Hello, everyone!
I'm kind of going through one of those stupid extra-dysphoric bouts where I'm freaking tired of nobody being able to recognize my female side unless I put a hell of a lot of effort into it, and my stupid brain always freaks out about how "OMG, I'm never going to get there!" feeling like I'm never going to reach the point where I just look female completely naturally with no effort whatsoever. So I just wanted to ask a simple question...
Members here talk all the time about "male fail" mode... that magical time in HRT where people start gendering you as female even when you're out in "guy mode." So out of curiosity, how long on HRT did it take everyone to get there?
I know I'm freaking out WAY too early in HRT about this, and I know that everyone's mileage will vary, but I'm just looking for some sort of general guess on length so that I can get my stupid brain to quit freaking out and just shut up about it already.
I'm at 6 months and I haven't hit that point yet, I thikn I'm starting to get close but not there yet. However I think it varies from person to person
I've had a couple of these. Oddly enough, they all involved a purple shirt. >_>
But yeah - it's unique per-person; you'll know when you encounter it, but you can't really put a timeline on it.
Carrie I hate being in guy mode too! You can try wearing as much feminine clothing as possible. You could try wearing some makeup in guy mode that's what I do. I find I can't completely dress as a man or I'll start crying now so I make the best out of a bad situation by making myself as feminine as possible. But Carrie don't worry you will eventually reach the point of people not being able to tell what you are. But in the mean time you can help give people a clue as to who you are by making yourself as feminine as possible.
I could probably still pass as male if I wished, even now that I'm two and a half years in. I haven't put this guess to the test, however. I probably started looking strange and feminine as a male something like six months into HRT.
I don't know about mail fail mode but I failed to pass as myself at the bank yesterday. It took the teller several minutes of looking at the photo and back at me and she eventually was like yeah I kinda see it. I've been on HRT for 12.5 weeks. I was called sir yesterday too though by a cashier at Walgreens so I'm not totally failing. I was so upset and I shouldn't have been since I've been on HRT for so short a time but yeah. It happened several times yesterday (another person called me buddy) and I think it was beard shadow as I couldn't get a close shave because I shaved the night before. What do you consider boy mode? I don't have any male clothes my mom gave them to Purple Heart.
For me I guess it was just about exactly six months, when I got kitted out in a hockey jersey, combat boots, and baseball cap to go to a hockey game (and bundled up underneath, although in women's jeans) and drunk creeps promptly hit on me. :) I stopped attempting male mode at all around the four-month mark, though, so that's as close as I can get to what you wanted?
Eh, my HRT dose is pretty low, so HRT probably has little to do with it. It started a bit before HRT anyway. Person with long hair, carrying a messenger bag for a purse, speaking like a girl... people tend to default to "ugly female", and those who know I am (or am supposed to be) a guy put me in a different category. I'm not a girl, but I'm definitely not a real guy either. Heck, there've been some accidental misgenderings. Honestly, if you get your voice down well, grow your hair out and don't make a point of acting the guy part, you'll enter this awkward stage quite fast. Not that it's bad. To me it's weird but much less weird and much preferable to just being a guy.
I'm at a year and a couple months, mostly read as male. :( But I'm not stopping anything!! ;)
It's different for everyone, like has been said before there's a dozen "little things" that if most are seen as male, you're male...if most are seen as female, you're female.
The tricky part is that these dozen things aren't singular items, they are cumulative and combination...i.e., broad shoulders + small hips (relative to each other, not the actual inches) = guyish, etc.
Some things are definitely one or the other, but aren't necessarily definitive (boobs = FEMALE, unless other signs negate them, in which case you're a "man with moobs"; 5 o'clock shadow = MALE, regardless of other things)
Height, weight, etc all play a part...my first thought on reading your post was "I wonder how her voice is?"
So...how is your voice?
I'm about 18 months in. About 4 months ago I've begun failing in guy mode while in my mechanics clothing.
Hey Carrie Liz,
I sure understand the self talk that can undermine our confidence but it is part of the transition to better days. It seems to me that so much of this is where we start from in body, age and attitude. And then, having a point of arrival or a "there point" as a goal might lead to disappointment? I hope you will give your brain some TLC and dare NOT to compare. Enjoy the journey. Savor each moment of emerging self recognition of the new you.
