persona
Fakeness... I think, no, its not fake. Overcompensating - definitely. If You longed for something all Your conscious life and were expressly denied it on all levels due to some characteristics, which have been assigned to You by birth and which You could not change or challenge and then - SUDDENLY - it all does not matter anymore and You can be Yourself, express Yourself as You feel to be appropriate, smile from Your heart... Would not You grab at this opportunity with both hands, using it and sometimes even abusing? :) Initially, it could be quantity over quality, but as we all grow older and more knowledgeable, the quality shall prevail :). Just my humble opinion :)
Honestly, I've been thinking there seems to be a bit of this here, moreso of late. I feel some of it is from trying to justify what they are doing to themselves, some from insecurities and the rest just because humans tend to do some of that in any social situation whether they are trans, cis or whatever.
I immediately hate anything I write that is more than three sentences long because I feel like I used that many words because I either don't know wtf I'm talking about or I'm putting on airs. So yeah, I see it a lot, in my own posts. At least fakeness and sounding narrated, idk abt advice stuff or validating myslef or whatever. Probably those too faik.
Quote from: Jen on July 02, 2013, 04:36:29 PM
I immediately hate anything I write that is more than three sentences long because I feel like I used that many words because I either don't know wtf I'm talking about or I'm putting on airs. So yeah, I see it a lot, in my own posts. At least fakeness and sounding narrated, idk abt advice stuff or validating myself or whatever. Probably those too faik.
LOL Four sentences! But I don't hate it.
But to the OP
Maybe I am the worst offender. I don't lie to people, but I try to see the best in them. I believe everybody, with the will, the dedication, and the patience, can make improvements in themselves. Yeah, call me "Pollyanna."
Quote from: iiii on July 02, 2013, 04:50:27 PM
People need constructive criticism to better themselves... Otherwise it's just encouraging people to stay at where they are. Congratulating people on their progress is another thing though.
Constructive is the operative term, here. We get so much criticism of the other kinds that we tend to overcompensate here.
I'm prolly guilty of it to some degree, being fake or tailoring my history or maybe trying to appear more femme then I am when giving advice. A lot of it is prolly justification or reassurance to myself and just writing the words down makes me feel better? IDK sometimes I think I'm just gay and I should accept that. I even had a dream where a past gay lover came to me and was like "why are you doing this?". You need to accept yourself. But then again maybe not because my hypocrisy only goes so far.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 02, 2013, 04:59:39 PM
IDK sometimes I think I'm just gay and I should accept that.
Joanna I have that thought quite often actually I kinda wish I was as my mom calls it a normal gay. It would be so much easier and cheaper but unfortunately I'm not so its the hard road for me. :-\
I think that many of us are really honest and trying to offer helpful critiques and uplifting advice and comments including TLC to many others who we all know live a socially isolated existence due to real and imaginary fears. I know for certain that many of us enjoy vicariously entering into the celebration of others who have experienced incredibly stunning transitions the likes of which most won't experience. What I find objectionable in a support forum is when someone continuously creates drama by making disparaging remarks to others concerning things that they have limited or no knowledge about due to limited real life experience, it undermines the intent of support and concern for others and only serves to create more pain.
Quote from: Shantel on July 02, 2013, 05:36:40 PM
I think that many of us are really honest and trying to offer helpful critiques and uplifting advice and comments including TLC to many others who we all know live a socially isolated existence due to real and imaginary fears. I know for certain that many of us enjoy vicariously entering into the celebration of others who have experienced incredibly stunning transitions the likes of which most won't experience. What I find objectionable in a support forum is when someone continuously creates drama by making disparaging remarks to others concerning things that they have limited or no knowledge about due to limited real life experience, it undermines the intent of support and concern for others and only serves to create more pain.
I'm with Shan, I see people supporting each other. Can't imagine why that looks like fakeness to you. Hugs, Devlyn
Well this is the Internet. There's going to be a certain amount of fakeness, right? I've come across a few whoppers on these boards.
But there's also an amazing amount of love, knowledge, and wisdom to be found here, well worth reading past the occasional tall tale.
I have had this discussion with a friend on a few occasions. He is transgender and he has complained about it more than I have. I try to stay out of these discussions because I am cisgendered but I can tell you that he has brought it up so you are not the only one.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on July 02, 2013, 05:41:02 PM
I'm with Shan, I see people supporting each other. Can't imagine why that looks like fakeness to you. Hugs, Devlyn
I could be wrong, but I don't think the OP is talking about honest/blunt criticism here, but more she is feeling a general phoniness that people seem to have sometimes? I don't want to put words in her mouth...
