I don't know whether this Is a very common thing In the trans community since I tend to stray away from my own kind but lately I've been getting denied of actually being male and get people saying. "No trust me, You're Androgynous. You're a genderqueer, You're not boyish enough". ???
Like I'm sorry to rant but what exactly determines being "Boy enough", There are plenty of different boys, Feminine, Masculine and everything In between. Besides, Who wants to be "Trans enough" we aren't living as a label, We're men. :laugh:
So now I'm wondering, How common are feminine transmen? Is anyone here femme or more femme than average?
Does anyone get told they're "not trans enough" ?
Not here on Susan's Place. Hugs, Devlyn
I wonder if there's someone doesn't get told they're not trans enough :D My mom and dad never asked this question cause they know me well enough to know that I am. But there are people in my family who tried this trick.
I consider myself to be fairly feminine, but I have been holding off on expressing myself femininely until my voice deepens and I get some noticeable facial hair. I have some really feminine interests and things that I like, such as shopping (I absolutely adore shopping, especially for suits and semi-formal wear), doing other people's make up, and I am very anal about smelling good. For me, I am more concerned with passing as a biological male than conforming to male norms. I don't know if you are the same way, but this has caused some people to insult my masculinity and tell me that I should act more like a guy.
I would never fit In as a stereotypical male, I don't think at least.
I am actually the same way about smell, People tell me I always smell like a girl so I get very freaked out about how I smell.
I'm sure people would tell me to act more like a guy but honestly, I'm me. If me Isn't good enough then they're not good enough to be my friend.
Quote from: BlackBird on May 13, 2013, 06:27:32 AM
I am actually the same way about smell, People tell me I always smell like a girl so I get very freaked out about how I smell.
My dad is of the opinion that I go through an inhuman amount of axe :P
Haha! I love "Axe" (Here In Australia we call It Lynx) -- My favorite Is Africa and I have to get a spray every 2-3 weeks, I can't smell deodorant on myself so I tend to use a lot more than I should and I still can't smell It.
Have you seen KingGutterFace's vids on YouTube? He's not to everybody's taste, but one of my favourite vids of his is the one in which he discusses this very subject.
Warning: bad language:
"but you dont act like a man" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PoP0Uz7Msg#)
Like he says, "You are simply too fabulous to not be who you are" :)
@FTMDiaries: I was actually watching KingGutterFace earlier today. He's fantastic In his videos. He's completely right about everything he stands for.
Unfortunately this subject does happen quite a lot where I am, There's not a big.. support on trans* people. Australia Is quite rough when It comes to all that, At least not where I am.
Lmao at the "Too Fabulous" -- I totally agree!
Well yeah, in my country theres 2 sides of this, theres the goverment who dosen't want to help people if they arn't "trans enough". (ex if they think your too femenine or masuline or whatever they think, they might refuse you help) So alot of people have to lie or pretend to be more steryotypical than they actually are.
another side of the topic is everyday life in and outside the trans comunety, theres general ignorant who dosen't understand much of the trans*topic but also in the trans comunety theres both great acceptence at the diffrence and ignorance for those who arn't typical will harm other transexuals for not being taken serious.
So some trans people are in for better rights for transexuals but not for anyone who isn't binary of any kinds.
I personally won't prefern the word femme but I guess in a way I am,
I just try not to put on genderlabels too much on how I should act or dress or whatever im femenine or masculine, and insteed I try to do what I want, no matter if this is typical male or female.
I am still accepted as male yet I do get comments somethimes not to be "trans enough" and that my image could give a bad view for transgenders who is more binary.
Well yeah, in my country theres 2 sides of this, theres the goverment who dosen't want to help people if they arn't "trans enough". (ex if they think your too femenine or masuline or whatever they think, they might refuse you help) So alot of people have to lie or pretend to be more steryotypical than they actually are.
another side of the topic is everyday life in and outside the trans comunety, theres general ignorant who dosen't understand much of the trans*topic but also in the trans comunety theres both great acceptence at the diffrence and ignorance for those who arn't typical will harm other transexuals for not being taken serious.
So some trans people are in for better rights for transexuals but not for anyone who isn't binary of any kinds.
I personally won't prefern the word femme but I guess in a way im viewed that way as a man the same way I where vied masculine when I where seen as a girl.
I just try not to put on genderlabels too much on how I should act or dress or whatever im femenine or masculine, and insteed I try to do what I want, no matter if this is typical male or female.
I am still accepted as male yet I do get comments somethimes not to be "trans enough" and that my image could give a bad view for transgenders who is more binary
nope... can't say that I have.
I've been called not trans enough for various reasons through my transition. First I was told I wasn't trans enough because I didn't feel ready for hormones. Then it was because I was fat. Another thing was because I didn't want top surgery. Being comfortable with penetration was another thing used against me. People will use the strangest reasons to tell you why you're not who you are.
Wow, Even for being overweight? I don't even understand that logic AT ALL. ???
