I've only been out to my family for something like five or six months now, which doesn't seem long at all, but they've all been generally accepting of it. My mom still has moments where she goes on about how heart-broken she is that she's losing her daughter and best friend, but she's been good otherwise. I think she's getting over that.
That's not the point of this particular post, though. :)
It's been a couple of weeks now, but I just thought about it again last night. I was visiting my dad over Spring Break, and we had a couple of conversations regarding the issue, and he jokingly said something like, "You know, if you want to be a guy, you'll have to go fishing and watch football." And that was funny, I laughed. I'm not much of a fisherman, but I like football well enough.
So - it's not offensive, to me, but it is stereotypical. I get the feeling there might be other male stereotypes that my friends/family might seriously expect me to fall into (because in this case, my dad wasn't being serious; my younger brother hates both football and fishing). For example, the way I dress and wear my hair, the way I talk, and my sexuality. Not to say that being heterosexual is a stereotypical male behavior, you know, just that that's what they might expect I'm transitioning for - to get chicks. Haha.
I know that my boyfriend's mom is a little confused because he wants to be, in her words, a "feminine guy and dress in feminine clothes". There's definitely a mentality for some people that's like, If you're not going to conform to the stereotypical manly, masculine male, why transition? - Or it seems that way sometimes.
What do you think? Do your family/friends expect you to behave or dress a certain way because you identify as male, and if they do, is it frustrating for you?
I come from a hispanic family so I know especially well these masculine/feminine roles. I am really bothered by some of the things my grandmother says. Some of it is just really ignorant but I guess I understand because of her generation. My mom is a little different. They accept my transition in their own ways but really don't make effort to call me by any male pronouns. Ever. If anything I am noticing more female pronouns and things like that. Maybe I am hyperaware or maybe they are doing it without even knowing it. Either way, I know what you mean.
I've really never been feminine though. And my mother used to joke that I was the son she never had. So I guess they really don't expect anything else from me at this point.
It does feel like people hold transguys to a standard of masculinity that cis guys don't get held to. Before I came out, most people considered me very masculine. It was a running joke in my family that I was more of a dude than my brother because he's the type of person who'll spend two hours making sure his hair and clothes are just right and stuff, but he's still pretty masculine and nobody would ever say otherwise. But when I came out it was like everyone started picking apart everything I did and holding it to this standard of masculinity that was just ridiculous, like they were looking for things that made me less of a man. It's such a double standard ::)
I really noticed this when I came out. I now get regular reminders I need to get my hair cut because it's longer than 1.5" when no one else has had a haircut in 6 months. They keep making remarks about how small my hands are, too. (Like I haven't noticed that.) I also got called to go check the garage at one in the morning last week because they thought someone was breaking in. They said something ridiculous about me being the man and me having to be the one who does these things. The noise was caused by a box sliding down the stack and knocking over a broom.
I'm waiting for someone to tell me to go change the oil in their car now. ::)
I made it really clear to everyone when I came out that I'm not changing who I am...just the packaging. It has nothing to do with how I express my masculinity (or more accurately, my lack thereof), I told them.
So far no one's given me any grief about it, but perhaps it's only a matter of time.
Come to think of it though, my siblings (heck many of my extended family even) are pretty neutral when it comes to gender expression. Girls, guys...we do what we like for the most part. Probably one reason why it took me 27ish years to figure out what the heck was going on with me all this time.
Quote from: Padfoot92 on April 04, 2013, 10:23:02 PM
I'm waiting for someone to tell me to go change the oil in their car now. ::)
I'm waiting to hear this from my husband. It may never come though...lately I've been dressing in my dapperest men's wear and playing 'house husband' by making him surprise sandwiches and baked goods (it's Spring Break for me). He appears to enjoy this immensely; I guess because it's a bit of a treat; I never really felt comfy doing those sorts of things 'en femme'.
I bet there are people who expect me to turn into a stereotypical Finnish man over the course of transitioning further but not my family or friends. I've never been a girly girl to any extent, instead I've always been quite the opposite even without trying. But I have my not-so-masculine moments - I get freaked out by huge creepy crawlies, I like Korean pop music (it's seriously not something guys in Finland are into) and I like and draw gay erotic stuff (TMI?). I'm sure there are more non-masculine features of me, counting out my looks, but those come to my mind at the moment.
I'm in a relationship with a (cis)woman but I consider myself to be a bisexual, although I don't like to categorize myself or anyone else for that matter. If someone mistakes me for a gay - because that's very common in Finland when it comes to even slightly non-masculine guys - I just might answer "No, but thanks for the compliment" just to throw them off.
And like in many cases, it's a stereotype Finnish men like certain sports and drink beer. I dislike them both. Greatly.
