I decided I should finally "come out" to the people that I considered to be "on the fence" and I was pretty scared but I had a lot of positive experience so far so I felt ready. I've told 2 on the fence people so far and they each are very different type of guys but they have been decent friends since the 9th grade of high school.
Friend 1: We haven't talked a ton for the last 3 years but we are still connected via facebook and texting every once in a while. He is a very serious christian and I remember multiple times from high school him referencing that homosexuality was wrong and he was a big time bible guy. So I told him that I needed to talk to him about something pretty serious in my life and that I know he will have assumptions once I tell him, but if for some reason he didn't want to accept me, I told him to just keep it to himself please and I wouldn't bother him anymore. He agreed to the terms and seemed pretty anxious to hear me out. I started by linking him to a known MtF individual to try and show that we aren't just men trying to be women once he understood what it was because I didn't tell him who she was yet. Then I went I wrote a 2 page letter explaining what it means and everything. He reacted by saying that he accepts me for who I am and it doesn't bother him at all. He then said, "back in high school, I would of not been okay with it, but my image of the LGBTQ community has changed a lot and I'm not someone to judge you, nor do I think it's wrong even." I was really surprised by his answer, he was just as supportive as other people I had told and I was definitely expecting a bad reaction.
Friend 2: He was a friend of mine I met in 9th grade as well but he was one of my good basketball friends who I had played with on the team and outside of school all the time. He is very different from me, he acts a little bit ghetto, but he's actually extremely smart and he has a good head on his shoulders, but I always knew he wasn't good friends with anyone who was gay or anything, and considering our past, I didn't expect telling him to go well either. I did the same thing with him that I did with "friend 1" and his reaction was that he was admired by my courage to tell him and to actually be myself and not to live a lie like so many people. He told me that he didn't find me weird or crazy or a man trying to be a woman. He completely accepted me and said to not give a damn what other people thought about me because they would be too scared to be themselves most likely. He also asked me lots of questions and seemed to genuinely care and was definitely accepting.
Now I feel pretty good after telling both of them because I was really nervous about telling each of them, but they both accepted me and seem to support me right away and still want to hang out when I come back home.
Okay now other people I need to tell but I'm extremely terrified at this point.
Friend 3: He is a pretty good friend of mine that I met through a mutual group of friends wayyy back when and I have told them already and they were extremely accepting, but I wasn't concerned about them. As for this friend, we would all(Him, I and the mutual friends) would be nerdy and play a video game called World of Warcraft, eat pizza, watch tv, drink, etc... and there were numerous times he would joke about how he didn't understand gay men at all and he thought they were extremely weird and there were other times that we would go out to eat or something and the waitress wasn't very attracted and again he would joke she was a man or something. So after hearing those type of comments, I'm pretty concerned on what to think that will happen or how to come out to him exactly because I'm at the point that I need to now. So what do you guys think I should do about telling him?
Friend 4: Now this one is probably the most complicated and has the most potential to be disastrous to be honest. I've known her for about 3 years because she happens to be the girl that I dated with 2 years and almost married. We had an extremely bad break up, and we are barely civil at this point, but we have texted occasionally and she does seem to want to keep in contact with me. Now, there are some other issues that come with telling her besides that she is an ex; I have told a different ex already and she fully supported me. However with this girl, when we were together, she figured out that I liked girl clothes but that is all she figured out. So, we were already having issues in the relationship and then this came up and she freaked out somewhat and then tried to be supportive and was very adamant about saying "You are just a crossdresser right? You don't want to be a woman or anything right????(in a very serious tone)" So at first I just said "Of course not" and at that point, I really didn't know, so I wasn't lying at the time. Then I decided to test the waters and bring it up again at one point and say something along the lines of "What if I did become a girl? Would you be okay with that?(something like that)" And her reply was "Ummm NO, if you figure out you're gay, fine I will accept that but you better not become a woman, I will be disgusted and hate you and I will be so mad at you that you would do that to me if you did that because we were each others first and you were a woman, more ranting, more ranting....." So obviously her reaction was extremely bad but there were other things going on, so it's possible she was overreacting but I should also add that her family is extremely catholic and although she isn't as much, she still is. Should I even consider telling her? I probably shouldn't because of our situation, but it really saddens me to think she won't be in my life at all because she meant so much to me for so long and was such an important part of my college life and I have so many memories with her. So if you can think of any way I could possibly tell her and have her not freak out, please help because the truth is I definitely care about her a lot still and probably always will.
