So I work with this woman who is seriously one of the nicest people I've ever met.
One problem....she's nuts.
Somehow Obama came up in conversation and she started spewing every right wing extremist talking point in the book. Telling me my rights are being taken away, the election was fixed, the government wants to disarm us, gay is a choice, god this god that blah blah blah.
Right now i'm freaking out about when I go full time and being stuck in a small space with this woman. She's such a nice person but i'm afraid once I come out the judgement will begin.
Does anyone else have any experience with dealing with these types of people once full time in the workplace?
*Raises hand*
Crazy religious extremist here. We generally aren't nuts, by the way - we just hold different values.
I have a family full of them.
There is rarely any reasoning with them. Their opinions are biblicaly sound, especially the ones that have no biblical source.
Quote from: ZoeM on January 18, 2013, 10:49:34 AM
*Raises hand*
Crazy religious extremist here. We generally aren't nuts, by the way - we just hold different values.
Ya, that's not what I asked. This isn't a discussion of values, don't try to bait me.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on January 18, 2013, 10:43:39 AM
Does anyone else have any experience with dealing with these types of people once full time in the workplace?
Keep your enemies closer?
I don't have exactly direct experience, though there are probably people like this in my neighborhood. I'm thinking, though, that one strategy would be to get to know her very, very well, as much as you could with integrity and as much as you are willing to stretch yourself, so that when you do come out, maybe, even if she does feel compelled to cut you off impulsively, some part of her is going to have to deal with the reality check instead of the bigoted stereotyping and generalizations, and usually, for anyone truly decent, reality has a way of winning out.
My dad was a rabid Republican and NRA member when I was younger. Today he is very, very different, because he has a brain and a conscience. He has even apologized for some of the ridiculous stuff he imposed on us as a part of the religion he was attached to at the time. Granted, he was always a critical thinker, so the change came because he started to challenge some of those assumptions. And even when his only interest was in whether I was gay, the concern was more about my well-being and his own curiousity about how gay guys could do the things he assumed they did (many of which are things that only some gay guys themselves are into).
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on January 18, 2013, 10:43:39 AM
Does anyone else have any experience with dealing with these types of people once full time in the workplace?
I've come across a lot of people like this. Many are actually decent people, but people who've never gotten used to questioning what they hear. They hear their clergyman or a radio talk show host spouting lies and it doesn't occur to them to think about it.
When I meet folk like this, I don't assume they're going to reject me. I leave that decision up to them. I try to see the good in them. It isn't their fault they're easily swayed.
I've found it doesn't help to confront them with facts. The radio hosts they listen to have already covered that base, warning them that the world is biased against them, etc. Better just to steer the discussion away.
Have a word with human resources or your union they may be able to help
Quote from: agfrommd on January 18, 2013, 10:58:07 AM
I've come across a lot of people like this. Many are actually decent people, but people who've never gotten used to questioning what they hear. They hear their clergyman or a radio talk show host spouting lies and it doesn't occur to them to think about it.
When I meet folk like this, I don't assume they're going to reject me. I leave that decision up to them. I try to see the good in them. It isn't their fault they're easily swayed.
I've found it doesn't help to confront them with facts. The radio hosts they listen to have already covered that base, warning them that the world is biased against them, etc. Better just to steer the discussion away.
I've worked with this woman for almost three years now and never knew she had these views till recently because honestly politics never came up in conversation with her. I knew she was religious but religion doesn't signify someone holds all these far right views.
Like I said she's always been so nice to me, I guess i'm just hoping that doesn't change and that her good nature overrides any prejudice she may feel towards me being trans.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on January 18, 2013, 10:43:39 AM
So I work with this woman who is seriously one of the nicest people I've ever met.
One problem....she's nuts.
Somehow Obama came up in conversation and she started spewing every right wing extremist talking point in the book. Telling me my rights are being taken away, the election was fixed, the government wants to disarm us, gay is a choice, god this god that blah blah blah.
