Writing to my uncle I related the following
One of the first things I encountered [after coming out] was a certain sense of guilt that I might be re-writing my personal history to justify my claim of being trans and it has taken a while to realize that we are always re-writing our personal history to conform to our present notion of who we are, and frankly the last 15+ years, for me, has been a narrative that involved a very unhealthy amount of guilt and anger but no explicable reason to justify them.
Upon reflection, my attempts to explain why I felt so screwed up as being caused by my mother getting ill (Brain tumor when I was five) are far less convincing than the idea that I might just be transgendered!
Oh, and the trans narrative, unlike the cancer trauma narrative, has the benefit of my actually believing it. It has the benefit that it actually makes me feel emotionally whole for, well, the first time ever.
I think part of the reason for the sense of "maybe I'm just making sh#t up" and the "you're just doing this for attention" was the discrepancy between my personal experience and the "socially convenient in it's neatness" story of the kid who says they are the opposite gender when they're two and never deviates from this assertion.
I unfortunately read up on HSTS v's ->-bleeped-<- theory and, between that and the frankly inconsistent feelings of dysphoria over the years, I began to mistrust my own memories.
In the end I think the truth is that everyone is constantly revising their own personal narrative to suit their current self image and THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
In fact if you're not revising your own understanding of yourself in light of new and perhaps more accurate information, you're probably doing it wrong.
So I'm doing my best to say to hell with any sense of guilt I feel over "inconveniently" requesting that others re-write their personal histories to account for the fact that I was NEVER who they thought I was.
After all, we used to think the Earth was the flat center of the Universe.
Turns out we were wrong about that too.
I get this feeling sometimes too.. trying to make sense of very confusing feelings for so long. I have to check myself sometimes because my desire to validate my feelings is so strong sometimes. For me it comes from a place of guilt I think.. since my trans narrative is hardly normative and I placed so much shame and guilt on these feelings over the years that it's hard to shake that feeling.
Getting to a point now where I'm just going "the hell with how and why I got here, I'm here".. and I'm finding my memories of my feelings in a whole new light, I was much unhappier than I had believed after seeing that the grass can be greener. It's a bit disconcerting looking back and having a different view of your life than you did a few years ago, but I'm still coming to accept that I was wrong.. and that I'm finally seeing it clearly.
Quote from: Rowan Rue on February 13, 2013, 11:22:53 PM
In the end I think the truth is that everyone is constantly revising their own personal narrative to suit their current self image and THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
yo some real talk right here!!!
in my own personal revision of my story i was a curious 16yo straight dude who invented his own True Trans Story on a weekend bender, because girl on girl is hot. it is totally exaggerated but it fits my image and makes me feel good and empowered and stuff. i think people are entitled to write their own histories especially when it governs how they're perceived by others.
Quote from: Rowan Rue on February 13, 2013, 11:22:53 PM
Upon reflection, my attempts to explain why I felt so screwed up as being caused by my mother getting ill (Brain tumor when I was five) are far less convincing than the idea that I might just be transgendered!
I want to respond to this whole post when I'm less exhausted, but what grabbed my attention at a deeply personal level was this. As a fairly late and delaying transitioner, a life-threatening illness for my mother, when I was in my teens (about age 16, but the chronology is a little blurry for me) is something that I have at least wondered about as a complicating factor, though not really an explanation for "being so messed up."
I have clear memories of at least wondering whether I was trans from a much earlier time, at age 10 at the latest, not counting the nature of early childhood friendships, as much as possible with girls my age, and barring that, with mostly feminine guys, also limited to my own age.
I can't speak for you of course, but the thought does cross my mind, did her illness and my distress at that time factor into why it took me as long as it did to come out? At some levels it would have been so much simpler, or at least it's tempting to thing so. Of course, my children would not and could not have existed, had I taken a different course. It's vanishingly unlikely that even if I had remained fertile or engaged in HRT, but not SRS, I would have had any chance of winding up with the mother of my children.
More later, I hope. Thanks for sharing!
Quote from: Elspeth on February 13, 2013, 11:47:40 PM
I can't speak for you of course, but the thought does cross my mind, did her illness and my distress at that time factor into why it took me as long as it did to come out?
My earliest memory is riding the school bus when I was four and hoping I'd grow up to be like this girl called susan who was in charge of minding us very young kids on the bus.
A year later we were visiting family in Virginia when my mother was diagnosed, we all thought she was going to die and a month later my sister, who was two, and I flew back to England on our own to live with my grandmother while my father stayed in the states on a visa extension. I ended up in a new school halfway through the school year and did not adjust terribly well.
I became extremely shy and introverted and learned to bottle up my emotions.
I'm pretty sure that had that not have happened I would have come out much much sooner.
Quote from: Rowan Rue on February 13, 2013, 11:22:53 PM
I think part of the reason for the sense of "maybe I'm just making sh#t up" and the "you're just doing this for attention" was the discrepancy between my personal experience and the "socially convenient in it's neatness" story of the kid who says they are the opposite gender when they're two and never deviates from this assertion.
<snip>
In the end I think the truth is that everyone is constantly revising their own personal narrative to suit their current self image and THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
Hi Rowan.
