Yeah, I thought that title would get some attention. lol This is my first post to this forum though I have posted in other forums on other boards. I will give you a brief background of my situation up to this point.
I was married to my spouse for 5 years (together for 7) and we have two children together ages 4 1/2 and 1 1/2. Last year I was informed that my "husband" was transgender and would be seeking to transition to female. Let's just say I took it bad. Lots of tears, angry words, etc....... I told him that transitioning would mean the end of our marriage. Fast forward to today I am still a work in progress with full genuine acceptance but I am getting there and she has been on HRT for 6 months and has a legal name change with a gender marker change on her drivers license though she is still in guy mode at work. My immediate family knows the situation and my mother is fine with it - my dad is another story and some of her close friends are aware of her transition and have been supportive. We did end up dissolving our marriage, but we have remained friends and still live in the same household raising our children. It hasen't been easy to say the least and there are some days better than other,s but I think we will get through it. I just recently got a cell phone family plan with her on it so yeah, we are not enemies. :)
But here is where I always feel like crap. The reason why I could not continue with the marriage was not the fact that the love is gone but the attraction has. I am hetero and have absolutely no attraction to women. I know that intimacy is very important to me - not so much her and I know I could not make the switch in my head and heart. But I feel like dog poo whenever I see other spouses staying together and making it work. In my head I'm thinking "Am I superficial - did all I see was a penis"? Then I hear of other stories where the transitioner has a marriage war brewing and all the responses go something to the effect of get rid of them, their opinion doesn't matter, they were in love with the lie, etc. And I feel even more crappy. I know that even though I ended the marriage I hope I am not looked upon like that and I hope my opinion does matter because like I said the love is still there and we still do things together as a family.
I don't mean to offend anyone with this question but why are spouses expected to change their sexuality and if not risk being labeled superficial? I can't change my sexuality anymore than my ex can change her gender identity? Is sexuality superficial and not important in a marriage? Or am I letting my guilt get the better of me?
I'm confused ???
Hi Tiger Lilly,
Welcome to the site.
Well I'm not sure what others think but from my point of view you have been extremely accepting and deserve both congratulations, support and sympathy.
I know from my personal experience of how people struggle with trans* issues and try very hard to be their born gender. Sadly most of us fail when the pressure, the depression and the 'living the lie' just end up ripping us apart.
You are a perfectly normal healthy heterosexual woman who wanted a male partner in your life and children and family, all the normal stuff we want as woman.
You have been denied that and it is not your fault in any way at all. You do feel betrayed and to be honest you have been. No matter the intention of your husband to try and live as a man and to be your partner and father of your children.
You have the right of any woman to seek a partner to enjoy your life with and I hope you do and have the opportunity to live your life to your satisfaction.
Your partner of course will feel distraught, she has lost the relationship (as have you) but I hope and pray that she has access to her children and can be a partner in raising them and a partner to you, as I think she does love you, and you her, but in a way that female friends love each other.
There is nothing to be ashamed of, there is no reason to feel you have not lived your part of the relationship.
I feel terribly sad for both of you. I know how it will be hurting your ex and I realise the pain she is in.
I hope you can see the terrible choice she had to make: Live and lose you and her family, or die.
It is a "Sophie's Choice" and a terrbile thing we have to go through.
My love to you and to your partner and children
Cindy
I'm more concerned with what you expect from your own life. Are you looking for a new sexual partner? Have you seriously asked yourself what you expect to get from one?
It is more than likely that any new sexual partner will want to affirm his own dominance, (for want of a modern term) and seek to undermine your partner/ex.
So, what it is you're actually doing?
Did you 'dissolve' your marriage as an act of revenge? Did/do you really want to drive your partner/ex away?
It isn't my place to tell you what to do. Relationships, by their nature, are personal, unique and individual. I'm trying to get closer to what it is you want and your own motivations.
You mention the notion of changing your orientation. Of course, that just doesn't happen.
But is sex actually the issue here? Have you stopped to consider the advantages of a relationship without sexual contact?
Again, I'm asking, not suggesting.
Quote from: spacial on May 22, 2013, 07:12:48 PM
I'm more concerned with what you expect from your own life. Are you looking for a new sexual partner? Have you seriously asked yourself what you expect to get from one?
It is more than likely that any new sexual partner will want to affirm his own dominance, (for want of a modern term) and seek to undermine your partner/ex.
So, what it is you're actually doing?
Did you 'dissolve' your marriage as an act of revenge? Did/do you really want to drive your partner/ex away?
It isn't my place to tell you what to do. Relationships, by their nature, are personal, unique and individual. I'm trying to get closer to what it is you want and your own motivations.
You mention the notion of changing your orientation. Of course, that just doesn't happen.
But is sex actually the issue here? Have you stopped to consider the advantages of a relationship without sexual contact?
