:)When I posted my intro, I said that on the part of the TG continuum
between a strictly defined M2F Hetero CD on the one hand, and a M2F-TS who is on hormones and has had SRS/GRS and is living full time as a
woman; I figured that I seem to be about 1/3 of the way between the
former and the latter. In a later post I said that I might have always
been at that place and always would be, or might (if it were a scale of 1-10) some day wake up and find that if I had been a 3, I was now a 4.
Since those posts, I have come to believe rather that where I am on the continuum is where I have always been and always will be; but that any changes in how I see myself are just a matter of further growth in self-understanding.
Because I see myself as existing not at a point where a specific "label"
might be appropriate, I prefer to identify myself to others by using the
umbrella sense of the word "transgendered." And my current self-under-
standing, like that of all of us, is unique to me.
I am curious to know whether others who find themselves somewhere
between CD and TS have developed a particular "label" for themselves,
or are content just to say, "I am transgendered."
Thanks,
:icon_chick: Sandra
QuoteBecause I see myself as existing not at a point where a specific "label"
might be appropriate, I prefer to identify myself to others by using the
umbrella sense of the word "transgendered." And my current self-under-
standing, like that of all of us, is unique to me.
Right now I think I'm somewhere in between, but I'm very early on figuring this stuff out. It has only been about six weeks since that light clicked on in my head. Right now, that is how I refer to myself as well. As I explore this more, I may change it or not.
I don't identify as either male or female, but am somewhere between or neither. I often describe myself as transgendered if there's no time to explain in more detail. Since visiting this site last fall, I've been also using androgyne as a way to describe myself. Ultimately, they're all labels though, I'm simply me :)
zythyra
Quote from: zythyra on June 02, 2007, 06:45:14 PM
... I'm simply me :)
And IMHO, that's the way it should be.
Rhonda
When I first came here November of 05 I called myself a CD but later found that I was more. I didn't just occasional feel like a women but was at lease partly women all of the time.
So I started using the label CD+.
Now I use thew label TS, a transsexual, because that is what I am. So that is my label. If I have surgery to fix my body than I will just call myself a women and use no other label.
Jillieann
Quote from: Jillieann on June 02, 2007, 11:41:47 PM
When I first came here November of 05 I called myself a CD but later found that I was more. I didn't just occasional feel like a women but was at lease partly women all of the time.
So I started using the label CD+.
Now I use thew label TS, a transsexual, because that is what I am. So that is my label. If I have surgery to fix my body than I will just call myself a women and use no other label.
Jillieann
So this begs the question, "Does having operations to change the outside of the body determine the woman on the inside?"
Can't we be women without having to undergo surgeries?
Yes.
I am a woman but because of my body being of the male gender I'm TS.
If it wasn't I would be just a women. ;)
Jillieann
Quote from: Jillieann on June 03, 2007, 12:12:21 AM
Yes.
I am a woman but because of my body being of the male gender I'm TS.
If it wasn't I would be just a women. ;)
Jillieann
So then after someone has surgery they are no longer TS?
For myself - I just think of myself as transgender - I am in the TG Spectrum somewhere.
Alice
QuoteCan't we be women without having to undergo surgeries?
I believe this to be true, but there's people here that disagree with this.
zythyra
I figure I'm somewhere in this spectrum although I don't know where exactly. In general for me anyway, its easier to keep trudging along and sticking it out as a male just because I have other matters to attend to (like college).
And the way I see it, and this is just for myself, I look the way I was always supposed to. My brain is the one that got screwed over. So as long as I can focus on college, classes and homework take my mind off of any conflict that exists within.
Quote from: Mattie on June 03, 2007, 11:39:33 PM
So as long as I can focus on college, classes and homework take my mind off of any conflict that exists within.
You may be right but let me throw this out there for you. I did nine years in the Marine Corps. The most manly of manly things. Four years of which was spent in the infantry. The conflict does ever go away and let something else take over. It is a nagging distraction that is always coming and going.
Food for thought :)
Also, Mattie, 'taking your mind off any conflict' sounds like you may be trying to suppress it, and that is not likely to work as a long-term solution. Some people have been able to resolve the conflict in a way that does not require transition, but even if that is the case with you, you must first accept that there is a conflict and then think things through very thoroughly. Your choice of words sounds like it might be a difficult process. In any case, it would probably be a good idea to find a therapist who has a lot of experience in TG issues, both with cases that led to transition and with cases that did not.