People come In all different varieties, Whether you.. Don't want surgery, Do want surgery, Like penetration, Don't like It, Etc. That does not stop us from being us. That's what MAKES us.
Their reasons for me Is because I refuse to cut my hair, I like my hair, It's a security blanket for me although It heavily alters my passing. :-\
Also things like.. I don't want hormones but that's only for some personal things like body hair, Etc.
At the end of the day, Only we can decide what and who we are and anyone who disagrees can find someone who Isn't us. :laugh:
When I was still questioning and considered myself genderfluid, a couple people who posted in a thread in the androgyne section were rather dismissive of non-binary people in general because they seemed to be under the impression that it was a choice.
It seems related enough to note that I've often wondered if returning to school to finish my degree, being in a program where I spent a lot of time with, and formed close bonds with a lot of not-stereotypically macho guys, was what finally gave me "permission" to come out...as if my whole perception of what it meant (to be allowed) to be male shifted.
Quote from: Nygeel on May 13, 2013, 10:34:20 AM
I've been called not trans enough for various reasons through my transition. First I was told I wasn't trans enough because I didn't feel ready for hormones. Then it was because I was fat. Another thing was because I didn't want top surgery. Being comfortable with penetration was another thing used against me. People will use the strangest reasons to tell you why you're not who you are.
most of the explanations seams familiar but how can you not be trans for being owerweight???
@Nat: I've been wondering the same thing all morning. Those bullies don't make sense, I think they just spit out whatever they can think of at the time.
I definitely have. One incident I remember was when I was told that I shouldn't take T because I'm non-binary. Only in much nastier words.
Nope, I'm on the opposite end where I do alright in the cis world but other transguys usually think I'm "too stereotypically male". Seriously, I've had feminine guys say that to me online. Crap gets slung both ways.
No one knows yet about me being trans (my girl and sis do) but I'm sure I will get some of this.
I can fit with my cis-male friends because I'm well masculine, but my best friend is a white girl back home who I talk almost fem. or andro. with, I kind of naturally separate the worlds.
I go neutral with mixed friends/ groups. I am very masculine in reality and she (my best friend) knows my boy ways and thinks those parts of me are funny and shes like your such a guy sometimes (I'm scared to tell her I will this summer though I promised myself that.) I like hanging with my girls though and feeling like the guy who they can be natural and feminine or whatever around, I'd rather still hang with straight women, yet around guys there is no fem. coming out unless, like I said in a mixed group. I'm very open and I think men are attractive and women attractive, but I'm a straight male. Not being trans enough, or man enough is often thrown around but I think its bull. I think my mom will try this when I come out to her, kind of like when I came out as "lesbian" and I was so masculine, but hey be you I will be.
Quote from: Edge on May 13, 2013, 11:44:36 AM
When I was still questioning and considered myself genderfluid, a couple people who posted in a thread in the androgyne section were rather dismissive of non-binary people in general because they seemed to be under the impression that it was a choice.
Being a long time member of the androgyne forest i've seen my share of this, and of being flatly dismissed/ignored in other forums on the board. Thankfully that seems to have gotten less worse in the last couple of years.
From the other side it's happened to me because I'm tall,have a growly voice,like muscle cars and classic cars and bikes and metal/rock music and shoot pool.
@Kim: Aw, I'm sorry to hear that. I can Imagine you being one of those really cool chicks that like cars and pool. :) I don't see that making you manly at all, You're just what I call a "rock" type girl. :)
Be yourself. <3
Thanks it's never bothered me,I'm OK being myself and that's what counts
@Kim: Good on you! That's the way to be!
"Not trans enough" doesn't even make sense. You either are or you aren't, right? And if you are, then you're trans just like anyone else who is. It doesn't matter if you're super masculine or feminine or don't want surgery or whatever else.
It's ridiculous that people could pass such a label onto someone, but I would come to expect it.
Although I'm very masculine and always have been, I've also always had very feminine traits to my personality as well. I LOVED Hot Wheels when I was little. But now as an adult I collect dolls (I don't care, Monster High dolls are sexy!) I can expect to be told the same thing about not being "trans enough" once I start on T, but I don't care.
Once I transition, not much will change. I'll still wear women's clothes and dresses (heck, probably more than I do now!), I'll still like my zebra/pink cheetah print comforter, and I'll still cosplay girl characters. ;) Because I'm not changing who I am, just my outward appearance. I'm still the same person I've always been and refuse to conform just because other people want me to. I'm ok being a snowflake in a hailstorm.
I'm not out either, but yeah, some moments I did feel that way, yes. Just because I don't 'fit' in some typical trans or male stereotypes.
Sometimes I felt like I HAD to be a generic cisguy, or a generic transguy, in order to be 'valid', which is total BS of course. I am who I am, and that person appears to be a guy, regardless of my body or 'mental programming', etc.
No, I never tried to kill myself, nor did or do I have crippling dysphoria (but then again, I'm really not girly. I think my body is more or less androgynous), but when I set aside all problems, fears, doubts, difficulties, etc. of being trans and then ask myself whether I feel like a man, and would want to be one physically, the answer is a radiating "YES!".