Right now i'm freaking out about when I go full time and being stuck in a small space with this woman. She's such a nice person but i'm afraid once I come out the judgement will begin.
Does anyone else have any experience with dealing with these types of people once full time in the workplace?
So you disagree with someone you work with? Big deal. Just tell her you disagree with her and that you don't want to discuss those topics. If she continues, then pursue HR.
"These types of people" - do you realize you just did what we accuse them of doing? Of segregating us because we are different? Are you really that scared of someone who disagrees with you that you're freaking out about it?
Having a conservative viewpoint doesn't make someone nuts; it means they disagree with what you say. :)
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on January 18, 2013, 10:53:26 AM
Ya, that's not what I asked. This isn't a discussion of values, don't try to bait me.
That's not what I meant, either.
I suppose I should rephrase: it doesn't help, if you disagree with someone's actions or beliefs, to call them nuts and try to "deal" with them as though they're an obstacle in your path. Objectively speaking, you both have strongly held convictions, and the only good way to come to an amicable conclusion is to be just as willing to understand where she's coming from as you want her to be to you. I can't promise she'll do the same, but if neither of you tries, nothing has even a chance of happening.
I must apologize, though; I took personal offense at the labels you applied to broad-sense conservatives/Christians, and was thus more annoyed than I should have been. My type tends to be the brunt of jokes and rants even at my local support group, who know my stances on many issues, and my skin is a bit thin there. My apologies.
As she had not said anything up until now, she may very well just not say anything again.
You can try reasoning with them about how she unlikely follows the bible to the letter (unless she doesn't eat pork, seafood, wear mixed fabric, ever have a round hair cut or associate with men while she is on her period).
Again, though, there is rarely reasoning with people who are irrational.
Good luck x
Quote from: ZoeM on January 18, 2013, 11:22:10 AM
willing to understand where she's coming from as you want her to be to you.
I think MaidofOrleans understands already where she is coming from and that is what concerns her! :-)
Quote from: Incarnadine on January 18, 2013, 11:09:36 AM
So you disagree with someone you work with? Big deal. Just tell her you disagree with her and that you don't want to discuss those topics. If she continues, then pursue HR.
"These types of people" - do you realize you just did what we accuse them of doing? Of segregating us because we are different? Are you really that scared of someone who disagrees with you that you're freaking out about it?
Having a conservative viewpoint doesn't make someone nuts; it means they disagree with what you say. :)
It's not that her viewpoints are different, it's that they are in my mind dumbfounded to downright crazy.
Obama is a fascist communist socialist - crazy
The election was fixed - crazy
Life was better in the days of the founders - crazy
Gay is a choice and they must be saved or they will burn - crazy
I could go on but hopefully you see my point and why a rational person such as myself would be frightened that someone actually believes these things to be true.
Not to mention someone I spend a large portion of my day next to...
As a conservative Christian that does not agree with transgender views I personally find your coworker's attitude repulsive.
In the workplace we are paid to do a job.
Should the door open as to what we believe we are commanded by the scriptures to answer in truth according to the doctrine handed down from the apostles and prophets unto the original church.
The word of God says be ready to give an answer to anyone of the hope within us. Not lecture or humiliate or infuriate.
Some Christians have taken the scriptures about going into all the world and used it to justify a slothful work ethic and a cloak for their own desire to have everone live according to their views of Christianity. What they accomplish is doing more harm than good.
It shouldn't matter if your co-worker is gay, lesbian, transgender, bisexual, single, married, partnered or of a different faith altogether.
It's a job.
If they ask fine.
If they don't fine.
These Christians make the rest who truly love the souls of others look bad.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on January 18, 2013, 10:43:39 AM
Does anyone else have any experience with dealing with these types of people once full time in the workplace?
My first job full time I worked with a born again woman. I was invited to their church meetings, parties, recruiting festivals, whatever you call it, but I never went. I was nouveau full time so I would say it was pretty easy to clock me and I'm pretty sure she had sized me up pretty quickly as a trans woman.