Nfr
Hi Sandra!
Glad you opened this topic...it is good to remind folks that there are those of us who don't identify as male or female.
- When talking with people in general, I use the term Transgendered. It is something they have heard of, and doesn't directly imply that I am Transsexual (which I'm not).
- When talking with friends or someone with an open mind, I use the term Androgyne.
- And, if discussing specifics with other Androgynes, I identify as a Fluid Intergendered Androgyne.
All uses of labels come with my standard disclaimer: Labels are only to be used to get your mind in the ballpark. Each of us are unique and some sterotypes of a label may apply and others may not...subject to change without notice.
So basically, I use the label that works best for my intended audience. If you are talking to co-workers or aquaintences, the broader term seems a good place to start...I don't want to spend hours explaining and they don't want to hear my life story. If you are talking to folks on the Androgyne board here at Susan's, (shameless plug), sometimes a little more specificity is required.
......Laurie
A Crossdresser periodically crossdresses. Cisgendered, their gender identity is that of their natal sex.
A Transgenderist desires to live as a member of the opposite sex either full-time or part-time. Transgendered, their gender identity is of the opposite sex. Unlike most Transsexuals, they do not pursue SRS/GRS. Some Transgenderists may be bi-gendered and maintain a separate persona and gender identity of their natal sex. The DSM IV acknowledges Transgenderists to be affected by GID. The HBIGDA Standards of Care also addresses the need and desire of hormone replacement therapy for Transgenderists.
A Transsexual desires to live as a member of the opposite sex. Transgendered, their gender identity is opposite their birth sex. Unlike Transgenderists, Transsexuals seek sex reassignment surgery.
Until recently, Transgenderists were treated poorly by the medical industry and in the Transsexual Community because of the misconception that Transgenderist were potential sex workers or wannabe Transsexuals.
-Emerald :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: Renae Lupini on June 02, 2007, 11:47:46 PM
Can't we be women without having to undergo surgeries?
I think so. In other cultures, a male-bodied person could be fully actualized and recognized as a woman simply by dressing and behaving like one. Transwomen would be women without surgeries or hormones, because being women is what transwomen do.
In our culture, simply dressing like a woman and behaving like one doesn't usually get you recognized as a woman. It more likely gets you beat up. Our culture is stuck on the idea that womanhood is determined by the body. Members of our culture tend not to recognize a woman as a woman unless her body is a female body. As members of our culture, many transwomen cannot recognize themselves as women until their bodies fit with that rule about what womanhood is comprised of.
However, I can imagine transwomen of other cultures recognizing their male bodies as women's bodies, right down to seeing her penis as feminine, floral, and womanly. I think this is right hard for most of us, though, it's not an understanding we've been given as kids and it's an understanding most people around us will say is wrong wrong wrong.
Quote from: Doc on June 04, 2007, 08:23:37 PM
Quote from: Renae Lupini on June 02, 2007, 11:47:46 PM
Can't we be women without having to undergo surgeries?
I think so. In other cultures, a male-bodied person could be fully actualized and recognized as a woman simply by dressing and behaving like one. Transwomen would be women without surgeries or hormones, because being women is what transwomen do.
In our culture, simply dressing like a woman and behaving like one doesn't usually get you recognized as a woman. It more likely gets you beat up. Our culture is stuck on the idea that womanhood is determined by the body. Members of our culture tend not to recognize a woman as a woman unless her body is a female body. As members of our culture, many transwomen cannot recognize themselves as women until their bodies fit with that rule about what womanhood is comprised of.
However, I can imagine transwomen of other cultures recognizing their male bodies as women's bodies, right down to seeing her penis as feminine, floral, and womanly. I think this is right hard for most of us, though, it's not an understanding we've been given as kids and it's an understanding most people around us will say is wrong wrong wrong.
then if we go against the common assumptions of society and view ourselves as female and enough of us do so then we could in fact change the position of what is acceptable and what is not? True?
Thanks :) to all who have posted on this topic! I find it
fascinating to read each post and to see that each of us
has their own perspective that contributes something
unique to the discussion.
It seems to me that for most of us, accepting ourselves
and being ourselves are more important than what we
call ourselves. And if we use a "label," it's mainly for the
sake of clarification of where we are at the present time
rather than adhering to some strict definition.