Again, I'm asking, not suggesting.
Thank you for your response.
My motivation for ending my marriage was the fact that I cannot change my sexual orientation. I am heterosexual period. I want companionship and intimacy with a male, though I am not looking for some "me tarzan you jane" ogre to undermine my ex - we are co-parents and will remain that way. No revenge here, as it was and still is a painful subject for both of us.
We still live together and raise our children together and do things together so we basically have a relationship without sexual intimacy but I do miss being intimate with someone in a nutshell.
Quote from: Cindy. on May 22, 2013, 05:31:44 PM
Hi Tiger Lilly,
Welcome to the site.
Well I'm not sure what others think but from my point of view you have been extremely accepting and deserve both congratulations, support and sympathy.
I know from my personal experience of how people struggle with trans* issues and try very hard to be their born gender. Sadly most of us fail when the pressure, the depression and the 'living the lie' just end up ripping us apart.
You are a perfectly normal healthy heterosexual woman who wanted a male partner in your life and children and family, all the normal stuff we want as woman.
You have been denied that and it is not your fault in any way at all. You do feel betrayed and to be honest you have been. No matter the intention of your husband to try and live as a man and to be your partner and father of your children.
You have the right of any woman to seek a partner to enjoy your life with and I hope you do and have the opportunity to live your life to your satisfaction.
Your partner of course will feel distraught, she has lost the relationship (as have you) but I hope and pray that she has access to her children and can be a partner in raising them and a partner to you, as I think she does love you, and you her, but in a way that female friends love each other.
There is nothing to be ashamed of, there is no reason to feel you have not lived your part of the relationship.
I feel terribly sad for both of you. I know how it will be hurting your ex and I realise the pain she is in.
I hope you can see the terrible choice she had to make: Live and lose you and her family, or die.
It is a "Sophie's Choice" and a terrbile thing we have to go through.
My love to you and to your partner and children
Cindy
Thank you Cindy, I do appreciate that someone sees my point of view.
Oh I really do see the life changing choice she had to make, which makes the guilt come to the surface even more. Like I said before, I will remain friends and we do live together raising our children. That will not change in the near future. I just know what is in my heart and would know that I would not be happy in a lesbian relationship. I'm just doing the best I can and make things as easy for everyone involved.
Quote from: Tiger Lilly on May 22, 2013, 07:43:56 PM
Thank you for your response.
My motivation for ending my marriage was the fact that I cannot change my sexual orientation. I am heterosexual period. I want companionship and intimacy with a male, though I am not looking for some "me tarzan you jane" ogre to undermine my ex - we are co-parents and will remain that way. No revenge here, as it was and still is a painful subject for both of us.
We still live together and raise our children together and do things together so we basically have a relationship without sexual intimacy but I do miss being intimate with someone in a nutshell.
I understand those points which you carefully made in your opening post.
I was attempting to see your post from a different perspective. As it stands, it does seem somewhat inevitable.
So the question is, is the inevitable what you want?
You have chosen to continue a relationship with someone who you love. Where does that go from here?
Where we go from here is raising our children together as we already do, which is my focus anyways minus any intimacy with my ex.
Actually, I think you are perfectly valid in your feelings. I'm transgender (FTM), and yes, if someone left me because they didn't love me as a guy and wanted a woman, I'd be completely heartbroken. But I understand your feelings very well. Since I was raised female I was expected to be with guys, and even when I came out as a "lesbian" I still had people tell me that since I had a female body the "right" thing to do was be with a man, even if I couldn't feel the same intimate connection. But the fact is, I can't do that with a guy. I just can't. I couldn't enjoy sex on a physical level or an emotional level with a man. It's not superficial, it's not "falling in love with genitals" (actually, I'd date a woman with a penis too, as long as she was a woman and on HRT and such, so there you go), it's just how we're hardwired. It permeates not only the physical/sexual but also the emotional. I accepted my own sexual orientation because the thought of being with a guy makes me feel...empty, and loveless, like a part of myself is missing because I wouldn't be able to fully love the person I was with.
No one can change their orientation and no one should ever be expected to. I'm sorry people are making you feel guilty. Undoubtedly it is hard on your (ex)spouse, and hard on you, but no one is a bad person here. And let me tell you - a lot of those people guilting you for not looking past your ex's new sex would likely support and congratulate, say, a lesbian who realized she was gay while married to a man and divorced the man.
So the major problem is the loss if the intimate aspect?
addition.
I hope I don't come across as being, in any way, intolerant or unsympathetic. My intent is anything but.
To highlight Prof HB's point. You shouldn't be feeling any guilt here at all.
But if you do embark upon a exploration of a new physical relationship, how will your current relationship deal with it?
You know what will make you happy and chicky from my point of view your ex has taken the steps to make herself happy so are you not moving forward because of the kids or what is holding you back from seeking your own happiness?
