lately i've come in contact with a few people who claim to be transsexual women "living in stealth". Small detail though: they don't plan to transition and
live their lives as men. ??? the definition of stealth as far as I know it:
QuoteStealth:
1.Living and passing in society in the opposite gender role, with absolutely no contact with the Community, and no knowledge of such by friends, coworkers, or associates.
how can anyone be "stealth" without living their lives as their target gender? nope, i don't agree. opinions? suggestions? comments?
Quote from: Katia on June 01, 2007, 05:47:54 PM
how can anyone be "stealth" without living their lives as their target gender? nope, i don't agree. opinions? suggestions? comments?
I may not tend to agree with you on other things, but I have to say I totally agree with you on this one.
maybe they mean stealth as in complete hiding, even from themselves.
That's the same kind of "stealth" common in cross-dressers who hides things even from their wives!!!
Its something all right, but its not stealth.
I've heard of people getting HRT and even SRS without ever transitioning
on the job and sometimes, even outside the job, in fact totally ignoring
the social aspect of gender and making it a very personnal, body image only
type correction. Obviously, these are rarer for of TS that I don't quite understand;
without the whole self-image and social aspect of gender, it takes on a body dysmorphic quality.
I would say it is stealth, but not Stealth.
I think rather than 'stealth', I'd sooner call that... denial. I suppose they have their reasons, but thats basically what it is. =/
Quote from: Keira on June 01, 2007, 06:07:45 PM
Its something all right, but its not stealth.
It's called "being in the closet." It's worse than being in the closet because they seem to not recognize that they are in the closet.
Katia,
I would have to agree with you here. Living stealth means living as the target gender without being detected. If you are not living as your target gender, it's true it's easier to hide being transsexual, but that is not stealth. Stealth = Passable 100% of the time.
Love always,
Elizabeth
Quote from: Keira on June 01, 2007, 06:07:45 PM
I've heard of people getting HRT and even SRS without ever transitioning
on the job and sometimes, even outside the job, in fact totally ignoring
the social aspect of gender and making it a very personnal, body image only
type correction. Obviously, these are rarer for of TS that I don't quite understand;
without the whole self-image and social aspect of gender, it takes on a body dysmorphic quality.
I can relate to that, sort of. For me, the big deal is that my body does not match my idea of what it should be, especially with regard to the sex-specific parts. On the other hand, I've spent the last couple of decades getting to a point where social gender roles have rather little to do with anything important to me -- the most noticeable aspects of transition would involve a name change, some hair transplants, and a rather different dress for formal occasions. Of course, I wouldn't be a very feminine woman, but then I gave up trying to be a noticeably masculine man a long time ago.
Still, being socially in the middle is about as far as I'm willing to go. If the dysphoria gets to a point of having serious physical changes, a social transition would be an obvious follow-up. Nevertheless, I can to some extent understand that someone else could have a different view.
Nfr
Is it stealth? No, not at all. this is just living in the closet. I knew five years ago that I was TS and wanted to be woman. I would by no means refer to these past years as living in stealth. I lived in denial and fear but not stealth. These folks are merely living in the closet still with the desire to live in their preferred gender roles. That is their choice and their decision and there is nothing wrong with that, but it isn't stealth.
Quote from: Lisbeth on June 01, 2007, 10:01:02 PM
It's called "being in the closet." It's worse than being in the closet because they seem to not recognize that they are in the closet.
Massive delusion, denial, being in the closet, illogical, foolishness, madness but
not stealth.
When I transitioned, the word stealth was used for aircraft ;)
When someone transitioned and left the "community" to live life completely as a woman, we'd just lose track of her. So that's what we'd say; "she's dissappeared into the woodwork", or "she's left the community", you know, stuff like that. Saying that someone has gone stealth or dark is just a bit easier to say I suppose.
Men living as men pretending to be stealth? Shoot I don't know. I suppose they can call it whatever they want. Don't we as a group tend to invent our own terms and language?
There's a galaxy up there, way out there, but closer than many... I dubbed the banana. Okay I actually called it something else but we'll use banana here for if I used the real term, I'd be outed in a heartbeat. But everywhere I've been, I've talked about the banana galaxy. And you know what? It has caught on. Everyone is calling this galaxy the banana right along with the whirlpool and pinwheel galaxies. No, it's not recognized by the AU as on official name, but who knows, someday it may.
If these people can keep the phrase alive until Webster picks up on it, then they are living in stealth. If my galaxy becomes recognized as the banana by the AU someday, I'll have a special place in astronomy. But until then, we're "just jivin".
Cindi
Quote from: Jeannette on June 02, 2007, 11:31:27 AM
Massive delusion, denial, being in the closet, illogical, foolishness, madness but not stealth.
These descriptions may well fit some cases, although not necessarily all -- for some it might be a conscious and legitimate choice, and perhaps such a person might even not be fully closeted. It's still most definitely not stealth, of course.
Nfr
Isn't there a time element to consider here as well? What do you call someone who is slowly looking for the right answers, navigating the hellish mineflelds as best as possible, telling people privately one at a time, and until full-time is possible, living every moment she can as a woman. And in public, no one seems to have any second thoughts about her being anything but a woman. There is quite a bit of stealth to this. If my fantasies came true, I, too, would disappear into the woodwork and build a new life. But I guess I won't be "stealth" until I can no longer be shot down by anyone's radar. So call me what you will, I think I'm being as stealthy as possible at this phase.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
Quote from: Kristi on June 02, 2007, 11:51:31 AM
Isn't there a time element to consider here as well? What do you call someone who is slowly looking for the right answers, navigating the hellish mineflelds as best as possible, telling people privately one at a time, and until full-time is possible, living every moment she can as a woman. And in public, no one seems to have any second thoughts about her being anything but a woman. There is quite a bit of stealth to this. If my fantasies came true, I, too, would disappear into the woodwork and build a new life. But I guess I won't be "stealth" until I can no longer be shot down by anyone's radar. So call me what you will, I think I'm being as stealthy as possible at this phase.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
This would be called exactly what you have described, but not stealth.
