why are guys so pushy? i mean i really thought these last 3 guys were nice but each one was more of a dog than the last. with the final one forcing himself on me and going way to far. its really making me want to never date and stay by myself. i just really dont like being treated like a piece of meat.
By the sounds of it you've just had the true female experience. Why do you think women are cautious around guys?! It's something that shape women from the moment of puberty...
As to why they do it?! I personally blame testoterone oh and a sence on entitlement.
May I recommend http://www.amazon.com/ESEE-6-Removable-Micarta-Handles-Carbon/dp/B005G2G2SQ/ref=sr_1_8?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1359226235&sr=1-8&keywords=esee+knives (http://www.amazon.com/ESEE-6-Removable-Micarta-Handles-Carbon/dp/B005G2G2SQ/ref=sr_1_8?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1359226235&sr=1-8&keywords=esee+knives)?
Nothing to put a guy off trying something than a well-armed girl. :D
Bonus points if you leave it hanging somewhere prominent.
I used to worry about my exroommate (a very gorgeous mtf) ALL THE TIME because all kinds of idiots were always forcing themselves on her. Be careful.
Quote from: Tristan on January 26, 2013, 01:06:47 PM
im trying to. my girlfriends have decided to screen the guys or something before i am aloud to go out with them. apparently im innocent because i had never been on a date before that or kissed and theirs rules and signs i must learn. i had no idea that when he invited me over to his house to watch a movie it would turn into him stealing first second and almost 3rd base. his hands were everywhere. i guess you cant just truest guys.
Don't mean to put you on the spot, but since experience in dating is pretty much nonexistent, I'd definitely not go anywhere secluded with strangers. And take things veeeeeeery slow. :)
I've never dated a guy before, but I do know you do not give them home field advantage at the getgo.
Now you're just generalizing. Not all guys are dogs, pigs or A-holes. I mean, how about the guys on this forum? you're basically telling them that they're A-holes and dogs too. And I don't appreciate you saying that in essence, my son will grow up to be an A-hole too. There are just as many women out there that will make you wonder "WTF" about women too.
You just don't have the experiences in dating to learn to pick the bad boys from good guys. That will come with time and observational help from your girlfriends. ;)
Well, I don't think that all guys are pigs. I agree with Keaira in the sense that us inexperienced people won't be able to get the cues, which is why I honestly don't find myself fond of the idea of starting to date. Not worth the risk. :P
Anyway, I think you may be hanging with the wrong crowd. I may not have experience, but my brain is telling me that if a guy invites you over to his place after meeting you for the first time instead of just giving you a phone number and a rough idea of when you can next meet IN PUBLIC, then he is most likely after only one thing: sex.
Some guys are amazing and nice and always respectful, others... Listen to your friends, cause I believe you can stay out of a lot of trouble if you can read the signs. Maybe not all the trouble though if you get unlucky. Be safe!
He sounds like a prick. :(
Quote from: Tristan on January 26, 2013, 07:08:56 PM
Well Tessa I went from never being kissed to kissed. Frenched. Being felt up top and down bottom and finally I got him to stop after pushing him AMD crying.
Wow :(
The guy was a prick, nothing to it. I have dated one man who was pushy and he is now my ex [after we had been engaged]. My ex was just a prick who didn't understand that I don't like sex a that sometimes even trying to have sex is a horrible feeling to me. But he kept pushing and I would cave because I felt guilty because of how his view of sex was. I also had a guy try to force himself on me when I was in high school. However, I know not all guys are like my prick of an ex or the guy from high school. Some guys actually care and don't want to push sex on anyone, but it takes experience and listening to friends to find that kind of person.
I know I'm definitely not pushy for sex. I wouldn't dream of pushing a female or a male to have intercourse with me. Partially because I don't like it and partially because it is rude and something that, in my opinion, is just plain wrong.
It'll just take experience and being careful and learning from your experiences to find the guys that are willing to be nice and willing to be patient.
