I dunno, I just never saw the point in it or the possible release. sure it's passed my mind, but as nothing more than a passing notion. But I see a huge amount of people here that are "transition or die"... and well it's got me a bit curious as to why so many people are suicidal. or if I'm an extreme outlier for not feeling that way.
I think it's the desperation. Desperation and feeling hopeless. Also the fact that the extreme amounts of stress we've been put under can trigger the onset of underlying mental illness like depression, I have a strong family history of mental illness, so me developing bipolar with all the stress I was under is understandable. I've been hospitalized many times since I was young for suicidal ideation/attempts, and every time it was because I was depressed, scared and couldn't cope with being myself. I thought if I was so disgusted with myself, everyone else would be. I'm glad I was lucky enough that I never succeeded because I was given the opportunity to learn that people do accept me, and more than anything there is nothing wrong with me and there is hope for the future.
Quote from: tomthom on March 10, 2013, 10:47:26 PM
I dunno, I just never saw the point in it or the possible release. sure it's passed my mind, but as nothing more than a passing notion. But I see a huge amount of people here that are "transition or die"... and well it's got me a bit curious as to why so many people are suicidal. or if I'm an extreme outlier for not feeling that way.
Everybody has there on different breaking points. I know I reached mine when I trusted some people I shouldn't have back in high school and got outed to the whole school that for me was a breaking point. But I managed to survive and know how to cope with life's problems better now. I'm not suicidal now but can I say I will never be pushed to that point again no. Everybody handles the stresses of being trans differently. But to answer your question I don't think your weird for not feeling suicidal. :)
I guess I'm just lucky then. I've never reached a breaking point like that.
Well, I've never been suicidal over being trans. I did think about it when my partner died, however.
Over transgender issues, I have not to that point. Plenty of pain, yes. There were other times in my life where I have felt anguish enough to want to. Most due to loss of loved ones and friends. It does make me think though, I can't say I have seen a thread that says "I am so happy I am trans". There is pain for a lot and many deal with this pain by seeking others for guidance and a hand to take the next step. I do see a lot of happiness on these forums which is always a delight to see.
I feel I have to add one more thing, having lost someone very close to suicide. If any of you are feeling this much pain, please get someone's help. Each and every one of you people are very precious.
I've thought about leaving civilization and living in the woods if I couldn't transition... Not quite the same thing, but related, I suppose.
Quote from: ZoeM on March 11, 2013, 09:37:54 AM
I've thought about leaving civilization and living in the woods if I couldn't transition... Not quite the same thing, but related, I suppose.
I've never thought about living in the woods. I'm to high maintenance to ever do that. But I have thought about moving to the other side of the country and not telling my family. :laugh:
I've attempted suicide more than once, but the focus of it was never about being transgendered. This is mostly because I never admitted to myself that I was up until recently. My mindset, at the time, was that life had gotten so bad, and there was no hope of it ever getting any better, that it's better to not exist at all. Later when I was married, I was also thinking about how much I was holding my wife and son back, how much better they would be without me because I was such a poor excuse of a human being, and that they could go on to better things once I'm not longer there to weigh them down. These thoughts are not rational, much like how our transgendered thoughts are. Asking somebody who's suicidally depressed why they feel that way and why can't see that life is so much better is like asking us why can't we just live with the bodies we're born with and be happy? You just can't.
If you've never felt suicidal, then you've been blessed. It's not a point anybody enjoys getting to and if I could turn back time and never do those things I would.
I am not suicidal. On a few occasions I've thought about it or thought about staging it. Actually I'm afraid of death.
At one point I briefly considered being a suicide councilor.
Paradoxically, being trans has given me something to live for. It was strange, when I had finally come to grips to the notion that I was trans, I felt like I had hit rock bottom, like I had before when I was suicidal, but suicide didn't cross my mind. I finally understood a lot about myself, and this was something I could actually do something about, whereas before it was just this nebulous feeling of unworthiness and hopelessness and out-of-placeness. Discovering that I was trans was a huge positive event in my life. I can finally accept and love myself for who I am.