Interesting topic. Not sure it's ever really been discussed on here. When you talk about 'historical revisionism' are you remembering things that didn't happen or just making sense of the way you did act at the time? For instance, when I (or my mother) look back on my personality or things I did, it's pretty obvious I was a fairly normal boy. Not overly masculine or aggressive for a boy of that age, but came off that way for a girl of that time. You know, a boy like me probably wouldn't have been sent to a hospital...
As far as the 'early assertion' thing, I think that depends on a child's environment + temperament. A really shy child who endures severe punishment for any stray word is probably NOT going to be so adamant. I tried to get the situation across to my mother by explaining that I was 'Charlie Brown' and not 'Lucy'. LOL But I would never have had the balls to come out with 'I'm not a girl, I'm a boy.' My father would have killed me. I was whipped mercilessly for practically every word out of my mouth from about the age of 2. Plus, I was terrified of my own shadow until age 11. So... yeah. I hear stories of people as children insisting to anyone who would listen that they were really the opposite gender. I'm like wow, how'd you get the balls to do that? It just would have been unthinkable for me.
So, I don't put much stock in the assertion thing. It can certainly help trace gender dysphoria firmly for those with the balls to admit it at a young age. But not every kid felt free enough for that. The crossdressing and 'cross gender' play is a similar situation. A shy, abused little mtf girl may not have been brave enough to do those things. Or even one who wasn't abused, but just had a passive personality. Maybe a different abused little girl would have had the ovaries. It takes a brave kid to go against the grain in the best of situations. No kid is the same. And all are pretty susceptible to their environment.
I WISH I weren't so honest with myself about my past. If I could do revisionist history, I'd go back and make myself the baddest, toughest boy who ever lived. :laugh: I certainly came off really badass as a kid according to old friends, my mom, etc. But looking back, if you put a boy in my place, not so badass. Average boy at best. (Think this is part of my sudden masculinity crisis after transition)
The idea of 'rewriting personal histories' is intriguing. I wish I weren't so painfully honest with myself (and everyone else).
Quote from: Rowan Rue on February 14, 2013, 12:25:39 AM
My earliest memory is riding the school bus when I was four and hoping I'd grow up to be like this girl called susan who was in charge of minding us very young kids on the bus.
...
I'm pretty sure that had that not have happened I would have come out much much sooner.
Ah, for me, my mom's illness came later, in my teens. It was fairly clear, given my family's religion, and the kind of rural communities we lived in for so much of that time (and despite being born in Salt Lake City, and spending lots of time with relatives there, some of them more educated, but still very Mormon), that insisting I was a girl was not likely to lead anywhere. I knew who I was early, as much as I could, at least, at each particular age and stage of development.
I just felt that I could predict fairly well that the response was not likely to be a good one. I also spent most of my time in the library, and a lot of it was spent reading the fairly small collection of medical books, which, of course, since I was reading them in the late 60s and early 70s, contained very little on gender dysphoria, and mostly seemed to suggest to me (since most seemed to imply or assume that all transwomen were straight) that maybe I was something else, apart from the fact that what I was feeling also did not fit with the thinking at the time about fetishes or any other possible explanations.
When my mom became ill, with pelvic inflammatory disease due to an IUD (one that was recalled soon thereafter, because of that and other risks) I was in my mid-teens, and in many ways became substitute mom in our household, becoming the main one responsible for most of the household chores, menu planning, cooking, laundry and watching over my siblings, but there was still a certain sense of guilty thinking -- did my desires and inclinations bring this on? She was also in a hospital, and later in recovery, far from home, though not across an ocean, just about 8 hours of driving over mostly empty desert, while school and the rest of life kept moving onward.
Like you, though, the feelings were there before the traumatic event. If anything, this might go to explain a little of why, when I felt more attracted to but also more in tune with women, I did eventually managed to meet one who I more or less fooled myself into thinking would at least give me the role I desired, if not necessarily the body.
I think I've tried not to fabricate a history, but there are at least some parts that I do tend to shorthand for convenience, or because some of the details seem mostly irrelevant, but also, probably, a bit because describing them in any depth does trigger unhappy memories and internal turmoil that I mostly realize is imagined or is perhaps an overly mystical form of data mining and pattern matching, but in that, it's not unlike the sorts of pattern matching that are very common in Mormon culture, and often openly expressed to other Mormons... things about how, through prayer and faith, God saw fit to make some wonderful thing happen for the individual expressing a testimony. Not that my mother's illness was any kind of wonderful thing.
Just saying, the temptation to fit one's narrative into something where there's a causal link between things that happened beyond our control, and our own internal puzzling, questioning, or even our feelings of certain identity are probably not limited to transness?
I do think, if the trauma had been much earlier, with the impact you describe, that definitely would have probably put me a lot more in limbo, when coming later, when I was a bit more able to at least consider that her illness and my feminine identity and "role seeking" were unrelated except by coincidence, enabled me to at least make a kind of peace with myself, and solidify my understanding that trying to "man up" was only going to lead to turmoil, unhappiness and no benefit to others or myself.
Another bit here, which in some ways developed out of that illness, was mom and my maternal grandmother's involvement in feminism (grandma was one of the main political activists and leaders in feminist politics in Utah or at least one of those working most within the political system, and particularly advocating the (eventually failed) passage of the ERA, in her position as one of a small number of state legislators and as a leader in Utah's relatively small, non-confrontational feminist community at the time). That part, and some of the common thinking in the 70s about gender and roles was also part of why I felt obligated, at least for quite some time, to try to take on my desired roles, while remaining apparently male, albeit androgynous from my teens onward, aside from the limitations in doing androgyny while enlisted in the Army.
