So I work for a popular wholesale company and today I was working the membership desk and had a couple of middle age Hispanic women come to the counter with a bunch of young girls who I assumed were daughters/friends.
One woman wanted to add the other to her membership. I turned to the other woman after pulling up their account and paused momentarily because being the comparative female I am when looking at faces I noticed a number of very subtle masculine traits especially a very pronounced brow. In my head I thought "OMG! She's one of us!" this being the first outside trans woman I'd ever encountered I played it cool like I had noticed anything.
I had to get her ID to set up her membership and she seemed hesitant when I asked for it. I figured that now I would find out for sure.
I looked at her ID and while the picture was of her the gender marker was male and it had a male name. I wanted to hug her and talk to her but I knew that would out us to the other customers around so I just kept playing it cool.
I used female pronouns probably to an excess even when an average person would say "here is your ID" I said "here is your ID ma'am" and when it came to her name I asked her what she wanted her first name to be.
Hopefully I made her day or at least made it smoother than she thought. I'm sure she wouldn't have gotten such a smooth treatment from anyone else who may have been confused as soon as they got the ID.
I noticed that even though she had some very masculine features, some of which put many of the worrisome girls on this site to shame, she carried herself fine and confidently and no other customers around paid her any extra attention and when I asked co-workers if they saw the other trans woman all of them said "who? where?"
It sort of just goes back to my old post on perceptions and how much our presentation and how we carry ourselves is more important
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,140134.msg1134782.html#msg1134782 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,140134.msg1134782.html#msg1134782)
Her features only got her clocked by someone who was looking for them. She presented herself as an average woman and therefore was not given a second glance or doubt from others.
I really want I give you a +1 for this (but I can't because I'm using the tapatalk 2 app :( ). I like interesting threads like this one. :)
I'll get around to giving you a +1 for this thread :)
I bet you made her day :)
Being TS really changes how you treat other people who are different (or LGBTQ).
Before I figured out I was Pansexual or trans I didn't know anything about the LGBTQ community...I was raised in the dark about all things gender and sexual orientation related. I didn't really even identify with other guys or girls my age...never crossed my mind once. I lived in gender limbo for most of my life. Like the other half of me was hiding beneath the surface...well that and a heck of a lot of rage.
Fast forward...and here I am today...I generally have the moral standpoint that "I don't violate your free will, and you don't violate mine; and we'll get along okay". I'm usually morally neutral, but I'm usually pretty kind to most people.
I have changed a lot over the years...
-Skye
Awesome!
Very nice 'Do unto others' bit there, MaidofOrleans. Have a cookie. :)
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Quote from: girl you look fierce on May 18, 2013, 07:28:27 PM
Well I think being too obvious is hurtful because you are letting them know they don't pass... When I had my first appt with my stylist I was still forced presenting basically male and she was kinda patronizing about it, like trying really hard to make me feel girly and it was like, I accept you, wink wink. Well it turned out okay because after seeing her a few more times presenting normally she seemed to have decided I was cis but still it stands out as one of the less pleasant memories of my transition.
Not being harsh just saying
Perhaps...but being "too obvious" is way better than "OMG YOU'RE A DUDE!!!"
True that, Beth! xD
Quote from: Beth Andrea on May 18, 2013, 07:32:59 PM
Perhaps...but being "too obvious" is way better than "OMG YOU'RE A DUDE!!!"
Alternatively...what normally would have happened was "Im sorry sir you don't match your identification, I can't process your application"...
The result... :(
This is of course assuming that the person working there doesn't know anything about trans* people.
There is a spectrum between being overly nice, and being ignorant...nothing is ever 100% black and white. :)
Thank you for pointing that out though Girl You Look Fierce...it adds a different perspective.
-Skye
It can be a toughy... Since starting to transition, and being overly aware and sensitive of appearance and gender related features, I've noticed many transwomen that I would not have a year ago. Most of whom pass without question. I've yet to interact with any other transwomen in a normal public setting, but I'd like to think I'd treat them the same as anyone else. That is, not doing or saying anything that would give them an inkling that I may realise they're trans. Certainly, I'd prefer that sort of treatment. I think most people just want to get on with their life.
It's also interesting watching reactions because it's kinda obvious to any other trans aware person that I'm transitioning. I've had a couple of different reactions so far. One transwoman on the train got up ( was sitting opposite me ), and moved to the other end of the train. She seemed really uncomfortable after noticing me. Another time, I received a long comforting and reassuring smile signalling from another woman.
Sorta makes you wonder if she noted you...? I mean, even when we're in guy mode, there may be signs that someone who notices would notice.
Quote from: ZoeM on May 18, 2013, 09:12:24 PM
Sorta makes you wonder if she noted you...? I mean, even when we're in guy mode, there may be signs that someone who notices would notice.
I know that after buying a new (used) car throughout my life, I notice how many of that type there seems to be in my area...never noticed before, but suddenly it seems *everyone* has a car like mine...