I was thinking of putting this in another post but I might as well add it here because it has to do with the same thing. I told my parents quite a while back and they have always said they would accept me no matter what and they haven't had an issue with it but at the same time, they have never been very involved so I'm a little worried. My parents are fairly liberal but I always remember my dad making comments like "you're a male, if you were born a girl, I would probably be more involved about who you dated and stuff", that's just one example, there were others. Since telling them, they haven't really brought it up much, nor have they asked me very many questions about it. I've noticed my other friends are constantly harassed by parents via the phone, but mine NEVER call me or anything except for like once every 2 months and usually I'm the one who contacts them. Should I be worried about this relationship with my parents? Does anyone else have parents who aren't very involved, but when you confront them about it, they act like they haven't done anything wrong and they act like they are involved? If so, please help!
So, I'm pretty nervous about telling those two friends in general but so far I'm 2/2 out of other "on the fence" people and so that gives me some confidence. Sorry for such a long post, this stuff was on my mind and I really need some help and I wanted to share the good news of telling the first two people. I love you guys!
Emma
Cherish these friends, lassie. They are friends indeed.
For the other two, and in general, I think it helps if you have no expectations. That is, if you go into it prepared to lose them, and ready to let them go. If they go, it hurts less; if they don't, your friendship will likely be stronger for it.
</generic encouragement>
Isn't it great when you get surprised by those you don't expect to be accepting? I hope telling the next two go as smoothly for you.
Also I wouldn't worry to much about telling your ex as she is just that, unless you had thoughts about getting back together with her in the future. As far as how to tell her just do what you been doing so far. If she brings up the past. And that discussion in particular,
Quote"You are just a crossdresser right? You don't want to be a woman or anything right?(in a very serious tone)" So at first I just said "Of course not" and at that point, I really didn't know, so I wasn't lying at the time.
Tell her the same thing you said here. "That at the time you did not know."
Hugs
Bethany
Quote from: EmmaS on March 01, 2013, 12:13:46 PM
I was thinking of putting this in another post but I might as well add it here because it has to do with the same thing. I told my parents quite a while back and they have always said they would accept me no matter what and they haven't had an issue with it but at the same time, they have never been very involved so I'm a little worried. My parents are fairly liberal but I always remember my dad making comments like "you're a male, if you were born a girl, I would probably be more involved about who you dated and stuff", that's just one example, there were others. Since telling them, they haven't really brought it up much, nor have they asked me very many questions about it. I've noticed my other friends are constantly harassed by parents via the phone, but mine NEVER call me or anything except for like once every 2 months and usually I'm the one who contacts them. Should I be worried about this relationship with my parents? Does anyone else have parents who aren't very involved, but when you confront them about it, they act like they haven't done anything wrong and they act like they are involved? If so, please help!
Emma
First, I'm glad things are going well with your friends. Like ZoeM said, I find it best to go into it expecting to lose them. If you don't it feels that much better.
Next, I wouldn't worry too much about your parents. Some parents just don't talk too often to their children. My dad calls once a week because his mother used to make him do it when she was alive, and he is a creature of habit. The only thing he wants to know is if I am doing OK. He wants no other details, and doesn't want to know anything else. The only other thing he asks, which is not every time, is how my son (his grandson) is doing. I know he loves me, and accepts me. He just doesn't have anything he wants to talk to me about.
If you want a better relationship with your parents, I suggest you call them more. It worked with my mom. Before I came out we would only talk about every month or two. After I came out I really wanted to be closer with her so I started calling her once a week. Now we talk about every other day. Hang in there, it can get better.
I don't think you should tell your ex if she said those things to you before. Of course, I'm a bit on the fence about telling people in general if you aren't close with them right now. Would you tell them if you were having your appendix taken out? Prob not. I know it's not exactly the same thing but I just don't think people have a right to know anything. You have a right to be yourself. That's it. If it could cause you potential harm, don't. I plan on going full stealth though so I may have different views then most and I don't really get the whole "you have a moral obligation to tell people." Not saying you think that. But sometimes peole on this board make me feel like my plans are wrong and that stealth is some kind of disservice to future trans women. I refuse to suffer anymore. It's my life. Just my two cents. Hope it goes well, telling them that is! :-*
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I would go along with muuu and Joanna. Unless you interact with your Ex(Friend 4) and Friend 3 regularly it would seem to me there is no reason to even tell them. If you do wont to tell them go in expecting the worst; then anything else is a pleasant surprise. Sometimes it's best just to let the past die and move on. Doing that is not the end of the world, I did it, and your no more alone then you were when hiding your true self from them. It's actually empowering. Try not to let your mind blur the line between friend and acquaintance, acquaintances need to know nothing nor do you have any obligation to them. No one wonts to be alone I understand but if I recall you mentioned that you had joined a group recently. It mite be healthier to make new friends there, ones that will have no issue with who you really are. In a sense it is like moving across the country by yourself to another state; you start with a clean slate and proceed to make a new network of friends <--- friends( people that will help you anyway,anytime, with no excuses).