Quote from: Renae Lupini on June 02, 2007, 11:13:09 AM
That is their choice and their decision and there is nothing wrong with that
i wouldn't be too sure about that. it's wrong when you take
definitions out of context to conveniently apply them to yourself.
Quote from: Katia on June 01, 2007, 05:47:54 PM
1.Living and passing in society in the opposite gender role, with absolutely no contact with the Community, and no knowledge of such by friends, coworkers, or associates.
Why does interacting with other TSs invalidate being stealth? I mean OK, obviously marching in Pride Parades and stuff isn't stealth, but what about people who are able to hide their past from everyone in daily life, but choose to post here (with their real identity unknown) on Susans?
~Kate~
Quote from: Katia on June 02, 2007, 12:52:49 PM
Quote from: Renae Lupini on June 02, 2007, 11:13:09 AM
That is their choice and their decision and there is nothing wrong with that
i wouldn't be too sure about that. it's wrong when you take definitions out of context to conveniently apply them to yourself.
I wasn't referring to their definition of the word being alright. I was saying their actions and thoughts were theirs and ok to have them.
conveniently changing a word's definition to fit their own situation is not what I was referring to. ;)
Quote from: Kate on June 02, 2007, 01:02:42 PM
Quote from: Katia on June 01, 2007, 05:47:54 PM
1.Living and passing in society in the opposite gender role, with absolutely no contact with the Community, and no knowledge of such by friends, coworkers, or associates.
Why does interacting with other TSs invalidate being stealth? I mean OK, obviously marching in Pride Parades and stuff isn't stealth, but what about people who are able to hide their past from everyone in daily life, but choose to post here (with their real identity unknown) on Susans?
~Kate~
that'd be stealth. but naturally the less people know about our history, the more "stealth" we are [or become]. the key of it all, however, is to be living our lives and passing as our target gender without anyone knowing our past identities.
Quote from: Kate on June 02, 2007, 01:02:42 PM
Quote from: Katia on June 01, 2007, 05:47:54 PM
1.Living and passing in society in the opposite gender role, with absolutely no contact with the Community, and no knowledge of such by friends, coworkers, or associates.
Why does interacting with other TSs invalidate being stealth? I mean OK, obviously marching in Pride Parades and stuff isn't stealth, but what about people who are able to hide their past from everyone in daily life, but choose to post here (with their real identity unknown) on Susans?
~Kate~
IMO, those that are deep stealth and who would rather have a made up past than the one they actually repressing shame and guilt about who they really are. I am not pointing fingers or saying it is wrong. It is simply my observation.
What a bunch of tripe! Tee-heeee I dont know if some people are really joking or just plain dense. I am a stealth plant. Thats exactly how it sounds. Stupid.
This is your lucky day because my job used to be to work on stealth equipment and to do that I had to understand its underlying concepts in order to better understand how to fix the systems responsible for providing stealth.
First to achieve stealth you need to take a look around and observe your surroundings. In your case you will want to ask questions like, how do the people I want to be seen as; look, move, sound, act, react, dress, talk, what accent do they have, what attitudes do they show, and anything else that you can think of to describe them.
Next you will need to ask the same questions of yourself and when you have the answers you need to compare and contrast the results. Once this is done you need to make a plan or lay out a course of action that will get you from where you are now to where you want to be and once that is done you need to methodically set out to achieve each and everything in your plan.
QuoteDo you know what word comes to my mind? Closet.
Yes Miss Tink,
I concur, but I think the term is "closeted."
Thundra
Quote from: Kristi on June 02, 2007, 11:51:31 AM
. But I guess I won't be "stealth" until I can no longer be shot down by anyone's radar. So call me what you will, I think I'm being as stealthy as possible at this phase.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
That is not possible as there will always be someone who can clock you.
Stealth refers to a transsexual person who has transitioned and is living in their preferred gender role without other people knowing that they are transsexual.
It doesn't really matter if a random person clocks you if you are stealth; you just ignore it.
These guys would probably "clock" dozens of GG's anyway.
The only real Treat, are people who will background checks on you, these days, its so easy to do so, and not that expensive that living in stealth depends not be surrounded by jerks (always a good thing anyway :-).
People that know and respect you would probably not sick a PI on you, but I know real crapheads who would do just that to "prove a point" and boost their masculinity.
Quote from: Pia on June 03, 2007, 12:33:14 AM
Stealth refers to a transsexual person who has transitioned and is living in their preferred gender role without other people knowing that they are transsexual.
Seconded
Quote from: Katia on June 02, 2007, 01:36:39 PM
naturally the less people know about our history, the more "stealth" we are [or become]. the key of it all, however, is to be living our lives and passing as our target gender without anyone knowing our past identities.
And I think that hits the point right on the head. I think we can be stealth in some facets of our lives and out in other ones. That is how I am currently living just due to the fact that I'm still transitioning and dealing with the changes. I don't ever plan on going deep stealth (although I could), but I do plan on increasing my stealthiness. Sometimes you have the 2 sides collide. This has happened to me twice and almost a third time. Sometimes living partial stealth can be just as hard as one or the other because you are constantly trying to keep the 2 sides separated. For the most part, I definitely prefer the stealth side. And no, living as a man does not count as stealth. That's living in denial or at least the closet as others have said.