I'm sure i'll have plenty more stories to come for your enjoyment!
I liked this story! Thanks for sharing :)
I've been trying to identify possible trans people when I'm out and wandering around downtown, but I haven't picked out anybody yet. Probably because I get wrapped up in my thoughts and forget to analyze people...
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on May 18, 2013, 10:19:18 PM
I'm sure i'll have plenty more stories to come for your enjoyment!
Oh yeah, if you're in customer service...you
will. Muuwwwaaahhaha....
I've had a similar experience when I used to be a cashier. However, in my case, this person was looked like she was starting out and people in store noticed. She was wearing female clothes and had a pocketbook, but she still had boyish appearance, short hair, questionable voice, and her walk was overly animated. I honestly believe this was her first time out because she seemed incredibly nervous when she came up to be rung. However, I greeted her as female and did not show any sense that I noticed anything. I made small talk with her and acted like she was no different than any other female customer. All of a sudden, her whole attitude changed. I could see she was excited to feel like she was passing and she started to smile. It made me feel real happy because she went from looking really tense while in store to leaving with a huge confidence boast.
Unfortunately, this moment was ruined when my coworker looked over at me with a weird expression and said "jesus, lots of those weirdos nowadays". She was out of the store by then, but me the secretly closeted transwoman got to hear my coworkers bigotry towards people like us. It wasn't enough that she had people staring at her while shopping, they had to make a nasty remark behind her back.
I'm really glad you did that Maidoforleans. Even if you were overly animated, she probably didn't notice you detected it. Most likely she felt like she passed and felt very excited about it. Seriously, I'm betting it meant a lot to her.
Quote from: learningtolive on May 19, 2013, 12:01:28 AM
I've had a similar experience when I used to be a cashier. However, in my case, this person was looked like she was starting out and people in store noticed. She was wearing female clothes and had a pocketbook, but she still had boyish appearance, short hair, questionable voice, and her walk was overly animated. I honestly believe this was her first time out because she seemed incredibly nervous when she came up to be rung. However, I greeted her as female and did not show any sense that I noticed anything. I made small talk with her and acted like she was no different than any other female customer. All of a sudden, her whole attitude changed. I could see she was excited to feel like she was passing and she started to smile. It made me feel real happy because she went from looking really tense while in store to leaving with a huge confidence boast.
Unfortunately, this moment was ruined when my coworker looked over at me with a weird expression and said "jesus, lots of those weirdos nowadays". She was out of the store by then, but me the secretly closeted transwoman got to hear my coworkers bigotry towards people like us. It wasn't enough that she had people staring at her while shopping, they had to make a nasty remark behind her back.
I'm really glad you did that Maidoforleans. Even if you were overly animated, she probably didn't notice you detected it. Most likely she felt like she passed and felt very excited about it. Seriously, I'm betting it meant a lot to her.
Thanks for sharing!
I wouldn't worry about what people say behind others backs. Everyones got something to say about everyone else. More important is you probably made that girl a whole lot happier.
Quote from: ZoeM on May 18, 2013, 07:12:37 PM
Awesome!
Very nice 'Do unto others' bit there, MaidofOrleans. Have a cookie. :)
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OMG Zoe, that's not a cookie - that's a heart attack!
@MoO - you're great.
Nice story! But she didn't recognise you as a MTF?
Usually MTF recognise eachother, no matter how passable....call it a TS-dar..
Cool story. I've had several experiences where I've clocked someone but kept mum.
Too bad there isn't some kind of secret handshake or something.
Quote from: suzifrommd on May 19, 2013, 08:36:56 AM
Too bad there isn't some kind of secret handshake or something.
There is, didn't you get shown it in your induction pack?!
Quote from: RachelH on May 19, 2013, 12:26:04 PM
There is, didn't you get shown it in your induction pack?!
Yeah, it's the one where you don't shake hands 'cause that's manly and stuff, right? Where you curtsey instead?
Quote from: ZoeM on May 19, 2013, 12:36:30 PM
Yeah, it's the one where you don't shake hands 'cause that's manly and stuff, right? Where you curtsey instead?
You curtsy while shaking hands, because we're awkward like that ???
Quote from: kyh on May 19, 2013, 08:10:04 PM
You curtsy while shaking hands, because we're awkward like that ???
The odd thing is, that if you replace "curtsy" in that phrase with "slight bow of the head, dipping of one shoulder, and twist of the waist" (pretty much a slightly cutesy version of a twisted bow from the waist), then it's something I've pretty much done all of my life. In retrospect it makes sense I guess... :P
By the way, was it legal for you to put a name different from her legal name on the card? o:
Quote from: A on May 20, 2013, 01:20:51 PM
By the way, was it legal for you to put a name different from her legal name on the card? o:
It's a private company and membership. They pay for it, so I don't see why not.
Woulds reasonable.