To come back to revisionism -- I think many of us tend to have to come up with a very brief summary of our history, and given the brevity, there's alway likely to be some self-questioning about whether we are being entirely truthful -- we're not, no one is, and no one can be
entirely truthful when describing a lifetime or at least a span of decades' experience in a single short narrative. And my experience with a therapist who seemed to have his own personal reasons for mishearing me, especially when I would go into the story in depth, also suggests that we often deduce that there are some very good and practical reasons for spinning the story in certain ways, especially when we are talking to anyone still devoted to shoehorning those narratives to fit a pattern that was originally based on a very small set of samples, from a time very different from the present.
Quote from: girl you look fierce on February 14, 2013, 12:46:59 AM
Well I think a lot of people edit their past narrative to seem more genuine... I guess that's ok if it's what makes you happy, though I think it would be weird to realize you're actually consciously trying to change your personality to something it wasn't. At least when you're changing it to something that shouldn't be superior to the alternative...
I'd like to read your response to my follow-up, posted a few minutes before reading this post.
In particular, why you think someone might be motivated to do this? For me I tend to assume that when we do fabricate, it's because we've read some limited part of the medical literature, and got the impression that part of negotiating with therapists and others to get to somewhere that is less dysphoric might be easier, the more clearly we could fit ourselves to a typical pattern.
I would agree that doing so winds up not being a good idea, especially if we wind up persuading ourselves that things we fabricated were in fact true, but this tendency also seems to me to be a fairly reasonable motivation for what often seems like it might be a fairly common experience in some ways, granted, a common experience that contains probably infinite variations.
But reading your post, on reflection, it seems possible, at least, to draw an inference that you think that not matching a particular narrative is a possible sign that someone is not trans, or at least not as clearly trans, as someone who fits the stereotype, or who "fits" the abnormal psych textbook's description of a "classic" case considerably better.
Motives could also just be as simple as the practical ones, of not wanting to spend time telling an entire life story, when it's not relevant, and is probably going to seem self-centered or annoyingly verbose (something I'm frequently "guilty" of, myself).
Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on February 14, 2013, 06:04:16 AM
I WISH I weren't so honest with myself about my past. If I could do revisionist history, I'd go back and make myself the baddest, toughest boy who ever lived. :laugh: I certainly came off really badass as a kid according to old friends, my mom, etc. But looking back, if you put a boy in my place, not so badass. Average boy at best. (Think this is part of my sudden masculinity crisis after transition)
You've pinpointed, at least for me, why I don't find fault with anyone who gives me reason to wonder whether they possess this "skill" for restructuring their past, since I can only imagine that,
if they are doing it, they are doing it to make their life easier, and their memories less disabling.
Quote from: Rowan Rue on February 13, 2013, 11:22:53 PM
In the end I think the truth is that everyone is constantly revising their own personal narrative to suit their current self image and THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
In fact if you're not revising your own understanding of yourself in light of new and perhaps more accurate information, you're probably doing it wrong.
I completely agree and understand that point.
I think we each try to portray what we are saying in essentially simplistic terms. But life isn't simple. There are aspects which we leave out, others which we don't appreciate at the time.
Hindsight is called 20/20 for a reason.
Sometimes we are not re writing, sometimes we are actually correcting.
But you can often learn from the original inaccuracies too.
History is my expertise. I might suck at remembering my own past, but I am an expert in the past generally speaking. I have read eye witness accounts of famous moments in time and they are factually mangled accounts. Just because you were there doesn't mean you say the whole picture or had all the facts. But, you will have experienced it, and those experiences do say a lot of what it was like to be there.
You need those experiences even when they were wrong. You learn from the inaccuracies.
I saw life through the eyes of a person growing up as a youth in the 60s being raised by parents that were cliche examples of Ward and June Cleaver. It affected me.
But as I look back on my own life, I do see a lot of things with a better view now than when I was actually living them.
I haven't revised my life, I just see it better now.
I spent a lot of years analyzing my memories and getting to a point where I wondered if they were even real or if it was just something I made up and kept telling myself enough that they became memories. Fortunately for me, I also realized that my memories have nothing to do with my present and it doesn't matter if they're real or not. What matters is that I need to be a woman. Even the why isn't important.
Interesting topic that resonates with me too. I too didn't have the usual narrative. When I was a kid my parents pretty much treated me like a boy (dressed me like one etc) so I never really felt conflicted. From puberty on I had really confusing feelings that I ascribed to depression or just some form of 'being bad at dealing with life.' My mom died of cancer when I was 19, so then that was convenient to use as a scapegoat, but deep down I know that my feelings were with me before that.
I don't look at it so much as rewriting. For me it's going back, remember things that did indeed happen, and looking at them from a different point of view; applying new meaning now that I have a new perspective as to what might have been the root cause. And while I can never really know if it's true, I does help me explain myself (to myself as well as others).
For example, I used to have a big problem with self-harm while I was in college. I was secretive about it, but at one point a roommate discovered my little habit and dragged me to the school counselor. Attempting to explain myself, I told the counselor that I was depressed because of my mom, even though I had started cutting well before she even got sick. I had no clue WHY I was doing it at the time, but now I can go back and place a different meaning on it. I was harming because those awful feelings I was trying to deaden were dysphoria-related. Clear as day no, right?
