Often times, we spend so much time obsessing over what's feminine, what's not, giving up little touches of style that we fear may make us seem like less of men, even changing multiple times even before going on a simple outing... At least, I remember I did. The funny part that I've discovered, however, is that, in my struggle to be seen as who I was, I often sacrificed other aspects of myself in vain. After realizing that, I still made the efforts to pass that I felt suitable, such as binding, packing, and my haircut (a form of expression that I love dearly), but let go of all of the second thoughts and negative double takes just before walking out the door... And wouldn't you know it, a few weeks later, a waitress I'd never met before addressed me numerous times as sir, as I sit astonished and ecstatic in my extra-small Sailor Moon hoodie (which binds suprisingly well!) and platform Demonia boots, with eyelids painted in black shadow and rimmed in bright red beneath. The message I got out of that experience was that one of the best ways to ensure your chances of passing is to simply be comfortable enough to accept yourself. Others will find it easier then to follow suit.
I know I ended up sacrificing a fair chunk of the person I wanted to be in order to be seen as male. It sometimes makes sense that we get addressed as male when behaving femininely.
I believe when I pass easily, I'll probably present a bit more colorfully. I think it's a bit who I am. I am not really at all femme, but I do still have a strong strain of androgyny. But my desire to pass is really strong. I think these things tend to be read female. What I say right now is I'm not that secure in my masculinity. :) Right now, I sort of like my Hawaiian shirts.
--Jay
Quote from: Nygeel on May 28, 2013, 09:06:48 PM
I know I ended up sacrificing a fair chunk of the person I wanted to be in order to be seen as male.
Quote from: aleon515 on May 28, 2013, 10:21:01 PM
I believe when I pass easily, I'll probably present a bit more colorfully.
I just have to say that these make me a bit sad. You should be who you are regardless of what others may think. :-\
Quote from: Simon on May 28, 2013, 10:48:40 PM
I just have to say that these make me a bit sad. You should be who you are regardless of what others may think. :-\
I agree that you should be who you are regardless of how others might think, but sometimes you have to do things for the sake of your mental health, or at some points physical health. I have a number of friends who present themselves as visibly queer and ambiguous in gender expression who get beaten up by random people on the street (in daylight in a "LGBT friendly" city). Sometimes you go with the option that's going to cause the least resistance.
I was worried about my feminineness at first, but then I realized 1) that's stupid, 2) I refuse to believe one has to be one or other or that being one makes one less of the other, and 3) my guy friends consist of someone who repeated says "hugs" when we chat, a guy who frequently posts pictures of cute animals on his facebook page, and another guy who likes cute things. If they can be effeminate and be totally confident about it, I can be confident as well. I can be confident about being masculine as well. I can be confident about being weird. I can be confident about getting overly excited about fiction and other things. I can be confident about who I am because I really like myself and I have a lot of fun being myself.
I think most transguys can relate to this and sooner or later you have to figure out by yourself how much you want to sacrifice by passing and how much you want to just do because you like it. I wear tight pants for the moment, I know my chance of passing is better in lose pants but I like those pants so I guess I picked them over passing, yet I wont shave my head bald because it would make me non-pass able (and I dont like being bald either)
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so yeah its kinda difficult to figure out. I am one of those people who pass better when I look abit femenine than when I try to dress as masculine as I can. ex I pass better with long hair than short.
I always thouhgt when I started to pass I would go out be more femenine, which somehow kinda true, but yet I also feel difficult to break the male-norm thing on how I am suposed to be, those most men get but which im just getting used to. but as mention I think its something you learn over time.
My chest is really what holds me back from expressing myself. I would love to just wear a regular t shirt, but I will only wear a hoodie button up or polo.
Quote from: Simon on May 28, 2013, 10:48:40 PM
I just have to say that these make me a bit sad. You should be who you are regardless of what others may think. :-\
Well right now, it is more important for me to pass. I think I'll do what I want later on.
It's just a little while that one is in that in between sort of state. I also wear more button-down shirts than I might. But again after top surgery I would feel better about wearing them. I'm holding on to them.
--Jay
I always thought my behaviours were hindering my passing, but never compromised...only to find out that they weren't. It was my appearance and voice. So even if I had acted very typically masculine, I'd have had issues passing. I've been told I'm not entirely as feminine acting as I believe myself to be anyway.
Yeah Prof HB, thinking my body language, etc. has a lot to do with it, as I have gotten a reaction (a lot of places) that I look like I would pass. I think one finds ones balance?
--Jay
It may...judging by your photo, I think you should be passing. But, when you mentioned that you are shorter, that told me that it could potentially be a big factor. I think though, with more time on hormones, the height won't be so important. I suppose body language could be a factor too, but if it's not over-the-top screaming female socialization (and not many behaviours do, imo) I don't see how it would be enough to tip the scale in people's minds.