You know how transpeople are often described to cispeople as 'being trapped in the wrong body', and to a certain extent that's true. But it's oversimplified! I WISH I was a dude zapped into a girls body, frankly! 'cause then I knew for SURE what I was, I wouldn't have any doubts at all, etc. while now I go through periods of thinking I'm totally, utterly, NUTS. That I'm making life harder than it has to be, and am fussing about nothing, that I must be crazy for thinking and wanting this, etc.
For me, and I think many other transpeople too, the difficulty of changing your body is actually rather small to changing your mental programming or other kind of sh*t I can't really put under words.
i don't think i'm trans enough to feel comfortable living the entire rest of my life stuck in only one gender (presentation), and since that definitely isn't trans enough for the authorities on trans maters in this country, i haven't really gotten any way with anything yet. especially not with coming out to people. but what i often hear is that i don't dress girly enough, i don't act or talk or walk girly enough. and my interests probably also aren't girly enough. would be funny to hear those people's comments if i suddenly decided to go full out ts (which i won't, but let's imagine...), they'd probably suddenly think i'm too girly for it.
but people online that i've come out to are generally really nice. i'm glad natkat was the first one i tried that with, at a different forum. his response was great (no wonder why...) i've also had a probably non-binary guy feel guilty for liking my female body, just as well as people refusing to see anything other than the almost nonexistent girl in me.
Quote from: Simon on May 13, 2013, 10:03:47 PM
Nope, I'm on the opposite end where I do alright in the cis world but other transguys usually think I'm "too stereotypically male". Seriously, I've had feminine guys say that to me online. Crap gets slung both ways.
this one made me laugh. i've often been called male chauvinist or insults typically directed at those kinds of people online. and i don't even know if it was the girl or guy in me doing the typing that got those responses. i also remember once at some gay forum where i was out as biologically female, some guy threatened to title me the resident man if some of the other guys didn't stop acting like such drama queens.
anyway, "not trans enough"?
try telling a (cis) man that he's too girly to not be trans. i'm pretty sure there are more cis than trans among the femme guys in this world.
I've never had other trans people tell me that, most of them have been transphobic family members who wouldn't want me to transition no matter what. So let's say, if I was the most manly gender-conforming man ever, they'd say "that means you're not actually transgender you're just a butch woman who doesn't fit in."
But I was worried others wouldn't see me as "trans enough" (as someone else says, that doesn't make sense, you either are or are not) for certain things...but decided it didn't matter. I went in to the gender therapist and psychiatrists and just told them exactly how I felt, flat out, knowing that my own certainty would speak for itself. Though no one ever questioned me I came to understand you've got to be honest and be your own advocate, whether it's with therapists or with others.
@Erin: You are so right, You and I are very similar In that way. My body, If you cut off my head you would say I was born Male. -- Growing up, As funny as It Is, I got told I wasn't girly enough and that I acted too much like a boy, Because I wasn't out back then. No one knew. Then the minute I came out, I now have people tell me I'm too girly to be a boy.
Everyone comes In all different shapes, sizes and flavors. Manly, Girly, Androgynous, Other, Anything. That doesn't define us. Neither does what's between our legs. It's what we feel, our lifestyle, how we live and most Importantly, Who we are.
@Taka: I find people like you very Interesting, I would love to know how It feels to be gender fluid. Also, Yes there are PLENTY more cis male fems than there are trans male fems.
@Prof HB: Unfortunately, I've heard It from family, friends, strangers and even other trans members. The term "trans enough" makes no sense to me either but I can understand the basic meaning behind It. In the trans community, We need to learn that It's OKAY to be different from the stereotypes. It's because cis people are our role models and when we aren't like them, We're "not trans enough" - I say **** that.
I'm a non-binary trans girl...I like video games horror movies, and...well...cigars rofl. When Im full time I don't really plan on wearing really girly clothing, just average girl clothing that looks a bit punk/goth/rocker. I looooove androgynous/masculine over shirts...I just can't wear them until I have boobs...
I was mostly androgynous as a kid, didn't start to fantasize about being a girl until I was around 12. Didn't know I was trans until August last year. I was never outwardly girly, more so inwardly. Never cross dressed until last month...which was awesome! For me, being trans is an inner experience, not something objective to be analyzed and debated.
I have an ftm friend who wants to present as feminine when he gets on T after awhile. He's also a crossdresser...which totally breaks the norms.
All in all...I've never been called "not trans enough", but at some point I anticipate that someone will say something to that effect.
I don't know if this is interesting/helps...but there ya go.
(Slinks away from ftm section awkwardly, didnt mean to intrude lol)
-Skye
@Skye-Blue: Noooo, Darling come back! MTF's are welcome here too! We love you <3
I too, Believe that It's something we decide. I originally created this thread so that people can share their experiences like you just did. :) That's what I wanted!
