ok wells my gender therapist is holding the hormone letter from me because i dont do chores around the house. i mean my parents do all the stuff that has to be done around the house like washing dishes, washing cloths, cleaning house, and other things. I mean wen i was a child my parents never made me do chores so why should i do them now, but back to my point. Is it legal that my gender therapist is holding the hormone letter from me because i dont do chores?
I would love to know why s/he finds that relevant?! Because I effing don't.
Some (dinosaur) therapists will use anything they see as resistance to adopting the gender roles of the gender you are identifying as, as a sign that you are not presenting fully or are somehow resisting your expressed gender role. This one sounds like a dinosaur, though he (I'm guessing the therapist is male?) could also believe that he's being cautious and alert to signs of resistance or ambivalance, given that at least some hormone changes are hard to reverse without surgery or other major efforts.
I'm forgetting which country you are in, Angélique? I'm guessing this kind of chauvinism is still a lot more prevalent in some places than it is in my neighborhood?
You have to ask yourself, practically speaking, whether this is a sign that he has no real intent of signing the letter, or whether you can get past this by submitting, if just for a little bit, to his manipulativeness. In practical terms, if you ditch him for someone new, chances are the new therapist is going to also need more time to get to a point where they feel they've acted responsibly. If doing some chores is the only thing standing between you and the letter, it might be simpler just to take on some chores and "act like a good girl" for awhile, even though it might not be something you want anyone to get used to expecting from you.
There was a time when some therapists would refuse to write letters if a transgirl wore a feminine pantsuit instead of a skirt and ultrafeminine blouse, or if she showed up at a session without lipstick. I heard accounts like these even in the 90s, though they were much more common in the 70s and 80s.
I think she is likely wanting to see enough maturity on your part, hence the anger issue stuff along with this. And I assume your parents are footing the bill, so...
Quote from: Elspeth on January 17, 2013, 10:50:11 PM
Some (dinosaur) therapists will use anything they see as resistance to adopting the gender roles of the gender you are identifying as, as a sign that you are not presenting fully or are somehow resisting your expressed gender role. This one sounds like a dinosaur, though he (I'm guessing the therapist is male?) could also believe that he's being cautious and alert to signs of resistance or ambivalance, given that at least some hormone changes are hard to reverse without surgery or other major efforts.
I'm forgetting which country you are in, Angélique? I'm guessing this kind of chauvinism is still a lot more prevalent in some places than it is in my neighborhood?
You have to ask yourself, practically speaking, whether this is a sign that he has no real intent of signing the letter, or whether you can get past this by submitting, if just for a little bit, to his manipulativeness. In practical terms, if you ditch him for someone new, chances are the new therapist is going to also need more time to get to a point where they feel they've acted responsibly. If doing some chores is the only thing standing between you and the letter, it might be simpler just to take on some chores and "act like a good girl" for awhile, even though it might not be something you want anyone to get used to expecting from you.
There was a time when some therapists would refuse to write letters if a transgirl wore a feminine pantsuit instead of a skirt and ultrafeminine blouse, or if she showed up at a session without lipstick. I heard accounts like these even in the 90s, though they were much more common in the 70s and 80s.
shes a woman, and I'm as femine as they come. She says I act like a diva, and she said that I dress like a slut. If I had to guess she's in her 50s. She already said that she feels I'm transgender. I just don't like her trieing to change me n turn me into wat she thinks a woman is. She's wanting me to act like the woman in the 1950s n i dont want to be like those woman. So Idk wat to do cause she's trieing to change who I am completely
Quote from: Jaime on January 17, 2013, 10:56:42 PM
I think she is likely wanting to see enough maturity on your part, hence the anger issue stuff along with this. And I assume your parents are footing the bill, so...
by bill do u mean the appointment bill? If so then I'm paying out my own money to see my gender therapist
Quote from: Jaime on January 17, 2013, 10:56:42 PM
I think she is likely wanting to see enough maturity on your part, hence the anger issue stuff along with this. And I assume your parents are footing the bill, so...
Just skimmed through your other posts. While I don't find the objection relevant, I get the Dinosaur analogy presented by Elspeth and could totally see what Jaime is saying.
Quote from: Angélique LaCava on January 17, 2013, 11:02:59 PM
by bill do u mean the appointment bill? If so then I'm paying out my own money to see my gender therapist
I'm talking about overall support, place to live, food, etc.
Quote from: Jaime on January 17, 2013, 11:06:01 PM
I'm talking about overall support, place to live, food, etc.
oh well I buy my own food wit my own money, but my parents do pay the house bills
Quote from: Angélique LaCava on January 17, 2013, 11:08:35 PM
oh well I buy my own food wit my own money, but my parents do pay the house bills
Do you have a job then?