That being said we became shopping buddies :) we worked almost walking distance to a shopping mall and we became good friends being bargain hunters together. I have met various Christian people over the years and the responses have varied from "okay thanks for telling me" to "that's disgusting" so I guess it really gets down to the nuttiness factor.
I've had coworkers like that, no big deal, just didn't discuss it with them, they know I am agnostic and things were fine. So long as they treat me with respect in the workplace, I don't give a rat's behind what they think otherwise.
Del you said:
QuoteAs a conservative Christian that does not agree with transgender views
What views are you not in agreement with?
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on January 18, 2013, 10:43:39 AM
So I work with this woman who is seriously one of the nicest people I've ever met.
One problem....she's nuts.
Somehow Obama came up in conversation and she started spewing every right wing extremist talking point in the book. Telling me my rights are being taken away, the election was fixed, the government wants to disarm us, gay is a choice, god this god that blah blah blah.
Right now i'm freaking out about when I go full time and being stuck in a small space with this woman. She's such a nice person but i'm afraid once I come out the judgement will begin.
Does anyone else have any experience with dealing with these types of people once full time in the workplace?
Most of my family are fundamentalist Christians, and while i don't work with them I am just now starting to show them who I really am with logic and love. Maybe you can start slipping your co worker some things to read, that she can wrap her head around. It doesnt always work i am finding but hey, I was a fundie just 9 months ago.
Until she does something that is hateful or hurtful towards you, or someone else, you will just have to endure it.
Just one more thing just because people have opposite points of view on politics or morals or culture doesn't mean they don't have anything in common. Find what you have in common. Maybe she's a cat lady for example so foster a mutual interest in cats. People even those who hold extreme points of view (be it left or right) will have a hard time rejecting someone they have invested a friendship in.
My own personal experience with religious people is actually pretty positive to be honest. It all comes down to confidence. I am as confident in my opinion that transsexual people exist and are just a normal variation of humanity as a religious person would be to say its s choice and a sin.
I find most people don't bring religion to the workplace for the obvious reason that their own religion could in fact be a minority and most companies don't want hassles or lawsuits.
The only issues which might be a sticking points are the good old bathroom issues. If you want to really prove a point then do this: make yourself so invaluable to your job that if you think this coworker is going to threaten your ability to work then you will have the power to point out all the things she is going to have to do once you are gone. She herself might not like the position she is finding herself in under those circumstances (working more hours, doing extra tasks, etc)
I always find it more than disconcerting at how some so-called Christians take on such a non Christ-like mantel and hypocritically enter into bashing the GLBTI community, because it only serves to give Christ a black eye in the view of those so victimized and frankly I doubt the validity of their claim to be called Christians. On the other hand I am disgusted and equally repulsed at the piling on, feeding frenzy and anti-Christian rhetoric of non believers within the GLBTI community, who would expect to be accepted by all, preferring to consider themselves unbiased and accepting while serving up a load of hypocritical crap!
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on January 18, 2013, 11:39:23 AM
I could go on but hopefully you see my point and why a rational person such as myself would be frightened that someone actually believes these things to be true.
One woman's rationale is another woman's blindfold.
It is this kind of superior posturing that creates interpersonal problems: "I cannot see how she came to her conclusions, therefore she must be crazy." Instead, our attitude should be "I cannot see how she came to her conclusions, therefore we either need to create dialogue or agree to work together in silent unity."
And if you think about it, it took her three years to become comfortable enough with you to be able to share her opinions with you. There must be some trust there, right?
My advice would be to ignore her. If she crosses a line with you, then report her to human resources.
One of the problems with trying to show people how things really are, is that we get so emotional we end up attacking each other and i am sure you all are aware of the bloody history we have fighting over who is right and wrong. Again all i can say is to use logic and love as your weapon. Its not her that is your enemy, but instead principalities.
