I dunno how to describe them, just 'those teenage girls' who judge everyone they see.
I went to see a movie today, happened to be passing pretty well even though I wasn't trying, the movie had a trans joke in it that really wasn't funny at all, so I was already in a sensitive mood. Then I had to go into Omega Sports to grab a swim suit for camp- one of those women's racing swimsuits, I knew what size I needed, what brand, where in the store, so it was supposed to just be a walk in, walk out trip. Of course 'those girls' were all gathered around the swimsuits. When I approached they gave me funny looks but I tried to ignore them, then when I was checking out they were behind me and I glanced back and could tell by their faces and the way they were looking at me that they were talking about me...
I don't really know where I was going with telling you this, I'm just really fricking tired of this crap. Why do people have to be like this? Why is it that we have to be something to talk about whenever we walk in somewhere? For me this is one of the worst parts of being trans- being talked about behind my back.
Trust me, they weren't doing it because you're trans, they were doing it because they're horrible people. I know exactly what type of girls you're on about. The ones who think they're so much better than everyone else and feel it's their place to judge when really they're just a rude person themselves who need to get a grip on reality. Those girls are what stop me from going to certain colleges or shops. They don't even have to say anything, sometimes it's just the looks alone. As you can probably sense from this, I'm not too fond of them either. The only thing that keeps me sane about the whole thing is knowing that I'm ten times better than they'll ever be, and you are too.
There are always going to be people who pick on others about something and it doesn't matter what it is. It's a hard thing to do at first but let em' talk. Keep your head up and confidently remove yourself from the situation asap.
I have a motto that I live by, "As long as they're talking about me at least they're leaving somebody else alone."
Don't let it get you down. It really says nothing about you when people do things like that but it shows their lack of character.
I just thought of something else to add because I just found out that someone I went to High School with seen me last week when I went to the town I grew up in to visit my papaw. The person who told me is my friend but deals with the other person because they're now related through marriage.
Well, the girl (who was my friend in school) wants to talk about how I'm a freak. You know...the usual transphobic rhetoric. Did it bother me? Ehhh, not what she said but that we were friends for years and now she pulls this. The thing is when you're trans you're going to have to deal with a certain level of crap. You can let it break you, make you mean, antisocial, or just completely paranoid. If you let people hurt you then they win.
Always consider the source. The bad thing is most of the time we pay attention to what is said about us but we don't look at the people saying them. Do you value that person's opinion? No? Then let it roll off like water off a duck's back.
Boys can do the same, btw. Especially around the 12 year old mark, and when they are in a pack. It's kind of funny to study that age group, all of them trying to impress the others by being stupid and making the rest of the world facepalm.
Your girls sound a little older, but I assume still teenager? I just consider them a different species. They are not too bright in the head yet (some of them never will be), so should be pitied. Shame on them for being idiots, no? I do understand why you are bothered by them. Everytime it happens to me (not very often because I have quite an evil stare) I just lose a tiny bit of faith in humanity.
They're all over the place!In a few years they'll be shoving prams round grotty estates,losers going nowhere.If it gets to much a *!@+ you b!*!! said to her face is an appropriate reply.
Ugh. 'Those girls' are one of the reasons why I'm transitioning, because I too am sick & tired of their nonsense. OK, admittedly, they're extremely low down on my list of reasons, but they are there. I've always been under intense scrutiny because they perceive me as a threat.
I could go into a massive autistic rant here about how certain types of neurotypical people, but especially certain neurotypical females, seem to have nothing better to do with their lives than to focus on their own social status. It seems like the only thing they have of value is their social 'skills', so their life's work is all about being popular with their friends. But that doesn't just mean that they need to win each social encounter, they also have to try to annihilate the competition.
Which is why these women ruthlessly compare themselves to anybody who might be seen as competition, just so that they can feel they've scored another social status 'win'. You were in the women's swimwear department (and let's face it, women can be extremely competitive when it comes to how they look in swimsuits) so they were automatically in attack mode.
I don't know whether other guys have found the same thing, but I discovered as I started to look less & less female, I got less of this kind of attention from women. It still happens occasionally (because I pass pretty well but not perfectly) but in most cases, instead of giving me those judgemental looks I have women clutching their handbags & looking over their shoulders to make sure they're not in danger. So I'm still a threat to them; but now they see me as a threat to their personal safety rather than a threat to their ability to attract the cutest guy in the room. (Pssst... hey ladies, the cutest guy in the room is often gay. LOL ;D ).
