One of the things I've always noticed about my dysphoria is that when it's triggered a feeling of jealousy seems to come along with it.
For example: I was talking to a friend of mine and my girlfriend's a while ago and the first thing I noticed was how deep his voice was. That triggered my dysphoria because a deeper voice is something I want badly. My voice is already pretty deep at times for being pre-T since I've trained myself to be able to lower it but I was painfully aware that it still wouldn't sound male enough compared to our friend's. I mentioned his deep voice to my girlfriend and she commented that "yeah, he sounds like a grown man" which not only inflamed my dysphoria but made me seethe with jealousy.
In that first example, the jealousy seemed to be brought on by my dysphoria but it also happens the other way around too where my feeling of jealousy causes me to feel dysphoric. For another example: I used to go to the gym to work out but don't even bother anymore because I can't stand seeing all of the guys weight training and showing off their bodies. It made me insanely jealous and just triggered my dysphoria, causing me to hate my female body even more.
I just wondered if anyone else has ever experienced this or if it's a common part of feeling dysphoric.
I definitely get jealous, especially when it comes to strength and seeing bio-guys in better shape than I am. At work when people need help with heavy lifting, it always aggravates me when they over look me and go straight to the other guys baha. It definitely triggers my dysphoria and usually makes me feel really inadequate. I don't really have any tips to deal with it but you're definitely not alone.
Yeah I get dysphoric when seeing bio guys being able to flex their bodies (though a huge part of that is also because I'm far from being fit).
But I get very dysphoric when I try to sing in a male voice. I can probably hold a deep male voice in tune for a few seconds. If I'm on webcam I put on a hat and only show from my neck up. Normally I can pass if I don't say anything but once I open my mouth, my voice pegs me as a female.
I think it's human nature to have tinges of jealousy every once in awhile. As long as it doesn't consume you or make you think less of yourself then I think it's quite normal.
I sometimes get a little jealous seeing guys with great top surgery results (or cis men with muscular hairy chest...yes, I want a carpet on my chest, lol). My transition has been different than most due to health issues. I have had my hysto first and am now waiting on top surgery. I feel lucky to have T and my hysto now but the chest is a big deal. Still having to deal with them is just uncomfortable (of course I'm dreading Summer...again).
Don't get me wrong, when I see that someone is getting ready to have their top surgery I am SO happy for them. I'm not a "hater" by any means. I'm just like, "dang, when is it going to be my turn". I feel like I have a reason to have these bouts of jealousy though. I've been binding for 14 years...yeah, you read that right. From financial hardships to medical issues there has always been something in the way. I don't have anyone to help me with the cost besides my gf so it's been a penny by penny savings for it. However, I do have hope that it will get done next year (fingers crossed but it looks very likely).
In the meantime I've found it helpful to try to think of ways to work towards my goals. It really eases the jealous moments and turns them into feelings of anticipation for the future. My "I WANT that" turns into "I WILL have that". For myself I've started a diet and exercise plan. If I have to wait so long to have this surgery then I'm going to do everything I can to better the outcome of it. Use the jealousy as motivation. Let it fuel you.
Quote from: Contravene on April 23, 2013, 12:56:45 AM
One of the things I've always noticed about my dysphoria is that when it's triggered a feeling of jealousy seems to come along with it.
I am extremely jealous when i see a good-looking, sexy and tall guy!! This is really bad because i feel like this almost every day and i am so tired of being jealous all the time! I am FTM and gay but usually when i see a good-looking guy i don't think that i want to be WITH him, instead i want to BE HIM. I can't stand shirtless guys because this just reminds me about my own body which i totally hate and the fact that i can't be shirtless in public.
This jealousy tends to turn into hate because it makes me feel SO helpless! I feel like whatever i do will always be just a pitiful attempt at being a man but i can never be a proper man anyway. :'( :(
Quote from: Contravene on April 23, 2013, 12:56:45 AM
I just wondered if anyone else has ever experienced this or if it's a common part of feeling dysphoric.
Yep. Definitely. I get jealous of everything really, but chests, voices, and facial hair especially. It really doesn't help that my voice is so high I can't get it anywhere near male range.
