I'm a fairly average smoker, I smoke around 12-14 a day.
I've been wondering for a while if smoking will negatively affect me when I start HRT?
I'm sure that my GP will try and convince me to quit anyway, but I don't really want to quit unless it will cause serious problems with my transition later down the road.
Dying of lung cancer will ruin anyone's transition, hon. Quit smoking. Hugs, Devlyn
Smoking and alcohol are big no-no's on HRT. Let the E take the place of the nicotine.
I wouldn't worry about lung cancer if you smoke while on hrt. The highly increased risk for blood clots I would worry about. Just quit.
Some(not all) Doctors may not prescribe HRT while smoking,I have heard of this in the UK.Quit smoking,you will feel better and be better off.
As a smoker, I know how hard it is to quit. I have tried many times. Not just for HRT, but for my health in general. Blood clots are your major problem. Both Estrogen and smoking can cause those clots.
Quitting now is your best better. I am on day 5 without a cigarette. I am using those e-cigarettes. Yes I still get nicotine, but all the rest of the bad stuff Is no longer entering my body.
Quote from: Ms. OBrien VT on February 05, 2013, 04:47:52 PM
As a smoker, I know how hard it is to quit. I have tried many times. Not just for HRT, but for my health in general. Blood clots are your major problem. Both Estrogen and smoking can cause those clots.
Quitting now is your best better. I am on day 5 without a cigarette. I am using those e-cigarettes. Yes I still get nicotine, but all the rest of the bad stuff Is no longer entering my body.
Be careful with the e-cigarettes, you may actually be smoking the same amount as you would with real cigarettes. The reason I say this is because you can't really measure how much nicotine you are taking in with an e cigarette. In effect it would be ALMOST the same as what you used to smoke.
Personally if I ever became addicted to cigarettes I would try cutting down how many you smoke by one a day. That way quitting is gradual instead of an absolute shock to your body.
Disclaimer- I'm not trying to tell you how to live your life; I just thought I would share what I know. I smoke off and on, but not much (a cigarette every day or every three days).
Smoking and estrogen don't mix. I really suggest you quit I use to smoke I quit 4 years ago. It was the best thing I did for myself beside transitioning and losing a whole lot of weight nether of which would have been possible if I had not quit smoking. I could list all the bad things smoking does to you. But you probably have all ready heard all that before. But I will say since quitting my life has never been better. :)
Quote from: Ms. OBrien VT on February 05, 2013, 04:47:52 PM
Quitting now is your best better. I am on day 5 without a cigarette. I am using those e-cigarettes. Yes I still get nicotine, but all the rest of the bad stuff Is no longer entering my body.
I tried E-cigarettes for a while, but I didn't enjoy them as much as normal cigarettes. The taste wasn't quite the same, and it never felt the same as smoke, also, I got fed up of running out of power and having to wait a while for it to recharge.
Thanks for starting this thread.
I also smoke. I am not happy about that fact and I've been putting off quitting for far too long.
I'm still researching HRT and was not aware of how significantly the risk of clotting would be increased, although I did note it as a risk and knew I'd be needing to quit at some point.
And while the thought of going through the process of quitting is not particularly pleasant, I'm actually kind of glad to see this. I've been smoking too much for too long and I needed that little extra push to motivate me to do something about it.
Another reason to quit: smoking will seriously mess up healing from any surgery.
My therapist was unwilling to refer me for hormones until I quit.. My gyno was clear that she would not prescribe hormones unless I had quit..
The way it was put to me, is that E will increase your clotting risk.. Smoking increases you clotting risk - combine the 2 and you are looking at a level of risk that is too high for any sane person..
I'm going to quote what I said in May last year in another similar thread:
Quote from: luna nyan on May 16, 2012, 05:47:34 AM
My 2 cents:
Smoking:
1. As far as affecting the effectiveness on HRT, I would agree that it is unlikely to really affect HRT effects.
2. As far as affecting the chances of success with any GRS surgery - the general statistic on post operative infection rates on smokers is about 7-8 times greater than normal. The main reason is that smoking decreases the oxygenation levels in the blood stream. Less oxygenated blood, less healing, higher rate of graft failure, higher rates of infection. I was told that in dental surgery - smoking on the day or within 24 hours of having a tooth out, you would increase the chances of a dry socket by a factor of at least 3.
Marijuana:
I'm not so sure about the effects of marijuana - I haven't really read any proper studies on its effects.
I'm glad you're showing concern about the effects of these habits on your health - I would suggest trying to work out the triggers that make you want to smoke and find a way to counter them. Good support is going to help you as well. I know a few people who have quit over the years, and say to me that they could pick up a cigarette and not think twice about puffing but because they have good support around them they don't.
The other thing is, if you are disciplined enough to save the cash you don't spend on smoking, think about all the transition costs that money can go towards. =)
Don't know about smoking and if it affects or not to HRT, but here at least you _have to_ stop, before GRS. That's mandatory. The doctors wont let you allow ruin their perfect operation record with smoking and thus destroying the blood flow on skin. I would really presume, that smoking does affect on some levels to HRT results, as smoking affects to your skin.
I stopped smoking Christmas Eve 2012. Easiest thing that I've done in my life really. The only thing that made me to stop, was that I realized that much of my dysphoria is related to the skin of this body and smoking definitely is not going to fix the skin, just making it worse.