You can try calling your parents more often and as long as the conversations remain civil some good could come out of doing that.
If you are not really close to your friend 3 and your ex I think best thing is not to tell them yet. At least for time being. May be somewhere down the line you can tell them but not just yet. If they accept you it will be great. But if some nasty comments came from it will ended up you getting hurt, what I feel mostly likely to happened after reading what you have written on your post. So I think it is not a risk you should take this moment.
About your parents, I think best way is to keep in touch with them. Even though they accept you and love you it will take some time to get used to love you as their daughter. Remember they loved you as someone else through out your life and to change the way they show their love and affection can take time. Just keep in touch them.
I have 1 friend. That's all. And I only see him once a year for a couple of hours. We don't even really talk. I know he would not accept me.
I don't even have a facebook page.
I don't know why you would want to tell people you rarely see or interact with. Seems like a lot of trouble to me.
My guesses, and keep in mind they are just guesses, but my first impression is that Friend 3 is gay. That kind of joking is pretty typical for someone at that age testing the waters with friends, while being in a kind of denial. I could be wrong, but if you haven't been in contact for some time, you might want to just find out through mutual friends whether he's moved on from this particular phase in order to decide how and what you feel you need to tell him.
#4 sounds like my own ex in some ways -- who, after divorcing me so she could have a chance at a relationship with a "real man" seemed to realize that she didn't actually like men all that much (I could have told her that, but other things I told her about herself didn't go so well, and sometimes you just have to let people discover things on their own terms and timetables). She does have a need to seek social approval and avoid embarrassment, and is deeply concerned about losing status with colleagues based on her history and associations (she has voiced this again, now that we are going through my son's coming out and decisionmaking about transitioning -- going so far as to say that she has had no problems being open with her colleagues back when our son was being identified as lesbian by default and openly dating women, yet she does worry about their reactions and how to deal with his transition when talking to some of her more conservative partners). It says something about her (your ex's) insecurities that she would phrase things in these terms:
Quote"I will be disgusted and hate you and I will be so mad at you that you would do that to me if you did that because we were each others first and you were a woman..."
As you point out, maybe it's the religious background, or maybe something else she is hiding from in herself? Not sure I have any great advice on this, other than to listen to what she's saying now, and decide whether it's an appropriate time now, or later.
Would the consequences be worse, do you think, if she found out from a mutual friend, instead of from you?
For me, since we have children together and share joint custody, and have to communicate fairly frequently, I try to wait for openings when my ex is more likely to be able to listen rather than just react. I still think that my original impression, that she (my ex) was a deeply closeted, in-denial "baby butch" may still be true, and I don't really want to close any doors... it's not like I'm expecting to find someone more perfect for me than she was, despite her issues and insecurities.
Listen in particular to the part of that sentence about "we were each other's firsts" -- that tells me that the anger is coming from an attachment that is still there, a wound that is still open, at least for her (you haven't said enough for me to know where you really stand with her). It sounds like you still have something to resolve, something only you can really judge the right timing for, based on context and whatever the nature of your remaining relationship might be.
My first was a lesbian. And she started sleeping with girls the very next night after we had sex! I suppose I convinced her men didn't have much to offer:/
I just came out out en masse over facebook. Got about 100 or so friends to be totally ok with it, all of whom I still associate with. I'm sure I'll lose some when the process actually starts, but for now I feel blessed.
as for your#3 and #4, I'd just send them this itself. it puts it in a better perspective for acceptance I think and shows how much you care.
My Dad hasn't brought it up since I told him. I try and say I'm going to a therapist and such and the subject changes to the Lakers. When I told him, he had almost no questions and said he didn't care at all. I am guessing that he and other family members are dealing with it inside and don't think they should get involved. I don't mind that, but I can understand the frustration. I don't think your relationship is becoming bad or anything. They need time to adjust. My family adjusted to my coming out about being bi and they will come around on this. It takes time. Maybe ask them why they aren't involved more, but don't be hostile about it.
You don't owe your ex anything. There's a reason why ex's are ex's and should stay that way. If she can't accept you then that's on her.
wynter, a lot of people remain good friends with their ex. I'm not saying this is the case here, but an ex can still be a close and valued ally.