My approach to the whole thing? I bear in mind the words of the late, great Coco Chanel: "I don't care what you think about me. I don't think about you at all."
My ex girlfriend told me that if I transition fully, "those girls" will beg to pay attention to them :D I don't think it's relevant but made me feel good every time.
^ Haha, I like that point of view!
I've always hated those stereotypical teenage chicks. Worst part is, even though the world is becoming a much more tolerable place in terms of race, gender, sexuality, etc., the younger generation becomes more and more obsessed with social status.
I've always been tormented by "those girls" for every little thing I do. I find it annoying, but I'm not annoyed at the fact that they're doing that sort of thing to me, just at the fact that they exist at all. It's a shame those girls are the ones who're so good at procreating (if I'd forgotten the apostrophe, I'd have made a really good pun right there).
I think by far, though, my mom's the most annoying one of "those girls" I've ever met. She carried her awful high school personality into her 50's, and continues to act the same way in public and at home. Can't wait 'til I come out to her, as she's already probably saying the most ridiculous crap to her girlfriends at work about how I've been dressing. *rolls eyes* I've watched her a few times with her friends, and she'll take a completely non-incident between her and someone else, and blow it up to her friends like it was this huge thing and that other person treated her like such crap, blah blah blah. She's constantly gossiping about the little things other people do. Quite honestly, she constantly starts yelling at me, acting like I started having an attitude first when I did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, and then when I get mad about her out-of-nowhere attitude and actually develop an attitude about the situation, her actions are justified. >.> I feel bad thinking about how all the young girls like that today are going to grow up in their late teens to be the same type of mother.
I can't wait to be a sexy, ripped mofo, just the see the 180 those girls pull, as Jared mentioned. xD
Sometimes I wish it was just ok to punch younger chicks. The urge to do so gets so strong whenever I see these types of girls.
Quote from: Mr.X on June 05, 2013, 02:51:21 AM
Boys can do the same, btw. Especially around the 12 year old mark, and when they are in a pack. It's kind of funny to study that age group, all of them trying to impress the others by being stupid and making the rest of the world facepalm.
They can be even older to do that, 17-19.
I was three years older than most of the people in my class back in vocational school and there was this one group of three guys who decided to choose me to pick on during the second year. They never said anything to my face but when they had each other to rely on they did wrote ->-bleeped-<- about me on the walls in the workshop we used for practising and one of them wrote a Finnish slur for a lesbian on my disposable coffee mug at one worksite. They never acted like that when they were alone and were pretty... approriate guys when they didn't have the others around.
Those things didn't really upset me, they just caused me to facepalm mentally so hard I think I dislodged my brain in the process. My friends were the ones who got upset and even angry about all that, not to talk about the teachers when they were told.
Quote from: D0LL on June 05, 2013, 11:07:24 AM
It's a shame those girls are the ones who're so good at procreating (if I'd forgotten the apostrophe, I'd have made a really good pun right there).
Hehe ;D
It would be some kind of revenge to attrect these girls some day xD I used to think of this when I don't get any respect from them (cause some of them are my "friends" and I'm out to them but they don't see me as a guy and they don't even want to.) Give me a couple of years and we'll see ;D
Quote from: Tossu-sama on June 05, 2013, 11:28:25 AM
I was three years older than most of the people in my class back in vocational school and there was this one group of three guys who decided to choose me to pick on during the second year. They never said anything to my face but when they had each other to rely on they did wrote ->-bleeped-<- about me on the walls in the workshop we used for practising and one of them wrote a Finnish slur for a lesbian on my disposable coffee mug at one worksite. They never acted like that when they were alone and were pretty... approriate guys when they didn't have the others around.
That happens a lot in my college course, which is exclusively male. The consensus between everyone not in their group is that they're trying to show off to the others in their group, the younger ones are trying to "prove" themselves to the older ones, and the older ones are acting silly and macho to show that they're not too old to be friends with the younger ones. When they're on their own, as you said, they're entirely different. That said, even people I'm friends with are trying to look better than they are, I think it's just a part of our culture to need attention and be the best. Just remember it's not about you, it's about looking good to their mates.
As for girls, I've not been near any for the best part of a year because of my college course. I can't say that I miss it at all. It's not just a teenage problem, women in general, love to gossip (although I'm kinda shocked at the amount of gossiping which goes on between guys to be honest, some of them are more crabby than the girls I used to know.) You'll get similar things in older women, but maybe just not as blatantly.