If its the kids then stop because children pick up on things they read the mood and atmosphere and if either of you are not happy the child eventually comes to understand this and then problems can arise.
If you still love your partner well then you will need to resolve that one way or the other but don't be pressured by what other people may or may not think this is about you first and foremost.
Anyway just my two cents.
Button.
Quote from: Prof HB on May 22, 2013, 08:18:49 PM
It's not superficial, it's not "falling in love with genitals" (actually, I'd date a woman with a penis too, as long as she was a woman and on HRT and such, so there you go), it's just how we're hardwired. It permeates not only the physical/sexual but also the emotional. I accepted my own sexual orientation because the thought of being with a guy makes me feel...empty, and loveless, like a part of myself is missing because I wouldn't be able to fully love the person I was with.
No one can change their orientation and no one should ever be expected to. I'm sorry people are making you feel guilty. Undoubtedly it is hard on your (ex)spouse, and hard on you, but no one is a bad person here. And let me tell you - a lot of those people guilting you for not looking past your ex's new sex would likely support and congratulate, say, a lesbian who realized she was gay while married to a man and divorced the man.
Thank you Prof HB. I'm not hardwired to be with a woman, and though sexual intimacy is not everything in a relationship, it is very important to me and I am not looking to be in a sexless marriage to answer spacial's question. The love I have for my ex is now more of a bff relationship if that makes sense. The guilt is more self induced if anything. I have read too many transgender divorce horror stories. I feel that because my marriage ended because of the transition and I was the one who pulled the trigger I feel that I will be deemed heartless, and cold, revenge driven, you catch my drift.
Well, it sounds to me like you are treating your ex with as much compassion, understanding, and fairness as you can, and that's what matters. Sometimes things don't work out, but if each person can work to maintain the dignity of the other, that is what matters most.
Quote from: Tiger Lilly on May 22, 2013, 08:42:22 PM
Thank you Prof HB. I'm not hardwired to be with a woman, and though sexual intimacy is not everything in a relationship, it is very important to me and I am not looking to be in a sexless marriage to answer spacial's question. The love I have for my ex is now more of a bff relationship if that makes sense. The guilt is more self induced if anything. I have read too many transgender divorce horror stories. I feel that because my marriage ended because of the transition and I was the one who pulled the trigger I feel that I will be deemed heartless, and cold, revenge driven, you catch my drift.
As you note these are your guilt feelings coming through. In my opinion anyone who blames you for ending the marriage is just ignorant of the reality of the situation that we as trans* people have to live with and cope with.
The cold harsh reality of our trans* biology is that for many of us we have essentially one choice, live or die. Our death may be a prolonged enduring existence coping by substance abuse or continual waves of mind destroying depression. If we accept life we are aware that it will impact on others, particularly on others we love.
This site is full of people who have lost family, friends, jobs, church, social groups. All because we have to be ourselves or die.
Not one of us walks into that without profound horror and regret.
The regret is ours and the 'fault' is ours, though in Goddess's name what fault is it to be born this way? It certainly is not our choice to be trans*.
Get rid of your feelings of guilt, they will not allow you or your partner to move forward and live. She has accepted her life and you need to accept yours. If that involves dating and meeting men and forming a relationship, then so be it.
I would of course encourage you to talk deeply with your ex and explain that you need and will seek male companionship. It may hurt her to know that, but it is important that you live a full and happy life.
I wish you both well, and my heart goes out to both of you.
Cindy
Thank you all again. I do agree that I need to move on with my life and enjoy the things that I have. Like I said I am a work in progress and at times I do catch myself missing my marriage. But things sometimes don't always work the way you think and I'm slowly accepting it. I've got 2 awesome kids and I would not trade them for the world. Romantically speaking, I have a ways to go before I am ready to enter a new relationship, but it would be nice in the future.
Once again thank you all.
Quote from: Tiger Lilly on May 22, 2013, 05:06:41 PM
Yeah, I thought that title would get some attention. lol This is my first post to this forum though I have posted in other forums on other boards. I will give you a brief background of my situation up to this point.
I was married to my spouse for 5 years (together for 7) and we have two children together ages 4 1/2 and 1 1/2. Last year I was informed that my "husband" was transgender and would be seeking to transition to female. Let's just say I took it bad. Lots of tears, angry words, etc....... I told him that transitioning would mean the end of our marriage. Fast forward to today I am still a work in progress with full genuine acceptance but I am getting there and she has been on HRT for 6 months and has a legal name change with a gender marker change on her drivers license though she is still in guy mode at work. My immediate family knows the situation and my mother is fine with it - my dad is another story and some of her close friends are aware of her transition and have been supportive. We did end up dissolving our marriage, but we have remained friends and still live in the same household raising our children. It hasen't been easy to say the least and there are some days better than other,s but I think we will get through it. I just recently got a cell phone family plan with her on it so yeah, we are not enemies. :)
But here is where I always feel like crap. The reason why I could not continue with the marriage was not the fact that the love is gone but the attraction has. I am hetero and have absolutely no attraction to women. I know that intimacy is very important to me - not so much her and I know I could not make the switch in my head and heart. But I feel like dog poo whenever I see other spouses staying together and making it work. In my head I'm thinking "Am I superficial - did all I see was a penis"? Then I hear of other stories where the transitioner has a marriage war brewing and all the responses go something to the effect of get rid of them, their opinion doesn't matter, they were in love with the lie, etc. And I feel even more crappy. I know that even though I ended the marriage I hope I am not looked upon like that and I hope my opinion does matter because like I said the love is still there and we still do things together as a family.