(Sorry If I don't sound very happy or exciting at the moment, I've just had an emotional breakdown over my father. I'm trying to cope.)
Anyway, Yes, I was always kind of Androgynous as well. I nearly was openly manly because I was afraid of how people reacted so.. I forced myself Into wearing make up and dresses. That lasted about 3 days before I had to stop.
When I got Into a relationship with someone, Around the age of.. 12 or 13. I finally thought I could be myself because someone loved me for me, However, I wasn't out about being Trans to too many people.
This boy started asking me to wear.. Open tops and make up and.. To wear my hair all pretty. I didn't want to but I did It for him. When I had to stop, Due to It mentally breaking me, He said If I didn't do what he asked, Him and my now ex-best friend would blackmail me all over town.
So, For the next 4 months, I did what he said until he ended up cheating on me with that ex-best friend. That's when I learnt to be myself, After being forced Into being something else, I broke free.
I came out to my best friends and I started taking on male pronouns, I started signing up as "Male" on games and then a few years later I came out to my mom and dad.
Now I'm me, Whether I'm stereotypically trans or not. I'm me and that's what makes me happy.
Lord no... not trans enough, being trans, being too trans, being too feminine, not feminine enough, not masculine enough, too manly, being real, being fake...
What is wrong with people that they need some sort of standard or yard stick to measure themselves or other people by? Is being yourself and individual too scary for you? Do other people being themselves keep you worried and awake at night?
I recommend getting out and about more and introducing more roughage in your diet.
I've never been told this but if I ever was I'd just laugh and think 'sheep'.
I know who I am, I know who I'm not, and while I understand everyone has a right to their opinion the subject is closed and who I am and what I'm about is beyond discussion.
@Stella: It Is funny Isn't It, It's comparable to the whole "Too fat, Too skinny, Too dumb, Too smart" thing, Just more ridiculous.
I've noticed that It seems the adult trans* members haven't experienced this as much as the young have. Kids these days.. What Is the world coming to, Eh?
I haven't specifically been called not trans enough, but since I don't mind penetrative sex since my plumbing works and the other orifice hurts too much to use with my current partner I imagine it's coming. I've mostly just been told I'm not a real man because I wasn't born with a cis penis or due to sex assigned at birth.
Never told anyone that-- would never tell anyone that. Have never been told that either. In the support group I go to it would never be tolerated but I haven't heard anyone say it either. I have do videos on youtube and no one says anything to me there like that. I am not really binary either.
--Jay
I can see myself running into this the future. I really like girly-girl things but I also swear and make your mom jokes a lot.
Well, I haven't been told I'm not trans enough in those words, and not by anyone in the trans community that I know of... but my sister keeps saying "you can't be a guy because of _____" whether that be the fact I was born with a vagina or the way I reacted to some kid puking everywhere. I'm sure other people have their opinions of me, but fortunately they've kept them to themselves... or at least away from me.
I haven't, but I'm very private about my gender on most circles. I suspect some of the people I know will jokingly go about the whole "but you're not that masculine" routine when I talk to them about pronouns and my chosen name, though.
I'm only anticipating a bit of general ignorance coated in good intentions, though.
Yes, i have been told i wasn't trans-enough a few times, here on susans too. And this is not about the way i look, this is about my attitude. I guess it's cos i am not on T (yet), i haven't had any surgeries (yet) and i am not really sure if i want to do any of that. I am still thinking about it. This is not a game, it's a serious decision which will change my life forever! Yet, some people think that if i am a ''real'' FTM i must be on T, i must have surgeries, etc.
Yes, most of the time i look androgynous and i must say i like it. Yes, i want to be a man 24/7 but i like being androgynous too. Why? Because i HATE being a woman, i HATE looking like a woman, i HATE all that stuff. So being androgynous means i don't have to be a woman - the thing i hate the most in the world.
And yes, i can be a bit feminine at times. This is because i am gay. I like guys. And you know what gay guys are like. Well, i am more masculine than the majority of gay guys but i still have a feminine side to me. :)
I feel like I got introduced to this FTM transition too late in the game. I've always felt wrong or trapped in this body. I am 100% gay. I think and act like a male. I dress like a male. I hate my chest and all that comes with being a female. If I could go back in time and change myself I would. I have an amazing girlfriend of 6 years who I hope to someday soon make my wife. She is 100% lesbian and loves me for who I am. We've had discussions regarding the gender process but she absolutely hates the thought of changing who I am. I feel so trapped but as long as I have her that's all that matters. I been doing some research and have been exploring FTM prostetics but it seems as if I am searchin for the impossible. Is there anyone that can help me?
The unknown
Sorry, but i just don't get it... How come you are "100% gay" if you are FTM and you like girls?.. This makes you a straight guy but not a lesbian...
I just got introduced to the FTM process I feel that it is too late to act on it even tho I feel trapped. I haven't proceeded with any FTM steps. There for to others I'm just a "dyke" in a lesbian relationship. Wish I could have the life I want.