Just curious.
And keep in mind that I am in no way supporting what your therapist is doing, but that its just my best guess as to what her intentions are with you. She may be hesitant about allowing someone she feels might not be mature enough to deal with the outcome or to make such a decision.
Quote from: Angélique LaCava on January 17, 2013, 11:01:33 PMShe says I act like a diva, and she said that I dress like a slut.
Were those her actual words? Slut-shaming is seriously unprofessional behaviour from any therapist, let alone a gender specialist.
Quote from: Jaime on January 17, 2013, 11:14:47 PM
Do you have a job then?
Just curious.
And keep in mind that I am in no way supporting what your therapist is doing, but that its just my best guess as to what her intentions are with you. She may be hesitant about allowing someone she feels might not be mature enough to deal with the outcome or to make such a decision.
no not yet, and she said that shes afraid that im not ready to be able to handle the mental changes that will come after hormones.
Quote from: AlexD on January 17, 2013, 11:15:59 PM
Were those her actual words? Slut-shaming is seriously unprofessional behaviour from any therapist, let alone a gender specialist.
yep. She said my cloths make me look like a slut.
Guessing about motives and prejudices is something I try not to do, But as long as we have been doing this a bit, given your estimate of her age, she could be suggesting that in some ways you're presenting more as a drag queen than her notion of a mature-for-her-age teen or twentysomething.
But honestly, at this distance and with selective info, she could be saying almost anything.
She may have some quite valid concerns about the impact of hormones emotionally, and in terms of her concerns that you might be impulsive, or expose yourself to harm and potential violence? That's the generous interpretation, but in fact, we're all responding to what is at best a second-hand version of what is going on and what she is saying. I'm missing all the non-verbal cues by having only words and how they were interpreted by you... not a good basis for assessing what she is really trying to say, or whether she is acting out of realistic concern, or simply being manipulative?
If the conflict between you makes it too hard to hear what she is trying to say to you, then the match may just be one that is not in your best interest, assuming you can find an alternate therapist who you can communicate with more clearly, with less noise getting into the mix.
Quote from: Elspeth on January 18, 2013, 12:24:58 AM
Guessing about motives and prejudices is something I try not to do, But as long as we have been doing this a bit, given your estimate of her age, she could be suggesting that in some ways you're presenting more as a drag queen than her notion of a mature-for-her-age teen or twentysomething.
But honestly, at this distance and with selective info, she could be saying almost anything.
She may have some quite valid concerns about the impact of hormones emotionally, and in terms of her concerns that you might be impulsive, or expose yourself to harm and potential violence? That's the generous interpretation, but in fact, we're all responding to what is at best a second-hand version of what is going on and what she is saying. I'm missing all the non-verbal cues by having only words and how they were interpreted by you... not a good basis for assessing what she is really trying to say, or whether she is acting out of realistic concern, or simply being manipulative?
If the conflict between you makes it too hard to hear what she is trying to say to you, then the match may just be one that is not in your best interest, assuming you can find an alternate therapist who you can communicate with more clearly, with less noise getting into the mix.
she never said i present like a drag queen she just said i dont dress like a mature woman. i dont want to dress like a mature woman. What i dont like is that she tells me to stop dressing the way i do, but girls that are my age dress way worse than me and they show more skin than i do and im not gonna change my style if other girls are wearing basically the same things as me
I'd say if your that close, just jump through the hoop and get your letter and never see her again. Whats a few weeks of chores after all in the grand scheme of things?
You'll still be you at the end of the day, regardless what she thinks.
But if your parents want you to help out, that's different.
Quote from: aleah on January 18, 2013, 01:08:55 AM
I'd say if your that close, just jump through the hoop and get your letter and never see her again. Whats a few weeks of chores after all in the grand scheme of things?
You'll still be you at the end of the day, regardless what she thinks.
But if your parents want you to help out, that's different.
ik but their isnt that many 2 do since my mom always prefers herself to do them n not anyone else. It's mainly my dad n therapist wanting me to do chores
Quote from: Angélique LaCava on January 17, 2013, 10:10:11 PM
ok wells my gender therapist is holding the hormone letter from me because i dont do chores around the house. i mean my parents do all the stuff that has to be done around the house like washing dishes, washing cloths, cleaning house, and other things. I mean wen i was a child my parents never made me do chores so why should i do them now, but back to my point. Is it legal that my gender therapist is holding the hormone letter from me because i dont do chores?
Quote from: Angélique LaCava on January 18, 2013, 12:28:47 AM
she never said i present like a drag queen she just said i dont dress like a mature woman. i dont want to dress like a mature woman. What i dont like is that she tells me to stop dressing the way i do, but girls that are my age dress way worse than me and they show more skin than i do and im not gonna change my style if other girls are wearing basically the same things as me
Quote from: Angélique LaCava on January 17, 2013, 11:18:57 PM
no not yet, and she said that shes afraid that im not ready to be able to handle the mental changes that will come after hormones.