I frequently interact with college faculty and diversity groups and have been reminded that cisgender women and men also get misgendered. A librarian laughed about those "kids that speak their minds" and recalled being asked if she was a guy or not. Some of our sisters here at Susan's look so petite and nicely girly to begin with that it seems the journey must be easier. I doubt they think it is any easier tho?
I am a bit over two months on HRT and the biggest change in how I feel happened months earlier when I finally accepted myself as transgender. I encourage you to forget about the male fail or any other test of passing, you gotta love yourself!
Hugs,
Tessa James
5 months was my first ma'am. At 8 months I was getting it very consistently so I went full time, but people I think were still looking at me strange (especially men). It wasn't til about 16 months in where I started seeing what I looked like in boy clothes again without makeup to say that man mode is completely gone.
When I dress rather androgynous I get puzzled looks. Four months of a potent dose of HRT is coming up in six days.
I really agree with Tessa on not being overly concerned by "Male Fail". I agree so much I'll just quote her, "you gotta love yourself!" :)
Me? My voice? Uh, it passes. I fought back the breaking in my puberty, so it never became truly boyish. Even though I still hate testosterone for making me lose singing range, voice quality and making me make some distinctly male sounds I couldn't even do willingly if I tried, sometimes. Like, an occasional weird cough, sneeze, laugh, etc. sound in a pitch lower than I can reach if I try to ramp down my voice as much as I can. For that reason probably I have a male voice somewhere down there, but never wanted or had to use it so I don't know how. And seriously it's better this way. I just wish it didn't exist at all, and that I could sing properly within the full range I know I'm supposed to have.
So all I had to train once I decided to transition was very subtle things no one but me would've cared about. And singing. At some point I got pretty good at singing high, and then just as I was in the process of being tossed around and waiting for the psychiatrist, I had some sort of final puberty breakout that cancelled my singing practice and made a brand new Adam's apple appear. Seriously, not only does this thing look awful, but it's so uncomfortable! It's like an intruder in my neck. I'll do everything I can to gather the funds for a tracheal shave at the same time as I have my SRS. Even if it became invisible I'd want that. There's a freaking pebble in my throat and I very much dislike it. How do guys not get annoyed by it slightly - just enough to hurt a tiny bit and annoy a ton - in the way of every neck movement, every swallowing, every thing that touches the neck? (because to top it off this thing is sensitive!)
5-6 months people at work were like are you sick? you look like your losing too much weight? your face looks different? whatever drugs you are doing you need to stop your over doing it. Why is your hair long?.. cut it you look like a girl... lol
Thanks for the replies, everyone!
And yeah, I suppose this really isn't about passing, it's just a matter of personal vanity. I should really be grateful that I can pass at all when I go out, but I'll admit that even the ability to have a "guy mode" at all still drives me absolutely nuts. And I'm just all whiny and upset because I still have to put on a wig and a padded bra and a very specific type of clothes in order to pass, and it just makes me feel kind of like a fake, like I feel like I'm not really a girl because I have to put all this effort into passing, and once all of those things come off I'm just right back to being my stupid dumb guy self. Again, I know this is selfish, but it bothers me, and I really just want my gender to be incidental... something that I don't have to think about, something that I don't have to put so much effort into just in order to get the barest amount of recognition, and something that I don't have to think about and obsess over all the damned time.
And you know, there's always that lingering fear in the back of my head that I'm never going to get there, so I just needed some reassurance.
Quote from: Serena Lynn on May 24, 2013, 12:14:13 AM
5-6 months people at work were like are you sick? you look like your losing too much weight? your face looks different? whatever drugs you are doing you need to stop your over doing it. Why is your hair long?.. cut it you look like a girl... lol
Love it!
Quote from: Carrie Liz on May 24, 2013, 12:20:25 AM
And you know, there's always that lingering fear in the back of my head that I'm never going to get there, so I just needed some reassurance.
Carrie I have these same worries its not easy but I try to remember how early I am in transitioning and that it's kind of ridiculous to think I would completely pass as a woman at this stage in hrt. But I understand your fear that you'll never pass but if you look at the commits here it took a lot of months before they started completely passing. Carrie your going to be just fine it takes time.