The unknown
If you don't mind me asking, how old are you? I am 29 and sometimes i feel like i am too old for this process. But then i see 65 years old FTM guys and i feel that maybe it's not too late for me too. :)
Lets be careful before asking new members to reveal their age.
Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on July 10, 2009, 06:12:01 PM
Minors are discouraged from posting their ages on the public forums and any posts referencing the age of a minor user (under 18) will be edited out. This goes for personal profiles as well.
Please take this into consideration when asking someone's age.
Thank you.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,62197.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,62197.0.html)
Thanks, hugs, Devlyn
Devlyn Marie
I highly doubt he is a minor cos he said he's had a girlfriend for 6 years. :)
If your living unhappy become happy. No matter the age. I'm young now at 21. If I hadn't discovered the term for myself and that I can achieve what I want until 70 I'd still go for it. I wish I could of discovered it before puberty was over as a kid and had the guts to speak rather than to hide it. Never too late to act though or too early.
Quote from: dean1229 on June 07, 2013, 02:42:50 PM
Devlyn Marie
I highly doubt he is a minor cos he said he's had a girlfriend for 6 years. :)
But you don't know it. The guidelines are there for a reason, please respect them. Hugs, Devlyn
Dark.Knight
That's what i think too - it's never too late or too early. I can remember myself being a 3-4 years old child and i kept on telling to my mother that i was actually a boy and not a girl. I used to drive her crazy! It was a very annoying thing for her cos every time when she called me a ''she'' or a ''girl'' i would say i was a ''he'' and a boy! This was impossible for me to pretend or play some sort of a game back then cos i was too young so it just proves the saying that ''you are never too young''.
And you are never too old too. Because many people are trying to hide who they really are because of things like their family, friends, job, etc. But in the end, it feels like they have never really lived their true lives. And they want to live their lives the way they always wanted to. This is a great decision to make! Everyone deserves to be the one they have always been on the inside! The real one.
Quote from: dean1229 on June 07, 2013, 02:04:59 PM
The unknown
Sorry, but i just don't get it... How come you are "100% gay" if you are FTM and you like girls?.. This makes you a straight guy but not a lesbian...
some people tend to use this interchangeably for some reason (although its incorrect). Even when I thought I was a stud who liked women I'd say I was gay. Then I realized it was because I hated the word lesbian and I felt straight not dyke/butch/stud/lesbian or masculine wo-men... I was a man and gay fit better I guess you could say, it identified as male so I'd say gay. Now I know all along me feeling straight was because I am. I find men "attractive" not sexual though so I can't say I'm bi nor do I think the attraction could go that far. So to the guy who said it originally, your straight dude.
Devlyn Marie
Ok girl, i am sorry! I will respect the rules from now on. :)
Quote from: dean1229 on June 07, 2013, 02:58:21 PM
Dark.Knight
That's what i think too - it's never too late or too early. I can remember myself being a 3-4 years old child and i kept on telling to my mother that i was actually a boy and not a girl. I used to drive her crazy! It was a very annoying thing for her cos every time when she called me a ''she'' or a ''girl'' i would say i was a ''he'' and a boy! This was impossible for me to pretend or play some sort of a game back then cos i was too young so it just proves the saying that ''you are never too young''.
And you are never too old too. Because many people are trying to hide who they really are because of things like their family, friends, job, etc. But in the end, it feels like they have never really lived their true lives. And they want to live their lives the way they always wanted to. This is a great decision to make! Everyone deserves to be the one they have always been on the inside! The real one.
Yes I 100% agree. I'm living untrue to my family and my friends back home but I am working on that now. Its worth it more to be myself than feel pieces of me die when I'm called she or my mom saying one day you"ll get my fashion taste and start carrying purses...no! It just becomes way more clear how bad I want this
Dark.Knight
Yes, that's what i was saying too. He is not a lesbian, he is a straight guy. I am not saying that being a lesbian is bad, i am just saying that we gotta use the right terminology here. Oh, i kind of wish i was a straight guy... But i am gay. And just to clarify, by saying i am gay i mean that i am into guys! I have never been attracted to girls. No way. That's why i can be a little bit one the feminine side sometimes and sometimes i can wear some make-up or clothes that are a little bit on the feminine side. That's cos i am gay. And gay guys are a bit feminine, everyone knows that. But still, i am FTM and i have always been one, ever since i can remember myself.
Dark.Knight
Purses?? :o ??? >:( This is disgusting!!! I have never had a purse and i don't wanna get one. Cos they are for girls and women and i am neither of those. I really hate it how our mothers think that we will finally grow up one day and become real women! Why can;t they understand that we have never been girls so we can't become women too??? i have never been a girl and my mother knows it. But she still has a small hope i will be a ''real woman'' one day! No thanks mum, i will rather be a real man!!!!!!!
