I have been struggling with gender dysphoria issues for years (I'm 22, its been going on since I was in middle school to different degrees), having gone to a therapist, elected to not take hormones because I thought I could adapt to my gender without them, and now am struggling again. However, I don't feel like I am, at this moment, a woman. I feel like I would be more congruent with my gender if I was female, and I continuously think about how I want a female body, and I have a near impossible time relating to most strongly gendered males. I feel like I have a mind which is innately strong, directed, and feminine, but I couldn't possibly tell someone that I am a girl right now.
My real question is still whether you need to actively feel like you are the opposite gender to have gender identity disorder. I feel more like a girl (tomboy I guess you could say) but I'm a very literal person and I'd have a hard time saying that I am a girl. So input on that would be helpful, especially from anyone who is trans.
No. It's not.
My own case is similar to yours; I have always felt that I wanted to be/would be better as a woman, but it was not until I started actually transitioning that I could think of myself AS one. I expect immediate corroboration from the other fine ladies of the board.
In sum: You have nothing to worry about.
Quote from: ZoeM on March 19, 2013, 02:26:21 PM
No. It's not.
My own case is similar to yours; I have always felt that I wanted to be/would be better as a woman, but it was not until I started actually transitioning that I could think of myself AS one. I expect immediate corroboration from the other fine ladies of the board.
In sum: You have nothing to worry about.
Immediate corroboration issued from this fine lady here 8)
Quote from: Senrab on March 19, 2013, 02:06:48 PM
My real question is still whether you need to actively feel like you are the opposite gender to have gender identity disorder.
Absolutely not.
I do not feel like a woman. I'm 100% transgender, wanted to live as a female all my life, feel far more comfortable when I'm presenting female, etc.
The universality of "feeling like" your internal gender is a total myth perpetuated by poorly researched media. Some trans people feel that way, but some do not.
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No. Some trans people identify as a type of male, but they still get dysphoria and take estrogen. Whatever.
Agreeing with all the above. Also, there are plenty of gender non-binary people who are trans and transitioning who are not doing so with a "target gender/sex" in mind, but simply the goal of no longer experiencing dysphoria.
I find myself most recently most at ease describing myself as polygender - but have a very clear and unambiguous sense of being that person in a female body, hence my transition, since I'm MAAB. And for conventional purposes I'm happiest being considered a woman, but it's not a very close fit.
Quote from: Senrab on March 19, 2013, 03:18:33 PM
Ok, thanks everyone for the support, I really mean it. This is where it gets confusing though. So after going to the therapist initially I basically came to understand the non binary, stereotypes don't define gender idea better, and was determined that I could defeat confusion by differentiating these things in my mind as much as I could, and by not being ashamed of my feminine feelings. And I did do that, and it not only makes me feel more myself but also makes me much less stressed.
That being said, that was about 2 years ago now, and the thoughts about changing gender haven't gone away. They are less compulsive (a little bit), and much less stressful, but not gone. And everyone who I came out to originally thinks I resolved my issues. It just makes me very confused.
It seems to me that gender, or genders (for those of us who identify as non-binary), or the lack of gender, is innate. The concept of changing my gender is foreign to me. The concept of my gender expression constantly changing, is a way of life.
Aye, it's one of the misleading things about the term "gender transition", since it's the gender that's the still point, and everything else that transitions to meet it.
I am not binary.
I do not want my male parts, never did.
I will find out how I feel with HRT, soon, so I can't comment on that now.
I do not know what a woman feels like nor have I been raised female; however, I see and feel myself in the female sex and emotions, always have.
I am transgendered and I will try HRT to see if it right for me and help me to be who I am. The therapist and I reviewed what HRT will most likely do and the probability I will stop ( not likely). Also, we reviewed the physical changes and what that will mean socially, at work and home. It is a difficult long process and there are stepping off places if it is not right for me.
Hope this helps.
Agree with others: it is definitely NOT universal.
I'm FAAB. All I can say with certainty is that I'm NOT female. I'm male-ish, but feel uncomfortable with the term 'man'. My transition involves masculinizing enough to get rid of my body and gender dysphoria, or rather, unfeminizing. Or becoming at least recognizably male. But not necessarily unmistakably male. Etc etc.
Details still being worked out, obviously ;D
There are a lot of ways to slice this whole gender identity thing. It's different for everyone, I suspect.