Quote from: Serena Lynn on May 24, 2013, 12:14:13 AM
5-6 months people at work were like are you sick? you look like your losing too much weight? your face looks different? whatever drugs you are doing you need to stop your over doing it. Why is your hair long?.. cut it you look like a girl... lol
Had the 1st "losing too much weight" and "are you ill" questions heading my way after about 2 1/2 months. Made me slightly "de-androgynize" my clothes in the office (okay, so I was pushing it :P). Weight loss (not much, trimmed it down before starting HRT), but more particularly my waist getting slimmer (started at a waist-to-hip of 0.81, now at 0.74, all via loss in the waist though), and more translucent skin are the main culprits.
I think I'm at the 50/50 personally. I did an experiment to see if I pass. Basically, since I don't go out at all due to working 3rd shift at my job, I used Omegle to try this out. When I'm in guy mode I dress kind of androgynous (v-neck, skinny jeans, etc). When I got on Omegle in guy mode I got more disconnects from other users than I could count. So I stopped, put on my girl clothes, slapped on some mascara and eyeliner, made sure my hair was looking good, and the difference was astounding as I got less and less disconnections. Now I haven't been practicing my voice as I should be so I turned off my mic, but based on my appearance alone I'd say I pass. That really boosted my self-confidence (which is always at an all-time low).
Quote from: nataliebee334 on May 24, 2013, 09:01:32 AM
I think I'm at the 50/50 personally. I did an experiment to see if I pass. Basically, since I don't go out at all due to working 3rd shift at my job, I used Omegle to try this out. When I'm in guy mode I dress kind of androgynous (v-neck, skinny jeans, etc). When I got on Omegle in guy mode I got more disconnects from other users than I could count. So I stopped, put on my girl clothes, slapped on some mascara and eyeliner, made sure my hair was looking good, and the difference was astounding as I got less and less disconnections. Now I haven't been practicing my voice as I should be so I turned off my mic, but based on my appearance alone I'd say I pass. That really boosted my self-confidence (which is always at an all-time low).
That's actually really clever.
Except for all the wankers (literal and figurative) you have to wade through to do it.
Yeah the wankers were a problem which is why I spent 2 to 3 hours doing this lol
Speaking of 'male fail'... I went to take a health risk assessment, full guy mode... Sat down at the table with the nurse/medical professional of unknown denomination... And the lady asked me if I am, or could become, pregnant.
This not two hours after I was bemoaning my lack of femininity. :D
Quote from: ZoeM on May 24, 2013, 11:21:44 AM
Speaking of 'male fail'... I went to take a health risk assessment, full guy mode... Sat down at the table with the nurse/medical professional of unknown denomination... And the lady asked me if I am, or could become, pregnant.
This not two hours after I was bemoaning my lack of femininity. :D
Judging by your new avatar I can see why she thought you could get pregnant! Someone is looking pretty! Heck a little eyeliner and and a couple well-placed plucks of the eyebrows and you would go from pretty to fabulous!
Around the 18 months of HRT stage and a lot of electrolysis for me.
I was pretty androgynous as a teen anyway. I started HRT at 17 and went off to college at 19. By 19 I couldn't pass as male even if I tried.
It started around six months of HRT and by 8 months there was no way I could pass as a boy any longer. It didn't matter how I dressed. I remember that I was so unsure about myself that at times I would still dress as a boy. Often I would still get mam'ed or referred to as a dyke. That's when I figured that I was there.
But right before that time I started the Fail was the hardest time of my transition. That tweener stage. Whew it sucked.
Quote from: Reagan on May 24, 2013, 03:07:54 PM
It started around six months of HRT and by 8 months there was no way I could pass as a boy any longer. It didn't matter how I dressed. I remember that I was so unsure about myself that at times I would still dress as a boy. Often I would still get mam'ed or referred to as a dyke. That's when I figured that I was there.
But right before that time I started the Fail was the hardest time of my transition. That tweener stage. Whew it sucked.
I loved that tweener stage. I messed with people pretty hard during that time. I'd go from being a radical feminist to somebody who loved fart jokes just to see their reactions.