I have the guilt thing going on too, in a big way. My therapist innocently asked me why I had waited so long (6 years of marriage) to tell my husband, and I broke down. Because I didn't know what was wrong with me (the truth), but that sounds so lame. Based on the common narrative that floats around these days, I feel like everyone I've told is thinking 'how could you not have known your were 'trapped in the wrong body' until now?'
So I dip into the past to try to explain it...
Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on February 14, 2013, 08:41:01 AM
History is my expertise. I might suck at remembering my own past, but I am an expert in the past generally speaking. I have read eye witness accounts of famous moments in time and they are factually mangled accounts.
I might want to ask you for your response to a play I've been writing (off and on) for many years. It centers on the historical figures, St. Jerome and the woman I consider his sort of "sugar momma", St. Paula.
Paula was a wealthy Roman widow, and following some ambiguously recorded scandal in Rome, one that may have included accusations that he was crossdressing for morning mass or something, though those accounts don't actually show up in documents until perhaps a few centuries after Jerome's death. What is certain is that they left Rome, along with Paula's daughter, to set up a convent in Bethlehem, where Jerome continued, and probably did the bulk of his scriptural translation work, which is instrumental in how Christian scripture came to be translated and interpreted for centuries.
What you're saying about historical inaccuracy and witness bias, etc. is a big part of the piece.
Please do let me know if you're interested in reading and reacting to it at some point, now or in the future. Warning: it remains fairly unsatisfying to me at this point, since it's a play of ideas, and at risk of not always being very dramatic or consistent in how the conflicts play out, though in some places I may have made it overly dramatic. Still trying to find a way to balance out that part, in any case.
Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on February 14, 2013, 06:04:16 AM
Hi Rowan.
Interesting topic. Not sure it's ever really been discussed on here. When you talk about 'historical revisionism' are you remembering things that didn't happen or just making sense of the way you did act at the time?
Definitely the latter, or rather , I hope that it's the latter.
The conversation I'd been having with my uncle (the most recent person I've come out to) brought up these thoughts again.
He lost a couple of close friends unexpectedly before christmas and while he's very supportive of my transition, he did confess that his initial reaction had been "Why do people have to keep changing?!"
It's a very fair response and I often find myself somewhat at odds with my families attachment to their memories of me as a boy.
To the extent that I'm requiring them to re-write their memories of me, I feel it's fair to ask myself whether I'm being honest in my recollections.
Aslo the desire to confirm to some external narrative of what being Trans is, having something to point to and say "See, I really am trans, this proves it" as if my own lived experience isn't real enough.
Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on February 14, 2013, 08:41:01 AM
Hindsight is called 20/20 for a reason.
Sometimes we are not re writing, sometimes we are actually correcting.
But you can often learn from the original inaccuracies too.
....
I absolutely agree and this view is why i'm pretty comfortable with how I see myself (at least internally haha). Even where I'm wrong, there's always the opportunity to learn and adjust down the road.
Quote from: Elspeth on February 14, 2013, 07:36:27 AM
...
Just saying, the temptation to fit one's narrative into something where there's a causal link between things that happened beyond our control, and our own internal puzzling, questioning, or even our feelings of certain identity are probably not limited to transness?
I do think, if the trauma had been much earlier, with the impact you describe, that definitely would have probably put me a lot more in limbo, when coming later, when I was a bit more able to at least consider that her illness and my feminine identity and "role seeking" were unrelated except by coincidence, ...
A lot of psychiatry depends on this going back and finding a causal relationship to make sense of, and expunge ones problems. I was very depressed/had severe social anxiety at various points through my life and whenever I sought therapy it became very easy for the therapist to conclude that it must be related to my mother getting ill.
I had an explanation provided by a reputable professional and so that was that.
The more I think about it the stranger this notion is because, really, most people who had something bad happen to them tend to shrug it off and treat it like it was no big deal (PTSD being the big difference, but the causes are totally different).
I think if at any point I had been really seriously asked what was bothering me right there and then? Why did I feel unhappy NOW? I probably would have recognized that it was the dysphoria, because that was always there, in the present, upsetting me right then.
It really is a very poorly developed discipline in a lot of ways.
Elspeth, I'd be ok helping in my small fashion I suppose.
St Jerome is sort of easy to find content on considering how much he is known to have written on.
Had a momentary reaction when I saw St Jerome, I was born near there (Quebec), it was my fathers home.
I might be of greater value as a writing critique though, no great writer, but I consider it one of my talents.
Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on February 14, 2013, 01:24:36 PM
St Jerome is sort of easy to find content on considering how much he is known to have written on.
Easy to find content on, though much of it (particularly primary sources from Jerome's own times) came from his subjective perspective. Also, hard to confirm which material is true, and what is just rumor or innuendo, spurred by internal church politics or other factors. I consulted a fair number of scholars on the historical background for about a year before I started actually writing, and I've actually forgotten some of the details since the historical data was really an important gap in my knowledge base. I would be looking more for fresh perspectives and impressions of the story, as well as reactions from those interested in, and who believe they are well versed in history, and philosophy of history as well as other meta-subjects.
