Hi people,
I'm a very sensetive, emotional, shy, afraid ''woman''
But I feel like a guy, but I noticed that it's way more OK for a girl to ask for help
It's way more OK to be sensetive and a crying person
As a guy you have to toughen up
And this is the REASON why I might NOT transition
While I HATE my body
Is it true that male friends would want you to toughen up
drink beer in bars
and not be an emotional guy
Is that true? Should I stay a woman
Because I'm the type who likes to cry?
Hi zeekoe and welcome!!
I do not think that you have to be "tough" or "unemotional" to be a guy. Those are gender stereotypes. I've known lots of sensitive emotional men and don't consider them to be less "manly". If anything it takes real balls to be vulnerable.
Your male friends will accept you as you are, if they ostricize you for not conforming to society's ridiculous idea of what a "man" is... then THEY are the ones with the problem. Not you. Your real friends will accept you.
Being a man means being you.
Hi Zeekoe,
Well in answer to your first question, from what I've known and observed, yes. Guys tend not to handle emotional guys too well. It's not there class. You're expected to "man up" and take it on the chin, sorta thing.
However; for your second question, I'm afraid you're the only person who can answer that.
Sure there will be thousands of people to give you millions of advice, but, at the end of the day, this is your call.
Finding your true inner self will more than answer these few questions, it will give you the gift of life.
Keep exploring and discovering the real you
Huggs
Catherine
Quote from: Catherine Sarah on April 05, 2013, 07:51:10 AM
Hi Zeekoe,
Well in answer to your first question, from what I've known and observed, yes. Guys tend not to handle emotional guys too well. It's not there class. You're expected to "man up" and take it on the chin, sorta thing.
However; for your second question, I'm afraid you're the only person who can answer that.
Sure there will be thousands of people to give you millions of advice, but, at the end of the day, this is your call.
Finding your true inner self will more than answer these few questions, it will give you the gift of life.
Keep exploring and discovering the real you
Huggs
Catherine
thanks your right in the end i should decide it. but it's really scary, i'm raised as a woman, and i would not like to chin up, i am just emotional that's me. so i wonder, as a woman i suit perfectly in this world, but it's not who i am, it's very confusing.
but thank you, i will have 10 months before the gender team will talk about diagnostics whether i'm trans or not, i wonder how it goes, bt at least 10 months before i can speak about it, i have enough months to sort stuff out, it's a life changing decision so..
i think the people on here could answer it best who have been raised as a boy/man, like MTF's, did you experience that the world was more tough when you were a man? i wonder. or am i just over generalizing that it's just all just doom scenarios in my head, that guys are just as much respected as woman? hmm, well i guess MTF's could tell ^^
thank you for your replies to my topics, they were helpful.
good luck on your journey Catherine
Greetz.
Hi zeekoe
Quote from: zeekoe on April 05, 2013, 09:35:25 AM
....... i should decide it. but it's really scary,
Absolutely. It's really scary for all of us. Being scared can be a good thing. Makes us question every thought and feeling to test whether it's true or not.
Quote from: zeekoe on April 05, 2013, 09:35:25 AM
i'm raised as a woman, and i would not like to chin up, i am just emotional that's me. so i wonder, as a woman i suit perfectly in this world, but it's not who i am, it's very confusing.
Completely understand. Yes it is very confusing, and probably the hardest thing to do along this journey is to "find out who I am." Once you've done that, the rest is just so easy.
Quote from: zeekoe on April 05, 2013, 09:35:25 AM
.......i will have 10 months before the gender team will talk about diagnostics whether i'm trans or not, i wonder how it goes, bt at least 10 months before i can speak about it, i have enough months to sort stuff out, it's a life changing decision so..
You are doing all the right things. Just talking about your thoughts and feelings can free up the confusion and clarify so many things.
And absolutely YES. It is without doubt, totally life changing.
Quote from: zeekoe on April 05, 2013, 09:35:25 AM
...... did you experience that the world was more tough when you were a man?