Do you know for sure that they were talking about you being trans? Maybe they just thought you were a sweet guy picking up a swimsuit for your girlfriend or something along those lines so they were checking you out.
It's just a thought. I get looks from people sometimes even when I'm not trying to pass and I imagine all the negative things the person could be thinking about me only to have them come up later and compliment me or only to realize that they were just looking around, not really paying any attention to me.
I know how "those girls" and those type of people work too though. It's almost as if they can smell discomfort then they prey on it to hide their inferiority. Anytime I see people like that around, I make it a point not to even pay attention to them so they usually don't bother me or at the very least I walk away with them complaining about what a aloof, cocky jerk I am. :laugh: If you just walk in and own it like that, they won't bother you.
Quote from: Contravene on June 05, 2013, 07:26:06 PM
Do you know for sure that they were talking about you being trans? Maybe they just thought you were a sweet guy picking up a swimsuit for your girlfriend or something along those lines so they were checking you out.
There was something about their look that made me think they were saying something bad, not good. I'm sure that they weren't talking about me being trans, probably just laughing about a 'girl' looking like a boy or something :/
Maybe they were confused as to why a man would be looking at women's swimsuits? Which of course isn't any of their business... but you could just choose to believe that was the case, which would be a somewhat good thing, since you pass (sorry, somehow I feel like I've turned into an optimist recently)
Anyway, people are often rude about things they don't understand... and I'm sorry that this happened.
Should have winked and told them 'even drag queens gotta get to the beach in the summer" or some other ridiculously over the top thing, that's what badass me would have done.
In any case, really don't let it worry you too much. I nearly had a heart attack, kinda related to this, a week ago when I was in the men's bathroom (I paid 8k to have the boobs removed, I look male now and it's my darn right to be able to use the men's room now lol), all was well except for some pee on the seat some nice man had left behind. Did my stuff and then came out to wash my hands. Well I was at a historical site and there was a group of kids on a school trip, just as I came out to wash up three young boys (about 10) came in and one immediately said in a hushed tone "Why is there a lady standing there?" At first I felt myself panic, but then I glanced in the mirror and realized that if the adult man two sinks over wasn't giving me a second look then I must be passing. Turned out there were two ladies standing right outside of the bathroom, which must have been what the kid was yapping about.
In any case I understand, or at least really did for a moment, where you're coming from. It's terrifying and also annoying to be misgendered or judged. But you know what? Screw them. You're never going to see those brats again and they will continue to live their lives and grow up into dysfunctional adults. Not your problem and you're better than them for having this greater level of, not only understanding of gender in our culture but also for having a greater level of acceptance for others and the happiness that comes with that. I guess I was lucky enough to never really experience these people, going from an all girls school (got a bit there but not much, I followed 'those girls' until I finally had enough one day and promptly laid down the line and told them I was done with them) straight into a 'gifted school' (not public school but not private, those accepted either took an IQ test or went through interviews, so everyone was 'selected') where I experienced very little of this behavior, even from those i'd consider 'popular'. The only experience i've had with 'those girls' has really been in the past year with someone who is by far much older than me and IMO, an adult like her should not be allowed to act like one of 'those girls'.
Trust me, from what i've experienced in the last year, people like that will do ANYTHING to find something to gossip about. You just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Had you appeared to them like the male sex idol of the decade, who obviously was buying the suit for someone else they STILL would have found some way to whisper about you. Had you been a young girl or an older lady they STILL would have found something to giggle about to one another because they are seeking it and are desperate for it. Find gratification in the idea that if they do not change their behavior they will, in several years. be taking your order at McDonald's or serving you your latte because they are nothing but sheep.
So chin up, you look good to me and their gossipy opinions are irrelevant.
Apparently guys can be just as obnoxious. I was sitting in a park reading today and two guys skateboarded by. One of them turned around and yelled loudly "What gender are you?" and then both of them laughed and left before I could say anything. Jeeze! People's children's kids these days.
Kids aren't smacked enough now-a-days....
CursedFireDean
This is one of my biggest problems too - i hate it when people are talking about me, i hate to be in the center of attention. And when i dress and look like a guy, there are ALWAYS people who do this - they are talking about me and they are trying to guess my gender. Sometimes i can hear what they are saying and it's sooooo disgusting.
For me, the worst thing is when they think i am a lesbian. Because i am NOT. I am not a lesbian for 2 reasons. First, i don't even like girls! And second, i am a FTM. I am not a girl and i don't like girls. Sometimes i wish i could make a T-shirt like this or something so that they would finally leave me alone.