I don't mean to offend anyone with this question but why are spouses expected to change their sexuality and if not risk being labeled superficial? I can't change my sexuality anymore than my ex can change her gender identity? Is sexuality superficial and not important in a marriage? Or am I letting my guilt get the better of me?
I'm confused ???
I am sorry that this has happened to you! I have very little sympathy for any grown adult who marries and has children while knowingly concealing a secret that they know would end the marriage and subject their children to the trauma of a dysfunctional family. If you truly feel that strongly about your orientation (I don't since mine and some(not all) of the ciswomen I am friends with seems to change, so it is hard for me to relate to you on this) that you would divorce then you have answered your own question so why should you be the one who feels guilty? Answer: You Shouldn't, you were the one who was deceived and you would have never been intimate/sexual with this person had you known the truth!
Now onto your children who are the most important part of this (and I am not attempting to minimize your anger/pain). Your children cannot be raised in a dysfunctional home, it will cause nothing but long term problems for them. If you truly have a concern for their future then you will seek the most stable environment you can find and attempt to give them a chance at a normal life! They did not ask to be born into this situation, you may feel wronged but they are the ones who have truly been wronged, they were born into a relationship between two people where lies were being told and secrets being kept!
I agree 100% with the comment from Spacial:
"It is more than likely that any new sexual partner will want to affirm his own dominance, (for want of a modern term) and seek to undermine your partner/ex.".This is very true, trust me as someone who has been behind the enemy lines in the "war between the Sexes" any man that you become involved with emotionally/sexually will want to become dominant, especially if he has intentions on having a long term relationship with you. It doesn't matter if he is a cappuccino drinking bicycle commuting metrosexual-hippie in San-Fran or the dirtiest foulmouthed MANLY hillbilly in all of Appalachia he will want to assert his dominance and know that you trust him, and you will more than likely allow/encourage it, that is what we as women do whether we realize it or not!
But ask yourself this question: Do your children need to see this played out in front of their eyes? Do they need to hear or see another person humiliate/destroy half of what they came from(your ex)? How will this make them feel about themselves? No they do not need to see this! Your children will have enough to deal with growing up and they do not need to hear/see someone else affirming your pain/anger in an attempt to assert his dominance, and trust me this will happen if you stay in your current circumstances.
I think you should make a serious effort at finding a new living arrangement before you consider bringing another person into your life. This seems like the only way that you can spare your children from any drama a man would bring to the situation.
In my State assets are community property 50/50, if your state has similar laws then you should offer to buy half of your ex's share in the home and allow her to find a new place to live, also whoever keeps the children would be entitled to compensation, this is something you could work out with her. If you are worried about a custody problem then don't, I can assure you I have some knowledge about the family court system (I live with someone who works in it) and your situation (transsexual spouse) is not unique, unless you are a Meth-head who works in the sex industry you will get full custody of your children.
I am sorry to be so long winded, I just hate to hear stories where one spouse was deceived and children are involved. I hope you will give some thought to what I wrote, but deep down only you know what is best for your situation!
My wife and i spent a good year shedding a lot of tears working through my dealings with GD. Our love for eachother plus a ton of open honest communication accomplished the rest. She still has her periods of TMI.
As far as what the future holds, neither of us know. In the near term for many reasons I cannot go full-time. Nor am I sure I need/want to. When the subject of a future life together with be being full-time comes up her response has always been and still is "I did not marry a woman. I had my chance to and I didn't... I cannot promise anything other than I'll always love you"
She always knew about my gender issues. Just not to deep they extended. She is also about the most understanding and knowledgable wife on the subject. Still, I know I did kick over the table. I cannot expect to her to change something as basic as sexual attraction.
Quote from: Jesslee on May 23, 2013, 05:16:01 AM
I am sorry that this has happened to you! I have very little sympathy for any grown adult who marries and has children while knowingly concealing a secret that they know would end the marriage and subject their children to the trauma of a dysfunctional family. If you truly feel that strongly about your orientation (I don't since mine and some(not all) of the ciswomen I am friends with seems to change, so it is hard for me to relate to you on this) that you would divorce then you have answered your own question so why should you be the one who feels guilty? Answer: You Shouldn't, you were the one who was deceived and you would have never been intimate/sexual with this person had you known the truth!