Yes. Without a doubt. When I acted out trying to be a man, those "real" men (who had correct hormonal male levels) certainly made it hard for me. I too was sensitive and a little emotional, and it wasn't good. I was picked on a lot because of that. Sure there are sensitive and motional guys in the world. Artists, writers, producers etc. They too have to find there ground to stand on as well as there safe places.
Quote from: zeekoe on April 05, 2013, 09:35:25 AM
i wonder. or am i just over generalizing that it's just all just doom scenarios in my head, that guys are just as much respected as woman? hmm, well i guess MTF's could tell ^^
I don't think you are over generalising, and doom scenarios may be a bit harsh. In a way, guys are just as respected as women, but in a guys domain. As much as women respect each other, in a women's domain.
Quote from: zeekoe on April 05, 2013, 09:35:25 AM
thank you for your replies to my topics, they were helpful. good luck on your journey Catherine
Thank you for your kind thoughts. That's what we are here for. To support each other.
Be safe, well and happy
Lotsa huggs
Catherine
Hmmm
I know 3 friends, they are VERY male, they are very big, and they like watching a lot of the anime I consider 'girlie' anime.
Strong is defined as doing what you know to be right.
Tough is to be seen to do what is right.
Weak is to go along with the pack and conform.
If you be a female considering being a male, consider this. Part of being male is being tough and not crying. But the part I have the biggest problem with, is the part where it seems required to be a jerk to be male. Macho is spelled 'a s s h o l e' in English by the way :) It's the same as being a feminist doesn't mean you be a biotch :)
Are you up to being a typical male, or a real man? They actually are different.
Quote from: zeekoe on April 05, 2013, 07:40:04 AM
Hi people,
I'm a very sensetive, emotional, shy, afraid ''woman''
But I feel like a guy, but I noticed that it's way more OK for a girl to ask for help
It's way more OK to be sensetive and a crying person
As a guy you have to toughen up
And this is the REASON why I might NOT transition
While I HATE my body
Is it true that male friends would want you to toughen up
drink beer in bars
and not be an emotional guy
Is that true? Should I stay a woman
Because I'm the type who likes to cry?
Most defenitely..if you are a guy and you are about to cry..you better go to the bathroom or anywhere wheere other dudes will not see you..otherwise you will be labelled a "wuss"....
Good news is that after a few weeks on testosterone...ah! magic.. you will change....
Well, like Peky said, you may very well lose the ability to cry on testosterone. I did. However, I don't think men are less emotional. I just think it's much harder physically to cry because of hormones. This is why men don't cry for the most part. It's physically much harder than for people on estrogen. You can't even will or force tears to come when you need to.
But also, societal factors of course play a part in this. Because of the natural inability to cry for males, it's turned into a 'must' that they don't.
Also, I've found that guys in general are much kinder to each other than you'd expect. Especially in the adult world. In fact, guys are much friendlier and kinder to me upon first meeting than they ever were when I was female (and I was very attractive as female so...).
Sure there may be circles of guys who are pretty rough that you'd have a hard time in, but this is not all or even most guys, especially in the adult world.
I found that expectations of how to act as a guy and how I would be treated as a guy hampered me more than anything. Just be yourself. Confidence is everything as a male. If you're afraid, they'll pick up on it. Just be yourself and be unapologetic about it.
Either I am so utterly female that no amount of testosterone can stop it, or that stuff about crying doesn't bear up.
If I yawn I become Niagara Falls. My eyes water for the slightest reason.
I can cry quite easily. The first 5 times watching Lion King I was a complete fountain during the opening.
I cry during plenty of my anime shows.
I cry during plenty of the music I listen to.
I'm unable to listen to Amazing Grace on b->-bleeped-<-ipes and not become a complete mess.
I spend most of Remembrance Day crying.
And you say estrogen will make this worse? I better take out stock in Kleenex.
Women can smell confidence a mile away. Those that are FTM better start practicing up on it. Because you better have it down pat.
Men on the other hand are sharks with blood in the water when it comes to fear. If you show fear you're done.
Most male aggression is just pre emptive fear management.