Sorry for the delay in response. I'm 22 years old with a career that deals with the public daily. I just feel that it's too late in the game for me to transition unless I was to move or something. Probably would still have issues with family tho
OK, Dean, you're off the hook now! Hugs, Devlyn
I have no other Trans friends or people who know much about being Trans around me, but I do have one Genderqueer friend who went once through a phase of thinking she's FTM and she told me that my feminine side is too strong for me to be Trans.
The way I see it is: I have some feminine traits that are mixed with the masculine ones but that's just how I am and I still see myself and feel like a man, even when tears come down while watching emotional movies or when my kids are visiting and my maternal instincts kick in!
Quote from: dean1229 on June 07, 2013, 02:29:39 PM
The unknown
If you don't mind me asking, how old are you? I am 29 and sometimes i feel like i am too old for this process. But then i see 65 years old FTM guys and i feel that maybe it's not too late for me too. :)
You're not too old. We have a group for trans guys over 40 on FB. I'm doing update videos. If you're interested message me. Also there is a collab channel (which I'm on) for guys over 30 called "It's a Man's World FTM 1". You're too young for it :) but the videos still apply as I think most of the topics aren't age related.
I'm not revealing my age because Devlyn might get ticked with me. Wouldn't want that. :)
--Jay
Quote from: The unknown on June 07, 2013, 07:31:32 PM
Sorry for the delay in response. I'm 22 years old with a career that deals with the public daily. I just feel that it's too late in the game for me to transition unless I was to move or something. Probably would still have issues with family tho
Late teens/early 20's is probably the average age of transguys who transition. I think a lot of us move from where we lived pre transition and especially so if it's a small town where everybody knows you (that was the case for me).
If you need to transition you'll know it. I know some here probably frown on my view about this but I see medical transition as a last resort. I always tell people if there is any possible way you can live comfortably and accept yourself as you are now then don't start medical transition.
Why? Well, why would someone complicate their lives and in most cases be willing to turn it upside down if they could find another way? I only speak for myself, but for me it was transition or die.
I'm not just saying this to you but I think a lot of young people see the more "glamorous" (for lack of a better word) side of transition. They look at these feminine looking kids who within a year or two are handsome men with facial hair and muscles. What most don't see is the depression, the tears, the family issues, the financial struggles, job issues, fear of going in public, etc that generally goes with early transition.
I know, I know...I am the wet blanket but I'm also a realist. Explore your feelings but never feel rushed into this because of some age you have set in your mind that is a deadline. If it's supposed to be, it'll be.
Quote from: The unknown on June 07, 2013, 07:31:32 PM
Sorry for the delay in response. I'm 22 years old with a career that deals with the public daily. I just feel that it's too late in the game for me to transition unless I was to move or something. Probably would still have issues with family tho
22 isn't old. If transition is what you really want, it's not too late at all, you have probably 75% of your life ahead of you. That's a substantial chunk that's worth living as happily as possible.
You have to decide what's more important to you. I couldn't live without transitioning. I put it off for a year, searching for other ways to deal but it wasn't possible for me. I realized it was worth any sacrifice I'd have to make. I'd be happier being alone forever, working a minimum wage job as a dude, than having a successful career and in a great relationship as a "woman". So personally that's what I had to do but not everyone is like that. Some find better ways to deal with dysphoria. Some value things like careers and relationships more than others. No one can make that choice for you. But if you're 100% with your feelings and the only thing holding you back is feeling it's too late... it's not.
Quote from: The unknown on June 07, 2013, 07:31:32 PM
Sorry for the delay in response. I'm 22 years old with a career that deals with the public daily. I just feel that it's too late in the game for me to transition unless I was to move or something. Probably would still have issues with family tho
I'm 41, well-established in my career and well-known within my industry. I'm also married and have two teenage children.
I'm transitioning now in front of all of those people because Gender Dysphoria doesn't simply evaporate if you ignore it; it gets worse with time. I should've transitioned at 19 when I first realised I was transsexual, but I went into denial for 21 years instead. And no, my GD didn't disappear like I hoped it would; it just got steadily worse over the years until I could no longer hide it.
So if it isn't too late for me (and the other people at Susan's who are transitioning later in life; some are even in their 70s), it's definitely
not too late for you.
Pre-transition I hid a lot of who I was trying to conform to gender roles. I was a tomboy and did a lot of atypical things for a girl, but I tried so hard to fit into that girl box that there were a whole lot of things I liked and wanted to try that I shied away from. And when I got married tried very hard to fit into that role and I did expect my husband to do a lot of the typical husband things. And when he didn't/wouldn't do them I got totally frustrated and while yes I could do them myself, I was upset because he wasn't doing his job, and I didn't have time or energy to do my job plus his job (we had kids and a house etc). So yeah, my family didn't think I was trans enough because I threw myself into stereotypical female things, trying very hard to be a good 'girl.' In the end, I was miserable and felt like a total failure at life. It just took me a while to figure out why.
And while I would definitely encourage people to think hard and think twice about transition, once you know it is right for you, don't let the naysayers into your head. It's YOUR life.