My boyfriend has an amazing bass singing voice. You can't imagine how secretly jelly I am. :laugh:
I am jealous of guys that are ahead of me re: medical transitioning. ESP this one guy, I don't talk to him much but I have him on fbk. Seriously want his life on t, surgery hot gf steady job and part time doing what he loves. Everything is going awesome for him. I keep telling myself, give it time and that I can have those things eventually. But I am also actively trying to improve my life, to doing things I enjoy and I find the more things I do for me that interest me, the more confident I get in myself and I slowly start seeing myself how I imagine dude sees himself which is pretty damn awesome.
I have more, wish I was him moments than I'm awesome as evident in the past. Though starting hrt my confidence seems to be improving daily.
Edit to add: I also get kinda pissed at cis dudes I think shouldn't have been given a penis and that I should have theirs. I know this is gross and I have no authority or anything to decide which human deserves what. This anger stems from jealousy and extreme dysphoria. I don't like feeling this way
I get jealous too, especially of cis guys. Why did they get born the way they should have and I didn't? Especially the idea of never ever having a functional penis while they do have that (usually) makes me very jealous. I also get a bit jelly of tall people. Sometimes I just get the feeling god or whichever one would believe in went like: Bwhahaha, I'm going to give you the wrong body -and- I'm going to make it very tiny! Mehehhehehe!
I am also jealous of any transguys who have partners. It gives me both hope and makes me jealous. People have always told me 'You can only love someone else when you love yourself' and they said that was the reason I haven't found anyone yet. But transmen also find love, even pre everything, and I can't imagine they are all very happy with themselves. So why do they succeed and I do not?
Ah, yes....Jealousy.
Quote from: Mr.X on April 25, 2013, 05:23:36 AM
I am also jealous of any transguys who have partners. It gives me both hope and makes me jealous. People have always told me 'You can only love someone else when you love yourself' and they said that was the reason I haven't found anyone yet.
I don't know why people say this, as clearly plenty of people who don't 'love themselves' are in loving relationships. I guess they mean just in a sense that you're a better partner to someone else if you love yourself first.
Well, I guess I'll ask this - Are you ready for a partner? If so, have you looked for one?
As for the topic, I'm not really a jealous person (outside of romantic relationships). I've never really been jealous of cis guys. I mean, there were a few I wished I looked like pre-T, but it was much more a hopeful thing than a jealous thing. If I see someone with something I want, that actually makes me feel good and inspired to go get it myself, whatever it is. As Simon suggested, let it fuel you.
For things you have no control over like height, and how deep your voice will get, try not to dwell on it. Plenty of cis guys would love to be taller or have deeper voices too. Try to only direct your focus and energy to things you have power over. There's nothing wrong with feeling envious, but it's only a constructive emotion when directed toward things you can change. Otherwise, it just makes you feel bad with no benefit. It may be a valid emotion, but a useless one.
For things you cannot change like height, voice, etc., try to redirect the jealousy. Ask yourself why you want to be taller, have a deep voice, etc. Why does any guy want to be taller or have a deeper voice? To feel more manly, more attractive, more confident, etc. Right? Rechannel the awful feelings of jealousy into other things you can do to give you the same feelings you think being taller or having a deep voice would give you.
As for things that will be changed with T, use the energy to get closer to that goal. If you must wait to be on T, just think of all the facial hair and flat chests and voices you're envious of as a preview of yourself in a few years or months or however long. I don't know about other guys, but getting on T and having top surgery was pretty anti-climactic for me. I was alot more excited about it before it actually happened. Try to thoroughly enjoy the anticipation. It may be the most excited you'll be about it.
I feel a little twinge of jealousy whenever I see cis guys with skinny little hips. That's one of the parts of my body that bugs me the most, and the only thing really that's visible when I'm clothed. And if they're wearing skinny jeans or something similarly form-fitting, it's even worse. I can still pass in skinnies, but god it makes my booty look huge and I hate it.
You're definitely not alone. I get jealous all the time.
The big thing now is seeing guys shirtless. It drives me insane. I live in a dorm, so there are guys walking around shirtless all the time. And it just pisses me off because I can't do that, I can't be like them. Whenever I even see a picture of a shirtless guy, I go crazy. That, and height. I feel like crap when I stand close to a guy who's 6' or more when I'm only 5'7.
