I've been wondering for awhile what would happen if a cis male or cis female took hormones of the opposite sex, like obviously we know what the physical effects would be but what about the mental effects?
I know HRT is a treatment for prostate cancer in cis men, it must induce dysphoria for them with the side effects :(
as far as cis people doing it for experimentation, which I have heard of I think it causes some instability.
I Know for me I was made emotionally into who I was supposed to be, so for them I I am thinking it should be hard as it opposes them emotionally
One of our former members, Tigger, has undergone treatment for prostate cancer. And I can tell you, he is not in the best state right now. He doesn't see himself as much of a male anymore and its killing him. Of course he and I have parted ways, so I cant tell you any more than that. But yea. HRT for a Cis-gendered person would potentially crush them and ruin their lives in the same way it helps us to make our lives better. I feel so bad for Tigger.
OMG that sounds horrible. I can't imagine how destructive it would be to that person.
Basically... it is making a cisperson feel like a transperson BEFORE he/she got HRT
It's something I would never wish to happen to anyone.
And how about bigender/genderqueer/genderfluid people? Will they just 'adapt' to their 'new' gender, be happier, maybe, or also experience 'dysphoria' like feelings?
Quote from: Erik Ezrin on June 12, 2013, 01:50:49 AM
Basically... it is making a cisperson feel like a transperson BEFORE he/she got HRT.
Wait i'm confused so your trying to say if a cismale took estrogen he would feel like a trans woman before hrt? ???
Also do you have a creditable source to back up this claim? I'm asking because I have anecdotal evidence that suggests otherwise yet I can't find any hard evidence to support it or refute it. I knew a few drag queens who did not feel they were trans or anything like that and took hrt to make their bodys more feminine and it made them moody but that's about it. I also knew a crossdresser who wasn't trans and took estrogen for a few months and felt fine minus a little depression but that's a commen side effect for sythetic estrogens.
Quote from: PoisonEnvy on June 12, 2013, 02:41:24 AM
Wait i'm confused so your trying to say if a cismale took estrogen he would feel like a trans woman before hrt? ???
I believe Erik intends to mean the opposite i.e. if a cismale took estrogen he would feel like a transman before hypothetical HRT.
I know of cismen having prostatecancer treated with crossex hormones, but females having ovarian etc cancer treated with crossex hormones/testosteron?
Haven't heard about that so far....
A cisfriend of mine suffered from breastcancer and was treated with an 'oestrogen annihilating hormone' -not testosterone- and had terrible depressions as a side effect.
I know of cismen feminizing on crossex hormones to treat prostatecancer and suffered terribly but I think ciswomen being treated with crossex hormones to treat ovarian/breastcancer etc....that would make them go bald, develop facial hairgrowth etc.
Quote from: Erik Ezrin on June 12, 2013, 01:50:49 AM
Basically... it is making a cisperson feel like a transperson BEFORE he/she got HRT
It's something I would never wish to happen to anyone.
And how about bigender/genderqueer/genderfluid people? Will they just 'adapt' to their 'new' gender, be happier, maybe, or also experience 'dysphoria' like feelings?
Erik, you bring up an interesting point about those of us who are non-binary, be it bi-gendered, genderfluid, pan-gendered, or whatever. HRT for many of us becomes a way to "quiet the noise" of dysphoria, without necessarily trying to effect radical physical changes.
Quote from: Dahlia on June 12, 2013, 02:55:04 AM
I know of cismen having prostatecancer treated with crossex hormones, but females having ovarian etc cancer treated with crossex hormones/testosteron?
Haven't heard about that so far....
A cisfriend of mine suffered from breastcancer and was treated with an 'oestrogen annihilating hormone' -not testosterone- and had terrible depressions as a side effect.
I know of cismen feminizing on crossex hormones to treat prostatecancer and suffered terribly but I think ciswomen being treated with crossex hormones to treat ovarian/breastcancer etc....that would make them go bald, develop facial hairgrowth etc.
Well from my understanding for men with prostate cancer they ususally don't use estrogen because of the sides effects and use LHRH blockers instead. The sudden lose of testosterone without another sex hormone is known to cause depression in cis people and trans people too. When they do use estrogen it's sythetic estrogen which can cause depression & anxiety as a side effect, this happens to cis women post menopause taking estrogen as well as trans women taking hrt.
I guarantee the psychological effects would be horrific for a cis person if that was the case. I have a cis female friend who has been having gynecological problems and her doctors suggested she try a low dose T cream to apply to her genitalia. She has been a friend of mine since High School so obviously she knows I'm trans and she approached me about the issue. She's embarrassed to speak to anyone else about it and is torn on what she should do.
All I could do is tell her that she really needs to discuss with her doctor what (if any) secondary sex characteristics she could develop and express her concerns. When I was talking to her I could really sense how fragile the gender identity of cis individuals is as well.
Quote from: PoisonEnvy on June 12, 2013, 03:10:51 AM
Well from my understanding for men with prostate cancer they ususally don't use estrogen because of the sides effects and use LHRH blockers instead. The sudden lose of testosterone without another sex hormone is known to cause depression in cis people and trans people too.
I watched my father struggle for over 10yrs with prostrate cancer and the taking of estrogen treatment and blockers /something we shared together/ made him much more emotional and reflective (ie: unrestained crying) but overall wasn't a bad thing in comparison to the other HORRIFIC procedures the doctors experimented & performed upon him.
I adjusted my meds accordingly due to his better routine but for a healthy cis male I'm sure
the protential loss of libido would be the greatest source of stress and complaint. ALL Older Men could effectively greatly increase their chances of avoiding prostrate cancer altogether but for this one great issue (and they wind up taking Viagra instead?)