Quote from: tomthom on March 02, 2013, 10:45:53 AM
wynter, a lot of people remain good friends with their ex. I'm not saying this is the case here, but an ex can still be a close and valued ally.
I couldn't agree more. It is, of course, a choice everyone has to make for themselves, and as dependent on that nature of yourself and the ex. Easier to separate completely, too, if there aren't children or shared friends to deal with. If that's what you want. In my case, without my ex's continued caring and concern, though, I would probably already be dead. Granted, I am not over the relationship, and I'm pretty sure she knows that. It's easy to say exes should just be exes, but not always easy to do... maybe it might be easier, but I didn't form my attachment casually, and I don't find it simple or true to myself to let go of something that was such a major part of my life experience and (in my case) probably the most intimate and deepest relationship in my life aside from my bonds with my mother (and
maybe my father) and those with my children.
Quote from: tomthom on March 02, 2013, 10:45:53 AM
wynter, a lot of people remain good friends with their ex. I'm not saying this is the case here, but an ex can still be a close and valued ally.
True but given the things this ex has already said makes me think this isn't the case with this particular ex.
This ex sounds like she'd be a big bubble of negativity oozing and crawling in the corners, spewing out meanness and bile.
Leopards can't change their spots and her comments have already been hateful.
Thanks everyone for replying :)
Well friend 3 may be hard to tell but I do think in the end he will be accepting, it's just a delicate situation I think, and I'm not sure how to approach it exactly. I did like the comment about potentially just showing them this post, but usually when I "come out" I try to give some background information, I suppose I could just add to this. As for my ex and it seems like there is a lot of mixed answers of whether I should tell her. If I had it my way ideally, then her and I could still be friends and it doesn't seem like she really wants to but at the same time, she still texts me sometimes, so it's mixed signals really. I do think it will be negative if I tell her, but if I don't tell her, then I will be closing that door completely.
Quote from: Elspeth on March 01, 2013, 11:52:59 PM
My guesses, and keep in mind they are just guesses, but my first impression is that Friend 3 is gay. That kind of joking is pretty typical for someone at that age testing the waters with friends, while being in a kind of denial.
Would the consequences be worse, do you think, if she found out from a mutual friend, instead of from you?
Listen in particular to the part of that sentence about "we were each other's firsts" -- that tells me that the anger is coming from an attachment that is still there, a wound that is still open, at least for her (you haven't said enough for me to know where you really stand with her). It sounds like you still have something to resolve, something only you can really judge the right timing for, based on context and whatever the nature of your remaining relationship might be.
Friend 3 isn't gay for sure though, I have extremely good "gaydar" if you believe in that and he's actually engaged. We don't hang out regularly now because he is currently deployed but when he comes back, we "all" hang out usually every Saturday.
I think it's really interesting that you both transitioned, I wonder if I had children if their chance of being born the wrong gender would increase or not.
Well there is definitely anger, some resentment, and other negative emotions there. We pretty much lived together and we kind of isolated ourselves from the rest of the world in our daily college lives, and so when that was ripped away, it was extremely difficult, especially at night alone.
Quote from: TiffanyT on March 02, 2013, 12:10:46 AM
My first was a lesbian. And she started sleeping with girls the very next night after we had sex! I suppose I convinced her men didn't have much to offer:/
Awwww :(, well this is the only ex I had sex with, and it wasn't great, but I guess a girl using a penis isn't usually a good match :P
Quote from: Bethany Dawn on March 01, 2013, 12:35:18 PM
Isn't it great when you get surprised by those you don't expect to be accepting? I hope telling the next two go as smoothly for you.
Hugs
Bethany
Thank you! I really hope so too, it's nerve raking and I'm definitely not sure if I want to tell my ex or not just because it's a greater chance it will be a negative reaction.
Quote from: Brooke777 on March 01, 2013, 12:41:45 PM
First, I'm glad things are going well with your friends. Like ZoeM said, I find it best to go into it expecting to lose them. If you don't it feels that much better.
Next, I wouldn't worry too much about your parents. Some parents just don't talk too often to their children. My dad calls once a week because his mother used to make him do it when she was alive, and he is a creature of habit. The only thing he wants to know is if I am doing OK. He wants no other details, and doesn't want to know anything else. The only other thing he asks, which is not every time, is how my son (his grandson) is doing. I know he loves me, and accepts me. He just doesn't have anything he wants to talk to me about.