The profession I graduated into - surface treatment AKA I'm a professional painter - is education-wise female-dominated but in the work field it's male-dominated so I kinda fit and don't fit into it both at the same time. :D
Someone I know once criticized me for the way I dress. Something about how I dress feminine but complain about wanting to look more masculine. I don't think I dress that feminine at all, other than maybe a couple of things I own. But I guess anything that's not baggy jeans and hoodies isn't manly enough.
Trans guys are definitely held to a different expectation of stereotypically masculine behavior than cis guys. Doesn't help that the only FTM most people know about is Chaz Bono and he loves to go on about how much he likes drinking beer, watching football and "being one of the guys."
Quote from: Sly on April 05, 2013, 04:22:46 AM
Trans guys are definitely held to a different expectation of stereotypically masculine behavior than cis guys. Doesn't help that the only FTM most people know about is Chaz Bono and he loves to go on about how much he likes drinking beer, watching football and "being one of the guys."
^ This, and the same is true for our MtF sisters too. They are expected (particularly by some of the GICs) to be hyper-feminine all the time. One of our MtF board members posted a couple of months ago that her GIC has delayed starting her on HRT because she's unable to wear make-up every time she leaves the house. Trouble is, she has a skin condition that makes it impossible for her to wear make-up on the days when she has a bad flare-up. That is holding her to an unfairly high standard that ciswomen aren't generally expected to meet. It seems that we're not allowed to have 'off days'.
I get irritated at other people's expectations that I should want to be a 'bloke', i.e. the British stereotype of a beer-drinking, football-watching, skirt-chasing guy. But I'm not: I prefer cider, I quite like rugby, and I bat for the other team. Somehow, that's not masculine enough for them. ::)
I definately got the same feeling. Like as soon as you got the label male or female you have to confirm to standardized expectations. Whenever the guys in my family start talking about cars I always wonder if they expect me to tune in, even though I know nothing about cars, and as long as it drives I'd be happy enough with it.
But then again, I am lucky to have an elder gay brother. He is definately not the standard issue macho man. He has always been more girly than me, and ever since we were kids, we have been joking about that. My family totally accepts him, and I think he let them know that not all men conform to stereotypes. And because I am gay too, I do not think they expect a whole lot different from me.
But yes, there seems to be a general idea out there that if you 'decide' to change your gender, you should end up as a stereotypical macho man, who's after the girls.
I have no idea whether my family has certain expectations of me or not. I haven't heard about them at least. I still hate sports, know nothing about cars (not even how to drive one), and knit better than any of the women in my (close) family. That ain't gonna change. I'd love for any one of them to suggest it should.
My mom has said that sort of stuff to me, and a few other family members now and again. I like my response. If someone says "guys don't do that" I'll say "this one just did." Lol.
Quote from: democration on April 04, 2013, 08:10:32 PM
I know that my boyfriend's mom is a little confused because he wants to be, in her words, a "feminine guy and dress in feminine clothes". There's definitely a mentality for some people that's like, If you're not going to conform to the stereotypical manly, masculine male, why transition? - Or it seems that way sometimes.
What do you think? Do your family/friends expect you to behave or dress a certain way because you identify as male, and if they do, is it frustrating for you?
my famely dosent care so much even when I do notice my moms comment have turned diffrently where before she would say I shouldnt have my hair that short she now ask me if it isnt a time for a haircut soon.
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im also pretty lucky with most of my friends as many are queer,femeninst and other part in some minds where it dosent matter so much but I do have specially old friends or people I just meet and tell im trans who kinda expect me to be very male binary..
this is a pretty annoying issue for me, I think the whole "real man thing" is kind of an oppression for men, but I also think that transpeople tend to get it harder because its like people really focus alot more in the "your a man right so you should do that" thing.
I get treated so much differently based on how I dress, it's super confusing. If I'm dressed down like in a hoodie and jeans, I get read as a high schooler whereas when I'm dressed for work (see avatar) I'm seen as much closer to my actual age (24) or sometimes even older. This leads to a lot of stereotyping. When I'm casual, people treat me like I'm a dumb young macho latino guy who knows nothing about anything lol. Then I get dressed up and people think I'm a doctor - it's happened a few times in the last month. Last week this guy comes up to me in a store and lifts up his shirt asking me to look at a bruise he had. I was like umm what? And he goes you're a doctor right? Was flattering and really odd at the same time haha. I mean, obviously there are much worse stereotypes for people to have but just the huge range between these perceptions is bizarre. Maybe it's just time to let the hoodies and baggy jeans go...
Actually lexical, I was thinking just the other day that you look like a doctor. Lol. Although, I think I remember from a pic you posted quite a while ago that you were working at a hospital? Or doing something at a hospital?