I'm actually, at least personally, far more interested in Paula and her daughter, Eustochium Julia. There's also an early friend of Jerome's (named Bonosus) who is also a major character, plus four contemporary characters from the present who are largely fictional, but might be seen as based on certain individuals in academia and public debate.
Erm, derail much? ::)
I think it happens without us intending to.
Actually, a weird one happened to me the other day. I was thinking back to my job at a natural foods store, and how we had a journal because there was usually only one person in at the time so we had to leave notes for the boss and she'd leave notes for us. Anyway, her notes were always really recognizable...scribble our name, quick request, then a smiley face and "Bernie." Lol. Anyhoo I wasn't out and going by Caleb at that job, didn't even know I wanted the name Caleb, but I have a visual memory, and I had an image of the journal in my mind with "Caleb, meat order is coming in today. :) Bernie."
It was really,, really odd.
The speed with which I became comfortable with my new name, once I finally made my decision, actually surprised me. Within a week I was responding completely automatically to Rowan and when people slip up and used my old name I often don't even recognize it. I think I've done quite an effective mental re-write there. I was honestly surprised when I read my old name on my debit card the other day. Thought I had the wrong one for a second o.0
Quote from: Rowan Rue on February 15, 2013, 02:20:44 AM
Erm, derail much? ::)
What's amusing is being reminded of who and what St Jerome was to the topic, by a person that is not one iota interested in religion in the religious sense of the word :)
Historical revisionism is to me, selectively remembering the past, mine, yours, theirs. For instance, a lot of what we know of Christ was written basically decades after he was gone. Some will even claim the man never even existed.
I can say the same about the man called Leslie Robert to keep it in context with the thread. A lot of my recollections, are coming in now decades after they happened, and when the shrink asks questions like 'what are your earliest memories?' sometimes I want to tell him past a week ago why waste time at all trying to remember, as I rarely can remember at all what I did the year before let alone when I was 5.
I am almost positive some of my memories are actually fragments of bull I have forgotten was deliberate blarney at the time just to impress friends.
I am trying to get the wife to contribute to the forum here mainly as once something is posted on the internet, it becomes almost permanent to some extent. There is no 'oh you didn't say that' to some extent. Her memory sucks. Not that mine is great.
But I really loathe selective memory and the passion some will go to in selectively quoting the past too. The bible's biggest contribution to society comes in the form of massively out of context quotes all based on the idea that if a sentence was written in the book it can never fail to have meaning regardless of the context it was taken in. Most quotes fail the moment you read what came before or what came after the quote.
Quote from: Rowan Rue on February 15, 2013, 02:20:44 AM
Erm, derail much? ::)
Sorry, but what Lesley Roberta said is relevant to why this came up in this context. The play is all about revising histories, and while the focus point is someone who might seem irrelevant to most people, especially those who think that they are beyond religion, his impact on at least European culture, and ideas about sex and sexual identity is fairly profound. I don't tend to pick subjects that are personally distant from my own concerns, and at least part of why I have not pressed harder to promote the piece and see it produced has to do with my feeling that I would really need to be fully out and ready to discuss my own identity openly as part of promoting the piece.
Most of the play centers on selective memory, and how 4 different people, coming from their own particular experiences, interpret and come to very different understandings of some historical figures who are at the same time thought to be well-documented, and yet wind up raising all kinds of puzzles and questions, on which someone in our own culture, including someone with no interest in religion, per se, can project their own concerns, experiences, and come to realize that Jerome and others were much of the basis for a lot of transphobia, homophobia, and anxiety about bodies in general that are highly relevant to both this forum and this thread.
My apologies if I didn't make that explicitly obvious.
Quote from: Elspeth on February 15, 2013, 09:49:50 AM
My apologies if I didn't make that explicitly obvious.
Clear like mud i'm afraid :-\
Quote from: Rowan Rue on February 15, 2013, 12:14:06 PM
Clear like mud i'm afraid :-\
Probably part of the reason the play's unfinished too, though it would be clearer if you'd read it, or been to one of the readings.
The dialogue and some of the interactions in the play itself are very similar to this conversation and other conversations I've had on the subject... or they involve private encounters between the characters, that deal with some very similar issues. You kind of have to be there, and if you're not one of the rare people who can read a script and visualize it, or be at a reading with skilled actors, it's probably a doomed exercise to try to describe it.
I totally understand why you may prefer not to but, perhaps you could post a few excerpts as they pertain to this thread? It does sound very interesting now that the connection is more apparent :)
Thanks for the topic thread Rowan Rue,
As part of my transition I am revisiting very early family history with my 12 brothers and sisters. Now if anyone can, with any certainty, accurately recall verbatim conversations and events of their childhood then they deserve the "photographic memory award." Memories often contain conflated people and events. Listening to a dozen different perspectives about our shared history may be revealing but in the end what does it matter? I too wondered if I was making this stuff up but, the past is gone and done, the future a dream. It's our current lives that we have any real choice about.
I completely repressed episodes in my childhood when my sister called me Tessa and treated me as her sister. Not long ago my sister and I spoke and I said I could now recall "a couple times when that happened." She replied "oh honey we did that for years."
We were born this way and now we get to play our own way.