I'm pretty sure that you are going to set her on edge a lot more than she would ever set you on edge. On the other hand, she may just make it her life's mission to save you. Just live your life the same as she does. Make your opinions known and don't let anybody change your mind. People bang their heads enough, eventually they get the hint.
Quote from: Del on January 18, 2013, 11:43:39 AM
As a conservative Christian that does not agree with transgender views
You know this is a transgender support site right?
Quote from: Incarnadine on January 18, 2013, 12:17:00 PM
One woman's rationale is another woman's blindfold.
It is this kind of superior posturing that creates interpersonal problems: "I cannot see how she came to her conclusions, therefore she must be crazy." Instead, our attitude should be "I cannot see how she came to her conclusions, therefore we either need to create dialogue or agree to work together in silent unity."
And if you think about it, it took her three years to become comfortable enough with you to be able to share her opinions with you. There must be some trust there, right?
No politics just never came up in conversation.
If your going to quote another members post, be sure you include the entire sentence.
Del: As a conservative Christian that does not agree with transgender views I personally find your coworker's attitude repulsive.
That changes the entire meaning of the sentence.
Quote from: Sarah Louise on January 18, 2013, 01:59:40 PM
If your going to quote another members post, be sure you include the entire sentence.
Del: As a conservative Christian that does not agree with transgender views I personally find your coworker's attitude repulsive.
That changes the entire meaning of the sentence.
So does proper punctuation...
.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on January 18, 2013, 10:43:39 AM
So I work with this woman who is seriously one of the nicest people I've ever met.
One problem....she's nuts.
Somehow Obama came up in conversation and she started spewing every right wing extremist talking point in the book. Telling me my rights are being taken away, the election was fixed, the government wants to disarm us, gay is a choice, god this god that blah blah blah.
Right now i'm freaking out about when I go full time and being stuck in a small space with this woman. She's such a nice person but i'm afraid once I come out the judgement will begin.
Does anyone else have any experience with dealing with these types of people once full time in the workplace?
It seems to me that there are a number of issues you have with your co-worker, and they are all being lumped into one big basket of "religious" and "rightwing." My suggestion would be that you tell her that you do not agree with her views and could she refrain from discussing them in the workplace. If she continues to create a hostile work environment, then discuss it with your supervisor.
Just as a note, there are quite a few "leftwing" people who are equally worried about the erosion of liberties these days.
Quote from: muuu on January 18, 2013, 04:01:42 PM
Lets not be like that... Even if you disagree with somebody, you can support them out of respect. Del has their own reasons to be here, maybe dealing with somebody who is TG or just trying to educate themselves.
I think if your co-worker hasn't spoken out of her believes before, she's probably quiet about those things in general. I don't think she'd make a big deal out of it, maybe in her own head, but I probably keep it there.
She's brings up her religion a lot but I have always ignored it for simple fact of not wanting to start conflict. When the president came up I questioned her fear of him and that's when she exploded into a rant making all sorts of crazy claims common of conspiracy theorists.
I don't like extremists of any kind.
I work with a women who is exactly this way. When I told her about my transitioning at work she listened. She told me that she does not agree with what I am doing but that is my choice. When I started presenting at work she made it clear to use my male name and male pronouns to me and customers. The only thing I can say is to talk to your HR about how to handle this situation(I had to do this for about 3 people).
Quote from: Claire25 on January 18, 2013, 04:21:37 PM
I work with a women who is exactly this way. When I told her about my transitioning at work she listened. She told me that she does not agree with what I am doing but that is my choice. When I started presenting at work she made it clear to use my male name and male pronouns to me and customers. The only thing I can say is to talk to your HR about how to handle this situation(I had to do this for about 3 people).
My biggest fear is that she will be like that or not talk to me at all. Like I said I like her as a person, I'm just afraid she will be different based on her beliefs once I come out.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on January 18, 2013, 04:38:41 PM
My biggest fear is that she will be like that or not talk to me at all. Like I said I like her as a person, I'm just afraid she will be different based on her beliefs once I come out.