Ahaha, you're kinda cruel.
Me, I've contented myself with silently watching and internally laughing at debates about my gender involving hardly convincing arguments. (Hairpins = girl!)
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 24, 2013, 03:18:23 PM
I loved that tweener stage. I messed with people pretty hard during that time. I'd go from being a radical feminist to somebody who loved fart jokes just to see their reactions.
LOL! yeah I still remember some of the awkward encounters with cis people. It's funny now... looking back at it.
I dont know what exactly just happened... I was jogging and it was already going towards the dusk, so there were two young women on the street and they kept staring at me as I was slowly jogging towards them - it was already getting late, but there were still a lot of folks around - cyclists, skaters, joggers, dog-walkers etc :). And as I was passing them by, I heard one of them asking the other "Was that a man???" I was quite relaxed with my usual soft smile while running (and I was sweating as a pig too since I had been doing that for 50 mins already...). I now do my hair in an andro-hairstyle constantly and I dont have any explicitly rough or sharp features on my face... So, I felt pretty happy afterwards :)
I'm at almost a year, and I still need makeup to really pass. My real hair is longish, but also boyish, so that definitely doesn't help. I'm waiting until it gets to my shoulders before I begin to style it though... gonna be a while longer. But I'm just happy to be out, even if it takes an hour of getting makeup right :o
Quote from: Catherine.O on May 25, 2013, 01:32:44 PM
I'm at almost a year, and I still need makeup to really pass. My real hair is longish, but also boyish, so that definitely doesn't help. I'm waiting until it gets to my shoulders before I begin to style it though... gonna be a while longer. But I'm just happy to be out, even if it takes an hour of getting makeup right :o
I keep hoping as I start to close in on the five and six month marks I'll be free to dress down and still be gendered correctly. But in my heart I fret that'll never happen. If it doen't I hope to still have my happy attitude, as you still have! :)
I did sign up for some makeup party yesterday. Expecting it to be fun and maybe shave some time off.
3months, had my first incident of "Hello miss... I MEAN SIR! I'm so sorry!" Also at this stage it took the edge off the maleness and I was seen and treated more as a teen boy again rather than a man.
5-6months,
both male fail and female fail, it was unpleasant I explicitly didn't want to attract attention but I couldn't help it at this stage. I would walk past people they would stare I'd hear them whispering. "
While I was glad to not be male it got old REALLY quick.
8-9months I was falling far more on the female side... I would be gendered as female but I had to make effort to be passable as female.
16 months+ Is where I where I don't even have to really make an effort. I just looked like an unkempt wild-woman if I don't put in any effort.
Well no male fail for me at all but then at this stage(only a little behind you on hrt) I am not exactly able to dress for feminine partly cause I do not want to change my dress sense(barely any) too much but also not too many people in my family know i am transitioning and they are ones that visit alot. Also have yet to build the confidence to try and go out dressed up anyway, the closest I got was for my last Endo appointment I wore my new boots black pants with a pirate/renaissance style shirt I have with what on the label was described as a pirate coat. so I was flashy but no make up. Got no weird looks.
Also extreme lack of feminine clothes(besides one dress) and makeup(only lipstick, eyeliner) Makes it tricky.
I also feel that in your new avatar and ZoeyM's aswell that I see no masculinity showing all girl. Congrats both of you.
I was systematically passing after my third laser session pre-HRT but I mastered the voice early on too so I guess it would be hard to tell. At my age passing pre-HRT is rather uncommon though so I know I was very lucky to be able to pull that off so easily.
I'll let you know when I get there.
Quote from: EmeraldPerpugilliam on May 26, 2013, 04:04:35 PM
Well no male fail for me at all but then at this stage(only a little behind you on hrt) I am not exactly able to dress for feminine partly cause I do not want to change my dress sense(barely any) too much but also not too many people in my family know i am transitioning and they are ones that visit alot. Also have yet to build the confidence to try and go out dressed up anyway, the closest I got was for my last Endo appointment I wore my new boots black pants with a pirate/renaissance style shirt I have with what on the label was described as a pirate coat. so I was flashy but no make up. Got no weird looks.