I wonder if it's more the awkwardness of growing into a new role in life that is being noticed than people acting fake?
Quote from: Shantel on July 02, 2013, 05:36:40 PM
I think that many of us are really honest and trying to offer helpful critiques and uplifting advice and comments including TLC to many others who we all know live a socially isolated existence due to real and imaginary fears. I know for certain that many of us enjoy vicariously entering into the celebration of others who have experienced incredibly stunning transitions the likes of which most won't experience. What I find objectionable in a support forum is when someone continuously creates drama by making disparaging remarks to others concerning things that they have limited or no knowledge about due to limited real life experience, it undermines the intent of support and concern for others and only serves to create more pain.
Shantel how do you always have the right thing to say?
When dealing with people's experiences you can never really know how "real" it is but suffice it to say I hardly ever see much reason to believe that their experience isn't real.
@Jen
Quote from: so over you on July 02, 2013, 03:51:58 PM
Sorry if this is touchy but ...
Do you feel like there is a lot of fakeness/wishful thinking/overcompensating in the trans community?
I feel like, for example, in advice threads, a lot of people, rather than actually trying to give advice are trying to validate themselves or their insider girl knowledge or something.
Sometimes I feel like a lot of the things people say in the trans community just sound so... narrated? Not that I don't understand being insecure... I have probably been guilty of it on at least a few occasions too...
Anyway, I'm really sorry if this is taken as offensive, I'm not trying to be, I'm just wondering what everyone thinks about this? Thanks :)
I'm not a doctor, but it seems obvious the O/P just sees herself reflected in others.
I think learning is a process with stages and this is just one of them, actually an advanced stage. I often see people acting like an expert on a subject and trying to teach people about it, when they really are more like almost-experts. I would call it the fake it till you make it stage, which I actually think is the stage right before actually mastering the subj—after which they won't be bothered talking about it lol.
You will never see somebody do this unless they care deeply about the topic and are trying to have mastery over it. That is kind of what I meant by awkwardness of learning a new role. I know it seems annoying, but just have patience with peeps as they figure this all out :).
Quoterather than misrepresenting life or past experience etc,
Not quite sure I get what you mean regarding support - but I do have this thing where I almost cringe reading 'trans childhood narratives' and such. Because it often comes off like someone saying because they cried as a little boy or weren't a total jerk that that has something to do with being trans. IE. having any human emotions or sensitivity = female. And it actually makes the writer come off as having a more masculine viewpoint - 'I wasn't a total neanderthal, so I must be a girl'. There are some similar ftms ones too - but that's usually referencing typical tomboy activities more common than not in cis girls. Few girly girls out there these days. It just seems like everyone's trotting out anything possible as reasons why they're trans when you find the same behaviors in most cis kids.
Not that they're misrepresenting their life per se, just ascribing meaning to it rife with stereotypes. I probably did it somewhat myself when I first came out, but it irks me. I've yet to read any trans history or life story that a ton of cis kids of the same bio sex don't also fit. With the possible exception of trans kids claiming to be the other sex. But I've heard gay men and women claim they did this as well.
Anyway, this whole trans narrative thing was pushed on us by the medical community so I don't blame anyone. Things were set up so we have to sort of prove we were always really male or female. When there's really no way to do that.
Hope that wasn't totally off topic.
QuoteActually, how I notice it mainly in the FTM community is like ways of speaking/ways of addressing people rather than misrepresenting life or past experience etc, like perfectly intelligent guys trying to sound a little more rough and so maybe intentionally avoiding sounding articulate. Also a lot of dude/man where it maybe feels more intentional than natural, but that one I can understand, like, feeling more able to relate to people in that way and wanting to more as a result?
It does seem like there's a bit more dudeing/bro-ing than normal. But I think some guys do it because it can feel validating to the new guys still getting addressed as female in RL.
Oddly, I went through a period of trying to sound more formal when I first came out. I notice this sort of 'gentlemenly trend' with some newly out guys. Anyway, I probably spoke a lot rougher before coming out, curse a lot less now - though that has a lot more to do with lifestyle at the time than transition.
Quote from: Fitter Admin on July 02, 2013, 08:09:47 PM
Anyway, this whole trans narrative thing was pushed on us by the medical community so I don't blame anyone. Things were set up so we have to sort of prove we were always really male or female. When there's really no way to do that.
Hope that wasn't totally off topic.
It does seem like there's a bit more dudeing/bro-ing than normal. But I think some guys do it because it can feel validating to the new guys still getting addressed as female in RL.