I usually don't generalize people but in my experience cis women are not hard to get into bed. With a lot of guys I don't think they're trying to be pushy, it's just what has come to be expected. Yes, I know how wrong that may sound but it's not a sexist thing. It's just a "that's what a lot of guys have become accustomed to" sort of thing. There are A LOT of sexually aggressive women now a days.
Guys aren't mind readers and it is important for a woman to let her boundaries be known before it gets uncomfortable for either person. A simple "I really like you, but I'd like to get to know you better without any physical expectations" is better to hear than someone getting upset when limitations weren't known.
Then again my gf says I'm like an octopus when the mood strikes. She says she swears I have extra arms and hands everywhere, lol. Having to tell a man no doesn't mean he's a prick. He only deserves that connotation assigned to him when he doesn't take no for an answer.
...but expect a little sulking. I've been with my gf almost nine years and when I get the firm "NO" I still pout. :laugh:
Idk. What she described sounded very aggressive. Guys need to be gentle and more respectful than that with women imo, especially when they haven't even kissed before. Even when a woman comes into your house, I think it's a dangerous attitude to assume she wants sex and just force youself all over her. Yes he stopped when she started to cry, that just means he's a huge jerk instead of a felon imo.
Quote from: Simon on January 26, 2013, 08:38:52 PM
Guys aren't mind readers and it is important for a woman to let her boundaries be known before it gets uncomfortable for either person. A simple "I really like you, but I'd like to get to know you better without any physical expectations" is better to hear than someone getting upset when limitations weren't known.
I get your point, and I can see where you're coming from. However...
Quote from: Tristan on January 26, 2013, 07:08:56 PM
I went from never being kissed to kissed. Frenched. Being felt up top and down bottom and finally I got him to stop after pushing him AMD crying.
Sounds a bit TOO pushy to me. Any guy who does that right off of the bat is suspicious by my standards. :icon_suspicious:
The touchy, feely, grabby guys are the ones who turn me off the quickest. Especially when such physical contact was unsolicited on my part and surprisingly enough sometimes takes place on the first date. WTF? First unwanted touch gets you a verbal warning from me, second unsolicited touch gets you a choke hold from me. They usually stop after that.
:)
OMG what an arsehole!
Hey Tristan,
It's so funny that you posted this because I was getting ready to send you a pm asking you if something happened based on a comment you made in another thread, but here's this thread.
The thing I think is important to remember is that it's ok to trust guys, but they need to jump through some hoops before they get the honor and privilege of laying their mittens on you :) That's how you have to look at yourself. "I am an awesome catch to an awesome guy who will treat me with the respect and move at speeds I'm comfortable with." The thing about guys, I think, is that they are going to move as fast as you let them. So if they feel like you are sending signals that say "full speed ahead" they will go fast. If you are cautious, they'll move at your speed. You don't have to be like mean to them or anything, you can totally do it in a joking but honest way.
Like let's say he asks you out, make it a public place for the first 2-3 dates. Start with like coffee or something, something at a little cheap cafe that doesn't serve elaborate food. That reinforces the notion that you are careful and not placing expectations on the date. For the second date, keep it public still, but maybe make it lunch at some place like Cheesecake Factory or something, daytime...public. After the second date, how do you feel about him? Is he awesome? Good conversation? Are you attracted to him physically? Or THOSE buttons being pushed inside you? Is he the kind of guy you are looking for? If the answer is YES YES YES then move to date three.
Make date three maybe dinner at a decent place. At this point, if you are feeling it, then you start going with what you are comfortable with. I'd leave the movie at his house out of the equation until like date 4+ just so you get a good feeling about him. Also, getting into physical stuff early, like date one, sends a message that you are ready to be physical. The hard thing for a lot of guys, and I think this is true but I'm still figuring it out like you are, is that if you start making out, they want to take it further and further.
One thing my own experience living pre-transition didn't prepare me for and this applies to almost all of us I would imagine, is that we CAN'T base our experience with guys on our own experience with girls or guys pre-transition. The way I treated girls pre-transition was partly because I wasn't attracted to them like they thought, but also because I wasn't dealing with impulses where I HAD to get them into bed. I think quite a few guys have this thing where like once you get them going, they get frustrated, angry, upset, etc. if you pull back. That happened with one guy I was with pre-op, post-transition, where he got frustrated because we were making out and then he started getting wandering hands and I was ok with a little bit but when he went for the front of my jeans, I was like "ohhhh, noooo, we aren't going there."