Quote from: dean1229 on June 07, 2013, 11:50:58 AM
For me, the worst thing is when they think i am a lesbian. Because i am NOT. I am not a lesbian for 2 reasons. First, i don't even like girls! And second, i am a FTM. I am not a girl and i don't like girls. Sometimes i wish i could make a T-shirt like this or something so that they would finally leave me alone.
^ This.
I'm not into girls either, but until T starts to work its magic on me people are going to presume me to be a butch lesbian, particularly in queer spaces. In fact, I've found that people are
more likely to 'madam' me under those circumstances because they presume me to be a militant feminist lesbian (or whatever) who might be expected to take great offense at being addressed as 'sir'.
This makes me feel very uncomfortable. There's nothing at all wrong with being a militant feminist lesbian, but that's not who
I am. Do you know how it feels? It feels
exactly the same as when any other gay guy is asked "So have you found a girlfriend yet?". And for
exactly the same reason.
FTMDiaries
Oh yes... This sounds like the situation i am in. I HATE it when people think i am a lesbian and i HATE it even more when guys think that i am a lesbian! Because i am into guys. I have never been into girls. I think that my own body is disgusting so how could i like a body of another girl?? For me, this is impossible. I have never liked a girl, they are non-existent to me.
I knew i was a guy from a very young age and i wish i could be a man 24/7. But i just don't know what to do... The thing is, i can't have a relationship in this body. My body is too disgusting to me. But if i transition i will only have gay guys to choose from... Which is not that bad but a bit limited in my opinion... So i don't know what to do... :((((
Quote from: dean1229 on June 07, 2013, 03:31:00 PM
FTMDiaries
Oh yes... This sounds like the situation i am in. I HATE it when people think i am a lesbian and i HATE it even more when guys think that i am a lesbian! Because i am into guys. I have never been into girls. I think that my own body is disgusting so how could i like a body of another girl?? For me, this is impossible. I have never liked a girl, they are non-existent to me.
I knew i was a guy from a very young age and i wish i could be a man 24/7. But i just don't know what to do... The thing is, i can't have a relationship in this body. My body is too disgusting to me. But if i transition i will only have gay guys to choose from... Which is not that bad but a bit limited in my opinion... So i don't know what to do... :((((
Ah yes, the gay, pre-T, FtM's big conundrum: straight guys who are interested in you are interested because they want want to take advantage of all the things about you that you detest and want to get rid of. On the other hand, the gay guys that you're interested in don't even notice you because they aren't interested in what you currently have. ::)
As my Gender Therapist pointed out to me recently, there
are some guys who quite like the idea of a guy who has non-standard equipment. Some of them are bisexual; some are just open-minded. But you have to be so,
so careful, because some of those guys might like you for all the wrong reasons.
The only solution, in my humble opinion, is to transition and start dating once you get to a point where your body is more to your (and their!) liking. That time hasn't yet arrived for me, but I'll know it when I see it.
Quote from: FTMDiaries on June 07, 2013, 03:15:06 PM
I'm not into girls either, but until T starts to work its magic on me people are going to presume me to be a butch lesbian, particularly in queer spaces. In fact, I've found that people are more likely to 'madam' me under those circumstances because they presume me to be a militant feminist lesbian (or whatever) who might be expected to take great offense at being addressed as 'sir'.
This will be the most off-topic post on this thread but you mentioned it so I have to ask. I was raised and learned (though it was a while ago) that you are ALWAYS to address a female in the military as "Sir" unless they tell you otherwise, as it shows equality (aka you're not calling them something different just because they are of the female variety of human) and overall more respect (than ma'am). I've often time's even corrected others who might be talking about such things in our day to day conversations, "No it's correct for him to refer to her as Sir." have I been wrong all this time? My partner, whose read every journal and tactical book of war and military that ever existed, agrees with me that Sir is correct regardless of gender (unless otherwise instructed). Sorry to go so off topic but now i'm worried i've been an ass to people in correcting them o_O. Is it proper to refer to a militant female as 'Sir' unless otherwise instructed? Though I don't really understand why "Yes [title]" was never really used, that would clear up any accidental 'sexism' "Yes Colonel!" is much more gender neutral.... aaaanyways.
More related to the current direction of the conversation, i've also experienced the problem of "he likes me but for the wrong reasons..." and I agree the safest way to avoid that is to pass as male with that person (up until the point you tell them of course) because then they are seeing, and becoming attracted to you as a man. I haven't really had this happen, though i haven't really put myself into situations where it would happen.