Oddly, I went through a period of trying to sound more formal when I first came out. I notice this sort of 'gentlemenly trend' with some newly out guys. Anyway, I probably spoke a lot rougher before coming out, curse a lot less now - though that has a lot more to do with lifestyle at the time than transition.
One thing I know for sure is after going a certain ways down the transition road I started getting strong congnitive dissonce looking back at my old self and that whole foreign persona being attached to me. I had, and still have really, a really hard time reconciling that and it is hard to not adjust the narrative of my past so it matches my present, so they share the same trajectory kind of. Because if I don't, I am stuck with that dissonance that is really uncomfortable. I don't put total blame on the medical community, though they push it too.
I think we all go through various phases as we learn and grow during our individual journeys... At times we seek support and comfort and also in turn lend support and comfort to others
I believe most people are looking for 'All the right answers' but truly it is impossible for any one individual to obtain such a thing, that is why we form communities such as ours so we can discuss and find the answers together
It is important to give honest constructive advise and it is possible to give that advise without hurting another's feelings
The best advise I can give at this point is to be yourself and do people a solid in a kind and supportive manner
Those are my thoughts on the subject for now
Thank you
V M
Quote from: Fitter Admin on July 02, 2013, 08:09:47 PMIt does seem like there's a bit more dudeing/bro-ing than normal. But I think some guys do it because it can feel validating to the new guys still getting addressed as female in RL.
Might be for fun too. I know I find it fun to say, but that might just be me. Anyway, a cis friend (sort of) of mine repeatedly calls me "dude" to remind himself I'm a guy. It comes across as totally fake, but that may have to do with other behaviours. I'm rambling sorry.
The perceived "fakeness" or "overcompensating" may actually be exploring. I read a lot of people who pretended to be someone else before they came out. Maybe they're experimenting and figuring out how they like to present themselves. Am I making any sense?
Like FA, the stereotyping bugs me too though.
I can say I never fabricated my history to appear more girlie
As most know..I never had the greatest life as a girl...
And I am upfront about it..
And some of is do have years and years of living as a woman...
Some want advice...how?? You get a bra fitted the old fashioned
Way...with a measure...not word of mouth..
Some of us also are naturally feminine...not all...but does the
Clothes or the make up make the woman?
Does a woman who's been shelterd and very unwordly any
Less of a woman...cos she has no idea what the rest of the
World is?? She might scoff at the advice of a prostitute...
Which is still a valid woman
Do see where I am going ??
After an entire day of being stuck in "guy mode," where it feels like not a single damned person can see the girl that's inside of me, I need to act a little extra-girly online in order to feel like my gender identity is validated. It makes me feel better. And if that comes across as a little fake, I don't mind. It's theraputic.
I'm sure I'll settle down once I'm a bit further in transition, when I can actually find a balance in real life, but for now I need that release, and that probably means taking things a bit too far. But I'm fine with that. I need it. It's like releasing all of the pent-up femininity that I've been forced to keep locked away all day.
I just give my opinions as I see it -take or live it >:-)
or I share my extensive knowledge as a service to the community :angel:
Sometimes I can over react when certain buttons are push ::)
For being an alpha bitch I made no apologies... >:-)
Quote from: peky on July 03, 2013, 12:15:45 AM
I just give my opinions as I see it -take or live it >:-)
or I share my extensive knowledge as a service to the community :angel:
Sometimes I can over react when certain buttons are push ::)
For being an alpha bitch I made no apologies... >:-)
I LOLed!!!
And what made you an alpha bitch?
I play with language, I play with my experiences, with my history. I want the things I write to have a weight to them. To crunch into you with physicality, to grab you and shake you. I say things because they might fascinate, they might be beautiful, they might be true. I write because I'm looking for something. Or maybe just because I'm bored.
Sometimes I try on personalities like so many hats. Sweet, broken, charming, brutal, helpful, arrogant. . . I'm sure they all seemed like a good idea at the time. Sometimes I'm hurting and I want to puke up all the badness, all the ugliness, here, so I don't carry it with me all day. Here is a place I'm allowed to bleed and people can only watch, can't touch. Sometimes I'm just hunting for pretty words, and the meaning is of little import.
Occasionally I'll even be direct, but I prefer a sparkle or two of pixie dust, and a dash of brimstone, with my stories. They certainly aren't untrue, but they are heightened, focused, targeted. I write with intention, with flair. For fun and profit. Well, for fun anyway.
Why would I want to be dull?
I always have (and will) loved how you write Sarah! It really is amazing :)
I'm not too fond of 'fake', mostly because I spent most of my life being fake..