I see I really appreciate that advice, if I feel like I'm going to lose them going into it, it can't hurt that much more then if I actually do lose them. I'll try to not worry about my parents, it just genuinely feels as if they don't care and that if they really did care, they would be more concerned about my transition or something, not that they need to be but I would expect most parents to be.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on March 01, 2013, 01:13:51 PM
I don't think you should tell your ex if she said those things to you before. Of course, I'm a bit on the fence about telling people in general if you aren't close with them right now. Would you tell them if you were having your appendix taken out? Prob not. I know it's not exactly the same thing but I just don't think people have a right to know anything.
I don't really get the whole "you have a moral obligation to tell people." Not saying you think that. But sometimes peole on this board make me feel like my plans are wrong and that stealth is some kind of disservice to future trans women. I refuse to suffer anymore. It's my life. Just my two cents. Hope it goes well, telling them that is! :-*
Well I actually had 3 surgeries for my lung and I didn't tell her until after the fact that it was all over, so to answer your question, no I wouldn't tell her that. My whole thing with this is that if I don't tell her before I transition, then I can never talk to her again and that door is just closed with no other opens at that point. I also agree with you, I do not plan on telling people I meet in my regular life once I go full time besides a romantic lover, but those I already know I will tell so I can keep them in my life. I see myself as a regular girl and not a trans girl.
Quote from: VegasLakers on March 02, 2013, 02:48:44 AM
My Dad hasn't brought it up since I told him. I try and say I'm going to a therapist and such and the subject changes to the Lakers. When I told him, he had almost no questions and said he didn't care at all. I am guessing that he and other family members are dealing with it inside and don't think they should get involved. I don't mind that, but I can understand the frustration. I don't think your relationship is becoming bad or anything. They need time to adjust. My family adjusted to my coming out about being bi and they will come around on this. It takes time. Maybe ask them why they aren't involved more, but don't be hostile about it.
Yeah I try to not cause any hostile situations but it does happen sometimes, it's just an extremely weird dynamic honestly, I'm actually adopted, but it's not the traditional adoption as a baby, I was 14 when I was adopted and it was just an odd experience in high school living there although I'm thankful I have them obviously.
Quote from: Wynternight on March 02, 2013, 07:19:24 PM
True but given the things this ex has already said makes me think this isn't the case with this particular ex.
This ex sounds like she'd be a big bubble of negativity oozing and crawling in the corners, spewing out meanness and bile.
Leopards can't change their spots and her comments have already been hateful.
Yeah her comments have definitely been hateful and show a certain amount of ignorance towards the subject, but it honestly makes me wonder if she's more concerned with her own image if I happen to actually be a female since I suspect she is at the very least bi, I've found lesbian porn on her computer on numerous occasions and never straight porn.
Quote from: Lorri Kat on March 01, 2013, 08:13:54 PM.
No one wants to be alone I understand but if I recall you mentioned that you had joined a group recently. It mite be healthier to make new friends there, ones that will have no issue with who you really are. In a sense it is like moving across the country by yourself to another state; you start with a clean slate and proceed to make a new network of friends <--- friends( people that will help you anyway,anytime, with no excuses).
Yeah, I definitely plan on making a lot more new friends and it will be a lot easier for me actually because I can actually be myself. Throughout growing up, I remember acting really awkward as a male and having to try really hard to overcompensate and ultimately I would come off as an arrogant jerk instead because I was worried people would think otherwise of me, it's a lot better now that I can be more comfortable. Thanks for the advice :)
Quote from: anya on March 01, 2013, 10:36:44 PM
If you are not really close to your friend 3 and your ex I think best thing is not to tell them yet. At least for time being. May be somewhere down the line you can tell them but not just yet. If they accept you it will be great. But if some nasty comments came from it will ended up you getting hurt, what I feel mostly likely to happened after reading what you have written on your post. So I think it is not a risk you should take this moment.
About your parents, I think best way is to keep in touch with them. Even though they accept you and love you it will take some time to get used to love you as their daughter. Remember they loved you as someone else through out your life and to change the way they show their love and affection can take time. Just keep in touch them.
I really want to tell friend 3 and not sure about my ex though. I do think I will get hurt by telling my ex but I'm still unsure like I was saying to other people. Well with my parents, it feels like they barely loved me as their son, so I don't know if they really care that much.
An interesting side note: My only 2 serious exs both showed signs of being potentially bi, my very first girlfriend is actually bi now and this ex actually had lesbian porn on her computer that I found on several occasions, I just thought that was interesting. I thought it was interesting that you said that about her Muu, since she may in fact be a lesbian but she is obviously repressing it.
Wow, that was a lot of information, sorry for such a long post again. Thank you guys for all your advice and feedback, I really appreciate it!!!! :)