Now onto your children who are the most important part of this (and I am not attempting to minimize your anger/pain). Your children cannot be raised in a dysfunctional home, it will cause nothing but long term problems for them. If you truly have a concern for their future then you will seek the most stable environment you can find and attempt to give them a chance at a normal life! They did not ask to be born into this situation, you may feel wronged but they are the ones who have truly been wronged, they were born into a relationship between two people where lies were being told and secrets being kept!
I agree 100% with the comment from Spacial: "It is more than likely that any new sexual partner will want to affirm his own dominance, (for want of a modern term) and seek to undermine your partner/ex.".
This is very true, trust me as someone who has been behind the enemy lines in the "war between the Sexes" any man that you become involved with emotionally/sexually will want to become dominant, especially if he has intentions on having a long term relationship with you. It doesn't matter if he is a cappuccino drinking bicycle commuting metrosexual-hippie in San-Fran or the dirtiest foulmouthed MANLY hillbilly in all of Appalachia he will want to assert his dominance and know that you trust him, and you will more than likely allow/encourage it, that is what we as women do whether we realize it or not!
But ask yourself this question: Do your children need to see this played out in front of their eyes? Do they need to hear or see another person humiliate/destroy half of what they came from(your ex)? How will this make them feel about themselves? No they do not need to see this! Your children will have enough to deal with growing up and they do not need to hear/see someone else affirming your pain/anger in an attempt to assert his dominance, and trust me this will happen if you stay in your current circumstances.
I think you should make a serious effort at finding a new living arrangement before you consider bringing another person into your life. This seems like the only way that you can spare your children from any drama a man would bring to the situation.
In my State assets are community property 50/50, if your state has similar laws then you should offer to buy half of your ex's share in the home and allow her to find a new place to live, also whoever keeps the children would be entitled to compensation, this is something you could work out with her. If you are worried about a custody problem then don't, I can assure you I have some knowledge about the family court system (I live with someone who works in it) and your situation (transsexual spouse) is not unique, unless you are a Meth-head who works in the sex industry you will get full custody of your children.
I am sorry to be so long winded, I just hate to hear stories where one spouse was deceived and children are involved. I hope you will give some thought to what I wrote, but deep down only you know what is best for your situation!
Aren't you being a little harsh? In all honesty noone know the whole situation. Plus being Trans* has it own set of obstacles to overcome, Maybe things are a little more complicated than just straight up hiding a secret. While, yes I agree that hiding something like that was probably not the best course of action for her, they may of been other underlying circumstances, maybe fear, maybe lack of acceptance on her own part, maybe she was trying to survive as a guy to avoid the problems being a open Trans* women can have, who knows. I think everyone here should know really, how hard it is to actually be trans* and to deal with it. Like was said earlier, It comes down to transition or die alot of times, this is why we have the highest suicide rate out of any group, because it is so hard to deal with, and not everyone can deal with it. I know for me personally, I thought I could live as a guy for the rest of my life, thought I could control it, yet I was wrong, just like many of us are... You pretty much turned a honest question from Tiger Lilly,, and turned it into an attack on her S.O. In fact, if her S.O. is a member here and saw your post how do you think she would actually react to it?
I'm sorry Tiger Lilly, about everything you are going through right now, I think from everything you have wrote, you have gone above and beyond in trying to accept and understand everything that your S.O. is dealing with and going through. I don't think you are wrong in your feelings, however I think it will take some time but you can push throught it as well as you S.O. can push through her feelings for you and become the best of friends. After all, you had to see something in her that made you want to marry her. However it is your life, and you are the one that needs to make that decision about what you need to do to find happiness whether its having her moving out, or living in a peaceful coexistance with each other. I would think is there isn't too much negativity in the air at home, then the kids will be fine, maybe even end up with a more positive outlook on people who may be "different."
however only time will tell.
Best of luck to you
-Christina
Well, I am one of the spouses who stayed through transition, and we're happier together now than before... and I say you should not feel the teeniest bit guilty. :) You were as fair as you could be to her, and you still care for her, but anyone who thinks you should be able to change your orientation is precisely as reasonable as people who think you can "cure" being gay or "choose" to be straight - which is to say, not at ALL. You are a heterosexual woman, and as much as it hurts both of you, that means you cannot be in a romantic/intimate relationship with another woman.
The horror stories out there are toxic, and there is no shortage of people willing to say that any spouse who leaves is evil. They are, however, flat-out wrong. Like any other separation, some are bitter and vicious, but some are amicable and based on genuinely irreconcileable differences. (It was people like that who told my wife to divorce me as soon as possible, and also who had me more than half convinced that I *had* to leave, which tore me apart. In other words, it was the nasty people who say spouses always leave that came closest to destroying my marriage!)