Sorry for writing a book! You really caught me when all these things are on my mind. So don't be so rigid that you don't date, but go sloooowly even if you body and heart are like "I NEED THIS GUY RIGHT NOW!!!" He'll respect you and know your boundaries early on if you go slow. Tristan, you body is a temple and only the best, most respectful guys will get to enter it, you know? No kissing until he proves he can behave and that you have a connection.
The other difficulty with this is that in your heart (I'm like this, I think you might be, don't want to jump to conclusions!) you are looking for that special guy and you don't want to let a potential down if you really like him. It's this balancing act of giving him just enough of what he's looking for to keep him interested, but not giving everything away right up front. Try to remember that; he wants certain things, you want certain things, you both have to be patient and move slowly to ensure you are both on the same page.
Best of luck, I'm right there with you. Date #2 today with this guy I like :) Meghan
Quote from: Tristan on January 26, 2013, 11:01:30 AM
why are guys so pushy? i mean i really thought these last 3 guys were nice but each one was more of a dog than the last. with the final one forcing himself on me and going way to far. its really making me want to never date and stay by myself. i just really dont like being treated like a piece of meat.
Oh gods, I'm so sorry that happened to you. That's horrible!
I hope I'm not intruding by posting here, I just saw the post and was shocked at those guys' behaviour. I hope you find someone really nice who treats you with the respect you deserve. I promise you, not all guys are bad ones.
I watched Jannie date a bunch of guys over the years. She even moved to Detroit for one. He turned out to be abusive scum. She ended up staying at a homeless shelter for a while because of him. So, yes. Guy's can be real ->-bleeped-<-s, but they dont all come from the same mold.
If I were to date again, I already have my man picked out. And I know he isn't a Jerk or A-hole. In fact he's quite the opposite. Sweet, caring, funny and smart..... He's really awesome.
Quote from: Keaira on January 27, 2013, 12:58:50 PM
If I were to date again, I already have my man picked out. And I know he isn't a Jerk or A-hole. In fact he's quite the opposite. Sweet, caring, funny and smart..... He's really awesome.
What you waiting for?!
I read this thread yesterday but wasn't entirely sure what to say. I'm sorry that this happened to you. :( I've never dated guys, but I remember when I was young and believed I would have to. I was afraid of a guy pressuring me into something I wouldn't want to do, never mind having someone push himself on me. And the fact that I'd never been with a guy made the prospect even more scary, not that it isn't horrible when it happens to anyone.
I think what others have said about not having experience (as opposed to your girl friends) has some truth, but I'd like to add that sometimes you can just never know. It is NOT your fault for being inexperienced with dating, it's entirely on the guy who felt like he deserved to push himself on you without checking your comfort level and readiness.
You deserve much better and I hope you don't have to go through that again to find someone, male or female, who treats you with the respect that you deserve.
Tristan, we'll be here for you when you need it :)
Quote from: MeghanAndrews on January 27, 2013, 10:16:53 AM
One thing my own experience living pre-transition didn't prepare me for and this applies to almost all of us I would imagine, is that we CAN'T base our experience with guys on our own experience with girls or guys pre-transition.
This is actually really insightful. I think I may judge guys (at least in a romantic or sexual context) harshly based upon my own behavior - which was admittedly pretty awful. I believe all guys are like me even if they're the opposite. Like I'm totally suspicious of sweet, gentle guys. Or maybe I am right - and they are what I'm thinking?
EDIT: Oh I should add that I'm not a jerk with women. Only other guys.
Quote from: RachelH on January 27, 2013, 01:09:16 PM
What you waiting for?!
I don't want to ruin his life. and he deserves someone so much better than I.
Quote from: Keaira on January 28, 2013, 04:49:33 AM
I don't want to ruin his life. and he deserves someone so much better than I.