A comment. Modified for privacy reasons, but it was from an eminent endocrinologist whose advice was sort for a transwoman who smokes and was having E dosage problems.
If you prescribe oestrogen to a transwoman who smokes cigarettes you may be legally regarded as being implicit in her deathwish.
You should consider linking a refusal to give scripts to the smoking habit.
Pretty basic!
Quote from: Sky-Blue on February 05, 2013, 04:56:24 PM
Be careful with the e-cigarettes, you may actually be smoking the same amount as you would with real cigarettes. The reason I say this is because you can't really measure how much nicotine you are taking in with an e cigarette. In effect it would be ALMOST the same as what you used to smoke.
Personally if I ever became addicted to cigarettes I would try cutting down how many you smoke by one a day. That way quitting is gradual instead of an absolute shock to your body.
Disclaimer- I'm not trying to tell you how to live your life; I just thought I would share what I know. I smoke off and on, but not much (a cigarette every day or every three days).
You know on the whole the actual nicotine in the cigarettes are only what makes them so wonderfully addictive, it's not what makes them so wonderfully deadly. And I don't know about other parts of the world, but here in Australia the tobacco companies aren't legally allowed to give a nicotine estimate in smokes anyway.
Quote from: Cindy James on February 06, 2013, 04:50:50 AM
A comment. Modified for privacy reasons, but it was from an eminent endocrinologist whose advice was sort for a transwoman who smokes and was having E dosage problems.
If you prescribe oestrogen to a transwoman who smokes cigarettes you may be legally regarded as being implicit in her deathwish.
You should consider linking a refusal to give scripts to the smoking habit.
Pretty basic!
What a wonderful world we live in. So you would be ok with doctors denying me the right to live as who I am because I smoke because they're too spineless to accept that I'm an adult and have the right to take the risk if I want too.
This is why I so rarely post here anymore, every time I do I see some infuriating "we need to baby people because there are no adults, just the qualified who make the decisions for the unqualified" comment.
Nicotine forces the body into overdrive, essentially making the entire nervous system flip to 100%. Almost all of what you hear from the government about smoking is propaganda; the only real truth is that you are more likely to die of a heart related disease than cancer. Imagine your heart having to spontaneously start beating very fast 20-40 times a day (depending on how much you smoke), it's not much different from being shocked in the chest.
Check out the anti smoking propaganda articles on sites like forces.org and smokingoutthetruth. Or just google, "Anti smoking propaganda".
I don't claim that smoking isn't bad, it's just not as bad as they make it out to be when it's done in small quantities.
I have tried quitting, cant do it. My Endo gave me my scripts if I promised to cut back alot. So I kept my word and have been keeping it to one in the morning, one at lunch, and one at dinner. If I feel the need to cheat. He gave me a box of nicotine gum. been 6 1/2 months and I im on full doses. at the end of the month, ill be dropping the meal cigs month by month, till im a non smoker. quitting over time works better for me.
but yeah, E+smoking = not good. throw spiro on top of it, and you might as well start digging.
Quote from: Asfsd4214 on February 07, 2013, 09:11:08 AM
You know on the whole the actual nicotine in the cigarettes are only what makes them so wonderfully addictive, it's not what makes them so wonderfully deadly. And I don't know about other parts of the world, but here in Australia the tobacco companies aren't legally allowed to give a nicotine estimate in smokes anyway.
What a wonderful world we live in. So you would be ok with doctors denying me the right to live as who I am because I smoke because they're too spineless to accept that I'm an adult and have the right to take the risk if I want too.
This is why I so rarely post here anymore, every time I do I see some infuriating "we need to baby people because there are no adults, just the qualified who make the decisions for the unqualified" comment.
You mistake me. I really don't care what you do, if you wish to smoke, do so, it isn't against the law. But legally a medic should not prescribe a drug regime that will lead to harm and increase the chance of death unless there are circumstances to allow it (chemo in cancer etc). Otherwise
they may be legally implicit in
your deathwish.
I suppose one could have a view that if you are too spineless to give up smoking to live as the person you wish to be, then that is your problem to deal with.
QuoteI suppose one could have a view that if you are too spineless to give up smoking to live as the person you wish to be, then that is your problem to deal with.
Perhaps you could clarify your intent a bit because your hypothetical (if it is one) comes off as a bit rude and possibly triggering a response.
Quote from: Sky-Blue on February 07, 2013, 05:09:14 PM
Perhaps you could clarify your intent a bit because your hypothetical (if it is one) comes off as a bit rude and possibly triggering a response.
Quoted from Asfsd4214
"What a wonderful world we live in. So you would be ok with doctors denying me the right to live as who I am because I smoke because
they're too spineless to accept that I'm an adult and have the right to take the risk if I want too."
My highlight.
IMO people need to be responsible for their own health and safety. If people wish to blame medics for 'being spineless' by refusing treatment that may lead to health damage because a person refuses to stop smoking. Then maybe they should look at there own behaviour and 'are too spineless to give up smoking to live as the person you wish to be, then that is your problem to deal with.' (sic)
I intend no judgement, I'm just using the words of the poster. :embarrassed:
Quote from: Cindy James on February 07, 2013, 04:54:05 PM
You mistake me. I really don't care what you do, if you wish to smoke, do so, it isn't against the law. But legally a medic should not prescribe a drug regime that will lead to harm and increase the chance of death unless there are circumstances to allow it (chemo in cancer etc). Otherwise they may be legally implicit in your deathwish.