You did the best you could, but you just aren't able to be who she needs, and the same is true of her for you. There's no blame on either side there.
Quote from: Jesslee on May 23, 2013, 05:16:01 AM
I am sorry that this has happened to you! I have very little sympathy for any grown adult who marries and has children while knowingly concealing a secret that they know would end the marriage and subject their children to the trauma of a dysfunctional family. If you truly feel that strongly about your orientation (I don't since mine and some(not all) of the ciswomen I am friends with seems to change, so it is hard for me to relate to you on this) that you would divorce then you have answered your own question so why should you be the one who feels guilty? Answer: You Shouldn't, you were the one who was deceived and you would have never been intimate/sexual with this person had you known the truth!
Now onto your children who are the most important part of this (and I am not attempting to minimize your anger/pain). Your children cannot be raised in a dysfunctional home, it will cause nothing but long term problems for them. If you truly have a concern for their future then you will seek the most stable environment you can find and attempt to give them a chance at a normal life! They did not ask to be born into this situation, you may feel wronged but they are the ones who have truly been wronged, they were born into a relationship between two people where lies were being told and secrets being kept!
I agree 100% with the comment from Spacial: "It is more than likely that any new sexual partner will want to affirm his own dominance, (for want of a modern term) and seek to undermine your partner/ex.".
This is very true, trust me as someone who has been behind the enemy lines in the "war between the Sexes" any man that you become involved with emotionally/sexually will want to become dominant, especially if he has intentions on having a long term relationship with you. It doesn't matter if he is a cappuccino drinking bicycle commuting metrosexual-hippie in San-Fran or the dirtiest foulmouthed MANLY hillbilly in all of Appalachia he will want to assert his dominance and know that you trust him, and you will more than likely allow/encourage it, that is what we as women do whether we realize it or not!
But ask yourself this question: Do your children need to see this played out in front of their eyes? Do they need to hear or see another person humiliate/destroy half of what they came from(your ex)? How will this make them feel about themselves? No they do not need to see this! Your children will have enough to deal with growing up and they do not need to hear/see someone else affirming your pain/anger in an attempt to assert his dominance, and trust me this will happen if you stay in your current circumstances.
I think you should make a serious effort at finding a new living arrangement before you consider bringing another person into your life. This seems like the only way that you can spare your children from any drama a man would bring to the situation.
In my State assets are community property 50/50, if your state has similar laws then you should offer to buy half of your ex's share in the home and allow her to find a new place to live, also whoever keeps the children would be entitled to compensation, this is something you could work out with her. If you are worried about a custody problem then don't, I can assure you I have some knowledge about the family court system (I live with someone who works in it) and your situation (transsexual spouse) is not unique, unless you are a Meth-head who works in the sex industry you will get full custody of your children.
I am sorry to be so long winded, I just hate to hear stories where one spouse was deceived and children are involved. I hope you will give some thought to what I wrote, but deep down only you know what is best for your situation!
I appreciate your concerns and comments, trust me I do but I am going to have to disagree with them to an extent.
Do I wish I never has been in this situation?...yes. Do I wish that my husband could have been upfront with me in the beginning?....yes. Would I have stayed having known of her gender dysphoria?....probably not. I admit those fully. However after making myself more knowledgeable on gender dysphoria I know that not every case is a clear case of deception. And knowing my ex's family background I can understand where feeling would have been supressed and denied.
As far as a new relationship is concerned, I have never once, nor do I plan on ever being in a relationship where I am being dominated and controlled. To say that I would allow this is to imply that women are mindless and are damsels in distress which I for one am not. Even without my ex's dysphoria I would never let some other man come in and take control and bad mouth my ex in front of me let alone my children. I would just as well stay single if that was the case.
And I truly believe that a household with 2 well-adjusted parents is a better house than just one. I apologize to all the single parents out there, but it is just my belief. So this is why we have agreed to raise our children together. We are not enemies, and I do not hate her as I know she did not ask to be trans and well you know s*** happens in life and we just have to roll with the punches no matter how many times they knock us down. I would never deny her access to our children because that is just plain cruel. So again another point that is not going to happen.
I think all I was trying to say in my original post was that I give kudos to all the spouses out there that can look past their sexual orientation and remain committed and in love regardless. I sometimes make myself feel guilty for not being one of those people. The love is still there but the feelings are no longer romantic and more of a friend love.
Quote from: Tiger Lilly on May 23, 2013, 02:27:56 PM
I appreciate your concerns and comments, trust me I do but I am going to have to disagree with them to an extent.