Quote from: Bastian on June 08, 2013, 01:11:21 AM
This will be the most off-topic post on this thread but you mentioned it so I have to ask. I was raised and learned (though it was a while ago) that you are ALWAYS to address a female in the military as "Sir" unless they tell you otherwise, as it shows equality (aka you're not calling them something different just because they are of the female variety of human) and overall more respect (than ma'am). I've often time's even corrected others who might be talking about such things in our day to day conversations, "No it's correct for him to refer to her as Sir." have I been wrong all this time? My partner, whose read every journal and tactical book of war and military that ever existed, agrees with me that Sir is correct regardless of gender (unless otherwise instructed). Sorry to go so off topic but now i'm worried i've been an ass to people in correcting them o_O. Is it proper to refer to a militant female as 'Sir' unless otherwise instructed? Though I don't really understand why "Yes [title]" was never really used, that would clear up any accidental 'sexism' "Yes Colonel!" is much more gender neutral.... aaaanyways.
More related to the current direction of the conversation, i've also experienced the problem of "he likes me but for the wrong reasons..." and I agree the safest way to avoid that is to pass as male with that person (up until the point you tell them of course) because then they are seeing, and becoming attracted to you as a man. I haven't really had this happen, though i haven't really put myself into situations where it would happen.
I think my "militant lesbian feminists" he was taking about angry serious feminists rather than feminists in the military.
On the off topic topic though, here in the UK I was always told to use "yes [title]" up until sergeant (which was shortened to sarnt). Anything above colour sergeant was sir or ma'am, some places call colour sergeants "colour" though. I could be wrong, it's a long while since I called anyone anything.
QuoteAh yes, the gay, pre-T, FtM's big conundrum: straight guys who are interested in you are interested because they want want to take advantage of all the things about you that you detest and want to get rid of. On the other hand, the gay guys that you're interested in don't even notice you because they aren't interested in what you currently have.
Wow, that pretty much summarizes my thoughts about this issue and is the reason I have been single all my life, even though I am 26 years old. Well said. And about the gay guys who are cool about my current equipment...I still wouldn't be able to do anything with them because I am not cool with my equipment. I guess in a way, I will be pretty much a-sexual in actions (not in thoughts...Oh nooo) until the downstairs issue gets fixed. And finding a guy who is cool with that is an even bigger issue :P
Quote from: AlexanderC on June 08, 2013, 06:25:46 AM
I think my "militant lesbian feminists" he was taking about angry serious feminists rather than feminists in the military.
Yes, that is what I meant: pretty much an activist with strong political views, and how they would react negatively to being addressed as 'Sir' in everyday civilian encounters such as in banks, shops etc.
But it was fascinating to learn that 'Sir' is used in certain military circles for both genders. As Alexander says, I don't believe this is traditional in the UK, so perhaps it's a North American thing? I do know that South African usage is similar to British usage: it's 'yes [rank]' up to certain ranks.
So.... what was our topic here again? ;)
Quote from: Mr.X on June 08, 2013, 06:38:37 AM
And about the gay guys who are cool about my current equipment...I still wouldn't be able to do anything with them because I am not cool with my equipment. I guess in a way, I will be pretty much a-sexual in actions (not in thoughts...Oh nooo) until the downstairs issue gets fixed. And finding a guy who is cool with that is an even bigger issue :P
This is something that has been foremost in my mind lately, because I went into denial when I was 19 and decided to try to live my life as a 'female' but I was so uncomfortable with my body that I didn't have my first sexual encounter until I was 23.
I've been married to a straight guy for 16 years now but the only way I could get through intimacy was via fantasy. When I reached crisis point last year and realised I had no choice but to transition, I'd realised that intimacy had become increasingly disturbing for me over the years, particularly because he's so fond of the chest area.
So no more intimacy for me until I can find a guy who doesn't obsess over my chest. ;)
I've had the experience, twice recently, of being in a social situation and overhearing an acquaintance recount an anecdote that led me to believe they'd acted in a similar way as the two girls the OP dealt with. In both situations I was able to pretty much make the speaker feel like an ass, but it was sort of shocker and a little exhausting to have to deal with in the uber-liberal, "accepting" (ugh) crowds I was hanging around. I know it's ignorance, yadda yadda yadda, but still, it definitely make me think the worst about someone to think that they need to make others feel smaller than they must.