Like my Grand Ma used to say..."Fake it until you make it" :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: so over you on July 02, 2013, 03:51:58 PM
Sorry if this is touchy but ...
Do you feel like there is a lot of fakeness/wishful thinking/overcompensating in the trans community?
I feel like, for example, in advice threads, a lot of people, rather than actually trying to give advice are trying to validate themselves or their insider girl knowledge or something.
Sometimes I feel like a lot of the things people say in the trans community just sound so... narrated? Not that I don't understand being insecure... I have probably been guilty of it on at least a few occasions too...
Anyway, I'm really sorry if this is taken as offensive, I'm not trying to be, I'm just wondering what everyone thinks about this? Thanks :)
YES!!
I can't speak for others but I can tell you I am a straight up hit you in the mouth kind of girl. I convey the same message online and I'm the exact same in real life. Anyone that knows me outside of the internet will tell you the same thing. Real people stay real; while fake people remain fake. Guess that is the little ghetto girl in me.
Quote from: so over you on July 02, 2013, 06:51:11 PM
I don't know... I just wish people would be real.
If that is how they are being, then that is them. Really! lol.
Shan is always right ;-)
I'm not fake,I'm the same in real life a Lancashire girl in her mid 50s who swears too much!There's a lot less fakeness here than on many English sites where it seems it's really a site for anyone who wants to get in your pants than anything else
Quote from: Akira21 ♡♡♡ on July 03, 2013, 03:11:44 PM
If that is how they are being, then that is them. Really! lol.
Shan is always right ;-)
Got you convinced don't I sweetie? :D ;D :laugh:
Quote from: Serena Lynn on July 03, 2013, 02:55:56 PM
I can't speak for others but I can tell you I am a straight up hit you in the mouth kind of girl. I convey the same message online and I'm the exact same in real life. Anyone that knows me outside of the internet will tell you the same thing. Real people stay real; while fake people remain fake. Guess that is the little ghetto girl in me.
Oh Serena I love that you keep it real ghetto style. Makes me wanna high five you and give you a hug
Quote from: Tristan on July 03, 2013, 04:11:14 PM
Oh Serena I love that you keep it real ghetto style. Makes me wanna high five you and give you a hug
lmfao makes me sound like a hood rat. lol... I just see no reason for people to put on fronts it one of my pet peeves.
Quote from: so over you on July 02, 2013, 03:51:58 PM
I feel like, for example, in advice threads, a lot of people, rather than actually trying to give advice are trying to validate themselves or their insider girl knowledge or something.
On revisiting this topic I have to admit in all fairness to the OP that I am sure that we see some of this, we are all human beings and there is always an underlying desire for validation in the community by everyone. However giving advice is something that people who have been through the hoops do for the sake of others do to help smooth out the rocky road that they themselves have already traveled. Behind every good motive there occasionally lurks an ulterior motive and oftentimes we don't even realize that ourselves. Ie. We do something nice for someone else, commendable on the face of it, but the ulterior motive is that it makes us feel good about ourselves and we get recognition and praise from others as a result. We donate a million dollars to a charitable organization, ulterior motive is that it's a tax write off and once again we get recognition and praise from others.
Quote from: Serena Lynn on July 03, 2013, 06:06:21 PM
lmfao makes me sound like a hood rat. lol... I just see no reason for people to put on fronts it one of my pet peeves.
not that much of a hood rat. but it does let me know to bring you to my next bar fight ;)
There is no fake being a woman inside 100% & having to contend with a "male" body & all the efforts required to change & improve that type body.
Quote from: Bardoux on July 03, 2013, 03:50:15 PM
B2M2 what?
So, the question was "what makes me an alpha bitch"
B2M2 stands for
BRAINS
BEAUTY
MUSCLES, and
MONEY
>:-) :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
BTW While I was blessed to be born with wonderful genes..I worked hard to enhance and augment what mother nature provided me with...as far as the moneys, all earned through hard and honest work.
Quote from: peky on July 04, 2013, 11:32:40 AM
So, the question was "what makes me an alpha bitch"
B2M2 stands for
BRAINS
BEAUTY
MUSCLES, and
MONEY
>:-) :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
BTW While I was blessed to be born with wonderful genes..I worked hard to enhance and augment what mother nature provided me with...as far as the moneys, all earned through hard and honest work.
I love this saying. If your ever in north FloridA email me and we will go all crazy fun time
"Fake" depends on one's perspective, and imho tells more about the person saying it than the person being told it...
Not saying an accusation of fakeness is rude or anything, but "fake" to someone living in a ghetto is one thing, "fake" to someone in the "1%" is another. It's just an observation about a perceived behavior.