She's not holding the letter from you because you don't do chores..
She's holding the letter from you because she came to the conclusion you're too irresponsible and immature to handle transition.
Perhaps you can find a part time Job or Volunteer at some place where you can show your family and the therapist you are responsible. Why not go to a lgbt youth center or a homeless shelter or something like that. Put in some time, make people feel good and yourself feel good.
My therapist made me get my life together before I got the ok for hormones. I was 24 living at home. She wanted me to show I could be self sufficient and make it on my own. Also my parents didn't want to watch me transition. Your therapist seems to be trying to get you to a place where you are mature and responsible.
Pretty sure you cant tell someone to self medicare on here...
But what do I know I'm being watched.. :P
I believe shes allready on anti androgens
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on January 18, 2013, 01:58:17 AM
Pretty sure you cant tell someone to self medicare on here...
But what do I know I'm being watched.. :P
I believe shes allready on anti androgens
no I'm not on any anti androgens. I'm just gonna email her tomarrow
n ask her to refer me to a endo doctor to start me on an anti androgen to make sure I don't get madculine
Quote from: PoisonEnvy on January 18, 2013, 01:55:04 AM
After reading a few of your posts I'm starting to think your therapist is the gate keeper type. Honestly if I were you i'd just self-med secretly until the old bat writes a letter, you look pretty young and the longer you wait the more masculine your gonna get. Self-medding isn't rocket science and isn't that dangerous if you have commen sense. Your therapist is doing more harm then good, she could at least recommend to a doctor you start an antiandrogen like spirolactone to halt any further changes.
You sound like a responsible girl you just need the right sex hormones in you to feel complete.
ive thought of self medicating but I'm to scared to cause I've heard people died cause they did that
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on January 18, 2013, 01:58:17 AM
Pretty sure you cant tell someone to self medicare on here...
But what do I know I'm being watched.. :P
I believe shes allready on anti androgens
No I think it's just discussing self-med dosages that is not allowed.
Quote from: Angélique LaCava on January 18, 2013, 02:06:13 AM
ive thought of self medicating but I'm to scared to cause I've heard people died cause they did that
I've never heard of anyone dying because of DIY hormones but i'm sure it's possible if your really dumb haha.
Quote from: Angélique LaCava on January 18, 2013, 02:06:13 AM
ive thought of self medicating but I'm to scared to cause I've heard people died cause they did that
Good plan
Its just a bad idea all around because everyone is different and you don't know how you body will react.
Quote from: PoisonEnvy on January 18, 2013, 01:55:04 AM
After reading a few of your posts I'm starting to think your therapist is the gate keeper type. Honestly if I were you i'd just self-med secretly until the old bat writes a letter, you look pretty young and the longer you wait the more masculine your gonna get. Self-medding isn't rocket science and isn't that dangerous if you have commen sense. Your therapist is doing more harm then good, she could at least recommend to a doctor you start an antiandrogen like spirolactone to halt any further changes.
You sound like a responsible girl you just need the right sex hormones in you to feel complete.
Quote8. The discussion of hormone replacement therapy(HRT) and it's medications are permitted, with the following limitations:
A. You may not advocate for or against a specific medication or combinations of medication for personal gain. This is strictly prohibited.
B. You may not discuss the means to acquire HRT medications without a prescription. The discussion of self medication without a doctors supervision is prohibited.
C. The discussion of recommended or actual dosages is strongly discouraged to prevent information obtained on this site from being used to self medicate.
We can not in good conscience condone the self administering of these medications. Not only may self medication be illegal, but HRT medications can cause serious health problems, and many have the potential for life-threatening side effects that can only be detected and prevented with proper medical supervision
You can't advocate self medicating. Just to let you know.
OP don't listen to MyAlias, your therapist sounds like a gate keeper and expects you to act like her version of what girls are supposed to be. As long as your not suicidally depressed and don't suffer from multi-personality disorder then your mentally fit for hormones. They really don't have any mental effects other then being more emotional. I remember seeing your threads on here awhile back and couldn't believe your still waiting to get on hormones. If she won't give you a letter then find a new therapist then go to a informed consent clinic.
I don't think they let you talk about self-med here anymore but you can pm me on here or skype me for more info if you want. :P
Oh boy here we go again...