*Smack*
Girl, hush! Drop that self-deprecating gig and go for it! :P
Quote from: DianaP on January 28, 2013, 04:57:49 AM
Quote from: Keaira on January 28, 2013, 04:49:33 AM
I don't want to ruin his life. and he deserves someone so much better than I.
*Smack*
Girl, hush! Drop that self-deprecating gig and go for it! :P
That's what I'm saying! If the banter back and forth on this board is any indication, you best snatch that up girl!
lol. Thanks guys and girls. But he really does deserve a girl who loves him just as much as I do, right now, with Jannie gone, I'm in a bad place.
Quote from: Tristan on January 27, 2013, 11:00:31 AM
thank you. Im going to try again at some point but right now im just to scared about what could happen.
That's understandable. Take care of yourself, dear.
Quote from: Tristan on January 27, 2013, 09:42:04 AM
yeah i am listening to my girlfriends from now on. he text me last night just after midnight while he was at a bar with another girl. i told him i didnt want to see him anymore. he started calling me a slut and saying i deserved what i got for coming over to his place. so yeah...lesson learned. thank goodness for friends and hypnotic and other drinks. he was just bad news.
He called you a slut after not sleeping with him! Seriously!!!that word gets thrown around way too much theses days. Just cause you step in his house don't give him the right to put his hands all over you. I'm glad you stood your ground with this pig!!! I'm sorry you had to put up with this. They are a whole lot better men out there for you don't give up.
Yeah, he is definitely scum. Sort of knew that beforehand but the phone call definitely confirms it. I feel sorry for the other girls he will encounter, I really do.
Quote from: Caleb. on January 28, 2013, 01:29:13 PM
Yeah, he is definitely scum. Sort of knew that beforehand but the phone call definitely confirms it. I feel sorry for the other girls he will encounter, I really do.
Definitely. My Mum had problems with scum guys after she got divorced. She still hasn't remarried. But I remember one boyfriend broke into our house after an argument. he smashed in our front door. I tried to call the cops but he violently tried to stop me. I wont go into details but he lost and has a long scar on his forearm and on his side to remind him to never even try to hit a lady.
Quote from: Keaira on January 29, 2013, 02:54:11 AM
Quote from: Caleb. on January 28, 2013, 01:29:13 PM
Yeah, he is definitely scum. Sort of knew that beforehand but the phone call definitely confirms it. I feel sorry for the other girls he will encounter, I really do.
Definitely. My Mum had problems with scum guys after she got divorced. She still hasn't remarried. But I remember one boyfriend broke into our house after an argument. he smashed in our front door. I tried to call the cops but he violently tried to stop me. I wont go into details but he lost and has a long scar on his forearm and on his side to remind him to never even try to hit a lady.
Go Keaira! I was fiercely protective of my mom after her divorce too. Thank god no one ever tried to lay a hand on her.
Quote from: Tristan on January 29, 2013, 01:13:45 PM
its ok. i will find a good fella at some point. happy thoughts. my sorority sisters really helped me through this. sucks that stuff like this can hurt you.
I'm glad you had people around you to help. Although it hurts when someone betrays your trust, you are stronger than you know. You are more than your suffering, you can overcome. However, this may be a good opportunity to get more confident and settled in yourself, without referring to someone else.
Big hugs, sister. xx
Wow Tristan
I wish I could have talked to you before this went down. It is overwhelming dealing with guys, especially in your case not having much experience. One thing I learned while I was like 16 is that you have to be very assertive with certain guys upfront. Some are pigs and you have to check them before they get a chance to disrespect you. It's better to perceived as somewhat of a b*tch than a easy target. But yea going over their house without rules being set prior is a no no. I'd say to just feel your way around next time. Talk to them and try to get a sense of what their intentions are.
Quote from: Tristan on February 02, 2013, 11:21:00 AM
yeah im not doing that anymore. it has made me come out of my shell some though. since that happened i have had some guys ask me out and i have 5 dates set up. im going to make sure im in charge when it comes to whats ok with kissing and sex an stuff. i think i may have figured some of this stuff out now :)
I hope your future dates treat you way better, sweetie.