Hugs,
Tessa James
Quote from: Rowan Rue on February 16, 2013, 02:11:22 PM
I totally understand why you may prefer not to but, perhaps you could post a few excerpts as they pertain to this thread? It does sound very interesting now that the connection is more apparent :)
At this point, at least, it's the gestalt of the play that does this... hopefully it's more than the sum of its parts. Still, I'll take a look and see if I think it will convey anything in excerpt form... the problem being, it's as much about what
isn't said (or at least is never said explicitly), but is present in subtext, based on actions and reactions that have led up to each moment, and the knowledge (hopefully) that the audience member has, since they are privy to the whole story in ways that none of the individual characters (possibly with the exception of Paulie/Paula) happen to be.
It will take some reformatting to allow it to display in proper playscript format... (I usually only distribute it to readers in PDF format at this point).
I'll give it a look-see and get back on this.
This topic is spot on for me. I spent years thinking that my issues where causing me to make up things in my head like being trans. but i finally realized just recently actually that it was to a large extent the other way round. Being trans and trying to deny it then trying to compensate by acting in a certain way, was actually causing most of my issues. Takes a long time to come to terms with this but when you do its like a huge weight is lifted. Of course it throws up a complete set of other problems to overcome but hey thats life. :angel:
Quote from: Rowan Rue on February 16, 2013, 02:11:22 PM
I totally understand why you may prefer not to but, perhaps you could post a few excerpts as they pertain to this thread? It does sound very interesting now that the connection is more apparent :)
Rather that further distract, here are links to PDFs containing the first scene (for context) and the final scene. Please let me know whether these leave you more or less confused. ;) There are still a few typos scattered in there, and please keep in mind, despite how long I've had this in the works, I still consider it a draft at present.
First scene - A Stranger Here Myself (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1tfKZYhe_pSYUdRZEM0cGZuTnc/edit?usp=sharing)
Final scene - A Stranger Here Myself (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1tfKZYhe_pSaUlMNmw4TzltN2s/edit?usp=sharing)
Anyone interested in reading the full script, just ask. There's at least one of the more recent drafts also available there. But I'd prefer to share those links with only those who think they might be willing to read and comment on the entire play, and of course, I'd like to keep that somewhat limited, rather than have the script floating out entirely open to the public, as long as it remains a draft version.
I find it fascinating how quickly after coming out to myself I started to see signs and connections in my own history. Things that on their own probably wouldn't mean anything, but taken in aggregate start to tell a different story.
For example, when I was in high school, I had a guidance counselor point out that I tended to use softer/indirect language when speaking. It didn't click at the time, but my phrasing tended to be more typical of women.
Whenever there would be arguments between the guys and girls, I tended to agree with the girls far more frequently than the guys.
Even some dreams I've had.
Lots if stuff like that.
Didn't think much of them at the time, but looking back, I can totally see patterns in my past feelings and behavior.
Quote from: Tessa James on February 16, 2013, 02:44:46 PM
I completely repressed episodes in my childhood when my sister called me Tessa and treated me as her sister. Not long ago my sister and I spoke and I said I could now recall "a couple times when that happened." She replied "oh honey we did that for years."
So strange what we do and don't remember! As you say, in the end it's what works to allow us to move forward in our lives that matters but still, it's nice when other peoples memories confirm our own beliefs!
Quote from: Shannon1979 on February 16, 2013, 05:58:00 PM
I spent years thinking that my issues where causing me to make up things in my head like being trans. but i finally realized just recently actually that it was to a large extent the other way round. Being trans and trying to deny it then trying to compensate by acting in a certain way, was actually causing most of my issues.
This is exactly where I am. I spent so long trying to make my mothers fight with cancer the cause of my own emotional troubles that I think it really kept my blinded to actual issue of my being trans. And yes, once I accepted that there was a real and present cause of my unhappiness everything made so much more sense. There are still hardships to be overcome, but doing so is much, much esier whn you're addressing the real problem :)
Quote from: Elspeth on February 16, 2013, 09:05:02 PM
Rather that further distract, here are links to PDFs containing the first scene (for context) and the final scene. Please let me know whether these leave you more or less confused. ;)
Thanks Elspeth! I'll read these tomorrow when I'm not slightly drunk ;)
Quote from: JenSquid on February 16, 2013, 11:09:03 PM
I find it fascinating how quickly after coming out to myself I started to see signs and connections in my own history.
Right?! having spent such a long time looking for answers "where the light was good" rather than where the truth lay, I was kinda surprised how much sense things started to make once I identified the real root of the problem.
Who knew it could be something as "simple" as being in the wrong body!
I definitely struggled with this, I used to be into feminism because I hated the way I was treated as a girl. I would always rationalize things to make it okay for me to be a girl and just different, etc.
I ran into the whole "internalized misogyny" concept. Which is legitimate for some people (actual women) but it really messed me up for a while, because everything a ftm person feels can be explained by it. it's fairly common for ftm people to be targeted for "having internalized misogyny". I felt evil for a while because I was convinced I was really a self-hating woman who wanted to destroy myself.
But all of that is really rooted in ignorance. Feminist theory, in deconstructing the gender roles, has started to intrude on transgender topics. A lot of people just run into these new "empowering" labels and create a place for themselves under the "trans* umbrella". This concept actually vilifies people with dysphoria as "enforcing the binary", effectively alienating those who fall under the scientific definition of transgender. They proclaim to change genders on a whim, reducing it completely to the social aspect, actively working to discredit the theory of natural gender.