Being high risk for this cancer my "ex" constantly complains about my lack of interest in her sexually which just goes to show, when it comes to their own 'needs', how selfish & uncaring some women really can be.
Angelina Jolie removing her breasts is rather extreme!! I dislike doctors with a passion, would never consult one unless desperate, staying HEALTHY thru prevention and good habits is definitely the better way to go!
Quote from: Jamie D on June 12, 2013, 03:04:57 AM
Erik, you bring up an interesting point about those of us who are non-binary, be it bi-gendered, genderfluid, pan-gendered, or whatever. HRT for many of us becomes a way to "quiet the noise" of dysphoria, without necessarily trying to effect radical physical changes.
I had some doubts whether I was truly MtF, because there is some masculine side in me which, I think will remain with me, and which I would not wish to give away. After I started the HRT, those doubts have gone away, adding that inner calmness, raising self-awareness of my femininity, as well as reducing my fears, because nobody is 100% feminine or masculine, and pursuing certain non-feminine activities does not make You less of a woman. You either are one, or You are not, the rest does not matter. Those, thinking otherwise are entitled to their own opinions but as far as their opinion affects me... well, they should better mind their own business :).
Quote from: Sammy on June 12, 2013, 07:40:35 AM
I had some doubts whether I was truly MtF, because there is some masculine side in me which, I think will remain with me, and which I would not wish to give away.
I know a large number of transwomen who would say this. If you live decades in a particular role, you're likely to pick up some of it.
Certainly true for me.
I'd imagine that E for a cis man would be disastrous, at least based on my own experiences with the men that I know. None of them show any emotions in public and to uncontrollably do so would threaten their ability to present as men in their opinions. And not being able to perform? Yikes.
Still, the more I read this thread, the more I see that I NEED to get on it. All these things that would freak out the men that I know are things that I really need. Decreased libido? Heck yeah I'll take two. And knowing that I am trans, I had thought about whether E would sort of calm the noise in my head that is always there to cast doubt and now I see that someone else commented in the same way. My shame in dressing is gone, but I still feel like I'm not transition ready, so I was looking at HRT as more of a stepping stone while I prepare.
Seeing as human history is not always a pretty place, there is not necessarily a need to wonder too much about what could happen in terms of mental effects. Probably one of the most famous examples was Alan Turing. Back then homosexuality was still considered a crime, and the punishments were ... well ... quoting from the Wikipedia article:
QuoteTuring was convicted, and given a choice between imprisonment or probation conditional on his agreement to undergo hormonal treatment designed to reduce libido. He accepted the option of treatment via injections of stilboestrol, a synthetic oestrogen; this treatment was continued for the course of one year.
One year later Turing committed suicide.
Quote from: Theo on June 12, 2013, 04:13:24 PM
Seeing as human history is not always a pretty place, there is not necessarily a need to wonder too much about what could happen in terms of mental effects. Probably one of the most famous examples was Alan Turing. Back then homosexuality was still considered a crime, and the punishments were ... well ... quoting from the Wikipedia article:
One year later Turing committed suicide.
That's not enough evidence to suggest estrogen is why he killed himself. Seems more likely the main reason was because he was not allowed to be gay that drove him to suicide not the estrogen it's self, although the kinds of estrogen they used on him back in those days and the amount they gave him might have certainly played a factor.
Quote from: Kiera on June 12, 2013, 07:11:24 AM
I watched my father struggle for over 10yrs with prostrate cancer and the taking of estrogen treatment and blockers /something we shared together/ made him much more emotional and reflective (ie: unrestained crying) but overall wasn't a bad thing in comparison to the other HORRIFIC procedures the doctors experimented & performed upon him.
I adjusted my meds accordingly due to his better routine but for a healthy cis male I'm sure the protential loss of libido would be the greatest source of stress and complaint. ALL Older Men could effectively greatly increase their chances of avoiding prostrate cancer altogether but for this one great issue (and they wind up taking Viagra instead?)
Being high risk for this cancer my "ex" constantly complains about my lack of interest in her sexually which just goes to show, when it comes to their own 'needs', how selfish & uncaring some women really can be.
Angelina Jolie removing her breasts is rather extreme!! I dislike doctors with a passion, would never consult one unless desperate, staying HEALTHY thru prevention and good habits is definitely the better way to go!
I think her choice is quite valid, my grandmother died of breast cancer at the same age as I am right now, her mother and grandmother also had it, she has the genes, she is worried
My last mammogram came back with a problem and I had to go back for a second test and I can tell you I was frightened out of my wits until the sonogram came back clean
Hi,
One needs to know the background of the person, type of meds one is takeing dose rate how many different types, what reactions can take place & if the person is on other meds or has been if drink is included ,
with out a blood count & base rate to work off there could be a number of issues to start with & not every one can take the same meds, each one is different in thier body makeup.
I can name a few health issues that would compound very quckly so with out supervision its not worth it, after being around meds for 39 years iv seen some major health issues with in a very short time, now the mental side seen that as well.
...noeleena...
Quote from: Theo on June 12, 2013, 04:13:24 PM
Seeing as human history is not always a pretty place, there is not necessarily a need to wonder too much about what could happen in terms of mental effects. Probably one of the most famous examples was Alan Turing. Back then homosexuality was still considered a crime, and the punishments were ... well ... quoting from the Wikipedia article:
One year later Turing committed suicide.
And they did this to the person who cracked the Enigma machine...
Facepalm.