We all have false faces to one degree or another...common courtesy dictates discretion at times, boldness at others. And yes, there are things that are well-known, and after typing the same response to the same question asked by 500 people, it may lack some spontaneity and authentism.
The only thing I consider is if the statement (whether written or spoken) is true and accurate.
Quote from: Shantel on July 03, 2013, 06:42:34 PM
We do something nice for someone else, commendable on the face of it, but the ulterior motive is that it makes us feel good about ourselves...
the rewards of altruism....the good of the "collective"...
You are inspired today Sis...Happy 4th of July!
I will be toasting you with a shot of my best Kentucky bourbon
Quote from: Tristan on July 04, 2013, 11:36:04 AM
I love this saying. If your ever in north FloridA email me and we will go all crazy fun time
I get to go to the "Red Neck Riviera" every now and then...business you know..so sure I will keep you in mind...
Quote from: peky on July 04, 2013, 11:42:14 AM
the rewards of altruism....the good of the "collective"...
You are inspired today Sis...Happy 4th of July!
I will be toasting you with a shot of my best Kentucky bourbon
Thanks Pecky! I'll probably take a nap cause the local yo-yo's kept me awake these last two nights blowing off things that was reminiscent of incoming mortar and artillery fire which is illegal here and is only tolerated on the 4th. The cops do nothing even though it warrants a disturbing the peace citation. They only make an arrest if it's some kind of nanny state thing like a domestic violence arguement. Meanwhile I'll be knocking out my dog with doggie drugs so he won't run around all night panting and drooling all over the place. Meanwhile most of the dorks setting off the fireworks think the 4th is about fireworks, the concept of Independence Day goes right over their heads. I'll probably knock down some "Indian Kickapoo Joy Juice" here and give you an assenting nod as well girlfriend!
I have to say I have noticed the complete opposite. Look at the personalities on the site. We are all so different. Even without knowing everyone in person, I have a good sense of the character of most who post here. It's seen in the way we write, in our shared stories, in our differences, our demeanour, etc. I have not detected anything that is considered fake. On the contrary, I have noticed a group of people with distinguished personalities who happen to share at least one thing in common. I have encountered people who are different from myself, but that doesn't mean that they have fabricated anything. Perhaps their experience, views, interests or different from mine. Who am I to judge someone as fake for that reason?
On the issue of validating oneself while giving advice, I think you may be misinterpreting what you have read. A lot of times people try to give advice by sharing their own experience. It's not trying to validate oneself instead of trying to help people in the best way they know how. At least, that's the only motive I've ever had about sharing my own stories and feelings when giving advice. At the end of the day, I think many of us are being real and sharing intimate details that are far from fake. I make no bones about who I am and don't care if I am not the model image of what being trans should be. The point of transitioning is for me to be who I am and live the way I want. It's not to fit into an image of what I think being female is or what other's expect from a trans girl. I break the mold in many ways, and I'm glad for that fact. I am me. And everyone else here is themselves. If you or anyone feels the need to fake or distort their thoughts, it's time for you to be true for your own sake. That's the only person's whose opinion who matters at the end of the day.
Quote from: learningtolive on July 04, 2013, 12:17:50 PM
I have to say I have noticed the complete opposite. Look at the personalities on the site. We are all so different. Even without knowing everyone in person, I have a good sense of the character of most who post here. It's seen in the way we write, in our shared stories, in our differences, our demeanour, etc. I have not detected anything that is considered fake. On the contrary, I have noticed a group of people with distinguished personalities who happen to share at least one thing in common. I have encountered people who are different from myself, but that doesn't mean that they have fabricated anything. Perhaps their experience, views, interests or different from mine. Who am I to judge someone as fake for that reason?
One of the first things I learned when I started meeting other trans people in person was we are all different and while we may have something's in common how we got to the point were all at is different. I thought we would all be similar backgrounds but that was far from the case. Personally I don't believe I need to validate myself sure it may be nice to hear someone say yeah I did the same thing but really it's not really needed.
As for my writing style I really type how I'm feeling at that particular moment. If I'm happy it's reflected in the way I post but if I'm sad it comes out in my post. If I'm having doubts it comes out in my posts. The whole point is I suck at masking how I'm really feeling! I like most people I suspect have multiple sides that change based on the situation I'm in. I'm not the same person at work that I am off work. At work I like to show my confidence I know what I'm doing and that I'm someone who can be depended on to be a hard worker and I will always do my best. But off work I'm completely laid back easy going and not that serious which is how I really feel I am but that's not to say the person I am at work is me because I'm the same person just in a different situation. ;)