I suppose one could have a view that if you are too spineless to give up smoking to live as the person you wish to be, then that is your problem to deal with.
One could, if one were ultimately of the view that adults are only children as you appear too.
If a medico can't do it then those drugs should not be under their control, or the law should not hold them responsible. I have a right to exist as who I am. And for someone like you to say that as someone who's transgender I don't have the same rights as other people, only serves to prove to me how profoundly broken and backwards the community that exists supposedly to help and support people like me really is.
Exactly why I continue to completely ignore transgender issues in real life, because our community is the source of most of our problems. To me it is absolutely disgusting to think that someone like yourself thinks I should be denied HRT because I exercise my right to smoke.
The small minded are those who always defend the status quo, and always seek to control others. It's not about my desire or lack of to give up smoking, it's about my rights as an adult to elect what risks I wish to take.
Quote from: Sky-Blue on February 07, 2013, 11:19:58 AM
Nicotine forces the body into overdrive, essentially making the entire nervous system flip to 100%. Almost all of what you hear from the government about smoking is propaganda; the only real truth is that you are more likely to die of a heart related disease than cancer. Imagine your heart having to spontaneously start beating very fast 20-40 times a day (depending on how much you smoke), it's not much different from being shocked in the chest.
Check out the anti smoking propaganda articles on sites like forces.org and smokingoutthetruth. Or just google, "Anti smoking propaganda".
I don't claim that smoking isn't bad, it's just not as bad as they make it out to be when it's done in small quantities.
Almost all of what you hear from the government about almost anything is propaganda. I don't dispute your claim that smoking, even nicotine alone, is likely to increase your risk of heart problems. Virtually all stimulant drugs do to some extent. I would dispute that nicotine in isolation is a particularly strong stimulant though. On the whole though I agree with your post.
QuoteI don't dispute your claim that smoking, even nicotine alone, is likely to increase your risk of heart problems. Virtually all stimulant drugs do to some extent. I would dispute that nicotine in isolation is a particularly strong stimulant though.
Interesting thought, maybe we could start a thread about it. I've never thought of it that way before, but it makes sense. The majority of people are caffeine addicts (which does almost the same as nicotine), the only difference I can see is the delivery mechanism. I would argue that caffeine is just as powerful, it's just that everyone uses it so they aren't nearly as affected by it.
In reality, smoking in moderation is no different (in terms of the actual drug effects) than drinking coffee in moderation. It's just the delivery mechanism of smoking that makes it more dangerous.
Quote from: Teela Renee on February 07, 2013, 12:02:39 PM
I have tried quitting, cant do it. My Endo gave me my scripts if I promised to cut back alot. So I kept my word and have been keeping it to one in the morning, one at lunch, and one at dinner. If I feel the need to cheat. He gave me a box of nicotine gum. been 6 1/2 months and I im on full doses. at the end of the month, ill be dropping the meal cigs month by month, till im a non smoker. quitting over time works better for me.
but yeah, E+smoking = not good. throw spiro on top of it, and you might as well start digging.
Teela, when you are down to just three per day, you can really just give them up.
I firmly believe that if a person wants to smoke cigarettes, or pipes, or cigars, and they are not annoying anyone else by doing it, so be it.
But when you die of a smoking-related disease, like my mom did, unless you are totally alone in the world, you are going to be hurting others. And I can tell you, that pain never never goes away. I watched my mom go through operations to have tumors removed from her lungs, her kidney, and her liver, as well as other tumors that formed next to her aorta. It got to the point where, after having much of one lung removed and one kidney removed, when the tumors came back, that was it. Hospice.
Having a cancerous tumor grow in your remaining lung, slowly suffocating you, and having a machine have to clean you blood every few days, is no way to go. And the incredible pain that goes along with it, so much pain that morphine just barely works. And the indignity of having to use a bed pan, when you conscious, and to be cleaned up when you are not.
Not a pretty sight. Yeah, my mom enjoyed smoking for nearly 50 years (she still begged for cigarettes on her deathbed), but the last 12 years of suffering was hardly worth it. And the nightmare she left her husband and kids and grandkids wasn't worth it either.
Quote from: Cindy James on February 07, 2013, 06:24:10 PM
Quoted from Asfsd4214
"What a wonderful world we live in. So you would be ok with doctors denying me the right to live as who I am because I smoke because they're too spineless to accept that I'm an adult and have the right to take the risk if I want too."
My highlight.
IMO people need to be responsible for their own health and safety. If people wish to blame medics for 'being spineless' by refusing treatment that may lead to health damage because a person refuses to stop smoking. Then maybe they should look at there own behaviour and 'are too spineless to give up smoking to live as the person you wish to be, then that is your problem to deal with.' (sic)
I intend no judgement, I'm just using the words of the poster. :embarrassed:
Ah I see what you mean...but I only agree with you if you are referring to people that smoke heavily (more than say 1-2 cigarettes a day). At a certain point the body cannot heal itself decently.
