or two and trust me you will feel a whole lot better.
Don't worry about coming out either. I didn't feel it was necessary to come out and tell everyone up and down the family tree. The were people that mattered and the rest can go pound sand. I mean what value add is there for me to tell some third cousin that I've never even met? Keep the circle small and don't worry about the rest, UNLESS you really feel that by telling them it's going to be a positive experience,
Quote from: girl you look fierce on January 17, 2013, 03:22:10 PM
@zumbagirl
I don't know about getting a job and stuff... I never got one presenting male cause I had severe anxiety problems. They're getting a little better since transitioning but I'm still not sure about getting a job when my legal transition is way behind my social one (outing myself is never an option to me).
Someday I want to but yeah. I am kinda in the classic housewife role you talked about except a mama to 2 kitties and not kids. I don't think it's why I feel inferior to other people... well maybe a little bit, I get jealous of people who are my age and can afford school and have future prospects etc.
I guess, yep, I feel inferior to people because in general my life seems so screwed up and behind everyone else, being trans just ruined everything in so many ways, most of it before I had even come out and it just caused all these emotional issues.
I'm a mama to 4 bouncing Siberian huskies. So much fur, so little time to brush them all :)
Quote from: girl you look fierce on January 17, 2013, 01:59:49 PM
Do any of you guys struggle with trans guilt? Like feeling like a freak, like everybody who knows hates you, etc.
Yes, I have a fair share of trans guilt. I think some of it I've placed on myself but some was also caused by people in my family. My dad died in 2004 and he never accepted me. Told me I was insane and I would never be a man or be respected as a man. The last thing I told him in Hospice was that I loved him. He laughed in my face. I wonder if he were still alive if he would have came around especially now seeing everything I have been through with not only transitioning but with my cancer. I have fought hard to be who I am.
My mother's side of the family is horrible. Every year my mom begs me to come to Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners at her house. I tried for years. Just the last two years I've stopped going. I don't see the point if the only two people who will talk to me is my mom and grandpa. Other people will say hi in passing as a courtesy to my mom but they don't have conversations with me or sit beside me. Makes me feel like being trans is contagious, lol.
I think that is where trans guilt comes from. It's just internalizing what other people think about us. The public is one thing. I think most trans people have gotten crap from society. I know I have but that just stings for a little while. It's the people who really know us and knew us before that make it the hardest when they refuse to see us as who we are and not what we are.
Quote from: Simon on January 17, 2013, 05:13:35 PM
Yes, I have a fair share of trans guilt. I think some of it I've placed on myself but some was also caused by people in my family. My dad died in 2004 and he never accepted me. Told me I was insane and I would never be a man or be respected as a man. The last thing I told him in Hospice was that I loved him. He laughed in my face. I wonder if he were still alive if he would have came around especially now seeing everything I have been through with not only transitioning but with my cancer. I have fought hard to be who I am.
My mother's side of the family is horrible. Every year my mom begs me to come to Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners at her house. I tried for years. Just the last two years I've stopped going. I don't see the point if the only two people who will talk to me is my mom and grandpa. Other people will say hi in passing as a courtesy to my mom but they don't have conversations with me or sit beside me. Makes me feel like being trans is contagious, lol.
I think that is where trans guilt comes from. It's just internalizing what other people think about us. The public is one thing. I think most trans people have gotten crap from society. I know I have but that just stings for a little while. It's the people who really know us and knew us before that make it the hardest when they refuse to see us as who we are and not what we are.
I'm really sorry to hear that about your dad. It's definitely hard to feel good about yourself when your own family won't listen. I'm in kind of a strange place with my mother -- she's trans herself, but is happy living as her birth sex, and whenever I try to bring up the topic of gender, she just gets angry and refuses to listen to me. I feel like she's saying "I'm more trans than you and even *I* don't mind living as a woman, so you have nothing to complain about". And of course, if I press the issue I get the standard "you'll never be a real man", "this will upset your grandparents", "there's no such thing as brain sex", "your life will suck as a ->-bleeped-<-" spiels.
I'm sure I'll get her to come around eventually, once I've finally seen a therapist, but she's the only person in my life I feel I can talk to about anything personal, so it's frustrating that she won't take me seriously. It definitely makes me doubt my own feelings on the matter.
Quote from: Simon on January 17, 2013, 05:13:35 PM
I think that is where trans guilt comes from. It's just internalizing what other people think about us. The public is one thing. I think most trans people have gotten crap from society. I know I have but that just stings for a little while. It's the people who really know us and knew us before that make it the hardest when they refuse to see us as who we are and not what we are.