I've always felt and acted more female than male. And as previous posts have said, there is no right or wrong. The idea of gender is fluid and ever changing. There are no requirements. Be you and be happy. Screw everything else.
Quote from: Padma on March 19, 2013, 04:44:24 PM
Aye, it's one of the misleading things about the term "gender transition", since it's the gender that's the still point, and everything else that transitions to meet it.
Like Padma, I've realized with a lot of soul searching that, deep down, I'm comfortable with who I am. It's just that I have an I'll fitting body. To be more comfortable, I know that my body must match the female model.
Nope, you don't need to.
The only conviction I've always had is that I'm not a guy, that it doesn't feel right to be a guy. Not wanting to be a woman has driven my actions much more than wanting to be a woman. Once I started going through the process, I really started solidifying the idea that I'm female, but I don't think it's possible for me to be 100 % sure until I have transitioned.
But the farther I've gotten through this, the more I've been leaning towards me being a woman. And the more I go that way, the better I feel.
You don't need to ascertain the absolute knowledge of being a woman to make transition a viable choice. As long as it feels right to go in that direction, then go. Probably, as you go, you will feel more confident about your choice. Even if you never reach certainty, you just need to ask yourself if it feels better.
Besides, gender dysphoria is not to want to be the opposite gender; it's to feel bad about one's current gender. Those who completely identify as androgynes had gender dysphoria as well: they felt bad being a man/woman. And it's dysphoria, even though they didn't want to become a woman/man.
This is a tough one.
I identify as a trans woman not as a woman. I never have and never will be a woman and for me to think that is silly. I'm a hybrid I guess. In my dreams sometimes I am male and sometimes I am female and sometimes....both. I guess I could say im a male bodied woman trained in the ways of both worlds. Unique and special in my own ways.
Maybe it's just all part of being in this limbo stage of transition where I stand between worlds.
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on March 19, 2013, 07:34:09 PM
I never have and never will be a woman and for me to think that is silly.
I think something like this in my darkest moments. Other times I have hope that even I will join my MtF trans sisters in woman hood. I kind of have a script I play in my head at times like that:
I know I'm not a woman.
I hope to become one.
But if I can't, I'll gladly fake it for the privilege of living as one.GID really messes with the mind.
I don't always "feel" like a woman, but there are enough times in my life that I desire it. I certainly don't "feel" like a man. I'm just trying to find a comfortable place.
The nature of my trans* journey is marked by the need to become more physically male, not by the inner feeling of being male.
For me, I feel a definite female presence inside but not so much male despite what I was born as. But due to my current situation, I must put on a male front for the rest of the world. Only in private, can I embrace my feminine side. I have plans to speak with a therapist to get incite on my inner femininity and recent self-acceptance.
Same here, I always knew I wanted to be a girl, but I was such a tomboy when growing up. Infact I think I still do lol. I love all the adrenaline rush and neck breaking stuff, But I wanted to do all those stuff as a girl. Even after I started my transition I found it bit strange when I am telling I am a girl or even some one calling by my new name. Don't get me wrong, it felt great when some one called me ma'am or in my new name and I was really forcing every one to use it too. But first it felt strange because I was not used to it. for 27 years I was used to my old name. So it took some time to get used to calling my self a girl. But now I am nothing but a woman, A happy one that is ;). Can't even remember being my old self and I don't respond to my old name. I just forgot once I used to be that person lol.
Also I never see my self is a transwoman. I am just a woman.
Some called them selves as girls since they were little, some found it strange at the start. Each and everyone has a different story.
You know, I was in the same boat. I really did believe for a long time that the problem wasn't that I needed to be a woman, it was just that I needed to allow myself to embrace my feminine desires and allow myself to do them without letting myself be stifled by traditional roles of masculinity. I felt like that for quite a while. I just saw myself as a feminine guy. And about this time last year, I decided that I was going to fully embrace it. I decided, to hell with the consequences, I'm going to be myself. I'm going to shave my body hair, I'm going to wear shorter shorts, and panties, and I'm going to let myself be more open and silly and spontaneous and be emotional rather than trying to act tough and stoic. But even despite doing that, despite seemingly embracing my identity as a feminine guy, the feelings of gender dysphoria did not go away. And the more I embraced my femininity, the more I realized that I really wasn't happy just as a guy doing those things, that I really did want to be a girl. And that deep down, I didn't feel like a guy at all, and never had, and I really did see myself as female. This was after years of truly believing that I could just be happy as a guy, and that all I needed to do was get over the societal preconceptions about masculinity. But in my case, I couldn't. I realized that no matter what I did, I was never going to feel truly like myself, and be truly comfortable and happy with who I was, until I was a girl.
