Hey all, I have a job interview tomorrow and I have never asked here what everyone thinks about disclosure of trans status. Should I or shouldn't I tell the hiring manager about my trans status?
On past interviews I have gone both ways, I have told some and on others I haven't. However, I just wanted to see the opinions of those who have actually gone for new jobs after transitioning to full-time status.
No, I never used to, though I think it could depend on what the job involves.
Personally, it never affected my ability at work and it shouldn't have been taking into account when deciding whether I would get the job anyway, so I usually left it out.
x
I agree that it shouldn't be a consideration and no it does not affect my ability. But the truth is in 34 states it is still perfectly legal to discriminate based on gender identity. I happen to live in one of those 34 states. I have also heard of girls who tried to hide their trans status and when discovered were fired for "being dishonest".
Bexi how long have you been transitioned and what state do you live in? (If you don't mind me asking.)
Are people that aren't trans required to state that in the interview? How else would we know? They must be lying to us! This sounds a lot like the movie School Ties, basing decisions on irrelevant information. If they wouldn't hire you because you're trans, then not disclosing that information and getting "caught" later isn't really going to change anything.
Quote from: Sadie on February 11, 2013, 09:42:23 AM
I agree that it shouldn't be a consideration and no it does not affect my ability. But the truth is in 34 states it is still perfectly legal to discriminate based on gender identity. I happen to live in one of those 34 states. I have also heard of girls who tried to hide their trans status and when discovered were fired for "being dishonest".
Bexi how long have you been transitioned and what state do you live in? (If you don't mind me asking.)
Not at all. I've been transitioning for almost 2 years, though have been on hormones for a little over a year.
I'm from the UK where I *think* that we have laws in place which makes it illegal for, and try to prevent, discrimination of transsexual people. Its still got problems, but does have its uses.
Really? Getting fired for "dishonesty" because they didn't disclose something as personal and irrelevant as whether they're trans*? ->-bleeped-<- me, that's ludicrous and completely unjust.
X
Being trans is not related to most jobs (actors/actresses in porn excepted)...so it shouldn't come up in an interview.
I wouldn't volunteer it, but if I was asked I would answer with pride (not arrogance) and satisfaction in how I'm progressing, and would note it has not affected my ability to work and has improved my relations with customers (all true).
If you are not full time yet, and plan to go full time in the near future I think you should let them know at the second interview. That way they know they can trust you, and you know you will not get fired for transitioning on the job. I am full time now, so I won't mention it in an interview. It has no relevance on my work anymore. The only reason it did in the past is because I transitioned on the job. Granted I also work in a state where it is protected.
Have you legally changed your name & gender on your documents (ie SS card, drivers license, etc)? If not, you should probably disclose. Most applications do ask though if you have ever changed you legal name, so you want to be ready for that question as well.
I am full-time, as I said before I have both mentioned and not mentioned it on interviews and so I was just wondering what the consensus was. I am not sure if I am shooting myself in the foot when I mention it, or vice versa. I have been having a hell of time getting a job though, been unemployed for a while.
I live in North Carolina, not a protected state.
Quote from: Sadie on February 11, 2013, 09:13:33 AM
Hey all, I have a job interview tomorrow and I have never asked here what everyone thinks about disclosure of trans status. Should I or shouldn't I tell the hiring manager about my trans status?
On past interviews I have gone both ways, I have told some and on others I haven't. However, I just wanted to see the opinions of those who have actually gone for new jobs after transitioning to full-time status.
I'm assuming that you re full time right now and you have all of the paper work trail all fixed up in the event that they do a background check on you when you get hired, as a lot of employers do now. If you are full time, then I would never say a word. It has no bearing on your job. There will be absolutely zero benefit to you to be an out person on the job, in fact in my opinion it could be a very negative thing. Of all the places to be, it's the one place where conformity is valued the most is the workplace. The absolute last thing you want is to find yourself being told which toilet to pee in as well or find yourself excluded or treated as less than a woman. It really can't be worth that, can it?
When I went full time I never said a thing to anyone. I assumed I wasn't fooling the interviewer simply because I didn't have much life experience yet. I wasn't applying for a job to make a social statement, I was doing it to keep food on the table, a roof over my head and to save up for my Srs surgery. A job is a place where I can exchange my skills in doing specific things and getting paid for it, that's all.
If you don't have your name changed on college diplomas, high school diplomas, bills, etc, then this would be a great opportunity to show up at their door with your name change in hand and getting it updated. Background checks nowadays can get quite invasive. I know I had to go through a complete FBI one when I went to work for a defense contractor. I thought I would be a dead duck, but it never came up once and no one asked. I also had another job behind me as a woman for references, and all of my documentation including my college degree was in my new name. That's just my 2 cents.