This is a problem, and yes, there are people making misinformed decisions about their lives. But once I started to question and distance myself from those anything-goes places and look at my own life experiences and others like me who disagree with that part of the movement I was able to be more sure of myself. There is really that core personality in me that is just too hardwired to question, and has never in my life been able to change with the way I interact or what clothes I wear, or what I think of the gender roles.
I know someone will read this and think, "some fool trying to out-special the other snowflakes." People will make so many excuses for dealing with scary things, but the truth will always come through in the end even if it's an ugly truth. There's a lot of fear and confusion in these changing times but we've come so far in history I believe we'll eventually make it to clarity for everyone. Incorporating new information is crucial to the process of science, you're absolutely right, the misapplication of new information is exactly what holds back transgendered people in the world today.
I should really start a blog but..
I guess this is still related to why I started this thread so I'll add it on.
Sorry if it's not as interesting as I seem to think it is. I've only gotten about three hours of nightmare filled sleep so the old brain's not to hot right now.
Anyway
Last night, after I started cutting again I tweeted this.
When I cut, I trade psychic damage for physical, because I'm angry and don't know if I'm right or wrong, but I know I won't fight back.
shortly thereafter a friend pinged me on facebook and we had the following conversation which I'll post here. It's slightly edited.
Friend
Are you ok?
I was going to reply to your tweet, but would rather do it here, where people wouldn't see...
Rowan
Yeah, things have been better
Self harming days generally rank towards the bottom
Friend
it's true
Rowan
I've found that people are very disinclined to listen to, or tolerate another persons anger.
Which is unfortunate because when people start screaming it tends to indicate that they aren't feeling heard
That their boundaries are in a mess and they need to be afforded the space to rebuild them
Yeah,
Friend
yes... anger has to be channelled. It's not so good when it's channelled towards the self. But that seems to be the way of things in this culture (and, um, that culture too I guess) - anger is seen as the individual's problem, and screaming isn't seen as a symptom that someone needs support
the problem with bad habits is that they work; that's why they become habits, after all
Friend
are you managing to get some space>?
Rowan
No.
And I honestly haven't been able to tell for a very long time if my anger is reasonable
That is, it's been pushed back down so often that what I'm angry about gets all confused
Friend
oh hon... well, what matters is not whether your anger is reasonable, but that it exists, so it's something that needs working through
I think it helps to start with the feeling first, and leave the logic until later - starting with the logic seems to make the feelings worse, in my experience
Rowan
Yeah
I don't know where to start
Friend
when I fall back on bad habits, part of it has to do with needing to look after myself, and feeling completely unjustified in needing to - and at least if there is a physical problem then I can start to be kind to myself, at least physically if not emotionally
Rowan
I don't trust my own mind any more
Friend
leave it aside for a little while
just trust your feelings - don't try to shape them into any kind of meaning; just explore them, and don't be afraid to explore them. You have to know them before you can know anything else.
Rowan
I don't know how to do that
Friend
but, yeah, it takes a bit of time and a bit of space.
for me, strangely, walking and showering are the two things that seem to give me time to figure myself out
Rowan
It's just such a mess in there
Friend
are you working? I don't even know what time it is there! but do you have any free time today? Or could you even call in sick? Getting yourself through a day like this is just as important as getting yourself through, like, a cold or something
Rowan
It's 5:30am
Friend
holy ->-bleeped-<-!
go somewhere beautiful to watch the sun rise
you've got about an hour and a half, I reckon
Rowan
I've actually had the worst head cold for a couple of days now
Friend
and if you can take the rest of the day off, so much the better
Rowan
That would be nice. It's going to be a long grey dawn though.
And it's February cold and damp out there so I think I'll pass in the getting out if bed.
Friend
that's probably very wise, given the head cold
Friend
if there was one thing you could do right now - however crazy or mundane - that would make you feel better, what would it be?
take a while to answer; don't get stressed if you don't know straight away
Rowan
Ok
Friend
and if you want to talk/write/vent/chat more, let me know x
I haven't told ANYONE about self-harming - except the boyfriend, obviously; it's hard to hide - but not even Ali knows. So it's kind of good to talk about it.
Rowan
Yeah, people just get scared,
But at least they don't yell back.
Usually
Friend
in my case, it's more that I feel kind of ashamed. My family's default response to everything is "get a grip" - which, ironically, was probably the catalyst for it all. It kind of allows me to be a very high-functioning crazy person.
In my case, yelling is always preferable - but I'm a hot-headed aries! It's the quiet I can't stand.
Rowan
Did you see/read the cloud atlas?
Friend
nope, neither read nor seen it, but it looks really interesting!
Rowan
This conversation is feeling kind of cloud atlas
Friend
how so?
Rowan
It's weird, but of of all the people who know me from back home,
You might know me better now than anyone else.
Something about shared history without much
What's the word
Friend
naw I just know some stuff about you. It's the fact we didn't talk much back then that makes it easier to talk now
Rowan
Preconceptions
It's so hard to deal with the notion that my sister and my dad have an experience if me that goes against who I think I am
Friend
you know, their experience of you goes much deeper than that. It might feel like everything is changing, but a lot of what is changing is the outward stuff, about how you relate to the world. People who have known you all your life might take a while to adjust to that, but they still know *you*; you haven't lost who you've been all these years, just because you've found a better sense of yourself more recently
Rowan
It doesn't feel like everything is changeling to me though.