Sure transitioning is going to suck but it's gotta be better than moping about about nothing.
I never got suicidal either... but learning that it was so common, and that I could easily see how people drive themselves that far was what finally made me decide to confront my gender issues.
Quote from: tomthom on March 10, 2013, 10:47:26 PM
I dunno, I just never saw the point in it or the possible release. sure it's passed my mind, but as nothing more than a passing notion. But I see a huge amount of people here that are "transition or die"... and well it's got me a bit curious as to why so many people are suicidal. or if I'm an extreme outlier for not feeling that way.
For me, it depends on how you want to interpret things. I also have never been a "transition or suicide" person. There are always options, even in that case like transition. You still get to try something else, unlike suicide.
About 6 months back I started slipping into major existential despair brought on by factors outside of my non-transition, but maybe someday. Much of how I saw and defined my life was focused down to just being a machine that does what she is expected to. Destined to a life of no joy, no fun. Like Sissyphys, I just push that rock up a hill all day never getting it to the top. Never finishing my endless "To-Do" list
Then suddenly one night, right out of the blue, too many Akira Kurosawa Samari movies met existential blues. While chopping up my salad bits my mind wondered to "Just what is the difference between jamming a needle in my thigh and disemboweling myself?". Like serious thoughts! Not mental musings
Was it due to me being in such a well of dispair over my life, seeing no hope, no future, much less a past to be proud of? No hope of ever keeping that dream alive of transitioning once things sort of stabilized in my life?
Not sure other than it really scared the crap out of me :o
Quote from: ZoeM on March 11, 2013, 09:37:54 AM
I've thought about leaving civilization and living in the woods if I couldn't transition... Not quite the same thing, but related, I suppose.
Maybe head up to Canada, eh McCandless? I've thought about that many a time too. perhaps I will sometime. except I'd do it with friends.
I've never been suicidal. I've always been a really happy person! At one point I did have a bout with GID related anxiety, panic attacks, and agoraphobia, but it was short lived. I attacked it with learning and practice and got on with my life quickly after ..still living as a male.
This topic was actually the one of the toughest parts in coming out to myself because I thought maybe I should have been suicidal or something.. if I was indeed trans. But I realized that I have just been lucky to have enough positive distractions in my life that kept me from focusing on the bad stuff. Channeling the energy, or sublimating as my therapist called it.
Also definitely made it harder to decide to transition, too, because I was afraid of the potential loss of my happy lifestyle. It took me 3 years to really come to terms with everything until I really felt comfortable that I wouldn't lose any happiness at all. And, thankfully I was right. I am happier than ever.
Quote from: Heather on March 11, 2013, 10:56:35 AM
I've never thought about living in the woods. I'm to high maintenance to ever do that. But I have thought about moving to the other side of the country and not telling my family. :laugh:
You're welcome to come to my place, here in WA.
Anytime.
fwiw, I was suicidal long before I realized I was trans. Once I figured that out, it eased some of the ideations and urges. Once on HRT...ideations and urges are about 10% what they were. Still there, but that's a function of being broken for 4 decades. I'm on a healing path though, and I *will* be better.
Quick! Call the men in white coats! Something is wrong here!
You do seem to be exceptional in this respect, but it's refreshing to hear.
Just as a note of caution:
Just because someone isn't suicidal or desperate about trans issues at 15, 20, 30, etc. doesn't mean the same will hold at 40, 50, 60 etc. I'm sure some of the members on this board for whom it was 'transition or die' at 40 or 50 didn't necessarily feel that way at 20 or 30.
I've never been suicidal, I'm too optimistic for it. Plenty of pain, despair, depression, shame, guilt and grief but I alway thought the negativity would be temporary and so far I've been right.
Quote from: Beth Andrea on March 11, 2013, 10:34:56 PM
You're welcome to come to my place, here in WA.
Anytime.
Thanks Beth I've actually always wanted to visit WA. I may take you up on that offer someday. ;D
You are not weired, you are lucky.
the number that floats around health care givers is "41% of trans people have attempted suicide" WOW that is high!
