There is only one thing I think I feel nervous about leaving behind in transition. My identity as a lesbian. I know it seems strange, and like it would be so incongruent with my gender identity. But I really latched on to my identity in the LGBT community. When I was young , I didn't have friends really, I didn't fit in anywhere, I was kind of a social outcast, a paraiah. Then when I was around 14, I came out as a lesbian (that's what I thought I was, I placed all my gender dysphoria onto that) it was like I was accepted for the first time in my life. I wasn't just accepted, I was popular. Like all the things that made me such an outcast growing up made me attractive all of a sudden It was the total reverse of my life up until that point. It was the first time I was made to feel like I wasn't a freak. I liked girls, I thought they were pretty, and I messed around with them, so what? I didn't like dressing or acting girly, I wanted to wear my hair short and wear boy's clothes, so what? It was like a family for me. I know it's irrational, but I feel like I'm abandoning them.
I don't doubt who I am, I'm not a girl. But it just feels weird to say I'm straight. maybe it's just something that takes time to get used to. Idk, it's like I'm ready to leave everything else about who I used to be behind, but this is the one thing I feel nostalgic about. Like I'm losing a part of me. I know I'm still in the LGBT community by default, but the LGB is so far away from the T. Like on different planets practically.
Am I the only one having a hard time giving this up?
I really can't say I can relate to you. Even though the first person I liked was female I never felt lesbian. It may be because I am ace (asexual), but I don't think so because I had no idea that asexuals even existed at that time.
I can however relate to feeling like loosing your social family. I went on this school for roleplayers (a school you live on for 1.2 years, it's hard to explain) and when I stopped going there it felt like I lost my family in two ways 1. most didn't accept me as a guy and 2. I didn't go there anymore. After this I have visited the older generations and I still feel part of the family. That may be similar to how you are still part of LGBT, but I'm not sure.
I hope that wasn't nonsense.
I relate to that to some extent. I had been asking myself how I felt about the same issue because it was a big part of my ifentity, but then it doesn't matter how I feel about it, it's the same regardless so I won't worry about it lol. :-)
It will go on my 'purge from thoughts' list. :-)
Quote from: Darkflame on February 26, 2013, 07:15:12 AM
Am I the only one having a hard time giving this up?
yes :P
ok well theres how many billion people? im sure you arent the first!
the first time i ever said 'im straight' to someone, i was like "huh?!" that being said try not to think of it as LGB T
try to think of it as a giant F'ked up queer rainbow where you can just be yourself regardless, you aren't abandoning your old self, just embracing your true self, and there is a lot of value in that, you arent losing anything at all? its just a word :/ you still like girls ^_^
Note: im tired.
@Steph: youre looking great!
Awww thanks Geek... You just completely made my day :-) x
I guess it's the only genuine thing about me that's directly tied back to my birth gender. Like I honest to god still think of myself as a dyke, even though I don't think of myself as female, and it makes me feel weird/guilty. Like a fake. The guilt over it was the most difficult part, I feel better just getting it off my chest.
I think the biggest part is about my social identity, I have tons of LGB friends, I know the community like the back of my hand, I've been Dyke 101 to a few of my girlfriends. I don't know any trans people IRL (I met a couple when I was younger, but I've long since lost touch) and I guess it's just the whole new territory/unknown thing. It helps to think I'm just a person, I still like girls. That's good advice ^-^. I haven't really changed, just making the outside match the inside :)
You're not the only one to have trouble giving it up. I remember UppercaseChase over on YouTube seemed to have trouble leaving it too.
I was never very active in the lesbian community, but I think that is part of what made it take awhile to realize I was Trans. I liked being a lesbian. But, I was more active in the feminist community, and though I can still be supportive of weekends rights as a transguy, it just doesn't feel the same reading Bust when I identify as male. I think out can just take some time to readjust how you view your place and rules in society after you realize your true identity.
I had a hard time giving it up ... I think to some degree I still do .... I tend to say my sexual orientation is queer .. I am not ready to say I am heterosexual
My belief is that I spent too much of my life trying to fit into a box that I felt most comfortable in ....and not I saw screw the boxes ... I am trans & I feel most comfortable hanging out with my trans, gay, lesbian and queer friends. I don't think i will be ever comfortable in the "straight" world and I am okay with that.
I go with queer now as well.
I don't consider myself straight even though I exclusively like women. I can bring different and unique things into a relationship with another woman than a cisgender straight guy such as past experiences, emotional range, etc - might as well own it. However, I'm male thus not a lesbian - - so queer it is.
I see confusion on the horizon though, as queer could be read as any number of things given an outward male appearance. Oh well.