If you truly mean what you said I can give you another hypothetical...
Say for instance someone wants hrt, but they are a caffeine addict/heavy user. This puts more stress on their heart/nervous system and thus would make it more dangerous start hrt.
Would you say that they should be allowed hrt? Why yes/no?
Now for the second hypothetical...
Say for instance a person wants hrt and they use caffeine in moderation (a cup of coffee/coca cola etc.). Thus their risk of heart disease etc. is slightly higher than a non-caffeine user.
Would you say that they should be allowed hrt? Why yes/no?
*I should note that both caffeine and nicotine are stimulants, and when used for the first time, they affect the nervous system in the same amount and way.
Quote from: Asfsd4214 on February 07, 2013, 09:47:41 PM
One could, if one were ultimately of the view that adults are only children as you appear too.
If a medico can't do it then those drugs should not be under their control, or the law should not hold them responsible. I have a right to exist as who I am. And for someone like you to say that as someone who's transgender I don't have the same rights as other people, only serves to prove to me how profoundly broken and backwards the community that exists supposedly to help and support people like me really is.
Exactly why I continue to completely ignore transgender issues in real life, because our community is the source of most of our problems. To me it is absolutely disgusting to think that someone like yourself thinks I should be denied HRT because I exercise my right to smoke.
The small minded are those who always defend the status quo, and always seek to control others. It's not about my desire or lack of to give up smoking, it's about my rights as an adult to elect what risks I wish to take.
Almost all of what you hear from the government about almost anything is propaganda. I don't dispute your claim that smoking, even nicotine alone, is likely to increase your risk of heart problems. Virtually all stimulant drugs do to some extent. I would dispute that nicotine in isolation is a particularly strong stimulant though. On the whole though I agree with your post.
The law does hold them responsible, so what is the relevance of your comment?
And for someone like you to say that as someone who's transgender I don't have the same rights as other people,I have never said that, and I never would say that. I find your comment mischievous and non-founded.
To me it is absolutely disgusting to think that someone like yourself thinks I should be denied HRT because I exercise my right to smoke Again I have never said that, I did say I don't personally care if you smoke or not. I have never said that I think you should be denied anything. I have no personal opinion of your situation whatsoever and I have never stated one.
I'm very happy to discuss issues but please don't attribute comments to me that I have never made.
If you are unable to discuss matters in a sensible manner please don't continue the conversation.
I find the direction of this conversation quite disturbing. Calling someone "perhaps" or "maybe" a spineless, because one cannot stop or wont want to stop smoking, isn't exactly a supportive comment, not at least in my books.
Really bothers me, if this is the support you get here. I mean yes, smoking and HRT increases the risks, no one isn't arguing that I guess, but it's her choice.
Why this bothers me is that I'm starting a DIY HRT for certain reason which I wont go into detail now, but it does put me in a slightly elevated risk. Does it now make me a spineless and not worthy of any support or compassion, as I'm taking a deliberate risk? One that I know and one that I hopefully can control due to my education.
Quote from: Henna on February 07, 2013, 10:57:58 PM
I find the direction of this conversation quite disturbing. Calling someone "perhaps" or "maybe" a spineless, because one cannot stop or wont want to stop smoking, isn't exactly a supportive comment, not at least in my books.
Please read the original comment:
Quoted from Asfsd4214
"What a wonderful world we live in. So you would be ok with doctors denying me the right to live as who I am because I smoke because they're too spineless to accept that I'm an adult and have the right to take the risk if I want too."
My reply:
I suppose one could have a view that if you are too spineless to give up smoking to live as the person you wish to be, then that is your problem to deal with.
Really bothers me, if this is the support you get here. I mean yes, smoking and HRT increases the risks, no one isn't arguing that I guess, but it's her choice.
Why this bothers me is that I'm starting a DIY HRT for certain reason which I wont go into detail now, but it does put me in a slightly elevated risk. Does it now make me a spineless and not worthy of any support or compassion, as I'm taking a deliberate risk? One that I know and one that I hopefully can control due to my education.
No it does not. I have never implied that or said that. I was using Asfsd4214's words that she used to describe a person for carrying out their legal responsibility as being spineless.
I find that rather foolish.
Quote from: Sky-Blue on February 07, 2013, 10:45:44 PM
Ah I see what you mean...but I only agree with you if you are referring to people that smoke heavily (more than say 1-2 cigarettes a day). At a certain point the body cannot heal itself decently.
If you truly mean what you said I can give you another hypothetical...
Say for instance someone wants hrt, but they are a caffeine addict/heavy user. This puts more stress on their heart/nervous system and thus would make it more dangerous start hrt.
Would you say that they should be allowed hrt? Why yes/no?
Now for the second hypothetical...
Say for instance a person wants hrt and they use caffeine in moderation (a cup of coffee/coca cola etc.). Thus their risk of heart disease etc. is slightly higher than a non-caffeine user.
Would you say that they should be allowed hrt? Why yes/no?
*I should note that both caffeine and nicotine are stimulants, and when used for the first time, they affect the nervous system in the same amount and way.
Firstly
I have never said anyone should be allowed or not allowed to have HRT. What I stated was a quoted opinion on the legality of medicos prescribing HRT, in particular oestrogen, to transwoman who smoke more than 7-8 cigarettes per day.