Also extreme lack of feminine clothes(besides one dress) and makeup(only lipstick, eyeliner) Makes it tricky.
I also feel that in your new avatar and ZoeyM's aswell that I see no masculinity showing all girl. Congrats both of you.
Thanks so much! ^_^ hugs!
Be patient! I know it's tough and I felt the same way at 4 months too... and 5... and 6... until about month 8. At month 6 people started confusing me - I was presenting as male at work at the time so no make up or femme clothes. I do timing and event management for endurance races and, often participants would address me as ma'am but then apologize. From month 7-8 I noticed a huge difference. I now go out with a little foundation or no makeup and I want to say 99% of the people see me as female. I have heard a lot of people kind of hit this "spurt" around month 7-8 and I definitely did.
Just hang in there, it will certainly get better, promise! :)
I started to pass at 73 days but now I feel like my progress has stopped and I am done changing and that is the end. That isn't possible is it? Because I do realize I am privileged to pass that quickly and all but I want to not just be passable but also pretty. I need laser like yesterday but I won't be able to get it for like another three weeks or so. I am also hoping to get laser resurfacing to get rid of pockmarks I got like a couple years ago. I had horrible acne and I literally had these boils on my face for weeks and I cried everyday. The finally went away but not without damage. makeup does cover them up for the most part.
Anyhoo, I can't wait to get to the 8 month mark. Gwad that seems great. But I am just really happy to be on HRT. last night I went to sleep with a big smile on my face with the thought that in three short years being a man will be this nightmare that I will no longer have any memory of it's gross appendage that is attached to me. Ack!
Quote from: Joanna Dark on May 26, 2013, 07:10:27 PM
I started to pass at 73 days but now I feel like my progress has stopped and I am done changing and that is the end. That isn't possible is it? Because I do realize I am privileged to pass that quickly and all but I want to not just be passable but also pretty. I need laser like yesterday but I won't be able to get it for like another three weeks or so. I am also hoping to get laser resurfacing to get rid of pockmarks I got like a couple years ago. I had horrible acne and I literally had these boils on my face for weeks and I cried everyday. The finally went away but not without damage. makeup does cover them up for the most part.
Anyhoo, I can't wait to get to the 8 month mark. Gwad that seems great. But I am just really happy to be on HRT. last night I went to sleep with a big smile on my face with the thought that in three short years being a man will be this nightmare that I will no longer have any memory of it's gross appendage that is attached to me. Ack!
I had the same thought last night. I just have to make the best of these few years while I'm in transition and have faith that at the end of it all, I'll be beautiful and complete.
And I agree, it's lucky for one to pass early on in/before HRT. And I'm very happy for you, that you're passing. You deserve all the happiness in the world and I know how hard you've had to work to get to this point in your life.
Quote from: kyh on May 26, 2013, 07:12:35 PM
I had the same thought last night. I just have to make the best of these few years while I'm in transition and have faith that at the end of it all, I'll be beautiful and complete.
And I agree, it's lucky for one to pass early on in/before HRT. And I'm very happy for you, that you're passing. You deserve all the happiness in the world and I know how hard you've had to work to get to this point in your life.
Just thought I would throw in my two cents. Kyh, I already think you are beautiful. Your avatar picture is very cute!
Hey I'll trade pockmarks any day! I have super bad psoriasis... I live in Florida, work outside and wear a sweater and long pants which doesn't even cover it all! It's on my neck now too :/
I think you look great! And I don't think the changes just stop! You're fine. I remember it sort of came in waves. First month, nothing. Second to third month, skin softened and little booby buds started developing. Forth to fifth month I started looking very androgynous. Six to seven started femming up. Finally, as I mentioned, seven to eight was like, "woah!" It was like I woke up one day feeling great about me:)
Google some comprehensive HRT timelines - especially month by month - and you'll see trends similar. I think for the most part, most people go through this and what varies is the time between waves!
Quote from: Darkie on May 26, 2013, 07:15:48 PM
Just thought I would throw in my two cents. Kyh, I already think you are beautiful. Your avatar picture is very cute!
You're a sweetheart ;D thank you! I try to keep my spirits and hopes high, and I think that shows in my profile picture :)