I completely agree on this one. I recently had to deal with some internalized guilt I had, and I realized a lot of it came from people in my family. For example, my grandpa died 6 years ago, and when I told my grandma I was trans, she said "I haven't felt this awful since grandpa died." And she took his death really, really hard, as they'd been married for almost 50 years...
And it's taken me a while to be OK with correcting my family for that reason. At some point, they managed to convince me that there was something wrong with being trans just because they don't like it. That I was doing something horrible. So I got to thinking to myself "this is a bad and selfish decision I had to make because I had no other option." I don't believe I could live as a woman, but that doesn't make me a bad person, or someone who did something evil in order to survive.
I very much feel this way. I even find it almost impossible to tell anyone I am a woman, so I just let them think what they will and luckily, it mostly seems to be favorable. I am pretty darned out though since I still live in the same tiny town of a little over 400 people as I did for years before I transitioned. It got very, very difficult for me to even leave the house due to anxiety, fear, self hatred, low self esteem, etc. But I got to where I needed to do something as I was about broke by then, so I took a chance and applied for a job when I found out they were firing the girl that worked there. My dad having dated the manager there for years didn't hurt either, but it was her bosses that did the hiring. So I've been working a very public job for two years now and it was very scary at first, but most people just didn't give a damn about me being trans so long as I didn't frighten their kids and they got courteous service. The few that did have issues mostly got over them enough not to be ->-bleeped-<-s to me, especially when they realized just how darned nice I am. I still feel like a freak though, not sure if that will ever go away and it does affect my ability to make friends and I definitely don't date because of the way I feel, even if they know. I was lucky about family though, at least my dad and siblings, they have accepted it fairly well, even my brothers who initially had a hard time with it.
Quote from: girl you look fierce on January 17, 2013, 01:59:49 PM
Do any of you guys struggle with trans guilt? Like feeling like a freak, like everybody who knows hates you, etc.
I struggle w/ this problem and I'm doing everything I can to not let it be inflamed by coming out to out of state family, but it's really hard. I wish so much that I could just not be trans and never have had this stupid body. I am a woman and I can't live any other way, but the fact that people exist who don't understand that makes me completely neurotic. :( I feel almost like I owe them something, like I have to do something or give something to them to make them not hate me for being a crazy person and an embarrassment. What I feel like I owe them most of all is to pretend I'm ok and not transition... but I can't do that, I just can't, I can't live as a boy, I wasn't even able to, and I don't want to at all. And I know I don't deserve that, but I still feel so guilty. I have an inferiority complex too and am a people pleaser and it's so hard to go against that grain.
I had similar feelings a long time ago, before I transitioned. I worried about upsetting family, worried about upsetting friends. Maybe that's part of the reason that I delayed doing anything for so long and joined the navy. Hard to say now, so long after the dust has settled. It all worked out well, but you can't help feeling in the back of your mind maybe I let them down. If I did they never showed it. They haven't mentioned my past for a long time.
Having transitioned so long ago, and having lived stealth where I am now for so long without any contact with other TS people and out of the TS scene, I'm judged for who I am, on my personality, by my actions, free from being seen or known as a transwomen. I'm just me. It's taken a long time to get to this point. If there was any guilt, it's long gone.
When I first came out to my parents I was about 13. Didn't know what was happening to me. The internet wasn't even a dream. So the amount of info was negligible. All I knew was that I was a girl and the body was totally wrong. My folks, bless them, had not a clue what it meant. Except that I was their only son in a Liverpool Irish Roman Catholic family, and I wasn't right to think that way and I must be ill or worse. My Mum only knew one type of pervert and that was paedophiles, so I was one of them. I'm pretty sure she didn't know what a paedophile was, but it was a perversion that she had heard of.
I did give up on them. I did leave home and I did go to the other side of the world; looking back I think it was to hide.
They died before I transitioned. They never met me and I do regret that. I'm such a different person than I was even 6 months ago, I would have been proud to tell them that I was their daughter and that I loved them. I do as well, but it has taken me a very long time to say that.
Yes I felt guilty for not being their son and the 'man' to carry on the family name. I can see what pain that must have caused them, I can see it now but I could never see it in the past.
Accept me! Accept me! But we do? You are our son, and we love you dearly.
I think if I had been Gay they would have coped. Of course homosexuality in that era, was still a criminal offence in the UK. But they could have coped with that, and protected and cherished me.
But that I was a girl was a bridge way too far.