The combination of cigarette smoking and oestrogen stimulation of the liver has a well known high combined risk in causing thrombophilia, - blood clotting; sometimes manifesting as deep vein thrombosis.
I have no opinion at all on other stimulants.
I'm also not in the position to grant or deny HRT to anyone.
Personally I try to live a healthy life style but that is my choice and I do not promote my lifestyle as being of any benefit to anyone else.
Quote from: Cindy James on February 07, 2013, 10:47:56 PM
The law does hold them responsible, so what is the relevance of your comment?
And for someone like you to say that as someone who's transgender I don't have the same rights as other people,
I have never said that, and I never would say that. I find your comment mischievous and non-founded.
To me it is absolutely disgusting to think that someone like yourself thinks I should be denied HRT because I exercise my right to smoke
Again I have never said that, I did say I don't personally care if you smoke or not. I have never said that I think you should be denied anything. I have no personal opinion of your situation whatsoever and I have never stated one.
I'm very happy to discuss issues but please don't attribute comments to me that I have never made.
If you are unable to discuss matters in a sensible manner please don't continue the conversation.
Ok, fair enough, but I'm not sure I believe that the law does hold them responsible in this particular context, but regardless, it shouldn't.
Cindy I will admit to overreacting and I apologize for that. I felt that you were defending the practice.
I am of the opinion that medical professionals have no right and in fact should be legally preventing from abusing their prescription power to try and effect the personal choices of their patients. I strongly agree that people must be informed on the risks, and should be passively encouraged of the alternative options. But ultimately the decision is to the individual. Once they understand the risks, it's theirs to decide.
Quote from: Pleasingly Plump Jamie D on February 07, 2013, 10:45:04 PM
But when you die of a smoking-related disease, like my mom did, unless you are totally alone in the world, you are going to be hurting others. And I can tell you, that pain never never goes away. I watched my mom go through operations to have tumors removed from her lungs, her kidney, and her liver, as well as other tumors that formed next to her aorta. It got to the point where, after having much of one lung removed and one kidney removed, when the tumors came back, that was it. Hospice.
Having a cancerous tumor grow in your remaining lung, slowly suffocating you, and having a machine have to clean you blood every few days, is no way to go. And the incredible pain that goes along with it, so much pain that morphine just barely works. And the indignity of having to use a bed pan, when you conscious, and to be cleaned up when you are not.
Not a pretty sight. Yeah, my mom enjoyed smoking for nearly 50 years (she still begged for cigarettes on her deathbed), but the last 12 years of suffering was hardly worth it. And the nightmare she left her husband and kids and grandkids wasn't worth it either.
I am very sorry for your loss, really I am.
If I may say though, I can imagine why she would still want to smoke on her death bed. I mean at that point what does it matter?
We as a society have a strong philosophy of life at any cost, personally I don't think it's worth it. I don't think people should have to suffer such indignity as your mother did unless they choose too.
I know smoking is very bad for me, I also know I contracted a chronic illness through just bad luck, I know people who have dropped dead of freak accidents in the peak of health. Death comes for all of us, it's only a matter of when.
I'm not blind, I know smoking increases your odds of dying young, and that the way it will kill you is much more unpleasant than it might otherwise be. And I want to quit one of these days. But it's hard to get motivated. Because I know I might well die young, and that even if I don't, my quality of life probably will deteriorate earlier than most because of the aforementioned chronic illness.
We can extend our lives to the best of our ability, but resisting death is completely futile. I find more comfort in accepting the inevitability of my own death and enjoying life as best I can while I can. Maybe doing that will kill me earlier than it would have other wise, but that scares me less than the alternative of dying much later but never having lived a day in my life.
Just my philosophy.
I'm going to be blunt.. If I was a doctor, I'd likely not prescribe HRT to smokers.. Why? Because if the patient throws a clot, they'll still try and sue me - even if I had thoroughly warned the patient of the risks.
Quote from: Kelly the Trans-Rebel on February 08, 2013, 02:38:41 AM
I'm going to be blunt.. If I was a doctor, I'd likely not prescribe HRT to smokers.. Why? Because if the patient throws a clot, they'll still try and sue me - even if I had thoroughly warned the patient of the risks.
Then you shouldn't be a doctor if you care more about litigation than your patients.
Anyone can sue anyone for anything. It doesn't mean they have a case.
If doctors are too scared to do the right thing for fear of being inconvenienced by it, then we should take their Rx powers away from them for these particular drugs.
How did the world get so crazy? The doctors won't prescribe the drugs because they're afraid you'll misuse them or they could harm you. But then you get punished if you try and do it on your own. The entire system is designed to get in the way of the competent and the risk takers.
Just for clarification. I do not treat people for GID or any effects of it. I look after people who have cancers of the blood such as leukaemia and lymphoma.
Yes, I am an XY female and I live FT and I'm very happy and I plan on surgery later this year.
My opinions are mine only and on this forum are personal opinion and have NO MEDICAL WEIGHT. I respect other peoples opinions but I do like discussions to be practical rather than emotional. Even though my emotions are currently totally around the bend.
same words she used.