Quote from: LearnedHand on February 26, 2013, 11:10:42 AM
You're not the only one to have trouble giving it up. I remember UppercaseChase over on YouTube seemed to have trouble leaving it too.
I agree. You might look up his earlier videos, but he actually IDed as a lesbian trans guy which got him all sorts of trouble for awhile. I think he has given this up now, but it took him awhile. I think you have a ready made community there. I never identified as lesbian so I don't know but there are guys in my support group that did, and they had some trouble too.
--Jay
QuoteLike I honest to god still think of myself as a dyke, even though I don't think of myself as female, and it makes me feel weird/guilty.
That is how I felt in the L community. Home, but not exactly right at home.
Natural for it to seem odd at first. Think it can be that way no matter how we identified before. I identify as a slightly bent straight guy who still treasures all friends of any persuasion.
I know the feeling, and I hate it. I think that the best way to go about it (if safe in your life/community) is to just be a super-out trans man. I've always been a big queer, and I don't plan on stopping identifying as such just because I'm "straight" now. The more I "fit in" as a straight person the more boring being a straight person seems to me. I tend to spend more time with other queers (male or female), and it works for me.
Identity is a funny thing. I still sometimes think of myself as a male lesbian, and in many ways I suppose I am.
There's a trans man I'm good friends with, who despite his identity as a man also sees himself as a lesbian by virtue of seeing his body as female. Which in many ways is fair enough. He's also stated that he doesn't see his identity as an 'endpoint', but rather as the label that best describes his sexuality.
I feel similar, but in a unique way I guess, because I am pansexual. It makes me feel really uncertain about finding potential partners as a male. I have learned to flirt and date men and women as my birth gender, I feel like after completing my transition and passing completely I will need to learn a whole new dynamic. It makes me uncomfortable to think about. Not enough to prevent me from being myself of course.
This is so true I can relate in all aspects of what you have said, Makes me kind of sit back and think..........Now What.....
I can somewhat relate, with me still living life as a woman, most people would probably see me as a lesbian. I really didn't feel close to the lesbin community, but that was the closest thing I could identify with before I realized I was trans. I do wish I could just be a lesbian though. For me, it would be so much easier than being trans.
I was never really able to call myself a lesbian, because it suggested I was female, but I do understand...really, the lesbian community opened me with welcome arms, but in transitioning I was definitely losing some of that support. It was hard. But I got used to it...I realized I can be an ally to lesbians, without being a lesbian. I can still show support and understanding, just in a different way.
It's hard to leave groups that have been welcoming.
I never became part of the LGB community (I was aware of transsexualism around the same time I learned of homosexuality so couldn't honestly think of myself as a lesbian), but I've been in various social circles, and it's always tough losing that social group, and sense of belonging.
However now you're forging your identity as a man. Essentially you're growing up (possibly "again" not knowing your age). It's a given you're a queer positive heterosexual man, but there is more to life than sexuality to define you. Figure out what those things are. Try new things related to your interests. Feel you can maintain your friendships with the queer community, but remember that you are now part of the growing population of heterosexual people who are accepting.
Puberty and thus redefining yourself, sucks, even the second time around sometimes ;)
Hopefully there aren't any lesbians who think you're a traitor to the cause and giving you a rough time. I know my lesbian sister had to get over her disappointment that I wasn't going to be a masculine woman and stand against gender stereo-types. Years later she acknowledges that she wasn't fair to me, and that it was her issue rather than anything I did, which was nice to hear.
Shortman
I came from the straight world with no LGBT friends, so navigating transition was very new to me. I had people I knew to be lesbians and some I knew to be gay, but they were people I knew from work, or other places, and were not friends I saw as I went about my daily life. Add in a straight marriage and kids, and voila pretty much all of your friends by default are straight people married with kids.
Transition was navigating a whole new world for sure. Then to realize OMG I'm GAY. Now what? So I went from the socially acceptable, standard issue, yawn inducing straight world into the life of a gay man. I fit in with my gay men friends, but suddenly feel uninformed. I didn't know who the legendary gay activists were. I hadn't watched all of the gay movies. I didn't know all of the lingo. And I really didn't know what they had been through as teens, coming out, etc. because even though I was uncomfortable as a kid and teen, I didn't know I was trans and wasn't bullied or anything for being me. I was just socially awkward and introverted.
So now I'm trying to navigate the world as a gay man without the lifetime of reference points surrounding that. And my cis male gay SO is trying to get me up to speed, but I'm nowhere near there.
Jay
I remember Eddie Izzard (cross-dressing comedian) saying at some point that he identified best as a male lesbian. Don't know if that helps at all in the not-feeling-alone-ness.