The only real way to be really out of the ordinary, and not need to worry about things like crying and emotional, is to reek of so much confidence that the men will mistake it as you no something they can't see. That will then trigger fear in them.
Sounds idiotic right? Well so much of being male IS kinda idiotic unfortunately.
Not that being female is a picnic. I am learning, that maybe half the friction between my wife and myself, is the cliche 'don't put two women in the same kitchen' phenomenon. We but heads mainly along those lines. Sort of funny when I realize she's just reacting to me being another woman in the home.
Short answer to your question in the title - yes.
Two things. First thing, please understand that the main focus of transitioning is for you to be able to function as yourself as much as possible, i.e. as an individual human being - congruent in mind, body and soul.
The only way you're able to do this is to explore and discover yourself, know yourself, and find ways of expressing yourself appropriate (to you) which as you shift from your current gender role to your correct one may need some work.
Second thing, be careful about confusing machismo for masculinity. In many cases they may appear to be the same thing, but the truth is they're two entirely different things.
Machismo can be seen as 'traditional male heterosexual masculinity' which is different from actual masculinity (the real thing), which is considered typical biological behaviour of males.
Machismo is a form of social conditioning which believes in a social hierarchy and oppresses not just homosexual males, women, and of course, anyone who is trans. It also oppresses many heterosexual males.
Machismo is not natural, it is not immutable, and certainly isn't biological.
Forms of oppression include sexist jibes, domestic violence, rape, homophobic and transphobic taunts, and 'queer-bashing' (i.e. physical attacks on gays and people who are trans). It is also the source of toughness and aggression which allows for the social violence of racist attacks, police brutality and torture, and war.
Machismo is a social product of a specific set of culturally constructed ideologies and institutions.
In many societies throughout the world these institutions and ideologies continue to result in male children being raised and socialized quite differently from female children. They tend to be conditioned to see rivalry, toughness, domination and even violence as acceptable and even normal attributes for young boys and 'real' men.
During boyhood these harsh machismo values (presented as 'normal' masculine ones) often become internalized and machismo becomes seen as a routine, legitimate and even desirable mode of male behaviour.
Conversely things such as emotion, sensitivity, gentleness, persuasion and conciliation tend to be looked down on amongst many men. They are frequently depicted within our culture as signs of weakness, typically associated with women and with homosexuals. Men are often criticized for openly displaying such traits.
In such a culture from a very early age many male children learn to be competitive, strong, aggressive and unyielding. The idea that many problems can be ultimately resolved, and quite often should be solved, by threats and violence become etched in their minds.
This social construct of machismo and a mass of aggressive male egos is a prerequisite for oppression along the common lines of gender, sexual orientation, social class, and ethnicity.
A few homosexuals and women also adopt their oppressor's machismo (for example radical feminists) for the exact same reasons.
Radical feminists are not part of the contemporary LGBT movement, which was started by trans folk in the Stonewall riots and reinforced by the S/M Leather Community and further developed by the Gay Liberation Front which sought to reestablish orthodox or actual masculine values. The S/M Leather community promotes values such as brotherhood, honour, pride and integrity.
All forms of oppression are sustained through two conditions.
The first condition is the maintenance of specific economic, political and ideological structures.
The second is on a significant proportion of the population being socialized into the acceptance of harsh masculine values which involve making aggression socially acceptable and the suppression of gentleness and emotion.
In accepting and embracing these values is what makes millions of people - mostly heterosexual males but also some women and homosexuals - able to take part in repressive regimes.
This is what I was alluding to in my previous posting in Lesley Roberta's thread on gender and perception. Transphobia is part of this oppression.
It is important to remember that not all men accept machismo as being acceptable and valid - many rebel and dissent. This is something I discovered during my years as an LGBT activist when I proactively sought the support of heterosexuals for the LGBT community.
You will find another rather large group of similarly oppressed heterosexual men within the BDSM community - usually identifying as male submissives. Some of them face as many difficulties in their relationships and conflicts within their nature as trans folk.