I definitely know how you feel.
When I came out, my dad and I had a 'chat' where he tried to tell me that he needed to show me how to play basketball and how to throw a baseball, and he was being serious - he seemed to think that I would never pass if I didn't know these things. I laughed. I definitely don't act like a 'typical' guy, but I'm totally cool with it, because for me, what it comes down to is...when nothing would make you happier than having a penis - then yeah, you're a guy, even if you've got girly parts down there.
My almost completely female gym class (almost because of me) all learnt how to play basketball, baseball, soccer, football, rugby, etc.
I get the opposite actually. I keep getting people telling me that it's ok to be an effeminate guy or assuming I'll be fine with them complaining about guys having traits I also have. I keep telling them that's great and it is, but I upped the effeminate behaviour to pretend to be someone I'm not and now it makes me feel really uncomfortable.
I wish people didn't have to be one or the other or "somewhere in the middle." It would be nice to just be able to be both without people making a fuss.
I actually wish that my family believed in stereotypes more than they actually do. A year or so I came out to my parents -- we've since ignored it and I'm trying to get the courage to come out again at the moment -- and while my father said that there were more surprising things that I could have said (stereotypes working in my favour there!) my mother couldn't understand why I couldn't just bend the gender stereotypes like I have been doing my whole life and be butch and not care about fashion like she does.
I fit almost perfectly into the male stereotype, I'm doing an engineering course, I've always dressed masculine, I wanted to join the army for years until I found out that my SI history is an immediate disqualifier, as a child I was always up trees or in muddy rivers. The only way I could get more stereotypically masculine if I tried was to care about football (soccer) and have posters of half naked women in my room. The furthest I'll go down those lines will be getting my girlfriend to teach me how to kick a ball this summer because I can't remember the last time I did that and I'd like to be able to join in something if I ever go stealth in my education in the future, and would like to do that if we ever have children a long way in the future.
I think that stereotypes have worked in my favor so far. Before I came out, my mom would always kind of scolding me for acting like a guy. I left my room hideously messy all the time, I took five minutes to get ready in the morning, I liked my hair short, I played video games. I never liked make-up or dresses, I was literally not allowed in the kitchen for a while because I was such a bad cook, and I don't like shopping.
All that helped, I think, in that my family almost kind of saw it coming when I came out to them. So - in that regard - I'm a little glad that I actually do live up to some of the basic stereotypes, as it's sort of validating for my family. Of course, there are stereotypes that I don't fall under, too.
I definitely see how it could be more frustrating to guys who aren't naturally inclined towards these stereotypes.
An example just in my family is that the majority of my cismale relatives are really computer savvy (my dad and two of my uncles are computer programmers, and my brother's building his own computer). I spend quite a lot of time on the computer, so I'm knowledgeable, too... but I'll admit that my brother knows more about troubleshooting than I do. Basically, my family leaves electronic issues to the guys. We were having trouble with the TV once, and my mom looks at me and says, "We'll let the men handle it." :|
She apologized as soon as I made a face, but yeah. I feel kind of crappy every time anyone skips over me to ask my little brother for technical help. *shrug*
When trying to figure out the motives of individuals I put myself in their situation. To a lot of people who have a trans relative they feel like the person they had before in their life is gone. What they fail to realize is mainly the shell is what is changing. I don't believe they're trying to be offensive when they bring a stereotypical male interest or "male responsibility" to the attention of a transman. They very well may see it as they are being supportive and treating you as you wish to be treated.
It took a long time for people to see that I'm the same that I've always been. Still afraid of spiders, will run from a bee, love shopping, and definitely not the guy to call if something with your car goes awry. I have however used their stereotypical thinking to my advantage in some situations and learned skills (plumbing etc) by being invited as a bystander or helper now.
Quote from: Simon on April 07, 2013, 08:59:27 PM
It took a long time for people to see that I'm the same that I've always been. Still afraid of spiders, will run from a bee, love shopping, and definitely not the guy to call if something with your car goes awry. I have however used their stereotypical thinking to my advantage in some situations and learned skills (plumbing etc) by being invited as a bystander or helper now.
I'm counting on being able to jump into a couple of projects to learn more about them. I've always wanted to try working on a car or gutting out a house but used to be pushed off to the side so I wouldn't get my clothes dirty or some other nonsense. Sometimes stereotypes can be helpful.
QuoteSometimes stereotypes can be helpful.
Agreed. For the most part, stereotypical man expectations are one of my favorite parts of transitioning.
It has inspired me to push myself to grow. For me, physical transition is not enough. I needed change in other areas, too.
I am the same basic person except for becoming unstuck in the same old goo. Comfort zones can become prisons.