I cant really relate as im never really been lesbian or in there comunety, but
I know one transguy who had been in the lesbian comunety, and he is manly into girls even when he got exeptions as he transitioned, but now he generally call himself queer, or try not to label himself cause he dosent feel that confortable being straight and trans.
I think even if we leave a comunety which we loved and had fellings for we will always have the parts in us. I have left a couple of comunetys over time which havent fit me, but still I have friends, there and grown up like a famely to me. its hard to leave as you feel like your saying goodbye, but dont let it be that dramatical, let it be a new start, your still to remember the good memories and take your knowlegde in the back with other things.
I think I can relate, in a way. I have always considered myself to be gay (as in, man on man) regardless of my female body. That's why I have entered that community, especially online (in real life its pretty hard when you still look like a woman). The thought of leaving that community behind is really hard for me too, and the fear of liking girls when starting T is certainly present.
I think it just becomes a part of you and your identity, so its hard to see yourself as something else. Labels are easy to get used to, after all, and give us a peace of mind in a way.
well I identify as an autism person for many years,
it wasnt after I moved to a normal school and some of my friends started to questionate me and I started to questionate myself of what it actually ment.
I dont remember why I got the dignose or when, it was just something I had hold on to a habbit, or someone I grew up with. and my whole life I had this felling that I was diffrent than the ones outside. as I begane to come outside I saw they wasnt so diffrent as I had expected and I started to get sceptical.
But it also took me a long time and I did cry about it, cause I felt like I would cut out part of me if it showed out that I in fact didnt had the dignose after all. its not really reason, but as I say lesbian or not, or whatever you are I think you can stil carry it in your back.
even if my doctor tell me I am not an autism and all the years I have belived so have been wrong, then Its still where I grew up so I want to remain the memories.
Wow, that must've been an experience, thinking you had an autism diagnosis and finding out you didn't . My sister has autism, I never thought I'd hear somebody actually like/want it. I guess it's because I saw her face some pretty bad stuff because of it, I had some pretty serious "talks" with kids her age who would be jerks to her. She did get some really good friends who would watch out for her, and all her teachers and TA's loved her to bits. I guess it's the feeling of community and knowing what you are.
Nobody can ever take the memories away, you grew up as an autistic kid, and I grew up as a dyke teen. That's what it was even if that's not what it is now. That's how I'm trying to think of it :)
I definitely identify as being autistic/Aspy.
--Jay
Quote from: kyh on February 28, 2013, 07:03:39 PM
I think it could be the fact that the difference between the way a stud/butch lesbian looks and the way an everyday straight guy looks is not so profound. While you were identifying as a lesbian, you were allowed to be yourself to an extent right? You could have short hair, wear guy clothes and like girls. On top of that, you got a community that accepted and welcomed you. So, in a way, you're not gaining as much from transitioning (excuse the awkward way of putting it) as someone who had none of those things. Does that make any sense? :3
I think when the roles are reversed, and you have a male to female transsexual, the difference between having a gay male identity and having a straight female identity is more pronounced.
For example, I used to identify as a gay male, but I got nothing from that. I wasn't allowed to have long hair, I wasn't allowed to wear the clothes I wanted, put on makeup or do anything like that. And I wasn't accepted in the gay community at all. My identity as a gay male was not even close to who I truly was. The only thing I had in my gay identity that matched my true self, was the fact that I liked guys.
And so for me, beginning to transition marks a point where I get to look the way I want, and act the way I want. I get to be myself 100%.
So yeah :) Hope that wasn't confusing or offensive!
I actually think that's a huge part of it. I post facebook pics on my current account which is still my birth name and gender. The same way I've been dressed going out and passing 90% of the time. And nobody has noticed the difference. I was a dressing little more feminine before I started transition, but I've gone through periods of time where I was dressed masculine enough to pass (periods meaning huge chunks of time like 2 years straight) That's why it took me so long to come out as trans, I could completely express my gender identity and it was approved and encouraged by my lesbian friends. To them I was breaking the gender binary, saying f*** you to gender roles. Not so much what it really was. I was binding 24/7 and going out with the express purpose of passing and I still self identifying as a dyke. It wasn't till I fully and completely realized there was more to it than that that I put in more effort to be girlier. Which was still considered butch. Physically it doesn't look that different. The only thing I'm gaining really from transition is my own sense of feeling "right" which is a pretty big thing, big enough that I'm willing to lose the community that took me in with open arms. I haven't told most of my lesbian friends yet, besides my ex girlfriend. They might be open and accepting, they might not. Idk yet.
As for the aspy/autistic thing. I know a few guys who identify as aspy, and it's generally treated completely different from autism, like the line there is really pronounced when it comes to the spectrum and what people identify as. Like I know quite a few aspies, but I haven't met anyone who calls themselves autistic in my day to day life. I guess that's where the confusion comes from.