Jay
^Ditto. Right down to getting married & having kids, partially as a way of trying to figure out how to be happy being a 'woman'.
I'm hugely worried that everyone would just assume I'm making up stories or looking for attention or anything else, whichever derogative way they want to go.
I like a lot of "non stereotypical" activities like baking and art and I absolutely hate sport and when you're already trying to pass, drawing attention to how you're "not male" stands out even more than usual.
I reckon if you identify as trans, then you're trans. If you identify with a gender, both genders, or no gender, then that's what you are. But it's not really a view most of society shares.
Quote from: girl you look fierce on June 08, 2013, 07:43:43 AM
on the rare occasion I see a femme, happy male not giving a sh** about what anyone thinks, wearing makeup, crazy wigs, whatever fashion he wants, anything, I feel like why couldn't I have just been that? What's the big deal? And I almost hate myself because it's like I transitioned just because it was easier.
I don't think I would ever detransition it just sucks feeling on a fence between two forms of dissatisfaction.
Such great honesty in your post. I think there are a lot more people that detransition or have doubts during/after transition than most are aware. I personally knew one guy and it's probably why I am as passionate about the subject as I am. I watched that kid lose everything when he wasn't accepted, he later detransitioned, and then it was like, he suffered for what?
I just wish people would stop worrying so much about what others think. Transition is personal and for nobody but yourself. Vanity is also a wrong reason, "I'm a ugly girl/guy but I might make a better looking guy/girl". No, more than likely if you're ugly now you're going to be ugly later and that's ok. It's ok to be ugly...I'm ugly and ok with it, lol.
This stuff is just disheartening to see happening. I think a lot of the time people who have doubts or detransition are labeled "Transtrenders" by transfolks when the fact is they are just people who were looking for a better life. It wasn't right for them.
Anyways, before I keep rambling, here is a video I came across that is of a guy who was on T for years and is now is lost emotionally because he didn't take the time to really think it through as you can see in the video.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_jX3e20rfI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_jX3e20rfI#)
The thing is, even if you think it over for years and find yourself finally ready, that still may not even be enough.
People change. You make the best decision for yourself in the moment. That's all you can do.
I've seen videos of guys who go through the same process as the person in the video Simon posted, go off hormones - and then change their minds all over again another year later and restart it.
We're not consistent creatures, and we can't even anticipate ourselves. It is rough.
I'm getting really sick of my mom trying to say that I'm not trans enough.
Girl you look fierce - that's interesting, yes I massively relate to the social dysphoria point you made and I was that person who walked around make up, girls clothes, accessories, but as a boy. It's not the same it really isn't. It kept me from doing more for longer than I should. You should be grateful you didn't fall into that trap! :-)
I am constantly being called a ma'am at work by customers because of the silly feminine antics that I tend to have. My coworkers seem to think it's cute that I occasionally do thing's they would do (I'm the only guy working there) because I have an adaptive personality that picks up everything everyone does around me, lol.
So I get this everyday, just in a different context each time. XD
A friend of mine once was all 'Oh, well I'm trying to teach you to be more like a man!' and all that crap after a fight we had over something I can't remember. I laughed at him and smiled the 'This is how many craps I give!' smile, only with stronger words, lol.
I recently came out on Facebook too in a long winded note and this was one of the sections I brought up. I went off on how much I really didn't care how I acted and got a lot of interesting responses to it. :D
Quote from: aleon515 on June 08, 2013, 01:39:56 AM
You're not too old. We have a group for trans guys over 40 on FB. I'm doing update videos. If you're interested message me. Also there is a collab channel (which I'm on) for guys over 30 called "It's a Man's World FTM 1". You're too young for it :) but the videos still apply as I think most of the topics aren't age related.
I'm not revealing my age because Devlyn might get ticked with me. Wouldn't want that. :)
--Jay
I want to change I absolutely hate the cards I have been dealt. It's so frustrating and not easily understandable as to why I am this way on the outside but feel the complete opposite on the inside. This is a small town where everybody knows everybody. just being openly gay is like worse than death around here so you can only imagine being FTM. I'm an outsider to the straight society and the gay community, trapped alone in the FTM world.
Quote from: The unknown on June 09, 2013, 09:55:31 AM
I want to change I absolutely hate the cards I have been dealt. It's so frustrating and not easily understandable as to why I am this way on the outside but feel the complete opposite on the inside. This is a small town where everybody knows everybody. just being openly gay is like worse than death around here so you can only imagine being FTM. I'm an outsider to the straight society and the gay community, trapped alone in the FTM world.
I'm sorry things are so difficult for you, but I want to remind you it isn't your age. I have heard people say that age makes it a bit *easier*. You have perspective that younger folks don't. So hang in there buddy.
--Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on June 09, 2013, 11:58:02 PM
I'm sorry things are so difficult for you, but I want to remind you it isn't your age. I have heard people say that age makes it a bit *easier*. You have perspective that younger folks don't. So hang in there buddy.