Yeah, I can definitely relate!
I tend to have a rather odd taste of things and style (according to many at least. To me it makes perfect sense, lol XD), and I tend to be overenthusiastic and emotional sometimes.
When previously I didn't care whether something was female or male, rather that it fitted with me (as I was a female, right, and people encouraged me to 'develop' that side more, even though I was more comfortable being more 'male' or 'butch'). I wore nailpolish a couple of times (not the sparkly kind, but blue, orange, green, AKA; crazy colours), and still wear a celtic-knotwork ring (though I usually take it off outside for passing reasons, even though it's absolutely not feminine). I also wanted to get my ears pierced and get them stretched at some point, but decided not to because of passing, etc.
I just track everything a bit more, and sometimes almost lose my style in the process. But usually I don't care that much, lol, I would rather be confident with myself -even if that self is looking more or less female-, than being an insecure guy. (but unfortunately lots of my insecurity issues are related with being misgendered, but anyway)
But yeah, I view this whole process as a road of acceptance, of embracing yourself and becoming more like that self. And changing my body from female to male is only a single step in a long road. Okay, maybe a couple miles, but you get the idea XD
Quote from: Michael Joseph on May 29, 2013, 12:07:35 PM
My chest is really what holds me back from expressing myself. I would love to just wear a regular t shirt, but I will only wear a hoodie button up or polo.
Same here and I didn't think of this topic in that sense. I wear a lot more plaid and stripes than I'd like to, to divert the eye away from my chest. Also a lot of laying. I swear after top surgery I'm never wearing an undershirt again.
Now that I'm on T I may let my hair grow long or at least longer than the buzz cut I currently have. The longer I'm on T the less I'll feel the need to have my hair so very short because I will feel more masculine in new ways. ~hope
One of the things I've been thinking about is that I would kinda like to shave my whole face, but I rely on my facial hair to get seen as male, so I sacrifice that.
I'm glad I don't care how I come off to people, so that I don't end up losing a part of myself in trying to convince others of what I am.
Although when I originally decided I didn't need to transition (how wrong I was), I started trying to suppress my male attributes to appear more feminine. I tried to force my voice to be girlier, started shaving my arms and my upper lip, dressed in tight pants and even tried wearing makeup for a little while (I am NOT good at makeup). But I still walked and talked more masculine for the most part, and could never force myself to just let my hair grow long, and I think because of that, people still saw me as "pretty" masculine.
I think if I'd never tried to feminize, I wouldn't be nearly as femme as I am today (I've somehow learned to love bright pink and animal print, oh lawd). But it's there now, and I'm not gonna try to suppress myself like I did before. It just doesn't feel right, and it just doesn't feel "me".
@Erik
Quite honestly, I think gauges would help you pass. Not big ones (I immediately dropped a few sizes once I realized how hard it is to pass/look good as a male with 3/4"), but usually anything from 4-00 looks good on anyone, and I think with the dreads you already got in, it might come together to make you look more masculine. :) You could always do what you did with your facial hair pics and photoshop them in to see how they'll look. xP
I have gauges in the bottom and top of my ears. I wore a spike in my labret but unfortunately had to take it out after a while. Looking back I think I wanted those piercings because they made me feel more masculine. I remember specifically liking my labret piercing so much because it was where I wished I had a soul patch. ~hope
Quote from: Prof HB on May 29, 2013, 12:23:38 PM
It may...judging by your photo, I think you should be passing. But, when you mentioned that you are shorter, that told me that it could potentially be a big factor. I think though, with more time on hormones, the height won't be so important. I suppose body language could be a factor too, but if it's not over-the-top screaming female socialization (and not many behaviours do, imo) I don't see how it would be enough to tip the scale in people's minds.
I think things like height and hair length and even things like big earrings (I don't wear), can't be an issue initially. But from my observation don't seem to matter later on. I am very early on T, so that I think that the little things might stand out more.
Body language, maybe. Not sure I have never been feminine particularly. I've always walked more like a duck than a girl. :)
--Jay
This really won't relate to me for a while but when I do transition, I'm going to express myself how I want to and if someone doesn't like it, oh well. In fact, after discovering that I'm trans, it has actually brought out my effiminate side more.
Quote from: D0LL on May 29, 2013, 06:06:51 PM
I'm glad I don't care how I come off to people, so that I don't end up losing a part of myself in trying to convince others of what I am.
Quote from: Malachite on May 29, 2013, 07:09:24 PM
This really won't relate to me for a while but when I do transition, I'm going to express myself how I want to and if someone doesn't like it, oh well. In fact, after discovering that I'm trans, it has actually brought out my effiminate side more.