It's possible that the only reason she launched into a big rant in front of you was because she assumed you wouldn't be offended by any of her statements. If she knew you were trans, she still might not approve, but she might also have the grace to remain polite to you. After all, you've said she's a nice person.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on January 18, 2013, 04:38:41 PM
My biggest fear is that she will be like that or not talk to me at all. Like I said I like her as a person, I'm just afraid she will be different based on her beliefs once I come out.
Might be a good time to quote Dale Carnegie about how 90% of the things that worry us never come to pass.
My eldest son married a right wing fundamentalist Christian who came from a family of the same. He speaks to me but has already told me he will never use proper pronouns with me and that he believes I am "mentally unbalanced" for coming out about my trans condition.
My experience with "fundies" has been uniformly ugly and these were all people who said they admired me before, the work I did as a youth sports coach, the way I encouraged children to use their gifts, etc. And now I am a monster, to be shunned and, if possible, shamed.
Conservative Christians, as a group, do not get any sympathy from me any more as they give none, claiming persecution where none exists. If they want to really understand persecution, walk in a trans person's shoes for a while!
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on January 18, 2013, 10:43:39 AM
So I work with this woman who is seriously one of the nicest people I've ever met.
One problem....she's nuts.
Somehow Obama came up in conversation and she started spewing every right wing extremist talking point in the book. Telling me my rights are being taken away, the election was fixed, the government wants to disarm us, gay is a choice, god this god that blah blah blah.
Right now i'm freaking out about when I go full time and being stuck in a small space with this woman. She's such a nice person but i'm afraid once I come out the judgement will begin.
Does anyone else have any experience with dealing with these types of people once full time in the workplace?
personally I lost a friend this way. I really like her as a friend and she knows i'm trans, but politically I just got too angry on her view which wasn't really trans suporting.
I agree with her saying that we as people cant agree 100% on each other on everything but I guess somethings just hits your harder than other, something your a part of yourself or you know famely or people close to you who are, for me many transfolks are also like a famely to me so its hits very hard with non-suporters I have known for so long.
---
I think its best to come out to her, She might not be suportive, But fact is friends are not for hidding who you are, they are to accept and respect you for the person you are,
neither are they for putting you down, there for raising you up. if people cant really do those thing I wont call them real friends.
now I really dont understand the whole religion thing vs GLBT.
maybe try to make her gives aguments for why its wrong to be trans or gay, this will also give you a chance to tell her why you dont belive so and be critical.
ex she say gay is a choise, you can ask her why anyone would choose to be a minority, or even risk lives in certain parts of the world.
also if she say its stands in the bible you can ask where exactly it stands, and why this citat is more important than to overlook the citat that we shall love each other and not hate? you can also pick out other citats from the bible see if she agree, theres alot of f* up stuff im sure neither of you follow ;).
sorry if it sound too easy on text, But I just dont think it will change if you dont try yourself to take the first step, and I think if you really like her it might be worth a try to change her view abit to a way who accept you and your people near.
if now then its her lose.
generally try being the mature one and play fair.
it not because of her religion so dont put the big focus on that, it's because she got view who seams to could you or people you like down. so its yourself (and others) your to defend and feel offended about.
thats understandable and just let her know that this is personal harmfull.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on January 18, 2013, 04:38:41 PM
My biggest fear is that she will be like that or not talk to me at all. Like I said I like her as a person, I'm just afraid she will be different based on her beliefs once I come out.
My closest friend and I never talk about 2 things. Religion and politics. We are polar opposites. Her being a staunch Catholic and me an atheist. Her political views are also exactly opposite of mine. Therefore we've made it a unspoken rule never to discuss them as it always starts arguments, and we have so many other things to talk about.
While we aren't co workers now, we used to be.
Quote from: Natkat on January 18, 2013, 05:01:50 PMsorry if it sound too easy on text, But I just dont think it will change if you dont try yourself to take the first step, and I think if you really like her it might be worth a try to change her view abit to a way who accept you and your people near.