I think I did carry my guilt like the proverbial mill-stone holding me from being me and keeping reminding myself that I was ill.
I regret not going to their respective funerals. At the time it was an easy decision. The wrong one; based on my inability to love and forgive. How can I expect anyone to love and forgive me, if I could not give my unconditional love to them? The guilt stays and if you let it the feelings of failure and inadequacy will rule you.
Acceptance of our mistakes and acceptance of how people treat us tend to go hand in hand.
I totally love being me and I am utterly delighted to be me. I just wish I had the courage to say sorry to them before they died. Sorry for what? Sorry for hurting them. That they hurt me is immaterial. I should have been bigger than that. They thought they had a much loved and wanted son. I can understand their pain.
Quote from: Cindy James on January 18, 2013, 02:40:05 AM
They died before I transitioned. They never met me and I do regret that.
I didn't find acceptance with my father and he also died without accepting or ever meeting the true me.
That is a distinct kind of pain. The "what might have beens" and always wondering if there would have been acceptance and love at some point if they had lived to see their child actually be happy.
I've thought of this and I think would have. They didn't understand me but they loved me.
I think if they met me in my happiness that would understand. And they would accept me.
Damn 'mones crying again
What you both described with loved ones passing away is something I am really worried about. Actually, near terrified. Not so much with my parents, as they're fairly young and unless something tragic happened, they won't pass away any time soon. They will almost certainly accept me first; they're getting close enough now.
But I'm worried about my grandmother passing away without being at peace with my transition. She's known for two years now, so it's nothing new at all, but it doesn't seem she has adjusted in the slightest. I guess I worry she will die feeling like I didn't love her or something. So I'm torn between that and politely correcting her when she calls me "miss", my birth name, and so on and so forth. She is in very good health but you never know, you know?
Quote from: girl you look fierce on January 18, 2013, 11:35:11 AM
I feel a little sick but whatever, at least I am finally letting the house of cards fall, cuz it had to sometime and I already wasted too many years w/ life on standby avoiding it.
Ugh, I just went through this...I'm all too familiar with that sick feeling. I came out to my sister first. I'm total rubbish on the phone but I couldn't stand it anymore...it was time, so I forced myself to call. I told my husband in person. And even though I'm still not 100% certain how they feel about it (initial reactions were surprised but more or less supportive), I feel so much better about having been honest with them.
I too was worried that no one would take me seriously. I also felt guilt for the upset I figure this will cause in my family. To them it probably looks like I'm taking a pretty decent life and just tossing it away.
Sending happy thoughts your way. I hope your father can accept you for who you really are!
I feel much the same way. I feel compelled to remain as I am and just hope I can find ways to deal with how I feel even though everyone who matters around me must already know or guess I have some issues to deal with.
I can see why people just run away and start again somewhere new. The temptation to do that is really strong.
Quote from: Anna on January 19, 2013, 05:18:16 AM
I feel much the same way. I feel compelled to remain as I am and just hope I can find ways to deal with how I feel even though everyone who matters around me must already know or guess I have some issues to deal with.
I can see why people just run away and start again somewhere new. The temptation to do that is really strong.
I can understand. but it doesn't work. We have to accept ourselves., Otherwise we will always be shells.
JMO
CJ
Quote from: Cindy James on January 19, 2013, 06:08:18 AM
I can understand. but it doesn't work. We have to accept ourselves., Otherwise we will always be shells.
JMO
CJ
I agree. Self acceptance is the key to happiness :)
i have those feelings too like why couldn't i just be normal like everyone else. but in the end you are who you are so....yeah. i just be myself and hope that people can care about me and that guys wont freak out. although it does happen.
All of my trans guilt is actually in my childhood. From an early age I told myself the way I was feeling and the way I thought was wrong through social cues from friends, classmates, and strangers. I felt shameful and guilty of the way I felt, and for years suppressed those feelings because I wanted to be the boy and man I thought society wanted me to be. I put everything on myself. No one explicitly told me that the way I was feeling was wrong, and I'm quickly and easily letting go of these emotions in therapy. I don't have to be anything else than what I feel to be. Society does not need to be the controlling factor of my life. Sure, it's going to be hard, but it's the right thing to do because I'm being right to myself.
It also helps, though, that my parents and the friends I've come out to are nothing less than supportive.
All my trans-specific guilt is built around my current partner, because it's highly unlikely that we'll stay together if I transition. So, when I most want to be a man, I start to feel guilty for essentially wanting us to split up.