Quote from: JennX on February 11, 2013, 10:28:33 AM
Have you legally changed your name & gender on your documents (ie SS card, drivers license, etc)? If not, you should probably disclose. Most applications do ask though if you have ever changed you legal name, so you want to be ready for that question as well.
Yes my name is legally changed and all my identification (DL, SSN, credit cards match my new name.)
Seeing as you are full time (and pass if I remember correctly), all your documents are correct, and you live in NC I would not disclose. Unless, you are going for a job that requires a government security clearance, there is no reason to let them know. You will just be giving them a reason not to hire you. IMHO.
Quote from: Sadie on February 11, 2013, 10:31:08 AM
I am full-time, as I said before I have both mentioned and not mentioned it on interviews and so I was just wondering what the consensus was. I am not sure if I am shooting myself in the foot when I mention it, or vice versa. I have been having a hell of time getting a job though, been unemployed for a while.
I live in North Carolina, not a protected state.
It doesn't matter if you live in a state with protections or not. If you are trans and they don't want to hire you, they can come up with any BS reason for not hiring you. They can do the same even if they fire you or eliminate your job once they do find out.
If you would like my own personal experience then please email me, I would e glad to share my thoughts and some job strategies with you.
One last point, this (2013), is a very competitive job market. It's a buyers market and employers have the upper hand. Trust me I know I am a manager right now. If your name is in a pile of resumes you need to stand out, and bringing out the TS thing is pretty much a game killer, unless you are going to work in a drag bar or something. I have no ideas of what skills you have but ready for the shock: women are paid less, treated like crap on the job, and it takes being a bit ruthless to get ahead. That's life I'm general not just for TS women.
Quote from: Sadie on February 11, 2013, 10:32:40 AM
Yes my name is legally changed and all my identification (DL, SSN, credit cards match my new name.)
What about previous employers and educational things like diplomas. Are they still in your old name? When I went full time I went around to past employers and told them first. I didn't like doing it, but I had zero work history with my new name. I also wanted to have references as well. So I had to suck it up and do it. I also went to my college and old high school and got them to change the name on my diploma and my college degree. I did that without even a hitch.
No I have not changed my name on my old diplomas and such. I should probably do that but honestly the job I have been doing the past 12 years has little to do with what I got a degree in.
Previous employers have also not changed my name, not sure how I would do that.
Quote from: Sadie on February 11, 2013, 10:32:40 AM
Yes my name is legally changed and all my identification (DL, SSN, credit cards match my new name.)
Well, then what's to disclose. ;) You are female. Period. The only issue that could come up is if they run a credit report and see your former name. That can be explained though. Don't disclose anything. At this point, you don't have to by law either.
PS: Just saw your post about previous employers: You might want to call your last last 1-2 most recent employers and make them aware of your name change. Legally, they don't have to help... but most will, especially with a court ordered name change.
Quote from: Zumbagirl on February 11, 2013, 10:39:07 AM
It doesn't matter if you live in a state with protections or not. If you are trans and they don't want to hire you, they can come up with any BS reason for not hiring you. They can do the same even if they fire you or eliminate your job once they do find out.
If you would like my own personal experience then please email me, I would e glad to share my thoughts and some job strategies with you.
One last point, this (2013), is a very competitive job market. It's a buyers market and employers have the upper hand. Trust me I know I am a manager right now. If your name is in a pile of resumes you need to stand out, and bringing out the TS thing is pretty much a game killer, unless you are going to work in a drag bar or something. I have no ideas of what skills you have but ready for the shock: women are paid less, treated like crap on the job, and it takes being a bit ruthless to get ahead. That's life I'm general not just for TS women.
This entire post +10000
I work in upper management, and when I hire people I look for the same things. Red-flags, periods of unemployment, why did you leave a job, etc. Employers don't want issues and drama. They want people to show up, work, and do a good job. Doesn't matter if you live in a protected state or not. An employer may choose to not hire for any reason... and fire you for any reason. They might not have liked the color of your hair? Yes, it may violate some laws, but guess what, when your unemployed, out of work, who wants to go hire a lawyer and go thru a 2-3 year law suit, which will most likely be settled out of court with a small amount of compensation. I don't. I mean this is what happens in the real world. It's not fair, it's not right or just... and company's fire people all the time for good and bad reasons. It happens.
Quote from: Sadie on February 11, 2013, 10:55:44 AM
No I have not changed my name on my old diplomas and such. I should probably do that but honestly the job I have been doing the past 12 years has little to do with what I got a degree in.
Previous employers have also not changed my name, not sure how I would do that.