Do I wish I never has been in this situation?...yes. Do I wish that my husband could have been upfront with me in the beginning?....yes. Would I have stayed having known of her gender dysphoria?....probably not. I admit those fully. However after making myself more knowledgeable on gender dysphoria I know that not every case is a clear case of deception. And knowing my ex's family background I can understand where feeling would have been supressed and denied.
As far as a new relationship is concerned, I have never once, nor do I plan on ever being in a relationship where I am being dominated and controlled. To say that I would allow this is to imply that women are mindless and are damsels in distress which I for one am not. Even without my ex's dysphoria I would never let some other man come in and take control and bad mouth my ex in front of me let alone my children. I would just as well stay single if that was the case.
And I truly believe that a household with 2 well-adjusted parents is a better house than just one. I apologize to all the single parents out there, but it is just my belief. So this is why we have agreed to raise our children together. We are not enemies, and I do not hate her as I know she did not ask to be trans and well you know s*** happens in life and we just have to roll with the punches no matter how many times they knock us down. I would never deny her access to our children because that is just plain cruel. So again another point that is not going to happen.
I think all I was trying to say in my original post was that I give kudos to all the spouses out there that can look past their sexual orientation and remain committed and in love regardless. I sometimes make myself feel guilty for not being one of those people. The love is still there but the feelings are no longer romantic and more of a friend love.
Thank you so much Tiger Lilly for thinking about these points and responding.
I am so very happy for you now. I think you will do fine. You clearly have the skills, the intelligence, the anticipation to manage.
It isn't easy dealing with the whole notion of transgender. Believe me, that is one of the few things all of us here, including you, have in common.
The best each of us can hope for is tolerance. Tolerance of ourselves and each other. Tolerance of who we are. Tolerance from us to you and others affected, for your ambivalence, your antipathies, your problems, your confusions. Because what you have in common with us is, seeking to be comfortable with the consequences of this reality.
(I have to admit, I do also get frustrated by the "deception" narrative. It's true in some cases, but *no one* should be deciding whether or not a partner should feel deceived except the person themselves. I don't, and like you, Tiger Lilly, I trust that my wife was not lying to me.)
I also should have clarified that I'm bisexual, so I was not "looking past" my orientation. I was fortunate enough that my sexual orientation already included women.
Quote from: Jeepgirl90 on May 23, 2013, 11:15:20 AM
Aren't you being a little harsh? In all honesty noone know the whole situation. Plus being Trans* has it own set of obstacles to overcome, Maybe things are a little more complicated than just straight up hiding a secret.
I do not want to derail the Tiger Lilly's thread, I have a habit of doing this. Honestly I do not feel that I was being harsh I was only giving my opinion, and you are correct none of us know the whole situation. If what the OP said is 100% true then her ex was already very close to not being able to deal with "it" anymore but there was another child brought into the relationship before she decided to tell Tiger Lilly. This is the thing that seems a bit unfair to me, but like you said none of us know the whole situation. Yes being Trans has its own problems, and Tiger Lilly's ex will probably have more trouble doing what she needs to do if she is living in a situation where she has to watch her begin new relationships with men especially if those men become hostile to her, or she feels they are not the best people to be around the children. These types of things could cause her to de-transition and make the whole situation worse!
Quote from: Jeepgirl90 on May 23, 2013, 11:15:20 AM
I think everyone here should know really, how hard it is to actually be trans* and to deal with it. Like was said earlier, It comes down to transition or die alot of times, this is why we have the highest suicide rate out of any group, because it is so hard to deal with, and not everyone can deal with it. I know for me personally, I thought I could live as a guy for the rest of my life, thought I could control it, yet I was wrong, just like many of us are...
I agree with this, and I also tried really hard to live without transition. I was not implying that Tiger Lilly's ex should be made to feel bad about her need to transition, and I hope she does not take it that way.
Quote from: Jeepgirl90 on May 23, 2013, 11:15:20 AM
You pretty much turned a honest question from Tiger Lilly,, and turned it into an attack on her S.O. In fact, if her S.O. is a member here and saw your post how do you think she would actually react to it?
I don't understand how you can say I have attacked her S.O,? If you mean my comment
"I have very little sympathy for any grown adult who marries and has children while knowingly concealing a secret that they know would end the marriage and subject their children to the trauma of a dysfunctional family." well I think a better word would be "empathy" rather than sympathy. I cannot empathize with anyone who has GID and is able to conceal it from someone they love, I have only had two serious relationships in my life & in both I was completely honest with my partners from very early on, though at one time I also did believe that I could deal with the problem without transition I was still upfront about it with my partner, we have been together for 13 years but I am sure that had I not been honest from the beginning and I dropped the bomb on them at some point years into the relationship there would have been very serious problems most likely resulting in the end of our relationship.