Quote from: peky on March 13, 2013, 05:42:54 PM
the number that floats around health care givers is "41% of trans people have attempted suicide" WOW that is high!
Anecdote. Last year I was having lunch with four of my transgender friends. Ages between 24 and 55. All 5 of us had experienced suicide attempts before we transitioned. Average # of attempts per person: 3.
Quote from: ashley_thomas on March 11, 2013, 11:52:19 PM
I've never been suicidal, I'm too optimistic for it. Plenty of pain, despair, depression, shame, guilt and grief but I alway thought the negativity would be temporary and so far I've been right.
We should hang out
I consider you lucky. A few years ago, I decided it was get on hormones or that was the end. Anything beyond that I could face. Things like electrolysis are pretty easy when comparing the alternative, which is always in the back of my head. Now FFS is my new motivation. Without that, I don't see my happiness over the horizon. I'm glad you don't think like some of us do. :)
I've gone to some pretty dark places mentally, but I've never seriously contemplated suicide. Hopefully, since I'm finally on the road to transition (on HRT, getting laser done, etc), I'll never have to face that sort of bottomless despair. My heart goes out to every who HAS been to that awful place :(
I've contemplated suicide. For me it was the just the feeling of hopelessness and regret coming from gender dysphoria. The hopelessness was from thoughts of how I will never pass, how I will never be accepted, how I won't be able to live a "normal" life, how I may never be able to have children, how I was stupid, how I was too manly, how I was too hairy, and the list goes on. The regret of course was from the internalized hate of me not transitioning earlier; I was an idiot and shouldn't have been in denial or I should have went through with it and now it's too late. And rinse and repeat that regret through my adolescence to my early 20's with each time it getting worse and eating at me deeper and deeper than before.
All of this just ate at me for a long time and after a while I never really felt like "I was there". Days kind of just blurred together and I felt like I was just a husk. It hurt extremely to see myself in the mirror and to have people sir me or treat me a certain way. It hurt extremely to see other women and feel like I was a fake. My appetite was nonexistent and just trying to eat gave me nausea. I just wanted it all to end. I just wanted to die. At least there I could get out of the prison I felt I was in.
I'm suicidal a few times a week. Have been for years. Fear of pain, fear of the unknown, and fear of leaving the few people I do care about is what keeps me planted here.
Feel privileged if you've never gone through it. It sucks.
Quote from: ashley_thomas on March 11, 2013, 11:52:19 PM
I've never been suicidal, I'm too optimistic for it. Plenty of pain, despair, depression, shame, guilt and grief but I alway thought the negativity would be temporary and so far I've been right.
Ashley's reply pretty much sums it up for me too. Through childhood, Pre transition, etc, I'd ridden a roller coaster of ups and downs and inside outs and upside downs, but always believed things would only get better and work out in the end. Having been through it all and come out on the other side I can see quite clearly that those feelings were right.
Maybe I was lucky? Who knows. You make your own luck.
I really do feel for everyone that has been so low they thought there was only one way out. If I ever sunk that low I was going to leave everything behind and go and start fresh in a new place. Luckily it never came to that.
You aren't weird. I have never been to the point suicide either.
I've always found a way somehow to solve a problem that was depressing me. But I've never had a clinical depression. A depression about things can be much more easily solved than one that is perpetuated by a chemical imbalance in the brain. An optimistic approach to life has always kept me in good stead. I've always believed that no matter how hard the problem, there's always a solution.
Quote from: peky on March 13, 2013, 05:42:54 PM
the number that floats around health care givers is "41% of trans people have attempted suicide" WOW that is high!
I saw this number recently also.
It's kinda tough finding numbers for a "per capita comparison"... As a starting basis, tomthom states that she has never even
felt suicidal... I don't know what the statistics for this would be.
Then you get into numbers for attempted suicides (which run from 10-40 attempts for every successful suicide), but you have to attribute a certain number of those attempts as being duplicates and therefore not a sample representative of the population at large...