I called them up asked for an appointment to meet with someone from HR and asked about updating my records in case anyone called inquiring about whether I worked there. As soon as I showed them the court ordered name change, I had zero problems. I. Even had a few former co workers come by and shake my hand at my courage. Getting a job with zero experience is going to be really really hard. The last thing you want to do at this point is to out yourself because of your education either. I would suggest dropping by the alumni office and showing them the copy as well. My college gave my a whole new degree with my new name on it!! How can can anyone beat that? Even if your degree is completely irrelevant to the job (example your degree is in poetry and your intended job is in IT) it's still a big plus. It shows someone who follows through on things. Accomplishments are still accomplishments and are worth tooting your horn over.
Out and proud may be nice if you want to live in a hippie commune, but it will never pay the bills, pay for Srs surgery, or offer any kind of a comfortable life.
Quote from: JennX on February 11, 2013, 11:03:39 AM
Well, then what's to disclose. ;) You are female. Period. The only issue that could come up is if they run a credit report and see your former name. That can be explained though. Don't disclose anything. At this point, you don't have to by law either.
PS: Just saw your post about previous employers: You might want to call your last last 1-2 most recent employers and make them aware of your name change. Legally, they don't have to help... but most will, especially with a court ordered name change.
I have heard that some employers do credit reports but how common is that? I have terrible credit. My ex got us into all kind of debt when we were married and we had to file for bankruptcy. So bad credit can keep me from a job? Seems unfair since it has nothing to do with how well I can work.
It depends on the employer, sadly it's the way things are these days. Background checks will look for any criminal activity that could be in your past, even something completely silly you could have done growing up. They also look at educational background, such as proof that you really have a high school diploma or a college degree. They also routinely run credit check looking usually for a FICO score. If you have a bankruptcy then it would worth mentoring when it comes time to do the background check. If is a game changer for an employer it's better to know up front instead of having an offer rescinded, right?
That's why I keep stressing that a half done name change is going to hurt and not help. When I was doing mine, I was sending copies of my name change to credit bureaus, creditors, utilities lIke phone cable or electric, my high school, college, everywhere I cold think of. Getting a good job, I mean one that pays, is a lot more effort than a drivers license or social security card change.
Like I said, email if you want info. I've been full time for almost 13-14 years now and have gone through a few job changes. I know the scary new full timer feeling that comes with having no employment and prospects that might look bleak.
Quote from: Sadie on February 11, 2013, 11:37:11 AM
I have heard that some employers do credit reports but how common is that? I have terrible credit. My ex got us into all kind of debt when we were married and we had to file for bankruptcy. So bad credit can keep me from a job? Seems unfair since it has nothing to do with how well I can work.
I agree. It should be an non-issue. The company I work for does run a credit check and criminal background check on all serious prospective applicants. The thing with the credit check is, some employers see it as a predictor/indicator of how well you manage things (ie money), and if you are in say "deep debt", you may be more likely to do bad things to help yourself get out of it. It doesn't take in to account all the things that can happen in life, and different people's living situations. I personally put no weight in it, and have hired many people with horrible credit ratings and bankruptcies that have been great workers. So, it depends on the person making the decision. I really wouldn't worry much about it. :)
Quote from: JennX on February 11, 2013, 12:01:30 PM
many people with horrible credit ratings and bankruptcies that have been great workers. So, it depends on the person making the decision. I really wouldn't worry much about it. :)
Sadly that's not always the case. A lot of companies will use a FICO score as a minimum hiring criteria, example no one below a 600 can work there. It will never be written down anywhere, so don't ask anyone to produce a document. Those are the unwritten rules of company executives and management. I worked for a company where I had one small minor ding on my credit report and they called me on the carpet to explain it. Luckily it was a mistake and I had the paperwork to prove it and back up my claim, in this case a cancelled check that proved a payment was made, so they overlooked it.
On the plus side you do have a divorce to tie in with the bankruptcy so that might work in your favor.
If you are really really worried, then here is another suggestion. Work as a consultant or contact person, a temp. Pick some place you would like to work and worh there like you own the place. Hiring criteria for contractors is generally lower and it's easier to get into one of these kinds of jobs. Benefits will suck, the money will be good and at least you will be working. If the company extended you an offer and you have done an outstanding job for them, they ae going to place far less significance on the background check. A lot of companies do this "try before you buy" philosophy. They hire a consultant for 6 months and if they like the work, they hire them.
Oh I am definitely open to contract to hire positions. Criminal background check is no problem either as I had to get a State and Federal criminal background check to change my name in NC.
I have no idea what my credit score is, when I go on sites and check my credit for my current name it states I have a thin file and no score can be produced. I figured that since my SSN is the same the old information would carry over but that does not seem to be the case. I have no credit cards (just a debit through my bank) since my bankruptcy. I have tried to get a secured card but being unemployed leaves me with no reportable income so...not sure. I may be able to submit my W-2 from last year before I was laid off but it has the wrong name on it, I need to get my old employer to change my name.
This certainly was not my plan. I had planned to transition on the job but got laid off a month before I went full-time as I was waiting on my name change to be complete.