But it does to them
And it makes me feel like I'm making things up
That I can't trust my own sense if self
Friend
unfortunately, you can't ask people to deal with things in a way that makes it easier for you; you can only remind yourself not to take their issues personally
you need to draw a line between what you feel and what others feel - or what you think others feel
Rowan
That's the problem, if I do that then I have no reference point for me! Any idea I have if who I am becomes completely internal, a lie.
Friend
that suggests you define yourself entirely in relation to other people and other people's perceptions of you
who you are *is* completely internal; it becomes external when you express it outwardly. But there's nothing wrong in taking time to get to know & build up your sense of self
Rowan
What use is a completely subjective sense of self?
Friend
eh, if you take it far enough, there's nothing in life that *isn't* subjective...
what use is an objective sense of self?
Rowan
Illusion of the self and all that
Stupid ->-bleeped-<-ing Buddha
Can you see how having an internal sense of self that doesn't even conform to ones own body can be very existentially scary?
Friend
very
but if you're defining yourself by how others see you, it's no wonder you feel like you need space
what things make you feel more like you?
Rowan
Huh, I suppose so...
I don't know
I feel like an actor ego woke up and realized their whole life had been a role, and couldn't remember who they were before.
I guess I'm hoping there's a new script in the mail.
Friend
it's not in the mail; you're going to have to write it yourself
ahh I love metaphors...
Rowan
What does make me feel more like me are the little moments when i see a girl in the mirror
She looks like me
Friend
and what says "girl" to you?
what I mean is - is there something you could do, today, to give yourself a boost? Like try on some clothes, or (I don't know) get a manicure?
Rowan
Well, that's the hormones working, slowly changing my physical appearance
Friend
but there must be some things you can do that bring your inner sense of self a little more to the surface...
Rowan
Yeah, I have to remember to take time to put in eyeshadow because it makes my day so much easier.
Friend
like that! cool
but something more
something you can do to nurture yourself
Rowan
My wife gets kinda frustrated with me if I spend too much time doing makeup and stuff
Friend
hahaha that makes you SUCH a typical girl!
Rowan
She doesn't really understand what it's like if I don't though..
Friend
she doesn't have to; all you need to do is insist on doing it, because this is who you are now
that might sound harsh, but ultimately, the only little bit of the word you have control over is yourself
but it's amazing how you can shape the rest of the world if you manage your little bit of it well
Rowan
It's more about the amount if time i spend
Friend
K hates me waking up early to spend half an hour eating breakfast every morning
Rowan
She's really bad at taking time for herself and gets resentful when I take time for me
Friend
I don't care; my breakfast is non-negotiable
Rowan
Never negotiate over breakfast!
I'm tweeting that
Friend
the thing is, if you are firm about what you need, people eventually get over it and start to respect it
but you have to hold your ground for a while, which is easier said than done
yeah, breakfast is sacred time
Rowan
Yeah, this has helped me understand why I need that.
Which at least makes it easier to explain.
It 's funny, my wife does all this modeling work, but takes almost zero time for herself on a day to day basis
Friend
yeah
the thing is, you're the only person who can know what you need. No-one else can know. Some people can make an educated guess but you should never be afraid to ask for what you need.
Rowan
Thanks, I think I feel a little better
Friend
that's why I put up with K's crazy career, as well; it's not that I'm amazingly impressed by aid work - it's good work, but it has its grey areas. But if he didn't do this, he wouldn't be *him*.
me too, actually
thanks! x
Rowan
Yay!
Not sure that I feel any less crazy, but definitely a bit happier
Friend
definitely
just remember to spend more time doing things that make you feel more like you
Rowan
Think I'll try for a couple of hours sleep before I gave to get up and go to my actual therapists appointment!
Good friend you got there, Rowan. Listen to her!
"Breakfast is non-negotiable." There's profundity in that somehow.
Truly, thank you for sharing that. Your partner's issues are her own... it's very hard to cope with someone when they leap to conclusions about what you need. And knowing yourself is really not a trivial thing... many never manage to do it at all. Seems to me it has benefits, but I can't speak for everyone.
Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on February 20, 2013, 11:03:31 AM
Good friend you got there, Rowan. Listen to her!
Oh I intend to.
It's funny, a lot of what she said was the same advice I've given to other people here on the forum, and it's good advice!
Just, knowing it your heart is so much harder than knowing it in your head.
Quote from: Elspeth on February 20, 2013, 12:59:34 PM
"Breakfast is non-negotiable." There's profundity in that somehow.
Truly, thank you for sharing that. Your partner's issues are her own... it's very hard to cope with someone when they leap to conclusions about what you need. And knowing yourself is really not a trivial thing... many never manage to do it at all. Seems to me it has benefits, but I can't speak for everyone.
Yes, so true. My wife has been really wonderful but she can't understand everything i'm going through and just as you say, she's her own person with her own issues.
Quote from: Rowan Rue on February 20, 2013, 10:55:11 AM
And I honestly haven't been able to tell for a very long time if my anger is reasonable
That is, it's been pushed back down so often that what I'm angry about gets all confused
You'll take advantage till you think you're being used
'cuz without an enemy our anger gets confused,
I got stuck on a side you know I never chose
but it's all about taking the easy way out for you, I suppose--Elliott Smith, "Easy Way Out"