Of course when it comes down to debating the finer points
of matters generally referred to as transgender, it helps to
start with agreed-upon definitions where possible. But as
far as the question of when I should call myself this or that,
I doubt that we will ever all agree on objective standards,
but will just use terms that, for each of us, fit the way we
see ourselves. Vive la difference! Or as Mr. Spock
and other followers of Surak see the universe, "IDIC," or
"Infinite diversity in infinite combinations."
Thanks again,
:icon_chick: Sandra
Quote from: sandra on June 04, 2007, 09:14:15 PM
"Infinite diversity in infinite combinations."
Oooooooo!!! I like that! :icon_joy:
-Emerald :icon_mrgreen:
:laugh:Thanks, Emerald!
Sandra
Quote from: Renae Lupini on June 04, 2007, 09:05:21 PM
then if we go against the common assumptions of society and view ourselves as female and enough of us do so then we could in fact change the position of what is acceptable and what is not? True?
Theoretically, yes. However, we'd be trying to change something that is already rather well established into something almost diametrically opposed, so it would take a lot of time and effort. Essentially, our doing it would not be enough; the major issue would be to get enough people to go along.
A lot of the LGBT awareness campaigning can be considered as related to this sort of an effort, by the way, and it is entirely possible that a change like this will eventually happen. This, I believe, is a big part of why we scare the various fundamentalist groups so much.
Nfr
I tried to ignore it for awhile but I knew I could never live as a women. When I first heard of the term FTM I knew it was me. For now If I had to label my gender it would be male..I don't like thinking of myself as trans, just a normal guy. Post surgery/hormones I won't have that nagging thing anymore saying..'but you're not a full male'..
As a pre op trans girl, I feel that I am worthless every time a man stopped talking to me because I told him about me.
Every time I have an orgasm, I feel bad afterward.
I don't know if I am on an continuum, and I don't know if society will ever accept someone who doesn't have surgeries to be who they are, but I just know right now, it feels like crap to be in between.
Quote from: asiangurliee on June 07, 2007, 11:45:21 PM
As a pre op trans girl, I feel that I am worthless every time a man stopped talking to me because I told him about me.
Every time I have an orgasm, I feel bad afterward.
I don't know if I am on an continuum, and I don't know if society will ever accept someone who doesn't have surgeries to be who they are, but I just know right now, it feels like crap to be in between.
Asiangurliee,
Personally, I am not able to answer your specific comments from my own
experience, although I certainly know how true it is that "it feels like crap to
be in between." I would just urge you to keep posting and to give serious
consideration to gender counseling!
With care and concern,
:icon_chick: Sandra
Thank you, that's very kind of you.
I would never go back to being a guy, even though this is hard...
I usually just say trans or transgendered, because all of the other labels give away too much information. And I like the queer label for my orientation for a lot the same reason. I also don't like the emphasis on sex that the word transsexual has. For some reason that bugs me. I feel like I'm automatically steering someone's mind into an incorrect assumption.
Quote from: SarahFaceDoom on June 12, 2007, 08:48:22 AM
I usually just say trans or transgendered, because all of the other labels give away too much information. And I like the queer label for my orientation for a lot the same reason. I also don't like the emphasis on sex that the word transsexual has. For some reason that bugs me. I feel like I'm automatically steering someone's mind into an incorrect assumption.
Sarah,
Being closer to the CD end of the spectrum, I didn't at first understand why many who were referred to in the past as TS started referring to themselves as "transgenders." But the more I have read about this, the more I see what you are saying about not liking "the emphasis on sex that the word transsexual has." And if it carries that emphasis within the community of those of us who cross gender lines, how much more might it do so among the less informed/educated among the general public?
Now when I refer to myself as transgendered, I try to make it clear that I am using the word in the umbrella sense.
Thank you,
:icon_chick: Sandra
IMO, we all use whatever label we feel that we belong to. Personally, I have no problem stating that I am a transsexual. While others may feel that they prefer other labels to describe the same thing, it is all about our own perspective of ourselves. :)
I am on the far TG end of the spectrum. I have lived as a woman (in private) for 28 yrs. The last 2 since retirement I have lived full time as a woman.
I consider myself as a woman with a mans genitals and when I am finally able to have the SRS. I will consider my self a Woman, not a TG.
Bobbi