And then you consider other high-risk groups such as folks with substance-abuse issues; and comparing those numbers to the LGBT community would take a little number-crunching.
I think that one reason why there are reported numbers for some groups (again - such as the LGBT community... and most certainly those transitioning or transitioned) is that they have a therapy requirement which brings them into the survey.
I dunno... but none of this is to say that the rate of suicide, or attempted suicide, is artificially high for this group - it probably isn't, sadly.
I thought all people considered suicide from time to time. Really contemplating and planning it was only 2 times.
I looked at it objectively and every suicide thought was the result of me not being able to accept how I think others will think of me. I have a lack of confidence and I look for approval from others. Knowing this, I can take the feelings of need to die and ask why. I always comes to me not wanting to accept XYZ. I accept xyz and I am still here. I guess the wanting to die is a coping mechnism for me. I really just want the self inflicted pain to stop and I am working on it!
You are lucky to not have self destructive thoughts.
oh I still have self destructive thoughts, they just tend to manifest in procrastination and hubris.
Quote from: Jennygirl on March 14, 2013, 01:45:27 AM
We should hang out
Somehow I missed your first response to the OP, but I was reading this thread from the top and stopped on yours and thought it was fantastic! We can be happy!
I've been suicidal before, or actually perhaps just self destructing, as I don't really know was it my true intention to die, but it nearly happened by accident several times. I just didn't care if I would die.
Now I feel I'm again approaching that dark place, as a I fear that I will be denied of transitioning, as the doctors want to dig up every old medical paper about me, including also those fifteen year old psych.papers, which states that I probably have a early stage schizophrenia, which hasn't started yet.
I don't know, I should have never hoped to transition, as now if I'm not allowed, it feels like the end of everything.
I am surprised...suicide always seems like an illogical move to me. Because death ends all possible outcomes subjectively as we know it, suicide ensures that you do not get what you want in life. By that, I advocate for avoidance of one's own death at all costs.
If someone has a gun to my head I will ask for a ten second extension before the trigger gets pulled!
Quote from: milktea on April 12, 2013, 04:06:44 AM
I am surprised...suicide always seems like an illogical move to me. Because death ends all possible outcomes subjectively as we know it, suicide ensures that you do not get what you want in life. By that, I advocate for avoidance of one's own death at all costs.
If someone has a gun to my head I will ask for a ten second extension before the trigger gets pulled!
Exactly. Being dead aint gonna make you happy now is it.
Worse I got is apathy. Living as I am right now might not make me happy either but pleasure through hedonism does not necessitate happiness. :P
Quote from: Seras on April 12, 2013, 04:22:35 AM
Exactly. Being dead aint gonna make you happy now is it.
No, but it will keep you from being
unhappy. The point isn't to be happy. The point is to make the hurting
stop.
No, I've not had suicidal thoughts, ever. I've definitely had some very ->-bleeped-<- points in my life but I guess I'm an optimist at heart. It seems illogical to me, but if you're feeling so horrible that this sort of thing would come to mind, I'd imagine it's not like logic is coming into play...
Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on March 11, 2013, 11:50:48 PM
Just as a note of caution:
Just because someone isn't suicidal or desperate about trans issues at 15, 20, 30, etc. doesn't mean the same will hold at 40, 50, 60 etc. I'm sure some of the members on this board for whom it was 'transition or die' at 40 or 50 didn't necessarily feel that way at 20 or 30.
This was the epiphany that started it all for me. I recall catching myself in the mirror and realizing that my emotional descent wouldn't cease. Every year was a little more difficult than the last to wear the facade and that I'd never reach a point where things became "ok". Within a year of that moment, I had started HRT and I've never looked back.
On average, I'd say that feelings of suicide make up ~30% of my conscious thoughts.
I've been extremely lucky and privledged to not have suicidal thoughts. I have stable employment, workplace and civil protections, live in a trans friendly city with good support services, few barriers to health care and friends/family and a spouse supportive of the change. If any of those factors were not present or would be revoked, serious mental health issues and suicidality could easily emerge.
I consider myself lucky and fortunate rather than have any sort of strength or will.