I used to have the same issue with my voice. I would be upset because, no matter what, I just couldn't get my voice in a male range. And I would get jealous hearing guys sing, because I couldn't sing and sound like a man. I used to be probably a mezzosoprano pre-T. Now I'm something of a high baritone or really, really low tenor.
Quote from: Sebb on April 25, 2013, 05:39:38 PM
I feel like crap when I stand close to a guy who's 6' or more when I'm only 5'7.
I'm the same height and trust me, we're blessed to be that tall. A LOT of transguys are itty bitty (5 foot 1 or so).
Quote from: Simon on April 25, 2013, 06:02:43 PM
I'm the same height and trust me, we're blessed to be that tall. A LOT of transguys are itty bitty (5 foot 1 or so).
You're right, but it's still quite a bit below average for cis men.
Yeah, you could be like me and only reach up to 5'1 and an eighth of an inch on the wall, then again I've just started growing again after many years of that being dormant. So maybe I'll get in a good amount of growth.
Jealous? Hell yeah I'm jealous. I want to be 6'4 and grow out some sort of dark facial hair and have more muscle mass and no moobs. Don't even mention downstairs...
I shouldn't complain too much, though. My voice is cracking and very slowly getting deeper, and I can somehow grow those pathetic blonde sideburns 13 year olds get. So everyone thinks I'm just a teenage guy whose body is a little slow on the uptake.
Quote from: Simon on April 23, 2013, 01:50:19 AM
Use the jealousy as motivation. Let it fuel you.
Came in to post this
Quote from: dean1229 on April 23, 2013, 12:17:19 PM
I can't stand shirtless guys because this just reminds me about my own body which i totally hate and the fact that i can't be shirtless in public.
This jealousy tends to turn into hate because it makes me feel SO helpless! I feel like whatever i do will always be just a pitiful attempt at being a man but i can never be a proper man anyway. :'( :(
This is one of the few jealousies I have anymore. I can sort of pass shirtless, but if I were to be in a crowded setting I would probably get nervous. That, and when I'm with a group that knows I'm trans, and certain questions are brought up. For example a female asks about tucking our junk (like to the left or right side, etc). Especially weird for me because I was seated across from my ex girlfriend. Ehh.
Quote from: chuck on April 25, 2013, 11:57:51 PM
Came in to post this
Also that's a good motivator. I think about that before and while I work out.
Quote from: jackofspades on May 04, 2013, 09:49:21 PM
Also that's a good motivator. I think about that before and while I work out.
Yeah I have a picture of Sagi Kalev on my wall that way I am forced to see him every time I wake up (and I workout in my bedroom so I have to see him working out too). It's a great motivator.
Yes. I experience the same. I get jealous a lot, of trans and cis guys and it makes me super dysphoric.
Hi Contravene, I hope you don't mind one of the girls coming over to comment :)
I feel it is just a natural secondary consequence of being trans... If our bodies are incongruent with our minds, aligning them requires a desire to change. In that desire and change, we look at the traits of other people, even if an impossible trait to change (like height). Those traits are what are in harmony with what is inside. I feel that is the jealously factor!
Kind of crazy though... Seriously, the dysphoria-jealously factor is ridiculous... It can go from the physical (like being jealous of someone's body) to even social situations (that I can't be a part of). I try to push it out of my mind, but always comes back!
On a more serio note, after reading this, I have come to the conclusion that someone needs to make a switching machine for us MTFs and FTMs... That would be the day lol! We could have the perfect trade offs lol ;)
Thanks for letting me intrude for that brief bit! :)
Same for me here. Whenever I see tall, masculine cis-guys, my dysphoria goes through the roof.
I'm only about 5'4" as well, and I generally look like a typical 12 year old boy. I don't talk much because when I do, I'm outed automatically. I can't pass once one syllable comes out of my mouth.
I notice this jealousy in myself much too much. Sometimes, I even get jealous of cis-women that have small breasts or naturally deep voices. But, most of all I get jealous of cis-guys who can just throw on a shirt without having to worry about binding and can walk around topless.