I ID'd as lesbian for a month or so between my first serious boyfriend and coming out as trans, and I still kinda miss it--like, if I could be a cis lesbian tomorrow? I'd jump on that. But I can't, I'm me, and I'm a guy. :D
I do like, though, people who talk about their identities as having history--you're right, you were a dyke as a teenager! You can have those memories and not feel like you're lying about who you were in them. I remember one of the editors of Autostraddle (back when I read it--once I realized I was a dude it was weird to be there so I left) said she identifies as bisexual, not because she's into guys, but because she used to be and she wanted to honor that past part of herself. It's a bit invasive to be male and claim to be 'lesbian' but you can still speak of your past self as being lesbian without being un-genuine, I think. :)
Quote from: Natkat on February 28, 2013, 02:17:34 PM
well I identify as an autism person for many years,
(Off topic fellow I-like-being-an-autistic-person high five!)
I love meeting my fellow neuroatypicals!
Quote from: Darkflame on February 28, 2013, 05:07:44 PM
Wow, that must've been an experience, thinking you had an autism diagnosis and finding out you didn't . My sister has autism, I never thought I'd hear somebody actually like/want it. I guess it's because I saw her face some pretty bad stuff because of it, I had some pretty serious "talks" with kids her age who would be jerks to her. She did get some really good friends who would watch out for her, and all her teachers and TA's loved her to bits. I guess it's the feeling of community and knowing what you are.
Nobody can ever take the memories away, you grew up as an autistic kid, and I grew up as a dyke teen. That's what it was even if that's not what it is now. That's how I'm trying to think of it :)
yeah I dont think people want to be autism, exept if your an artist or really loves computers and is looking for a job, for the bulling fact and so.
I dont know yet if I have it or not, which is a rather akward situation to be in. but I is consider to be re-dignosed to check cause I somehow feel restless by not knowing anything, as I always have to explain myself with a stupid "IDK"sentence and is stuck between. "we dont think its good you have a dignose" and "we feel your too normal for this kind of things" answers.
I somehow suspect that I dont have autism but my dignose been based on other things I got. Back in time when I got dignose it wasnt posible to dignose kids with ->-bleeped-<-. and its still not, So years later I been told by my parrents that the hospital didnt knew why I was diffrent, I just where, But they thought maybe I had a mild caise of autism. Yet, I never felt as being a typical autism and as I went to a normal school I got very suspecious, I got
in touch with a girl who was not dignosed autism but was sure she got it as she had very typical clear autism sign in her, and we talked alot and made me take an test who showed I was neither autism neither, normal (whatever that makes me?) together with that I also looked up autism for girls in my moms magazin and it sounded so much like me, but not on a autism-view but from a trans view things like.
"usunally nobody understands them, the girls tend to be lonely and join subcultures where they can express there "diffrence"
I was kinda like that when I was younger, but not cause I was autism, but because I was a nerd, and a transgender person, and such things. at the same time I found some typical "autism signs" on a website on how you could see if your transgender kid might be dignosed, and it sounded like something you could say about autism people, yet I also had done many of those things, who where part of me being trans, ex I like to be alone, I always have, but when I where in the closet I where alone pretty much all the time, and now im out im less alone. I where also more violance when I where not accepted, and my attacts kind of reminds of some of the guys at my school tend to get, but people who knows me know knows me as a very claim person.
I get that it's not something that you want so much as something that just feels like it is. Like having brown eyes, or liking the color red. The little things that make up the background of who we are as a person. They don't seem important to us and then when we question them we feel like we don't know who we are completely anymore and it makes us panic. We want to know who we are. Despite many people choosing, with many good reasons, to live without labels, many of us stick them to ourselves liberally. Because it helps us understand ourselves and gives us security. Some people don't need labels to understand themselves. They know whatever vague general idea they have of themselves is 100% them even if they don't know what the hell to call it. I'm not that kind of person :P I've never been. I like science and I like calling something what it is, finding out as much about it as I can and living my life knowing and acknowledging all my different labels. I kind of guess that's where most of us are coming from here. We just want to know who the hell we are and whenever we reevaluate ourselves it causes uncertainty. It was what it was and it is what it is, my general philosophy of life and many things.
Woah, I sound really deep here. It's mostly because I'm kind of sick and I've spent the whole day in bed just thinking about everything :o Like I probably need to do something mindless for a while :P Can't help that I just marathoned Shinsekai Yori :o
I think people also like not feeling alone. With labels, we attach ourselves alongside others who also use the label, and it can maybe give us comfort. It certainly also gives many a sense of community.