--Jay
Thank u. You have really helped alot. Guess I need to figure some things out n what steps to take
I think it might happen to a lot of people who are just coming out. Many people who you come out to have that initial knee jerk reaction. "What!? Nooooo... How is this possible? You're so ____." You know what I mean?
Quote from: Gene24 on June 11, 2013, 09:39:20 AM
I think it might happen to a lot of people who are just coming out. Many people who you come out to have that initial knee jerk reaction. "What!? Nooooo... How is this possible? You're so ____." You know what I mean?
Well I pass maybe 10% of the time. I don't get that reaction though. I think some people might unfortunately. There are people who just have always looked male and some of us do not.
--Jay
In a way I have been told. I can't say it's so much by society but to myself. I have a lot of inner turmoil that I'm constantly trying to overcome. The reason? I love my breasts but hate having a vagina. I've told myself over and over that being trans* is like being on a spectrum and for many, they don't completely hate the body they were born with. However, I'm quite harsh on myself. I feel like I'm trying to have my cake and eat it too.
In short, I want to look/be treated as a cis man without having to bring up my trans* status but at the same time, if I have any intentions of partially transitioning, I won't be able to be treated as cis. So I'm constantly telling myself I'm not trans* enough because I can't bring myself to be "completely" a man or a woman. I know, you guys will probably just tell me "it's ok, you can work through this" or "you don't have to choose" but it bothers me immensely.
TL;DR: I have not been told I'm not trans* enough by anyone except by myself.
No one has told me I'm not trans enough. I have had friends question my coming out because they're confused with the way I act, but I think they understand since I explained it was always about me trying to force myself into a role. I was self destructive for years because I was trying to be the woman I'm really not. They can see that now that I've come out and started working on my transition that I'm happier with myself and the world.
If someone who doesn't know me wanted to tell me I'm not trans enough I'd let it slide right off my back. In the past I've gotten butthurt when someone confronted me about how I'm not 'such and such a way' because I saw it as a failure on my part to conform to what I was trying to make myself into. Those exact thoughts didn't go through my head, but I did feel really terrible when my faults and shortcomings were pointed out. Now? I don't care. I'm still learning how to be the man I want to be and it might be awkward for someone in their late 20's to be as confused as a pre-teen boy but oh well. The end result is my happiness.
I get the "you dont look trans" alot.
I got that a lot, too, coming out to my friends at first. They were pretty shocked and a few were like... Are you sure?
The cool part is that when you "get there" and they see it, flipping their feelings around generates a great deal of gender euphoria.
So, my point is, there is always something to look forward to with those that may think you aren't "trans enough".
This is a very very interesting topic. I am asking this question a lot these days "Am i trans enough or not?" I am only talking to myself of course! :)
I insisted i was a boy ever since i could talk, i would drive my mother crazy because i wanted to dress like a boy, play with toys and with other boys. I was angry with my mother every time she called me by my real name and every time she called me a "she". This was what i really felt like - a boy.
But now, i am looking back i am kind of questioning all that. I have never wanted to have a penis. Of course there were times when i thought it would be great to have one but those were only thoughts, it wasn't like i felt something was missing down there. I have never had any dysphoria about my genitals. I just don't care about them. They are there and that's it. Whatever. However, I have a HUGE chest dysphoria. I can't even walk around without thinking about this! So i know i need a top surgery, i am 100% sure about it.
But the rest... T and the bottom surgery... I don't know. I am still thinking about it. I know it will bring a LOT of huge problems related to my social status, my documents, my job, my friends, my relatives, my neighbours (yes them too!) and finally my place in this world. If i was rich i could do whatever i wanted, i would definitely start T and have the bottom surgery and just go to live to some other country and tell everyone i was born a man. But i am not rich, i can't change my documents that easy, i can't leave my country forever, i can't just start from the beginning for social and financial reasons. Plus, there is a risk for your health too.
So it's a VERY hard decision to make. Do i really want to do this or can i SURVIVE (not LIVE but barely SURVIVE!) in my body too?! I have also had a LOT of psychological and mental problems like: depression, SEVERE OCD, panic disorder (with one exceptionally awful panic attack when they took me to the hospital), social anxiety and a general anxiety too. I have also suffered from Trichotillomania (hair-pulling disorder) since i was about 11 years old. It's ok now, i only do it like once a year now and before it used to be almost everyday. I have been suicidal since i was 13 years old and sometimes i am ok with my life but most of the time i am sad, angry or absolutely indifferent to everything.
So for a person like me, it's very hard to pursue their dreams to become someone they have always wanted to be. I am always asking myself "Is all this pain really worth it? I will die sooner or later so what's the point? i am not gonna live 150 years anyway so why would i want to do something about it?". And i feel like ->-bleeped-<-. But for some strange reason i am still here........
I've felt this way. I can get where people are coming from in that, if you hear from someone who has no interest in a full transition, they think that equals not trans. The reality is I've just found my own personalized ways to deal with the hand I was dealt. If people want to think I'm not trans enough because I don't want to transition like they do, whatever.