Attempting to change the views of an extremist almost never works. Their beliefs are just too heavily tied up in their identity, so trying to change them will only make your opponent defend their beliefs even more staunchly. I'm afraid this lady sounds like a lost cause on the change-her-views front... but I do think that if she's as nice as MaidofOrleans says she is, then a change of beliefs won't be necessary for her to remain civil.
Quote from: Annah on January 18, 2013, 12:19:36 PM
My advice would be to ignore her. If she crosses a line with you, then report her to human resources.
I would establish boundaries first. This can range from a polite, "Your comments are making me uncomfortable", all the way to a stern, "I don't give two cents what your gawd might think about me...you and him can rot in hell together."
If setting boundaries don't work...go to HR. If HR doesn't give satisfaction, sue the company for discrimination and creating a hostile work environment.
The woman who zapped my beard off: A religious conservative who supported me so much I gave her a hug after my last session.
My mother, who's been able to call me Paige a couple of times now (In just about 2 weeks from coming out) gave me motherly advise of "Get your eyebrows fixed!" earlier this week, also adores Glenn Beck and supported Rick Santorum during the last election. Also a long time Evangelical, though I'm not 100% sure where she is now.
My father, an atheist liberal, won't talk to me since I came out.
People are very complex. I say give this person a chance, she may well surprise you in a wonderful way. Maybe it'll even teach her to pause and think before she speaks. Maybe not, but I've become an optimist!
Quote from: Misato33 on January 18, 2013, 09:03:42 PM
The woman who zapped my beard off: A religious conservative who supported me so much I gave her a hug after my last session.
My mother, who's been able to call me Paige a couple of times now (In just about 2 weeks from coming out) gave me motherly advise of "Get your eyebrows fixed!" earlier this week, also adores Glenn Beck and supported Rick Santorum during the last election. Also a long time Evangelical, though I'm not 100% sure where she is now.
My father, an atheist liberal, won't talk to me since I came out.
People are very complex. I say give this person a chance, she may well surprise you in a wonderful way. Maybe it'll even teach her to pause and think before she speaks. Maybe not, but I've become an optimist!
I'm liking the optimism!
Like I said, I hope her good nature is an overriding factor in how she feels towards me.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on January 18, 2013, 10:43:39 AM
So I work with this woman who is seriously one of the nicest people I've ever met.
One problem....she's nuts.
Somehow Obama came up in conversation and she started spewing every right wing extremist talking point in the book. Telling me my rights are being taken away, the election was fixed, the government wants to disarm us, gay is a choice, god this god that blah blah blah.
Right now i'm freaking out about when I go full time and being stuck in a small space with this woman. She's such a nice person but i'm afraid once I come out the judgement will begin.
Does anyone else have any experience with dealing with these types of people once full time in the workplace?
Kia Ora MoO,
::) All I can say is...Don't let the 'unknown' play tricks with your mind !
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: Misato33 on January 18, 2013, 09:03:42 PM
People are very complex. I say give this person a chance, she may well surprise you in a wonderful way. Maybe it'll even teach her to pause and think before she speaks. Maybe not, but I've become an optimist!
I agree with everything Misato says. My own experience is that acceptance or non-acceptance can be found in the strangest quarters. I can tell you there are some very liberal people who will have issues with trans people and people who you might think are sure that the UN is going to invade the US and enslave everyone who are going to be totally okay with a gender transition, so don't jump to any conclusions. We all know from recent threads and news articles that feminists and lesbians who I would probably never call conservatives have big problems with trans people and these are supposed to be mega super liberals. So I would never judge a book by it's cover.
Look at Del for a moment. He may not support trans people but he has never said a bad thing to anyone on here. In fact I think a lot of his points of view are downright tolerant. We may differ completely on religion and the meaning of life, but I don't think you will find a lot of people who would agree on alot of things anyways. I don't even know him at all, but if I were invited to a backyard barbeque I would go :)
Quote from: Shantel on January 18, 2013, 12:14:33 PM
On the other hand I am disgusted and equally repulsed at the piling on, feeding frenzy and anti-Christian rhetoric of non believers within the GLBTI community, who would expect to be accepted by all, preferring to consider themselves unbiased and accepting while serving up a load of hypocritical crap!