Same for me, I really don't care how others perceive me much now. I am not on T, haven't had top surgery, so I know no matter how much I try, I am either just going to be read as female or seen as a little boy. So, I just wear what I want and if I pass, yay for me!, if not, no big deal. When I thought I was a butch lesbian, I dressed
very masculine and often had crazy haircuts, sometimes I passed but I wasn't trying.
Right now, I really don't even try to look male, since I am working Mon-Fri where I dress as female, so by the time I get out of work, I am usually just going home so there's no point in trying to really look male at home. On weekends, I usually just go to the grocery store. I guess I am just lazy, but I really don't care what people at the supermarket think of me, so I don't bother getting all dressed up to go out. Sometimes I wear my binder there, other times I just go in my workout clothes. :laugh:
The only time I ever worried about it was when I unexpectedly ended up going stealth at 6 months on t. I spent a few months worrying about my chest and hips all the time.
Never really thought about mannerisms, though. That to me seems like it'd be more annoying than being really careful with clothes.
I've become more confident now, but what really holds back my ability to pass is my voice. Hopefully T will deepen it enough to change that.
I wear tshirts and jeans or cargo shorts and sneakers. That's how I express myself and that's how I'll eventually pass. I don't have a reason to dress up but when I do I'll make choices that are more masculine. Shirt, tie, vest, slacks, dress shoes to match the belt.
My personality won't change if I can help it. So many people love me the way I am that I don't want to disappoint them. I'll still be goofy, cute, and make jokes constantly. The one thing I am looking forward to with transitioning is my confidence level going up. It already has in many ways but once I am passing full time I feel that I'll be the cocky sob I've always been but have buried because 'women don't act like that.'
I want to clarify that I don't actually care that much what others think *except* I get angry if I am misgendered (so I guess it is what others think). But I am more saving my own feelings in a way.
--Jay
Here's my current viewpoint on it. I am going to dress and have my hair exactly how I want it, regardless of what other people think about it. I grab a little bit of this and little bit of that. Whatever I like. I don't have a personal style that I would say would lead to me taking a bunch of sh*t for it from other people, but I'm "eclectic" for lack of a better word.
My personal opinion has always been, if you're going to work a certain look (punk, emo kid, metal head, lumberjack, pirate, ninja, raver, whatever ...) there are going to be people who won't like it, and who will do or say things to you about it. A guy wearing makeup or a dress is another example. Sure he can do it, but he's going to catch some slack for it that could include actual physical violence against him.
There's people out there in the world who can't even deal with gay as a concept, let alone trans, and their fear and hatred will drive them to lash out. It's a terrible thing, but it's reality. So I don't judge anyone who conforms or changes something about themselves when they're seen in public in order to "blend in" more.
I also applaud anyone who is out there pushing the boundaries. It takes guts and an inner confidence to pull off being yourself sometimes.
Quote from: insideontheoutside on June 01, 2013, 07:33:16 PMif you're going to work a certain look (punk, emo kid, metal head, lumberjack, pirate, ninja, raver, whatever ...) there are going to be people who won't like it, and who will do or say things to you about it.
I once had a goth tell me it wasn't Halloween. I find that hilarious.
It also depends on balancing dysphoria with personal style. For example, I almost always wear baggy pants now because my hips bug me (it helps that I also like baggy pants).
I'm selfishly glad that my "freedom of expression" is quite stereotypically masculine, so I don't need to even think about this dilemma between being read as male and being myself. I have a friend who has decided against some "girly" or non-masculine clothing and expression choices because he wasn't "passing" consistently. His tastes aren't my tastes, but I wish he could just wear what he wants and paint his damn fingernails without being questioned or ridiculed.
Quote from: Edge on June 01, 2013, 10:47:36 PM
I once had a goth tell me it wasn't Halloween. I find that hilarious.
It also depends on balancing dysphoria with personal style. For example, I almost always wear baggy pants now because my hips bug me (it helps that I also like baggy pants).
Oh yeah, that sort of thing is highly amusing. It's like, ok, you're going to rock your look, but then you're also going to diss someone for doing their own thing?
Quote from: Arch on June 01, 2013, 11:04:38 PM
His tastes aren't my tastes, but I wish he could just wear what he wants and paint his damn fingernails without being questioned or ridiculed.
I wish this too. I wish people would just lighten up and let everyone just be whoever they are.
I feel you, I'm not terribly feminine and everyone I know knows that, but I do like to wear some jewelry that aren't excessively feminine and I like to cross dress just to push gender boundaries. I too suppress these things however in order to pass better, since I just look really androgynous otherwise. I decided I wouldn't suppress these things any longer if I could ever move to a location where HRT was possible to get and covered by my insurance.
Ultimately you do what you have to do. You have to decide whether expression or passing is more important. Maybe balance it and let the feminine side out only at home or with friends if you hate being mis gendered by people that don't know you.