I did not turn this into an attack on her ex, and I hope if she reads my post she will see that. Their marriage is over (according to Tiger Lilly) so it is now an issue of how to best handle a difficult situation. I only wanted to point out that the children in the relationship are innocent in this situation and they have no say in what their parents decide to do, but they are the ones who often suffer the most (I hear the horror stories every day). I hope that both Tiger Lilly and her ex will try to do what is in the best interest of their children, if it is handled carefully both parents can have good relationships with their children while simultaneously having happiness in their own lives!
I am sorry it was taken as an attack, it was not my intention.
Quote from: Tiger Lilly on May 23, 2013, 02:27:56 PM
I appreciate your concerns and comments, trust me I do but I am going to have to disagree with them to an extent.
Do I wish I never has been in this situation?...yes. Do I wish that my husband could have been upfront with me in the beginning?....yes. Would I have stayed having known of her gender dysphoria?....probably not. I admit those fully. However after making myself more knowledgeable on gender dysphoria I know that not every case is a clear case of deception. And knowing my ex's family background I can understand where feeling would have been supressed and denied.
I think a lot of what I wrote is coming out the wrong way, it is difficult to add emotion to text! I do not know what your ex's background was like so you are correct about this possibly being responsible for her trying to suppress her problems, I also did not come from a very accepting family or part of the country, so I can empathize with this point.
Quote from: Tiger Lilly on May 23, 2013, 02:27:56 PM
As far as a new relationship is concerned, I have never once, nor do I plan on ever being in a relationship where I am being dominated and controlled. To say that I would allow this is to imply that women are mindless and are damsels in distress which I for one am not. Even without my ex's dysphoria I would never let some other man come in and take control and bad mouth my ex in front of me let alone my children. I would just as well stay single if that was the case.
I am glad to hear that you have this opinion, I was not implying that you are the type of person that would be rolled over by a man. I (and I am sure many others on this site) look at hetero relationships with a slightly different perspective than most of the population. I have had the privilege of being on both sides of the fence and one thing I hear over and over when I listen to female friends is their desire to ignore the things in the male character that they don't like. It is what it is, most normal men want to be the provider/protector for their woman, they want to be seen as the hero. They desire approval for their actions and most women either consciously/subconsciously pick up on this and in an effort to show that they love them they give subtle approval. No amount of feminist indoctrination will ever change this, on this issue I am not cynical I am pragmatic!
Quote from: Tiger Lilly on May 23, 2013, 02:27:56 PM
And I truly believe that a household with 2 well-adjusted parents is a better house than just one. I apologize to all the single parents out there, but it is just my belief. So this is why we have agreed to raise our children together. We are not enemies, and I do not hate her as I know she did not ask to be trans and well you know s*** happens in life and we just have to roll with the punches no matter how many times they knock us down. I would never deny her access to our children because that is just plain cruel. So again another point that is not going to happen.
This I also strongly agree with, trust me I see my partner come home some nights and all she does is cry because of what she has seen two very unhappy parents doing to their children that day! The key to happy successful children is what you already said "2 well-adjusted parents", and it sounds like you already know this, which is very healthy. But I believe the old saying 2 is company and 3 is a crowd, I have 2 friends that divorced several years ago but due to student loans/mortgage and their children's schools they chose to continue to live together and it worked until one of them started dating again and as of today they are having more problems than they did while they were married. I was only mentioning this as something you should keep in mind, and know that there may be a point where you would have to quit the current living arrangements.
Quote from: Tiger Lilly on May 23, 2013, 02:27:56 PM
I would never deny her access to our children because that is just plain cruel. So again another point that is not going to happen.
I was not saying that you should, and I do not think that would be healthy in any way for your children. I was only mentioning that you would most likely be able to retain custody of your children, I know of a couple where the spouse decided to transition & the wife was totally unaccepting and wanted out of the marriage, but she was financially dependent on her spouse since the spouse made much more than she did and she was afraid that she would not be able to obtain custody of her children & provide for them If she wanted to start a new life with a different person. She stayed for too long in a relationship that became very toxic for everyone involved. I do not know your situation so I am not saying this in any way is similar to your relationship.
Honestly I may have read more into your post than what was there, It seems that you and your ex are still in a healthy relationship where you live together and raise your children, I am a little confused as to why you wanted to divorce so quickly if you are not considering moving out and starting a new relationship ? In my state there are many benefits to being legally married on paper, especially if you are living together & have children, taxes, insurance, and medical treatment are part of the benefits. If your spouse is ok with an open relationship then I do not understand the need to divorce I guess this was the reason I misinterpreted what you wrote I apologize, I should have been able to pick up on another's need to vent.
I should have been more specific when I mentioned "dissolved our marriage". We have ended our romantic partnership, but we are still legally married for all the reasons mentioned above.
We both realize that if any serious relationships develop then we would have to re-evaluate our arrangement I suppose. I don't know about her, but I am not looking for anything serious now or in the forseeable future - and I am one who can go long stretches in between serious relationships (the longest one I believe was 5 years).