So don't get discouraged. This whole thing is about a journey of self-discovery. Be honest with yourself. Try things out. Work out all of the possible solutions that would make you feel better. And if you still feel gender dysphoria, even after doing all of the things that you thought you wanted to do, and the things that you thought would fix it, odds are that there's something deeper there. I'm not saying there is, I'm not saying there isn't. Everyone's case is different. But the important part is giving yourself the freedom to explore. Find who you truly are, and then have the courage to follow it.
Same here. Through the entire transition and getting hormones and an orchie and things...I've never claimed I was female ~_~ I don't even particularly want to be a woman.
What am I?
Well... I am what I am... a male, who happens to have a great deal in common with women. I prefer feminine aesthetic and have no problem embracing the feminine side of myself (yup, even as a male ~gasp~).
But, along the way, a LOT of people have tried to convince me I'm "really a girl".
Basically, I have learnt the entire gender issue is for OTHER people. That society is more interested in making us "really girls" than anything. The idea of a male that is or embraces femininity is threatening to the binary system we have...how can men have dominance over women when there are people like me? Obviously, I "must be" a woman...so society can continue to degrade femininity and men can continue their psychopathic aversion to it (men aren't allowed to do anything feminine, it is a major societal rule that is constantly reinforced).
So, I prefer to drop all the games...and just be what I am ~_~ I don't need to be "really a woman" to validate what I want or what I'm doing. I think a man can embrace femininity ~_~ Pretty simple actually.
Well Ive always felt female. I did everything I could to convince myself I wasn't it. Until I decided to transition. I suffered from severe depression as soon as puberty started. I tried adapting and being "male" but it never worked. I always ended up feeling even more dysphoric and frustrated. I'm not sure if I'm intersexed or what. But for me I say that I' am female first and trans second. Not that I'am ashamed of being trans but to me it's no more than a medical issue. Transition is what I need to do to fix the damage that testosterone caused, at least in the physical sense. Since my mental transition never really happened. Other than finally accepting myself and putting into motion what I need to do to be me.
I think for me, it was that, No matter how hard I tried to be a guy, it felt so wrong. And I really was not good at being one. I was very often the smallest boy in school, seen as effeminate and gay. But I know that that wasn't right. When I was younger and before I knew it was even possible to transition, I crossdressed. I know I probably looked silly but I felt like this was right for me. I bought a bra when I was a young teenager and padded it out, wearing it when I was alone or in bed. I found that by doing that I slept so much better than I would have otherwise. I don't know if it was a comfort issue or because my boy was trying to tell me something was missing from my chest. All I knew was that seeing myself as a girl brought me some inner peace that I had not known. It was a fear of rejection from my family that scared me from coming out to them. By the time my Mum forced me to come out to her, it didn't matter anymore. my parents had divorced. My family was broken. But I was an adult.
Now that I'm on HRT, I truly have that inner peace. I'm finally able to just be myself and not feel like I'm pretending to be something I'm not. And that's all I really want to be. I see me in the mirror and I'm happy. I don't have this feeling of "Oh god! you again? go away already!" like I used to.
Before hrt I didn't think about my identification as being a girl but I thought frequently about my desire to be one. I did however recognize this internal female that would want to react one way but got buried in masculinity. At one time I got to the point where the feminine mind was so frequent that I thought I had multiple personalities and was worried about my indentity completely splitting. but still wasn't identifying as being a woman. im transgender im proud of that I know it's written deeply into my soul now. After hrt though I realized yah im a female have always been im just me though and that's what matters
I'm in the process of developing a definite sense of identity which is female.
Way back in childhood and earlier in my life I had the feeling of being a person inside another person and was never really sure who I was. I played along and just went with the flow. When I started crossdressing it was never anything more than wearing women's clothing and just being. I spent a lot of time in my teens crossdressing in private and created a fictitious life just so that nobody would suspect when I disappeared to crossdress and be much more comfortable. But then there was the anxiety that this crossdressing was getting out of hand and I was losing control.