If it's any consolation, the day after I told my employer that i was transitioning I was fired and walked right out the door. I had dreams of transitioning on the job, getting surgery and living happily ever after, but that all turned out to be a pipe dream.
I had no choice, I had to start over. I was left with no other possibilities. I hadn't worked there very long for severance pay so I was pretty much in the cold for a while. Looking back, I have to think I had some pretty big kahunas because the day after I was fired I did my name change and said this is it.
You know going back to old employers turned out to be quite a blessing in disguise. I really really didn't want to do it, I was scared to death, but I did it. I had a really good reputation at other employers including the one who fired me, and I got a lot of tips, places that were hiring, etc. In the end, I had an old boss who surprised me utterly by helping to find me a job. If you would have asked me in a million years that he would have been helpful I would have said no. He was what women call a "sexist horn dog pig" but he was really nice to me and even greased the new employer with a solid endorsement. It was all I needed to get back in the front door and start a new job. At the end of the interview, they made me a job offer on the spot. I was so happy, I said yes. It was far less than I was worth, but that's the least wonderful part of the world of women, being underpaid.
Oh I had one more thought. The majority of the opinions seem to say don't tell because your just hurting yourself but what happens if they offer me a position and then look at my drivers license? In the state of North Carolina you are not allowed to change your gender marker on your DL until you've had your SRS surgery.
Quote from: Sadie on February 12, 2013, 09:17:09 AM
Oh I had one more thought. The majority of the opinions seem to say don't tell because your just hurting yourself but what happens if they offer me a position and then look at my drivers license? In the state of North Carolina you are not allowed to change your gender marker on your DL until you've had your SRS surgery.
Let them look. Once they got that far, if they want to not hire you because of it then it is not a company you would want to work for anyway. IMHO
Quote from: Sadie on February 12, 2013, 09:17:09 AM
Oh I had one more thought. The majority of the opinions seem to say don't tell because your just hurting yourself but what happens if they offer me a position and then look at my drivers license? In the state of North Carolina you are not allowed to change your gender marker on your DL until you've had your SRS surgery.
If they ask, then explain it. But it seems when I have to show mine, I don't think anyone even notices, they are usually more interested in matching the picture to the name. Where I work, they knew I was trans before I ever even applied, so it was never an issue.
Quote from: Sadie on February 12, 2013, 09:17:09 AM
Oh I had one more thought. The majority of the opinions seem to say don't tell because your just hurting yourself but what happens if they offer me a position and then look at my drivers license? In the state of North Carolina you are not allowed to change your gender marker on your DL until you've had your SRS surgery.
How many companies actually take the time to scrutinize your driver's license? I'd bet if they were going as far as looking at your gender marker on your driver's license, that they would have already made up their mind to let you go and just needed a valid reason.
I did research into my own field last night after seeing this thread because I have a clearance. Anyway, turns out someone won a federal court case in DC over not being offered a job because of going through a transition, so I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about this: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/09/19/transsexual.discrimination/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/09/19/transsexual.discrimination/index.html)
Quote from: JennX on February 11, 2013, 10:28:33 AMMost applications do ask though if you have ever changed you legal name, so you want to be ready for that question as well.
What they're usually interested in is if they need to know if any records they want to check (e.g. work, school, criminal) are under another name. If everything relevant is under your new name then it probably won't be an issue (if you want to be safe you can put down that no pertinent records are under any other name). On the other hand, you CAN get in trouble by concealing work history if you're hoping they won't inquire about that (so if any employers they ask about only know you by your old name you'll have to bring that up), and you can get in serious trouble if you have any criminal history under your old name and the employer doesn't know about it due to the name change.
Also to the OP: In many places it's illegal (or highly discouraged) for an employer to ask you in that manner (asking if you've legally changed your name). If you were known by another name that is relevant to the application process even if you never legally changed it you'll need to disclose it (e.g. if a reference only knows you by your nickname, or if you committed a crime under an alias and the record is under that name), and as I mentioned employers do not need to know about legal name changes beyond what they need to know to properly do a background check (a non-TS example is the birth name of someone adopted as a child). Differences in phrasing may seem superficial to most people but can strongly impact legality when on a job application (another example is asking if someone was ever arrested vs. ever convicted of a crime - someone innocent could be arrested but then acquitted, or asking if they're a citizen vs. authorized to work in the country).
To the OP: How did the interview go? Did they ask anything that would out you, or did you mention anything on your own along those lines?
Quote from: tgchar21 on February 13, 2013, 07:15:59 AM
To the OP: How did the interview go? Did they ask anything that would out you, or did you mention anything on your own along those lines?
Good question! Inquiring minds want to know!!
They didn't mention anything about me being trans and I didn't offer any information on that subject. I don't know if they would have made an offer, as I took myself out of the running when I found out what the pay was way too low. I can do better.