Well, I don't think that people have a problem with Christianity so much as the specific individuals who force it upon others and try to interfere with democratic governmental processes. I for one am not biased. I identify as female, but disagree with a lot of what American feminists say.
If being mad at the people who victimize your demographic is wrong, then African slaves, Latin American colonists, and others who were raped, beaten, and murdered for no other reason than baseless discrimination didn't have a leg to stand on. ???
____________________________________________________________________________________________
As for what I think, I prefer to have faith in people. Don't take any preventative action or engage in any conflict until this lady proves that she can't be accepting. After all, my dad is Catholic, and he accepts me, despite disagreeing.
If she proves to be a problem, take it up with your boss or a lawyer, as necessary.
Remember that people should be viewed in a positive light until they prove that they don't deserve to be.
Kia Ora,
Now I'm not trying to be sarcastic, nor attacking Del's beliefs in any way, but Del are you here for some kind of 'penance' [I think that's the right word] which involves the practice of tolerance and acceptance of difference or are you here to try and save [what you feel are] a few lost souls ? Or perhaps are you just here to find out how trans-people tick...
I should point out, I think it's good that you are here and no doubt, for people like myself, I can also learn a lot about what it is that makes you tick...
So I for one am thankful for your input...
PS: My apologies MoO, for going slightly off track....
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: AlexD on January 18, 2013, 05:14:42 PM
Attempting to change the views of an extremist almost never works. Their beliefs are just too heavily tied up in their identity, so trying to change them will only make your opponent defend their beliefs even more staunchly. I'm afraid this lady sounds like a lost cause on the change-her-views front... but I do think that if she's as nice as MaidofOrleans says she is, then a change of beliefs won't be necessary for her to remain civil.
Do you mean belifs as in religion? for me that isnt important, People can have whatever religion they have, christian, muslim, budism, and still be friendly of each other including GLBT folks.
I often hear people who say things I feel offensive for me, I know the only way I can try to change there view is to be critizism about it, asking them why they think so and why I think otherwise to let them think twice to be sure if thats what they really deeply mean or what they just say cause they never thought about it as well I would try to understand why they feel as they do.
this might not help but its the only thing you can do exept to just give up which I also somethimes do, But if you care enough about people then I wont just give up without a try, neither will lying or hidding hold on forever.
Quote from: Natkat on January 19, 2013, 07:51:12 AM
I often hear people who say things I feel offensive for me, I know the only way I can try to change there view is to be critizism about it, asking them why they think so and why I think otherwise to let them think twice to be sure if thats what they really deeply mean or what they just say cause they never thought about it as well I would try to understand why they feel as they do.
I agree. There is a difference between beliefs and ignorance.
For example, if someone understands that transgender people don't have a choice to be the way we are but still believes that dressing as our true gender is wrong, I'm never going to change that belief.
OTOH if someone mistakenly understands that we choose to be transgender or that it can be "cured", it may be possible to educate that person.
It's clear a lot of you have strong feelings on the subject both ways, if I offended anyone i'm sorry you feel that way, but I wont retract anything I said because I stand by it. I'm not saying all Christians or all conservatives are crazy, i'm saying her particular Christian and conservative views are crazy.
The country is very divided right now. People take any attack on a person with similar beliefs as an attack on themselves. It's obvious that even within our little trans community there is serious division over social and economic issues. The kinds of blatant lies and illogical conspiracy theories some people buy into is frightening and so are people that in the 21st century still believe iron age myths to be actual fact. I'm a fairly middle of the road person and I try to take a logical and reasonable stance on everything, I don't like extremists and I think their views on both sides of the political spectrum are dangerous, right or left.