I kind of just accepted that I was complicated, that there was a problem, and while everything on the surface seemed okay and normal I just couldn't connect with people. Even today I have a sense of isolation that I don't think will ever go.
The problem got much worse in my late teens when my bottom filled out and I gained rather feminine hips and legs. It would be noticed by women and my relationships never really got anywhere. I put on weight which seemed to alleviate the problem but still internally there was a conflict.
Much of my life hasn't been about being one sex and wanting to be or trying to be the other. It's been about finding myself. My sense of identity changed between bi-gendered, a male crossdresser, intersexed, a TwoSpirit, a MtF transsexual, and this has slowly evolved as I questioned, explored, experimented, discovered, and learned.
I identify as female, as a transwoman, or a transgendered woman. I feel myself when identifying as a female, and my transition has been much more a voyage of self-discovery than it has trying to place myself into the congruent sex/gender binary.
Quote from: Sammy on March 20, 2013, 06:11:06 AM
By the way, I wonder where does this assumption that transwomen in general are more feminine than cis-gender counterparts come from? I dunno if this is relevant for the present discussion, but it it sort of relates to our perceptions of female gender and what is usually associated with it. Or is this because we have been denied this for such a long time that we are so eager to express ourselves in any way it is possible, that we outmatch cis-gender girls?
Well, some girls don't really mind their gender, or so they say. Some even say they'd actually kinda like it better to be a guy, while not being trans.
How many women, if born male, would have wanted to transition? It might not even be most of them. I think to be trans, you have to be 1. born in the wrong gender and 2. unable to embrace the right one.
In a sense, we're "so feminine we couldn't cope with being men". Or so people might think.
Additionally, some trans women will "try too hard" to be women, either because they're afraid of appearing male, either because feminity has always seemed so desirable to them that they ended up becoming all of it, even if it's "not them".
For myself I have known my true self for 40+ years!
The problem I had was growing up in a small mining town through the 70's and 80's. Could not come out due to the attitudes of the people that lived here. Make's it real hard when the people around are nothing but bullies and want to bash ya for no good reason. I never fitted in real well with the people I grew up with.
I had to put on the real big tough male crap, which I hated. It was that or get bashed, so I bashed them twits and sorted them all out, NO more picking on me! >:-) Fixed them all, no problems since. Lucky for me I am 6 foot tall and weighed 120kg (264.5 pounds), and at that point in my life I was doing weight's and could benchpress 110kg(242.5 pounds), plus I made my hands real strong so I could chock the heck out of people if needed. I hate fighting, and see no point to it, these days I do martial arts to stop people attacking me, self defence is a must these days.
So I have always known that I had a little girl inside screaming to get out! And I mean screaming! So I'm letting her out once and for all. I am on my path to let the real me out as I no longer can hide the true me.
Edited for profanity
Quote from: Sammy on March 20, 2013, 06:11:06 AM
By the way, I wonder where does this assumption that transwomen in general are more feminine than cis-gender counterparts come from? I dunno if this is relevant for the present discussion, but it sort of relates to our perceptions of female gender and what is usually associated with it. Or is this because we have been denied this for such a long time that we are so eager to express ourselves in any way it is possible, that we outmatch cis-gender girls?
Well, to some degree "femininity," and "masculinity," are social constructs. At the same time, having parented both boys and girls, even as babies, there are observable differences in how the sexes differ in behavior.
For many trans* persons, their need to present as their innate gender sometimes will lead to an "exaggeration" of those attributes. At least, that is my observation.
I literally feel like a girl trapped in a boys body. Even though I was raised as a boy I felt like a girl or a "fake boy" as I used to put it. I identify as female not trans.
I don't know why people keep saying trans women are overly feminine, honestly most trans women i've seen online are kinda tomboyish and not very feminine at all. I think for someone who's a tomboy seeing someone being feminine probably comes across as being overly feminine but really it's not it's just normal for most girls.
I think that just as with women in general, there's a whole spectrum of "femininity" among trans women. As for trans women who are very feminine, some just want to be because that's how they're most being themselves, and some feel it necessary to be, in order to be safe and/or accepted. I have had problems with local trans women being unwilling to "see me as a woman" because I'm not at the feminine end of the spectrum, and there does seem to be a lot of peer pressure in their group to be very feminine, which is why I'm forming a separate local support group for non-binary trans people (of all genders).