Quote from Asfsd4214
I am of the opinion that medical professionals have no right and in fact should be legally preventing from abusing their prescription power to try and effect the personal choices of their patients. I strongly agree that people must be informed on the risks, and should be passively encouraged of the alternative options. But ultimately the decision is to the individual. Once they understand the risks, it's theirs to decide.
I agree, but with a lot of reservations so lets just be a bit careful.
Things that happen to me. Doc I want to take XXXX I saw on Google it is really good for MM. Yes it is but your MM is not that advanced and I would rather wait and try YYY and PPP and then try for a stem cell collection when you are in remission. But Google says it has done this and that. I know but that was in a clinical trial with terminal patients and it extended their life by 6 months. That is very promising but you are no where near that stage.
Your scenario? But I insist on taking it. ( me: It will kill you) (you: it is my choice after being informed I insist) OK here it is. (You: thank you for respecting my informed choice). Next week you dead, me on criminal charges.
Personally I'm fine with a patient making their decision and living how they wish, not my problem, but I reserve the right to make my decision as to whether I want them as a patient.
There is also the medico-legal aspect. In your scenario the medics get their asses sued off even more than now. The way the law works is that you cannot sign off your rights.
I don't agree, you don't agree I still get sued, I go to goal.
So who pays? You do.
Lets just push a little. A hypothetical. Which BTW happens
Say I'm a surgeon.
My patient has a lifestyle that increase the chances of heavy bleeding. I weigh up their chances of survival and the cost. Yes (sadly) how much will the procedure cost if I have to get 5 blood packs in, where do I get them from, will the patient pre donate? How much will storage cost. I will need a by-pass operator and post operative special care and maybe have the ICU on stand by, my regular
anaesthetist refuses to work with patients with that risk. So I have to find another.
What are the risks to the patient, death, stroke, other. Ok if they die bad news but not too expensive. Stroke, massive costs, are the family aware? . Other, maybe two weeks post operative care rather than two days. Can I get the hospital to agree since they have a 4 day max turn around for beds for that procedure.
My decision? Ok I have a list of 30 patients with the same problem and a similar operation. I have a theatre available for one session a week so there is a queue. Who do I prioritise? the one who is a problem or the ten others who look good and I expect few side effects, and therefore no hold up in the system.
I'll let you guess the decision.
Sadly that hypothetical happens everyday.
[WARNING: As a health care professional, I am EXTREMELY biased against ALL nicotine use. The following is representative of my bias on the subject. If that will offend you, read no further. I'm posting it to help clear up some VERY SERIOUS misconceptions expressed so far in this thread on the topic of nicotine and estrogen use.]
Nicotine is not only highly addictive, it is highly toxic and MUCH MUCH worse than caffeine, which as it turns out has many documented positive effects on human physiology. The same is NOT true of nicotine.
It amazes me that anyone using nicotine products considers themselves in great health, but to each his own. Even a cursory search for the effects and side effects of nicotine use yields some pretty scary stuff:
It is a highly addictive, psychoactive drug that crosses the blood brain barrier in 10 to 20 seconds after inhalation (smoking.) I would imagine it is similar with chewing.
It is highly toxic, more toxic than other alkaloids such as cocaine!!!. From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine)):
Quote
The LD50 of nicotine is 50 mg/kg for rats and 3 mg/kg for mice. 30–60 mg (0.5–1.0 mg/kg) can be a lethal dosage for adult humans.[6][70] Nicotine therefore has a high toxicity in comparison to many other alkaloids such as cocaine, which has an LD50 of 95.1 mg/kg when administered to mice. It is unlikely that a person would overdose on nicotine through smoking alone, although overdose can occur through combined use of nicotine patches or nicotine gum and cigarettes at the same time.[7] Spilling a high concentration of nicotine onto the skin can cause intoxication or even death, since nicotine readily passes into the bloodstream following dermal contact.[71]
In the same article the side effects are listed as:
Quote
Nicotine increases blood pressure and heart rate in humans.[57] Nicotine can stimulate abnormal proliferation of vascular endothelial cells, similar to that seen in atherosclerosis.[58] Nicotine induces potentially atherogenic genes in human coronary artery endothelial cells.[59] Nicotine could cause microvascular injury through its action on nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nAChRs),[60] however other mechanisms are also likely at play.
A study on rats showed that nicotine exposure abolishes the beneficial and protective effects of estrogen on the hippocampus,[61] an estrogen-sensitive region of the brain involved in memory formation and retention.
In an article on drugs.com another of the hematological side effects is (http://www.drugs.com/sfx/nicotine-side-effects.html (http://www.drugs.com/sfx/nicotine-side-effects.html)):
Quote
Hematologic
Hematologic side effects have included increases in platelet aggregation and enhanced thrombus formation.
On the drugs.com website the list of nasty side effects is long and includes most of the body systems. And that's not even considering the tumor growth promoting aspects of nicotine.
All of the above does NOT take into consideration the deleterious effects of smoking itself, apart from the effects of nicotine. So, to the above you can add asthma, COPD, emphysema, bronchitis (ALL of which can be present in the same patient at the same time), pulmonary fibrosis, hypercholesterolemia and hypertension, PERMANENT increase in blood pressure, adverse effects on plasma fibrinogen, platelet turnover (both necessary for good tissue healing following surgery) and lipid profile, acute bradycardia, increase in blood pressure and generalized vasoconstriction due to a nicotine-dependent activation of the sympathetic nervous system. (Aw, but don't believe me, just look it up yourself: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2208758 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2208758))
Sky Blue, please enlighten us, WHEN did caffeine EVER cause ANY of these diseases or symptoms?