Quote from: DeeperThanSwords on January 19, 2013, 05:13:02 PM
All my trans-specific guilt is built around my current partner, because it's highly unlikely that we'll stay together if I transition.
Yes, same here. If I wasn't married I think I'd have figured out/transitioned much sooner. My husband says he's supportive, but I have to wonder if that won't change once he starts getting perceived as a gay man, or once he realizes the female body he was initially attracted to is unrecognizable. Add to that his family is highly religious and openly homophobic. For my part, I'll never leave him. But if he decides to leave me that would be understandable...I hate that I feel I have to do this to him. I wish I could suppress this ridiculous urge to appear as male as I feel.
I've shed a lot of tears wishing I had figured out what all my very confusing feelings were before I got married. Because then I wouldn't be in this position where I feel I'm bound to hurt a lot of people.
I always feel terrible around my mother and grandmother. I haven't the heart to tell them I'm not their 'precious little girl'. Im the only biologically female of all my cousins, so they cling to me. Comments like 'And you'll always be my baby girl' and 'Youre my only and favorite granddaughter' hurt so much.
I dont want to hurt them, I dont want want to take their little girl from them. But Im not that girl, and it hurts to try being her. And Im so afraid if I become who I really am, theyll always miss her and not want anything to do with me.
I've never actually put this into words before, and now Im in tears. I just feel so selfish half of the time.
Quote from: ReverseRainbow on January 20, 2013, 03:26:19 PM
I always feel terrible around my mother and grandmother. I haven't the heart to tell them I'm not their 'precious little girl'. Im the only biologically female of all my cousins, so they cling to me. Comments like 'And you'll always be my baby girl' and 'Youre my only and favorite granddaughter' hurt so much.
I dont want to hurt them, I dont want want to take their little girl from them. But Im not that girl, and it hurts to try being her. And Im so afraid if I become who I really am, theyll always miss her and not want anything to do with me.
I've never actually put this into words before, and now Im in tears. I just feel so selfish half of the time.
I know that feeling very well.
*huge hugs*
Quote from: girl you look fierce on January 20, 2013, 06:37:58 AM
...I guess what feels so bad and confusing to me is that before transitioning I was such a shell of a person, I lived the bare minimum in life and pushed everyone away, terrified of their judgment, and even then I somehow still have people to hurt by transitioning as if I owed it to them just as a fact of my existence to try to be male...
I added the bold...because I'm really struggling with that too. Like I should act like a girl because my grandmother is owed a granddaughter, my sister is owed a sister, etc.
That's fantastic that your fiance is so supportive though. Gives me warm fuzzies when I hear things like that, because it seems to me that all too often the lack of any support network is a huge cause for emotional distress in those transitioning.
Quote from: ReverseRainbow on January 20, 2013, 03:26:19 PM
I always feel terrible around my mother and grandmother. I haven't the heart to tell them I'm not their 'precious little girl'. Im the only biologically female of all my cousins, so they cling to me. Comments like 'And you'll always be my baby girl' and 'Youre my only and favorite granddaughter' hurt so much.
I dont want to hurt them, I dont want want to take their little girl from them. But Im not that girl, and it hurts to try being her. And Im so afraid if I become who I really am, theyll always miss her and not want anything to do with me.
I've never actually put this into words before, and now Im in tears. I just feel so selfish half of the time.
Ugh, hugs all around. I know exactly where you're coming from...especially the feeling selfish part.
I was doing a little closet cleaning this weekend, getting rid of some rather girly things I no longer have the stomach to wear. But there were things I couldn't get rid of - gifts I'd gotten from my spouse and my parents and my family. It's a really confusing feeling. I'll never wear them again, but if I throw them out it feels like I've completely killed off my former self. And the idea that my husband no longer has a wife, my sister no longer has a sister, or that my parents no longer have this particular daughter, is something I can't deal with. Yet. It seems too hurtful.
The past few messages have been about people feeling selfish for transitioning (or even wanting to transition). I don't understand the self deprecating behavior being expressed here.
Would your relatives consult you when it came to their happiness? Would they consider your feelings when it comes to their personal well being or would they do what was best for them? Would they expect you to understand their motives or would they just do what they felt was right for them?
My point is you can not live your life for other people. If you try you are going to be extremely miserable eventually. If other people are the only thing that is holding you back from being your true self then you should transition.
Trying to wrap my head around the use of the term 'guilt'.
I feel guilt for things I am responsible for if they are in some fashion negative and were avoidable.
Hmmm am I responsible for being born? Nope, that was my parents fault.