Quote from: Sammy on March 20, 2013, 06:11:06 AM
By the way, I wonder where does this assumption that transwomen in general are more feminine than cis-gender counterparts come from? I dunno if this is relevant for the present discussion, but it it sort of relates to our perceptions of female gender and what is usually associated with it. Or is this because we have been denied this for such a long time that we are so eager to express ourselves in any way it is possible, that we outmatch cis-gender girls?
I think it's a need to compensate for not having the opportunity previously of presenting oneself as female.
I see it as a misconception pretty much like the assumption that slimmer women are more feminine than larger women or BBWs.
I just can't wrap my head around the concept that 'femininity' is some sort of standard to be achieved to be honest. It's almost as if you are seen to be feminine by degree based on how closely you resemble a popular feminine stereotype.
I once started a thread on an alternative lifestyles message board titled 'What defines you as a man or a woman?' when gender issues were being discussed and the responses from mainly both men and women were almost as varied as there were responses.
No two women are exactly the same, no two trans women are exactly the same, and I feel that femininity (and masculinity) has got much more to do with your individuality as a human being and how you relate to your gender identity than it has to do with whatever image you are presenting to the outside world.
I've never been anybody else, so I have no reference for what it means to feel like a girl or to feel like a boy. My mental image of myself is female, and that's enough justification for me :)
Quote from: A on March 19, 2013, 06:39:37 PM
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You don't need to ascertain the absolute knowledge of being a woman to make transition a viable choice. As long as it feels right to go in that direction, then go. Probably, as you go, you will feel more confident about your choice. Even if you never reach certainty, you just need to ask yourself if it feels better.
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^LOVE THIS!^
I think its more identify with along with a sense of envy of cis-females. I just feel how i feel and a lot of people would say that is more feminine then masculine, but it's also part social construct, part how you were raised and part brain-wiring. Girl babies are much different then boy babies, for the most part, not always. I don't know all I really know is that though I dressed up once at six the idea of wanting to be a woman or girl, started around 10. It's never left. I hardly think one has to feel like a woman to transition, i.e like make up, fashion etc, etc. I mean I do personally but that's who I am. Plenty of girls don't. Though I do sense a bit of overcompensation sometimes, like if your 40 and have a Hello Kitty wallet, IMO.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on March 21, 2013, 06:23:30 PM
I hardly think one has to feel like a woman to transition, i.e like make up, fashion etc, etc. I mean I do personally but that's who I am. Plenty of girls don't. Though I do sense a bit of overcompensation sometimes, like if your 40 and have a Hello Kitty wallet, IMO.
Exactly! I know absolutely nothing about makeup (although I am getting a basic tutorial from a friend on Sunday)
If you want to get better with makeup: practice, practice, practice. Plus it's fun! But if it is something you don't like, no biggie. Doesn't make you less then or whatever. Though I do believe that many girls here could benefit from make up to one degree or another if their ultimate goal is too pass all the time and blend in. There's lots of girls who don't wear make up but a lot of them are super pretty already. I've had a lot of female friends and only my best friend from college never wore it. But she's super sup model pretty. I miss her.
Well, I'm not really sure if I'm female or not, in an absolute sense. I can't really know how anyone else experiences being male or female, or even how they experience anything in general - it's just one of the incredible mysteries of life. We are all entitled to being our own conscious selves, our own beings, and a part of that means that, to an extent, we have to be subjective from time to time. We have to define things for ourselves from time to time without being afraid that our definition will be different from someone or everyone else's.
I transitioned because, while I didn't know if I was female, I felt like I could be. At the very least, I certainly wanted to be a girl, and then a woman. I followed that desire because I believed happiness was the reward for it all, and I was partially right to think that, looking back. I can say that the answer to whether I'm really female or not is not much more clear than it was before, but on the bright side, I don't hate my physical existence any more - at least, not entirely. On many a day, I'm even happy and proud to be what and who I am these days.
I do wish I were more attractive, though. That's something I can change, in time, and I will - I want to be more feminine, but I think that dressing and styling myself much more femininely would look somewhat out of place on this model of body I'm presently inhabiting. This desire would not likely exist if I were male.
Very few things are completely universal among transgender people. However I did feel like I was the opposite sex growing up, but was forced to repress the feelings and later went into denial about it. Today I feel like a male that can be in touch with his emotions. I was just born with genetic defects that make me have traditionally non-male body parts, is how I feel.