Still want to live in denial and exert your "right" to cause severe and irreparable damage to yourself? OK, how about this article then, since none of the above even considered the significantly higher risks of cancer in most of the body systems?
Quote
Smoking harms nearly every organ of the body. Smoking causes many diseases and reduces the health of smokers in general.1
Smoking and Death
Smoking causes death.
The adverse health effects from cigarette smoking account for an estimated 443,000 deaths, or nearly one of every five deaths, each year in the United States.2,3
More deaths are caused each year by tobacco use than by all deaths from human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), illegal drug use, alcohol use, motor vehicle injuries, suicides, and murders combined.2,4
Smoking causes an estimated 90% of all lung cancer deaths in men and 80% of all lung cancer deaths in women.1
An estimated 90% of all deaths from chronic obstructive lung disease are caused by smoking.1
Smoking and Increased Health Risks
Compared with nonsmokers, smoking is estimated to increase the risk of—
coronary heart disease by 2 to 4 times,1,5
stroke by 2 to 4 times,1,6
men developing lung cancer by 23 times,1
women developing lung cancer by 13 times,1 and
dying from chronic obstructive lung diseases (such as chronic bronchitis and emphysema) by 12 to 13 times.1
Smoking and Cardiovascular Disease
Smoking causes coronary heart disease, the leading cause of death in the United States.1
Cigarette smoking causes reduced circulation by narrowing the blood vessels (arteries) and puts smokers at risk of developing peripheral vascular disease (i.e., obstruction of the large arteries in the arms and legs that can cause a range of problems from pain to tissue loss or gangrene).1,7
Smoking causes abdominal aortic aneurysm (i.e., a swelling or weakening of the main artery of the body—the aorta—where it runs through the abdomen).1
Smoking and Respiratory Disease
Smoking causes lung cancer.1,2
Smoking causes lung diseases (e.g., emphysema, bronchitis, chronic airway obstruction) by damaging the airways and alveoli (i.e., small air sacs) of the lungs.1,2
Smoking and Cancer
Smoking causes the following cancers:1
Acute myeloid leukemia
Bladder cancer
Cancer of the cervix
Cancer of the esophagus
Kidney cancer
Cancer of the larynx (voice box)
Lung cancer
Cancer of the oral cavity (mouth)
Pancreatic cancer
Cancer of the pharynx (throat)
Stomach cancer
Smoking and Other Health Effects
Smoking has many adverse reproductive and early childhood effects, including increased risk for—
infertility,
preterm delivery,
stillbirth,
low birth weight, and
sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS).1,8
Smoking is associated with the following adverse health effects:8
Postmenopausal women who smoke have lower bone density than women who never smoked.
Women who smoke have an increased risk for hip fracture than women who never smoked.
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/effects_cig_smoking/ (http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/effects_cig_smoking/)
The article quoted above is based on decades of research.
Let's be clear about a few things:
You do have a 'right' to conduct your life as you see fit and it is not illegal to smoke.
You do NOT have a right to compel medical providers to write a prescription for drugs that they KNOW BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT will significantly increase your risk of an embolic event. Have you ever worked with stroke patients? I have. Even 'mild' strokes can be severely debilitating and LIFE ALTERING.
It IS your right to continue to live in denial with regard to the risks of smoking, but you DON'T have the right to ask any one else to assist you in your attempted suicide by smoking, which is what prescribing HRT (especially at dosages necessary for transition!) to someone who smokes amounts to. If you must do that, then by all means exert your 'right' to get your medical license and write your own prescriptions.
In my opinion, anyone taking exogenous estrogen and continuing to use nicotine in any form, especially by smoking, is basically playing russian roulette with more than 50% of the chambers loaded. Gotta love that rugged, individualism to do as you damn well see fit, even if it kills you. You go girl! Hope it works for you!
Quote from: Asfsd4214 on February 08, 2013, 02:51:11 AM
If doctors are too scared to do the right thing for fear of being inconvenienced by it, then we should take their Rx powers away from them for these particular drugs.
How did the world get so crazy?
I understand you not liking the fact that many doctors have concerns over being sued or even struck off & prevented from practicing medicine but I feel the blame should lie with the ambulance ->-bleeped-<-s.
Losing a career is more than an inconvenience & living with the burden that you may have directly or indirectly cost someone their life is something most compassionate human beings would actively try to avoid.
Q: How did the world get so crazy?
A: Ambulance ->-bleeped-<-s
For the record, I still smoke & am currently cutting down ready to quit before HRT later this year, I smoked for 20 yrs then gave up for two years, during that time I would not only avoid lecturing smokers but I would come to their defence when the ex-smokers got on their high horse, I would pop their smug bubble by pointing out that the only reason they were bleating was because the smell of a lit cigarette temps them as when I first quit I many ex-smokers confided that this is why they hated smoking/smokers.
I regret starting up again but I will always defend peoples right to smoke, I just feel it's unfair to put the blame on doctors who's main concern is a patients long term health.