Standing up for trans equality does not mean i'm a hypocrite for standing against insanity. I do not believe transgender people are a danger to society and people. I do believe that much of the hateful and downright crazy rhetoric from the religious and political extremists around the world is incredibly dangerous. Denying their ability to spread their lies and educating the public against them is a lifetime goal of mine. If I can save one person from suffering persecution and hatred then I've done my job. Call it un-american or un-constitutional I don't care, I don't stand up for the rights of others to spread such vitriol that has caused people like me to suffer for so long.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on January 19, 2013, 12:24:22 PM
It's clear a lot of you have strong feelings on the subject both ways, if I offended anyone i'm sorry you feel that way, but I wont retract anything I said because I stand by it. I'm not saying all Christians or all conservatives are crazy, i'm saying her particular Christian and conservative views are crazy.
I don't think you offended anyone hon, I'm sure that you have a good point about that woman being way over the top with her comments and attitudes. I prefer it when we (meaning all of us) are careful not to paint people with a broad brush, because there are some really nice folks in every group regardless of whether or not we agree with their belief system. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out in your workplace as time goes by. Be sure and give an update!
Shantel, I think we know that. Look at Annah or Shawn. Two transgender Christians. :P
*raises hand* ;D
Quote from: Natkat on January 19, 2013, 07:51:12 AM
Do you mean belifs as in religion? for me that isnt important, People can have whatever religion they have, christian, muslim, budism, and still be friendly of each other including GLBT folks.
I often hear people who say things I feel offensive for me, I know the only way I can try to change there view is to be critizism about it, asking them why they think so and why I think otherwise to let them think twice to be sure if thats what they really deeply mean or what they just say cause they never thought about it as well I would try to understand why they feel as they do.
this might not help but its the only thing you can do exept to just give up which I also somethimes do, But if you care enough about people then I wont just give up without a try, neither will lying or hidding hold on forever.
Hmm. That's a good question.
I was referring to
any strong belief a person might hold, regardless of how religious it is or even how true or real it is. Religion (and atheism!) and politics lend themselves particularly well to this kind of thinking, since it involves a group of people who all believe in the same thing that can't be definitively proven, and I think it's very easy to build an identity around that, but it applies to any strong belief -- even our beliefs about transpeople. Once a belief gets tied up in your identity it makes it very difficult to want to listen when other people try to encourage you to entertain alternative ways of looking at things. In my experience, trying to argue with people like this is just not worth the effort -- the more you argue with them, the more strongly they cling to their own beliefs.
I suppose I shouldn't have implied that it's
wrong to try and change someone's beliefs if you truly think they're wrong or damaging; the trouble is, they're thinking the same thing about you, and probably aren't likely to give up on you any more than you are on them. It just leads to an exhausting argument with no end.
I had a evangelical co-worker like that. He told me his pastor could get that demon out of me.... I declined. After the first few weeks it was no big deal and things got back to normal....
From what I've seen... they won't judge you to your face. You know what that means....
Quote from: Ms.Behavin on January 19, 2013, 05:59:36 PM
I had a evangelical co-worker like that. He told me his pastor could get that demon out of me... I declined. After the first few weeks it was no big deal and things got back to normal....
Kia Ora Ms B,
::) 'Possession' is nine-tenths of the law ;)
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: DianaP on January 19, 2013, 01:02:00 PM
Shantel, I think we know that. Look at Annah or Shawn. Two transgender Christians. :P
I'm also born christian so 3. :P
Quote from: AlexD on January 19, 2013, 03:05:40 PM
I suppose I shouldn't have implied that it's wrong to try and change someone's beliefs if you truly think they're wrong or damaging; the trouble is, they're thinking the same thing about you, and probably aren't likely to give up on you any more than you are on them. It just leads to an exhausting argument with no end.
Yes, unfortunately we are living in an extremely polarized society where people are unable to think outside of their own box that they have created in their own minds and are constrained by their refusal to consider that there even might be a bigger picture outside of their narrow views.