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on January 18, 2013, 02:35:25 AM
Oh boy here we go again...
no I'm not gonna start a arguement lol. That's her opinion of me, it's like watevers but thanks for giving me ur input
Ask your doctor to be put on T blockers, also I suggest dressing a bit more the way they want, don't try and seem defiant. It really is only for the time of the session, as for needing maturity , I don't think I was mature and I was lazy at 13 and if I could start HRT then I would. If i was homeless and no money I still would, I know they are trying to help you be ready in your journey in transition and work you through it. Honestly tho they need to help you work out if you are a transsexual. Not judge you on how womanly they think you should appear to be. There are some pretty bad gender therapists out there, one was calling me a male name which wasn't even my birth name and she knew me for years. Also referred people who are transgender as "you people" sigh.
The ultimate problem here is that Angelique feels she is being strung along. If you recall her past posts, the "therapist" has thrown up roadblock after roadblock.
Now that Angelique is of age, and with the Standards of Care changing to give the transgendered person more say in their own care, including about when to begin HRT, it may be helpful to go directly to a GLBT-friendly doctor, if one is in the area.
Angelique I would recommend finding another therapist or an endo who is trans friendly and skipping the middle man so to speak. If you aren't capable of doing that then work on getting yourself into a position where your parents are not in a position to pull rank on you or influence your therapists decisions.
I am very concerned about the free and easy way people are willing to post inflammatory and necessary rude material in this thread.
I will not tolerate it.
If you find that your emotions are getting the better of you, don't post.
Cindy James
Global Moderator.
Are you going to one specifically trained in lgbt matters? My gf is going to therapy through our school and they had a pre-session session in order to find out more about her and which therapist could best help her needs. I thought that was a great idea and her therapist has been nothing but wonderful and supportive. My gf still dresses male and nearly gives off a Brad Majors vibe (from years of suppression) yet she was able to get her note after like 5 50 minute sessions. Is there a tg resource in your area that could recommend someone to you?
Gender and maturity, two separate ball games. I don't feel its valid to hold someone back for such reasons~ One is growing up, and the other is an actual condition.
She can still learn to grow up while on hormones~
I don't think the gender therapist is necessarily doing it maliciously, she is behaving more like any parent would.
One thing that is bugging me a bit about this thread and the comments. We generally tell people to seek out a therapist and say that therapists are needed for the most part. Is it necessarily a good idea to tell her to go therapist shopping until she basically finds herself a rubber stamper type? Sure, there is a possibility her current therapist is being more of a gatekeeper type, but then we can't know for sure. We get one perspective of what's going on and with no offense to Angelique, that perspective could be leaving out things she may feel would shed unfavorable light on her side, we just simply don't know, but it is what a lot of people do, some without fully realizing they are doing it. And really, we could be doing her a great disservice by telling her to shop around until she finds someone who will do just as she wants without question.
Just something to think about.
Quote from: Angélique LaCava on January 17, 2013, 10:10:11 PM
Is it legal that my gender therapist is holding the hormone letter from me because i dont do chores?
Legal? Yes. There's no law that your therapist has to write you a letter.
However, I think it's highly questionable. WPATH standards of care explicitly state that it is the patient's own decision when she is ready for hormones.
From bottom paragraph on page 25 (http://www.wpath.org/documents/Standards%20of%20Care%20V7%20-%202011%20WPATH.pdf (http://www.wpath.org/documents/Standards%20of%20Care%20V7%20-%202011%20WPATH.pdf)):
QuoteIt is important for mental health professionals to recognize that decisions about hormones are first
and foremost the client's decisions
The reason for that is that withholding hormone therapy from transgender patients is dangerous. Depression, suicide, and self-destructive behaviors can result (such as self-medicating. Don't don't don't do that. It's DANGEROUS!)
For that reason I think your therapist is being irresponsible (just my opinion, I'm no expert).
Some suggestions:
* Ask if you can change therapists.
* Show the standards of care to your therapist. Mention your concerns that delaying HRT will have a negative effect on your adjustment and mental health.
* See if you can find an ally. Is there an adult who can advise you on how to convince whoever needs to be convinced to change therapists?
* Give yourself credit for dealing with a difficult situation. Dealing with a problematic therapy situation is one of the nastier things that happen to us on the road to our transition.
* Hang in there, girl. You'll get past this.
If You have been to therapy for a long time, and all thats holding you back is an opinion that has nothing to do with your gender. A rubber stamp might not be a bad idea.
8. The discussion of hormone replacement therapy(HRT) and it's medications are permitted, with the following limitations:
A. You may not advocate for or against a specific medication or combinations of medication for personal gain. This is strictly prohibited.
B. You may not discuss the means to acquire HRT medications without a prescription. The discussion of self medication without a doctors supervision is prohibited.
C. The discussion of recommended or actual dosages is strongly discouraged to prevent information obtained on this site from being used to self medicate.
We do not condone self medication on this site. This thread is locked.