So therefore back to the OP - just focus on being yourself and please don't buy into machismo. You can of course pretend (like many people do) but buying into machismo isn't necessary to define your masculinity.
Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on April 05, 2013, 07:38:34 PM
Either I am so utterly female that no amount of testosterone can stop it, or that stuff about crying doesn't bear up.
If I yawn I become Niagara Falls. My eyes water for the slightest reason.
I can cry quite easily. The first 5 times watching Lion King I was a complete fountain during the opening.
I cry during plenty of my anime shows.
I cry during plenty of the music I listen to.
I'm unable to listen to Amazing Grace on b->-bleeped-<-ipes and not become a complete mess.
I spend most of Remembrance Day crying.
And you say estrogen will make this worse? I better take out stock in Kleenex.
Well, clearly some biologically male people cry easier than others. I'm just saying I noticed it's become almost physically impossible for me on T. It does still occasionally happen, but much rarer than it used to be. It may be genetics because I've only seen my dad cry at really emotional stuff like funerals.
Oh, eye watering doesn't affect it. I have allergies and mine constantly water. Not the same thing. Anyway, this not crying thing is something I hate so much that I've actually held off taking my dose this week to see if it helps. It's great to be able to cry when you need to even as a guy. Obviously, you should hold off in public.
even if you are a female, keep the crying "private"
I seen too many times as women gets 'emo" at the work place, and does a few boo hoo hoos...yes, she gets the sympathy and a "pity party" from the other females and even from some the males...but later on the whole thing comes back to bite her in the ass..
The bosses would say: "well, I am not sure about "Jane Doe," she can get "emo," we need to have soembody who can "keep it together"
Now, if you are a male and you cry at your work place, men...you better start looking for a new job....
QuoteYou can't even will or force tears to come when you need to.
male actors can cry at will very well, and even some of the manly ones like robert dinero. yes men do cry , but just not as easily,
also crying is not a sign of weakness, don't buy into that hype, zeekoe
here are some men and women who cry
Godley and Creme - Cry (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxtPRF6NG7I#)
Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on April 06, 2013, 01:54:55 PM
QuoteYou can't even will or force tears to come when you need to.
male actors can cry at will very well, and even some of the manly ones like robert dinero. yes men do cry , but just not as easily,
also crying is not a sign of weakness, don't buy into that hype, zeekoe
Well, that's a trick I'd like to learn then.
Men Crying In Movies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFSlNGH3DIE#)
it just take practice
You should really watch Boy's don't cry with Hillary Swank
Boys Don't Cry Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOarssJWHhI#)
Seen it. Don't recall much crying in it though.
If you're not talking to me, are you trying to scare the OP? lol
I've always been a really emotional and sensitive person. I don't feel any less of a guy because of it though. It's a personality temperment, there are tons of sensitive guys and there are tons of girls who aren't that sensitive at all. I don't cry in public (anymore :P) but besides that I don't make any effort to hide that I'm a pretty sensitive guy, I don't want to be a stereotype I'd rather be me
Kia Ora Z,
Just be yourself -that is a "Gentle-man" in every sense of the word...
Once you start the 2 Ts =transitioning & testosterone you will evolve into who you are meant to be
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on April 05, 2013, 07:45:35 PM
Women can smell confidence a mile away. Those that are FTM better start practicing up on it. Because you better have it down pat.
Men on the other hand are sharks with blood in the water when it comes to fear. If you show fear you're done.
Most male aggression is just pre emptive fear management.
The only real way to be really out of the ordinary, and not need to worry about things like crying and emotional, is to reek of so much confidence that the men will mistake it as you no something they can't see. That will then trigger fear in them.
Sounds idiotic right? Well so much of being male IS kinda idiotic unfortunately.
Not that being female is a picnic. I am learning, that maybe half the friction between my wife and myself, is the cliche 'don't put two women in the same kitchen' phenomenon. We but heads mainly along those lines. Sort of funny when I realize she's just reacting to me being another woman in the home.
This would be totally hilarious if it wasn't so F'n true :o