Hi just wondering if smoking affects feminization even on injection?
I'm no doctor but one thing i remember reading is that smoking tobacco degrades collagen or elasticity in the skin and the constriction of blood vessels also stresses the skin. This could mean more wrinkles which in and of itself, might be considered a problem for feminization.
One of the great things of HRT is that your skin often improved and looks younger on it.
Quote from: kehlfranxis on February 23, 2017, 05:52:32 PM
Hi just wondering if smoking affects feminization even on injection?
Welcome to the site.
I am no doctor but can say smoking seems to be bad for nearly anything health related. I can only assume it would effect physical shifts as well. I don't even play a doctor on TV, though.
I also want to share some links with you. They are mostly welcome information and the rules that govern the site. If you have not had a chance to look through them, please take a moment:
Things that you should read
Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html) | Standard Terms & Definitions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html) | Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.) |
Reputation rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html) | News posting & quoting guidelines (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,174951.0.html) | Photo, avatars, & signature images policy (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.msg383866.html#msg383866) |
Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.
With warmth,
Joanna
When E is taken orally, smoking increases its metabolization and decreases its concentration in the blood. Non-orally, this does not seem to be the case according to studies.
The trouble I find is that we weight our argument, smoking may react with other things one ingests, and I think that is agreed on.
The trouble is, how to give up that?
Do we want to?, Shall we?
Lets.
Some doctors won't prescribe hormones if you are actively smoking....increases risk for blood clots... We had 3 transwomen patients who are moderate smokers who developed DVT deep vein thrombosis ...that's why hormone is usually prescribed with Aspirin. HRT or no HRT smoking will lead to so many health problems it's just a matter of when.... Plus it ages you....
First off, I'm not against smokers... The only smokers I'm against are the ones who consider everywhere their ashtray and butt trash can.
With that said, I'd stop smoking or at least highly cut back while on HRT. Personally, I'd quit all together. My mom's body decided to not wake up on Christmas Day 2013 with tobacco being high contributor. I pulled the plug & oxygen 2 days later. 55 is pretty darn young to die.
Christmas around noon:
"Hey, come to the hospital to see mom, she is probably not going to make it past tonight."
"Hey, your aunt is dying, better come see her now."
"Umm, your daughter is dying so you might want to fly 1400 miles to see her. Now."
"Your sister is dying, you should come to the hospital."
Yea, it kills the Christmas mood when family & extended family and their kids and spouses are piled into awaiting room 10:30 at night and all 80 people are allowed to stay after hours "given the situation" while their loved one may not survive the night.
Just a little perspective.
Quote from: Miss Lux on March 22, 2017, 11:53:03 PM
HRT or no HRT smoking will lead to so many health problems it's just a matter of when....
HRT that consists of bio-identical hormones is relatively safe and is actually beneficial on several fronts. It has been shown to keep blood pressure normal, reduce the onset of diabetes, reduce cardiovascular risk (lipids and vasodilation), prevent obesity, protect (in one study in men given high doses) against the risk of DVT and, at the very least, have a negligible impact on coagulation, especially if taken non-orally. It also prevent osteoporosis, reduces the onset of Alzheimer's, keeps one young and more vibrant, etc. In transwomen, there is no increase in breast cancer risk due to HRT and no cause and effect has ever been established between estrogen or bio-identical progesterone and breast cancer.
Risks increase significantly on other types of hormones like ethinyl estradiol, Premarin. Also, anti-androgens may be associated with some adverse reactions and side-effects.
I wouldn't recommend it, in anything but moderation, but I'm not a medical professional. Smoking was one of the first things that my psych, endo and doctor asked me about before they got together and allowed me to start.
Quote from: KayXo on March 26, 2017, 08:14:14 AM
HRT that consists of bio-identical hormones is relatively safe and is actually beneficial on several fronts. It has been shown to keep blood pressure normal, reduce the onset of diabetes, reduce cardiovascular risk (lipids and vasodilation), prevent obesity, protect (in one study in men given high doses) against the risk of DVT and, at the very least, have a negligible impact on coagulation, especially if taken non-orally. It also prevent osteoporosis, reduces the onset of Alzheimer's, keeps one young and more vibrant, etc. In transwomen, there is no increase in breast cancer risk due to HRT and no cause and effect has ever been established between estrogen or bio-identical progesterone and breast cancer.
Risks increase significantly on other types of hormones like ethinyl estradiol, Premarin. Also, anti-androgens may be associated with some adverse reactions and side-effects.
I think u misunderstood my post... I was talking about d dangers of SMOKING with or without HRT..... I am a medcal professional and I do know what I am talking about, it 's not just something I read online...
I watched my mother lying on her back in bed for two years in my house hooked to an oxygen machine suffering from end stage emphysema and degenerating dementia. She never left the bed until the coroner finally made his visit and there was a common cause for both; Tobacco. Smoking is insanely stupid and I say that as a former smoker. Watching someone die for two years because of it drives that point home.
Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
Quote from: Miss Lux on March 26, 2017, 04:14:31 PMI think u misunderstood my post... I was talking about d dangers of SMOKING with or without HRT..... I am a medcal professional and I do know what I am talking about, it 's not just something I read online...
Oh, I apologize.