I don't get jealous too much anymore because I look how I want to look for the most part. The one thing I still get jealous about though is strength. Part of my job is building furniture and we load it into people's cars. The guy I work with most often is about 8 inches taller than me and 80 lbs heavier and is able to lift so much more than I can. I know I'm strong for my size (pull ups are a good indication of this) but it upsets me that no matter how much I train, I'll never be as strong as him just because of how small I am.
Remember that non trans guys get jealous of other guys too. A couple weeks ago, one of my guy friends told me he's jealous of my facial hair because he can't grow decent sideburns at age 24. Man did I love hearing that, put things into perspective. We all want something that someone else has at some point.
Oh yes, I'm really jealous of cisguys! In a rare case also ciswoman who look really manly, but as I'm pretty masculine myself (for a woman (though still not passable, most of the time :()), I don't suffer from that too much.
But ooh... the cisguys...
I used to think I was straight (when still trying to identify as a girl) or gay (when I discovered and accepted I'm trans), because I ALWAYS notice guys. Always see how hot and awesome they are. See their bodies, faces, hair, muscles, voice (SEE a voice, hmmm ::) no, I'm not a synaesthetic XD)... but later I found out that's all jealousy!
I was just analysing my thoughts as I saw those guys, and they weren't of the "Oooh, I wanna make out with him" type, more like "Ohh, damn, why is he so hot!? Why does he have EVERYTHING I want but DON'T have!?". When it comes to seeing hot girls I don't feel ANY jealousy at all. I just think "Whoah! What a nice looking girl!" in a more romantic sense. I never look at a sexy woman and think "DAMN! I want her body!"
Quote from: Erik Ezrin on May 08, 2013, 05:38:17 AM
I used to think I was straight (when still trying to identify as a girl) or gay (when I discovered and accepted I'm trans), because I ALWAYS notice guys. Always see how hot and awesome they are. See their bodies, faces, hair, muscles, voice (SEE a voice, hmmm ::) no, I'm not a synaesthetic XD)... but later I found out that's all jealousy!
I was just analysing my thoughts as I saw those guys, and they weren't of the "Oooh, I wanna make out with him" type, more like "Ohh, damn, why is he so hot!? Why does he have EVERYTHING I want but DON'T have!?". When it comes to seeing hot girls I don't feel ANY jealousy at all. I just think "Whoah! What a nice looking girl!" in a more romantic sense. I never look at a sexy woman and think "DAMN! I want her body!"
Later I found out I'm the same in this. For a while I didn't know why I notice guys when I knew I'm attracted to girls. You pretty much answered it.
Some other thing I read somewhere a while ago is also that supposedly, people of the same sex are more likely to 'notice' the other sex.
Basically this would be because someone of the same sex might be a 'threaten' your chances to produce offspring and snatch your partner, while the other sex is more 'interesting'.
But yeah, I wouldn't know if this is correct. I haven't quite asked people about it.
And for transguys the feeling of jealousy would add up to that too.
As a genetic female who has yet to ever identify as male, I still ALWAYS have jealousy at others who have the features I truly desire.
Even larger men make me jealous because they ultimately have what I've always wanted.
I feel jealous of women who have large breasts for being so feminine, yet I also feel jealous of men who have the perfect man's voice or the perfect, trim beard. I just can't win this jealousy war. =____=
Let me also state that I have SEVERE BPD, so I get much more easily jealous over the little things. Like, I-want-to-slit-my-wrists-with-envy jealousy because I know I won't ever have those attributes.
Wow, so many replies! I know jealousy is a pretty common emotion, even for cis-gendered people too, but I never knew it could relate to dysphoria so much. Even though it sucks to experience it, I'm glad for all of the advice from everyone who has gone through or are going through the same thing.
I have experienced this quite recently. Ever since I moved in I have had the biggest crush on my college roommate who is a cis-guy. When I found that he had been dating this girl for a couple of months it deeply impacted my dysphoria and still has today. Seeing someone in a relationship in general hurts me because it is something that I believe I will never experience. There is a girl who I have been becoming close too and between the stress and curiosity of that had triggered this depression once I found out about my roommate. So here I am being completely self centered and upset about my roommate dating because I like him and interested in this girl, both of which bring on dysphoria.