Am I responsible for the body I was born in? Nope.
Am I responsible for how I was raised? Nope.
Is it my fault that at age 50 I finally have realized, at an earlier age, my life might have been so much different if I had had access to hindsight earlier? Nope.
I am in no way in need of feeling guilty for just being me. That's like suggesting my brother should feel guilty for being an Oscar Madison clone. His eats sleeps and breaths sports, works as an editor and is the consummate slob. Ok maybe he can feel a bit of guilt for being a slob :) But the sports is likely our father's fault. I got all of dad's artistic skill, his ability to make things, and his neat freak behaviour. I can't explain my brother being a slob, because mom is a neat type too.
I have no interest in feeling guilt all because I wish I had been given a girl's body at birth.
I mean, it's like me going around being mean to people because they lack my education level and my IQ. Granted I do tend to be a problem there. But expecting me to feel guilt for being me, is like me expecting others to feel guilt for being them (for some aspect likely not of their control).
Wow, your original post could have been written by me, except I'm going in the other direction. Every single word of what you said rings true to me.
I don't think I could ever be anything but stealth. To the point where if someone point-blank asked if I was trans I think I'd deny it, or act like I didn't know what they were talking about. Call it internalized transphobia, but whatever it is, I've got it pretty bad.
I've always viewed myself as a guy, so that's how I want others to see me. If they know I haven't always appeared as male they might form untrue assumptions about me that I could never cast off. Luckily for me, I seem to pass unquestionably as cis in my daily life... but you're right... you can't be "stealth" to family, or people who knew you before. And that's where the guilt and freakish feelings come in. I constantly wonder what it's like on the other side of the fence, to be the ones watching someone change so dramatically. I wonder if they are always seeking out my old female qualities (which i may or may not ever have had). If they think I'm less than. Whatever.
Thing is, my family's completely on board with me. I sometimes hear affirming things from them. At least they never mess up pronouns anymore. Some of them said terrible things in the past but they've changed their minds now. Yet those words always come back to haunt me and I have to work hard to forgive and forget.
I never even attempted to have a life as a female, so I know how you feel regarding that too. My life feels way behind everyone else's at my age. I've got a lot of catching up to do and a lot of stuff I should have learned that I just haven't yet.
I think we all tend to prepare for the worst hon. Sounds you had a good outcome anyway. :)
Quote from: girl you look fierce on January 24, 2013, 10:00:25 AM
Update:
So I came out to my dad and re-came out to my mom, and now I feel a new guilt cause they said they loved me and they don't think less of me, even if I feel like they don't really understand it yet and I'm not sure how they'll treat me in the future when push comes to shove. They still make no effort to gender me as female or use a different name but it's only been a couple days, they asked me to give them time.
If its only been a couple of days I would not worry. It will take time for them to see you as their daughter and not as their son. I think it is hard for a parent to come to grips with that.
That's an awesome feeling, isn't it? :)
Quote from: girl you look fierce on January 24, 2013, 11:39:19 AM
Thanks :) I know I am gonna have to wait and see. At least now nothing's my fault cause I don't have to tell any lies anymore. That's what bothered me more than being accepted or not.
So true! The lying to family and friends was always the hardest thing for me to accept about being in the closet. It was such a relief when I no longer had to keep lying to them and I could just be me.
I can relate to almost everything you are talking about. You remind me so much of myself it's ridiculous.
Quote from: girl you look fierce on January 17, 2013, 03:22:10 PM
@zumbagirl
I don't know about getting a job and stuff... I never got one presenting male cause I had severe anxiety problems. They're getting a little better since transitioning but I'm still not sure about getting a job when my legal transition is way behind my social one (outing myself is never an option to me).
Someday I want to but yeah. I am kinda in the classic housewife role you talked about except a mama to 2 kitties and not kids. I don't think it's why I feel inferior to other people... well maybe a little bit, I get jealous of people who are my age and can afford school and have future prospects etc.
I guess, yep, I feel inferior to people because in general my life seems so screwed up and behind everyone else, being trans just ruined everything in so many ways, most of it before I had even come out and it just caused all these emotional issues.
Remember this - you are NOT inferior to any other person. One of the most basic tenets of this human experience of ours is that everyone is created equal.
I will not say our road isn't harder than most, but we don't have to erect our own obstacles! There is nothing stopping you from improving yourself by attending a local community college, or studying through an online course.
And many people run home-based online businesses. No social anxiety there.
I am sure you can do it, if you put your mind to it.